[Mono-list] OSX XSP - thankyou
Hi, Didnt see it in the release notes - but a big thankyou to whoever made the changes that allowed XSP (1.0.6) to run on OSX with mono 1.1.6, nant is also working and nunit seems to be working from first appearances. Quite a few happy developers overe here :) Cheers, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Re: Suggestions
Robert Jordan wrote: I know there is a bug open about it, i know there is a control panel work around. But really, ASP.Net development with mono is completely unuseable for real world situations on any platform. This is despite the fact that most of it is pretty much there waiting to be used. I don't agree with this point. ... Serious development implies a staging/development server, so I simply don't care whether I have to restart Apache or not: it's just a script that gets called after a sucessful build. There are 3 issues: 1) In a large virtual host environment - this situation is not workable from a support side of things (see the mono forge forums as an example http://monoforge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=60) 2) Not all programmers are sys admins. Not all sysadmins coming to mono are familiar with linux (which is currently the only way to do ASP.Net). I'm hardly a computer newbie, but getting a system up and running with mono has taken a lot longer than is needed due to the fact that i have needed to learn a new operating system, new installation method, new web server, Mono installation and configuration (thats fine) on a system that to be fair not all people will find as user friendly as their current operating system. Suggesting that they just whip up a script to restart the server is not going to work for everyone. 3) What is wrong with just saying under the ASP.Net section of the website works on linux, requires apache restart for reloading dll's. The curious dont get annoyed when they download and set everything up only to find this issue which that have to search the web to find out about. The comfortable know exactly what needs to be done and can handle it. The - im waiting for a drop in replacement people dont waste their time. The effect overall atm is that people who are comfy with .Net, apache and linux will have no problems doing asp.net development with Mono. But how large a segment of the industry do you think that is compared to people who know .Net and IIS and want to try out Mono ? Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Re: Suggestions
I know there is a bug open about it, i know there is a control panel work around. But really, ASP.Net development with mono is completely unuseable for real world situations on any platform. This is despite the fact that most of it is pretty much there waiting to be used. I use XSP in real world situations on Linux, and I find that it's hardly more of a hastle than IIS. Okay - but are you a .Net developer from windows with little to no experience of linux ?? If so, how long did it take you to arrive at a solution for restarting the server compared to how long it took you to start developing with IIS ?? I may have this completely wrong, the biggest influx of Mono users could be from existing linux users who want a better programming situation that is found with Mono - in which case, some of my suggestions are misguided because they are due to my lack of knowledge of Linux. However, i think that .Net being a Microsoft technology initially means that a large userbase are windows developers who like the appeal of Open Source and are trying out Mono. For this reason, they are going to be unfamiliar with Linux, are going to be running into similar issues as i have, are going to be asking the same questions on the lists time and time again (if they even bother to subscribe). Whilst ideally i would like to be contributing code to make Mono a better project, i can, as a user still offer feedback on the setup process and point out things that could be improved, hopefully saving thousands of other developers who might be similar in my skillset from going through some of the same frustration that i have been through. The fact that there are many blogs out there with similar frustrations being vented would seem to indicate that there is room for improvement - maybe we are just trying to get into the game too early and Mono will get to a much more useable point soon. It can never be as good, as Microsoft is for-profit, and will always be revising their products (C# won't be the C# we know now in five years, I'll warrent. I actually dont buy this at all. An excellent production team with good processes in place will make good products regardless of how the product is licenced at the end or whether they are for profit (and last i checked, Novell was definitely a for-profit company). Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] mod_mono in vhosts
Gonzalo Paniagua Javier wrote: You're probably using an old version of mod_mono, as this was a bug in one of the latest releases (not the last one ;-). Suse 9.2 with mono 1.1.5, mod_mono 1.0.7 (installed via rpm -Uvh) using apache2.0.50 Still no go with the following in my vhost file: Alias / /srv/www/vhosts/mojo.e-media.com.au/ MonoApplications /:/srv/www/vhosts/mojo.e-media.com.au Location / SetHandler mono /Location With the error: [error] Not running mod-mono-server.exe because no MonoApplications, MonoApplicationsConfigFile or MonoApplicationConfigDir specified. Works fine when i move the above directives back into my default-server.conf Can i trust rpm -Uvh ?? Should i do a full uninstall and reinstall ? Or is mod_mono still buggy ?? (cant find the previous bug atm) Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Suggestions
Hi, First of all - let me state that i have been lurking here for a good while now and can appreciate that a lot of stuff is being done and that the following criticisms are intended in a constructive manner, of course if i am wrong in any of these then please let me know. Also, these things might already be known and being worked on. Installation: As more end-users (read developers not working on mono) start needing the mono runtime to run .net apps/asp.net dev/server setups they are going to be coming to the website to get the runtime. Currently it is very mono project oriented with the download section (all that most end-users care about) not abundantly clear. http://mozilla.org/firefox/ is a good example of a user oriented site that allows them to get what the want quickly and easily. Maybe even a novell.com/mono url would be better if there arent any political/technical hurdles. Secondly - the downloads page itself: Unfortunately there is probably not much you can do about all the distros, OS detection in the browser and making that the default download in a big clear section up the top would be an improvement (dont know if you can detect distro version from the browser - but that would be even better). The install sections are not clear - a user has no idea of the significance between 1.0.x and 1.1.x, they arent subscribed to the lists, the development release sounds like something that should be avoided because its in development, but from what i can tell that is actually the better one to be using. Or even delineating between Runtime and SDK versions if indeed that is what the difference is - the difference needs to be spelt out on the pages. The downloads page is inconsistent. 1.0.6 doesnt have an OSX installer (still being built i presumed), yet the 1.1.5 section has an OSX package - but its an old version. Probably best to have all OS listings there and have a 'package yet to come' on the right hand side. The windows installer in 1.0.6 doesnt say what version it is, and 1.1.5 has a 1.1.4 installer. RPM's - they might be cool somehow to linux people, but to the rest of the world, it is a step backwards. Anyone of almost any level of computing profficiency can download MS .Net (after digging around on their poorly layed out site) or Java, double click the installer and they are up and running (compared to having to learn rpm on linux) (the bitrock installer is great, but the install into non system directories is annoying, as well as lack of mod_mono and XSP in the 1.1.4 installer IIRC). The OSX and win32 installers are great. Can there not be a single rpm that just has everything ?? (mono-all.zip doesnt cut it imho). Consistency: 1.1.4 didnt have mod_mono and xsp on the downloads page, now 1.1.5 does (good imho). The 1.1.5 page still has at the top to download them from the 1.0.6 page. ASP.NET From http://www.mono-project.com/ASP.NET Both are fully functional at this point. This is somewhat disingenuous. A .net web developer is going to presume that this means it works just like IIS and .Net but on linux with mono and apache. It doesnt work on windows with apache and mono It doesnt work on OSX with apache and mono It works on linux - but only if your idea of good systems administration includes restarting apache everytime you make a change to your site. I know there is a bug open about it, i know there is a control panel work around. But really, ASP.Net development with mono is completely unuseable for real world situations on any platform. This is despite the fact that most of it is pretty much there waiting to be used. I am still going to keep on learning and getting more proficient with mono etc, but just wanted to highlight some of the difficulties that most people will encounter but who will probably not provide any feedback to the mono team. Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] mod_mono in vhosts
It works for me with current version. Can you try: MonoApplications mojo /:/srv/www/vhosts/mojo.e-media.com.au Location / MonoSetServerAlias mojo SetHandler mono /Location Copied and pasted the above into my conf, then rcapache2 restart Syntax error on line 71 of /etc/apache2/vhosts.d/mojo.e-media.com.au.conf: MonoApplications takes one argument, Comma separated list with virtual directories and real directories. One ASP.NET application will be created for each pair. Default: mojo:/install_packages/mono # rpm -qa | grep mod_mono mod_mono-1.0.7-1.ximian.10.1 Is there any way that i can confirm that that version is the actual file that is installed without querying via rpm ?? Thanks for your help, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] mod_mono in vhosts
BTW, I should note that it does actually work with that directive there in the vhost conf, its just the syntax error (perhaps erroneously) that is being reported. Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] GAC permissions
Hi, New to linux (suse 9.2) so please bear with me: Using mono 1.1.4 all the files in my GAC have owner/group of root. In my code where i use the Npgsql connector, my code runs fine when executed under root but under a normal user it bombs out badly: ** (postgres.exe:9267): WARNING **: Could not find assembly Npgsql, references from /home/nik/postgres.exe (assemblyref_index=1) Major/Minor: 1,0 Build: 5000,0 Token: 5d8b90d52f46fda7 System error: No such file or directory ** (postgres.exe:9267): WARNING **: Missing method .ctor in assembly /home/nik/postgres.exe typeref index 2 Unhandled Exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object Likewise, when using the gacutil to install npgsql from a normal user i get errors and it mentions permissions. So what user/group should i be setting the files in the gac to ?? If i change the group to 'users' with read perms then it complains about /etc/mono/machine.config It just doesnt feel right that i need to be opening up all the perms on things - but maybe this is how linux does things... if so is there any recommended set of permissions (or have i royally botched something up with the install ?). Any help appreciated, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] mod_mono in vhosts
Hi, With thanks to Rafael, the postgres stuff is working. Just one thing left with mod_mono (on suse 9.2): in my error_log i get: [Thu Mar 24 06:28:12 2005] [error] Not running mod-mono-server.exe because no MonoApplications, MonoApplicationsConfigFile or MonoApplicationConfigDir specified. But in my /etc/apache2/vhosts.d/mojo.e-media.com.au.conf file i have the following which is a combination of the vhosts template and the man mod_mono sample: VirtualHost mojo.e-media.com.au:80 ServerAdmin [EMAIL PROTECTED] ServerName mojo.e-media.com.au DocumentRoot /srv/www/vhosts/mojo.e-media.com.au ErrorLog /var/log/apache2/mojo.e-media.com.au-error_log CustomLog /var/log/apache2/mojo.e-media.com.au-access_log combined HostnameLookups Off UseCanonicalName Off ServerSignature On IfModule mod_userdir.c UserDir public_html Include /etc/apache2/mod_userdir.conf /IfModule Alias /demo /usr/share/doc/xsp/test MonoApplications /demo:/usr/share/doc/xsp/test Location /demo SetHandler mono /Location Directory /srv/www/vhosts/mojo.e-media.com.au Options Indexes FollowSymLinks AllowOverride None Order allow,deny Allow from all /Directory /VirtualHost My html pages show fine, it is only when i try to view the demo page that i get a 403 and the following in my vhost log: [Thu Mar 24 06:49:10 2005] [error] [client 192.168.104.209] (13)Permission denied: access to /demo/ denied But this looks more like its cascading from the initial startup problem. Can you put the MonoApplications directive within a VirtualHost element ? or are there any other steps needed to make it work in this way ? Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Mono/Cygwin CD - ISO File available for BitTorrent Download
Francisco T. Martinez wrote: This CD-ROM disc is based on the disc that was distributed at the recent Mono presentation in Plano Texas. It contains, multimedia tutorials tarballs with Mono source code, installers ready to use and most important, a very comprehensive Cygwin installation specially configured to work in tandem with the Mono 1.1.4 Win32 installer for building Mono, XSP, Gtk# and others from source code as described in the OReilly article http://www.ondotnet.com/pub/a/dotnet/2005/02/07/monowindows.html (also included in the CD) . It is really great to see this tutorial come out. Can i suggest that it would be really helpful to have this on the official mono site as currently there is a mishmash of howtos (oreilly, ondotnet, all-the-johnsons) that are at various states of uptodateness. Is there anyone out there that can produce an OSX version ?? Even if someone just gives me a real rough outline (using darwinports, fink or neither), i will htmlise and test it on a virgin OSX box for completeness and thoroughness and would be more than willing to maintain the doc if it means that i can start learning more about the development process behind mono. Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] Profiling applications
Hi, We are currently profiling performance on an ASP.net app (www.netaccounts.com.au) on .NET 1.1 and will also be setting up suse enterprise server 9.1 on the same box with mono 1.0.1. Currently we are using WAPT to simulate the clientside interaction and perfmon to look at the stats serverside. What tools would i be looking at serverside to analyse the performance with mono ?? (or even any other suggestions for testing client side performance). And curiosity question - will hyperthreading affect performance (either positively or negatively) on mono ?? Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] RE: Is it Mono safe?
Rick Kitts wrote: On May 20, 2004, at 2:03 PM, Jeffrey Stedfast wrote: you are confusing the issue. it's not the idea that can limit your freedom, it's the implementation that can. that said, your concerns becomes moot. I'm sorry but I don't understand what you're saying. The processor heat reduction helps you and your computing industry. Your useage of that IDEA does not in anyway help the Societ Govt etc. Your paying the soviet union for the processors that implement that idea would help the soviet govt. Likewise - C#, the idea of a multi-lingual VM, CLI, CTS etc alone are good ideas (and not original to MS). Using them to help you produce better code in a shorter time does not help microsoft if you use it on your own implementation. It does help them if you exclusively use only their implementation on their OS and place yourself under their control. There are way too many factors for microsoft to overcome to kill mono that it makes it highly unlikely that it will ever succeed. First - there is no single entity that they can shut down, they would have to contest every contributors copyright in every country that they come from (with different views on IP laws) and succeed in EVERY SINGLE CASE for them to have a chance at stopping the distribution of the CURRENT source. Those developers would still be free to create a workaround and continue after a setback - witness the SCO debacle and the approach all the authors had to working around the problem. Secondly - as pathetic as the DoJ has been in doing anything remotely resembling curtailing of MS's abuse of its monopoly position, it can still incur scrutiny from watchdogs if it attempted to do something so blatant as trying to kill competition from mono. The EU might even actually add some bite to it with a punishment. Then there is the court of public opinion - industry pundits would have a field day sensationalising Microsofts blatant abuse of monopoly power (yet again). Thirdly - as Miguel pointed out - unfortunately most development scenarios are now patent encumbered already. At the end of the day - your taking a risk: is it any bigger than using any other language ??(probably not) would it be insurmountable to overcome any obstacles ??(probably not) Do you get the benefits of this technology immediately to help you and your projects ?? (yes) Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] OT: Evolution and Mono
Sorry for the OT but I figure there are enough ximian people here who might know the answer. Is there any way to get Evolution running on Windows (cygwin or otherwise) ? Any future plans of getting Evolution re-written as a mono application ? (or anyone know of a full Outlook+Exchange equivalent for win32 clients any server ?) Many thanks, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Mono and Patents....
if i still don't understand this, please help me to understand it :) I think what you need is what the upcoming Patent Review might provide. For now you will probably just have to trust the Ximian monkeys who have probably given this a bit more thought than you have and have access to a few more legal resources than you have. Regards, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
[Mono-list] cygwin
Hi, Can anyone else confirm that following the instructions at: http://monoevo.sourceforge.net/mono-windows/mono-beginning-windows/x53.html using the latest cygwin and doing everything from scratch does not work ?? Cygwin itself craps out on a full install (easy to get around) i seemed to have issues with either libgc: configure: error: Library requirements (glib-2.0 = 1.3.11) not met; consider adjusting the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable if your libraries are in a nonstandard prefix so pkg-config can find them. I'm new to cygwin so im not quite sure where to fix up the issue - any pointers ? Cheers, Nik ___ Mono-list maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
