Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu user wants do see College videos that only works with Silverlight

[acrym]

I don't know if Moonlight can run Silverlight, but it's worth a try.

http://www.maketecheasier.com/install-and-run-silverlight-in-linux/



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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu user wants do see College videos that only works with Silverlight

[mbemidio]

I`ve tried this:
http://www.webupd8.org/2013/08/pipelight-use-silverlight-in-your-linux.html

But it didn`t work. 



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[Mono-list] Ubuntu user wants do see College videos that only works with Silverlight

[mbemidio]

Hi everybody!

My name is Marcello, I`m brazilian and i have been a Ubuntu user (don`t like
Windows) since 2007. My college uses a distance learning plataform that
consists in web pages and videos. However, in order to see video classes,
the web pag informs that is necessary instaling Microsoft Silverlight and
for Linux user, install Mono.

Do i can do this? I`ts possibilbe to see videos made for Silverlight at
Ubuntu?

I apreciate any answers and help!

Thank you!!  (sorry for my bad english)

Marcello Bressan Emidio
mbemi...@gmail.com



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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu 11.10 i386 mono and monodevelop packages

[Ian Norton]

Darn.. the pmono-mono package missed about 200 files that make up the basic
sdk.. 

MonoDevelop runs and can debug, but can't build anything.. stay tuned!

On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 07:14:25PM +, Ian Norton wrote:
> Actually, silly me, I've fixed that first bug already.
> 
> You can run all the normal mono programs using the pmono script, eg
> 
> $ pmono monodoc
> 
> Happy coding!
> 
> Ian
> --
> I may have used dictation software to write this email, please excuse any 
> confusing mistakes.
> 
> Ian Norton  wrote:
> 
> >Hello All,
> >
> >For a while now I've seen people ask for binary packages of monodevelop
> >and
> >mono for ubuntu and at last I've been able to finally find time to get
> >some
> >made.
> >
> >The packages provide a parallel mono intstallation that won't conflict
> >with the
> >mono runtime installed by ubuntu. In the repository are everything
> >needed by
> >monodevelop to load, build and debug a gtk# program on ubuntu 11.10
> >(oneiric)
> >
> >Getting started
> >---
> >
> >Add the following line to your /etc/apt/sources.list file
> >
> >deb http://void.printf.net/~bredroll/pmono ./
> >
> >Then:
> >$ sudo apt-get update
> >$ sudo apt-get install pmono-monodevelop pmono-scripts
> >
> >## or just the following for core mono
> >$ sudo apt-get install pmono-mono pmono-scripts
> >
> >( you need to install addins before MD, first bug for me to fix )
> >
> >Once all packages are downloaded and installed you have a full parallel
> >mono
> >install located in /opt/mono.
> >
> >Now all you need is to source the following script ( which I'll
> >eventually add
> >as a package ) before running mono or monodevelop.
> >
> >Eg:
> >
> >$ pmono bash
> >$ mono --version
> >$ monodevelop
> >
> >Included are everything needed to write a gtk# app using monodevelop
> >2.8.2.
> >
> >Given time, I'll update to the latest MD and latest mono packages when
> >they
> >come out.
> >
> >Anyone curious about how this works can have a look at the scripts
> >here:
> >
> >https://github.com/inorton/mono-ubuntu-build
> >
> >Best Regards!
> >
> >Ian
> >___
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> >http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu 11.10 i386 mono and monodevelop packages

[Ian Norton]

Actually, silly me, I've fixed that first bug already.

You can run all the normal mono programs using the pmono script, eg

$ pmono monodoc

Happy coding!

Ian
-- 
I may have used dictation software to write this email, please excuse any 
confusing mistakes.

Ian Norton  wrote:

>Hello All,
>
>For a while now I've seen people ask for binary packages of monodevelop
>and
>mono for ubuntu and at last I've been able to finally find time to get
>some
>made.
>
>The packages provide a parallel mono intstallation that won't conflict
>with the
>mono runtime installed by ubuntu. In the repository are everything
>needed by
>monodevelop to load, build and debug a gtk# program on ubuntu 11.10
>(oneiric)
>
>Getting started
>---
>
>Add the following line to your /etc/apt/sources.list file
>
>deb http://void.printf.net/~bredroll/pmono ./
>
>Then:
>$ sudo apt-get update
>$ sudo apt-get install pmono-monodevelop pmono-scripts
>
>## or just the following for core mono
>$ sudo apt-get install pmono-mono pmono-scripts
>
>( you need to install addins before MD, first bug for me to fix )
>
>Once all packages are downloaded and installed you have a full parallel
>mono
>install located in /opt/mono.
>
>Now all you need is to source the following script ( which I'll
>eventually add
>as a package ) before running mono or monodevelop.
>
>Eg:
>
>$ pmono bash
>$ mono --version
>$ monodevelop
>
>Included are everything needed to write a gtk# app using monodevelop
>2.8.2.
>
>Given time, I'll update to the latest MD and latest mono packages when
>they
>come out.
>
>Anyone curious about how this works can have a look at the scripts
>here:
>
>https://github.com/inorton/mono-ubuntu-build
>
>Best Regards!
>
>Ian
>___
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[Mono-list] ubuntu 11.10 i386 mono and monodevelop packages

[Ian Norton]

Hello All,

For a while now I've seen people ask for binary packages of monodevelop and
mono for ubuntu and at last I've been able to finally find time to get some
made.

The packages provide a parallel mono intstallation that won't conflict with the
mono runtime installed by ubuntu. In the repository are everything needed by
monodevelop to load, build and debug a gtk# program on ubuntu 11.10 (oneiric)

Getting started
---

Add the following line to your /etc/apt/sources.list file

deb http://void.printf.net/~bredroll/pmono ./

Then:
$ sudo apt-get update
$ sudo apt-get install pmono-monodevelop pmono-scripts

## or just the following for core mono
$ sudo apt-get install pmono-mono pmono-scripts

( you need to install addins before MD, first bug for me to fix )

Once all packages are downloaded and installed you have a full parallel mono
install located in /opt/mono.

Now all you need is to source the following script ( which I'll eventually add
as a package ) before running mono or monodevelop.

Eg:

$ pmono bash
$ mono --version
$ monodevelop

Included are everything needed to write a gtk# app using monodevelop 2.8.2.

Given time, I'll update to the latest MD and latest mono packages when they
come out.

Anyone curious about how this works can have a look at the scripts here:

https://github.com/inorton/mono-ubuntu-build

Best Regards!

Ian
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu 11.10 configuration problem

[Jörg Rosenkranz]

I have the same problem with a custom compiled f-spot. Running it using mono 
--runtime=v4.0 f-spot.exe fixes it for me. The program should be compiled 
against framework 3.5 though.

I haven't found a reason for that, but it seems to depend on Ubuntu's mono 
install.

Joerg

Am 04.11.2011 um 13:16 schrieb Ian Norton 
:

> It could be that your program is compiled for .net 4.0 but your mono doesnt
> support it.
> 
> On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 12:29:58AM +, Matthew Fleming wrote:
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm entirely new to mono so I'd really appreciate help with the following.
>> I am trying to run OpenVista CIS, which is supposed to run with mono under
>> Linux, on Ubuntu 11.10. I get the following errors:
>> 
>> mfleming@mgf-desktop:~/openvista/openvistacis-0.9.96-client$
>> ./OpenVistaCIS.exe
>> Missing method System.Reflection.Assembly::op_Equality(Assembly,Assembly)
>> in assembly /usr/lib/mono/2.0/mscorlib.dll, referenced in assembly
>> /usr/lib/mono/gac/gdk-sharp/2.12.0.0__35e10195dab3c99f/gdk-sharp.dll
>> ---Initial Exception---
>> Method not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'.
>>  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0]
>> in :0
>>  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0]
>> in :0
>> 
>> ---Second Exception---
>> An exception was thrown by the type initializer for Nest
>>  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.ShowUnhandledException
>> (System.Exception ex) [0x0] in :0
>> [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.MissingMethodException: Method
>> not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'.
>>  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0]
>> in :0
>>  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0]
>> in :0
>> 
>> It appears to me that this is probably a problem with the way mono is
>> configured in this Ubuntu distro, but I have no idea how to fix it. Any
>> assistance would be greatly appreciated.
>> 
>> Matthew Fleming
> 
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu 11.10 configuration problem

[Ian Norton]

It could be that your program is compiled for .net 4.0 but your mono doesnt
support it.

On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 12:29:58AM +, Matthew Fleming wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm entirely new to mono so I'd really appreciate help with the following.
> I am trying to run OpenVista CIS, which is supposed to run with mono under
> Linux, on Ubuntu 11.10. I get the following errors:
> 
> mfleming@mgf-desktop:~/openvista/openvistacis-0.9.96-client$
> ./OpenVistaCIS.exe
> Missing method System.Reflection.Assembly::op_Equality(Assembly,Assembly)
> in assembly /usr/lib/mono/2.0/mscorlib.dll, referenced in assembly
> /usr/lib/mono/gac/gdk-sharp/2.12.0.0__35e10195dab3c99f/gdk-sharp.dll
> ---Initial Exception---
> Method not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'.
>   at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0]
> in :0
>   at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0]
> in :0
> 
> ---Second Exception---
> An exception was thrown by the type initializer for Nest
>   at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.ShowUnhandledException
> (System.Exception ex) [0x0] in :0
> [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.MissingMethodException: Method
> not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'.
>   at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0]
> in :0
>   at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0]
> in :0
> 
> It appears to me that this is probably a problem with the way mono is
> configured in this Ubuntu distro, but I have no idea how to fix it. Any
> assistance would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Matthew Fleming

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[Mono-list] Ubuntu 11.10 configuration problem

[Matthew Fleming]

Hi,

I'm entirely new to mono so I'd really appreciate help with the following.
I am trying to run OpenVista CIS, which is supposed to run with mono under
Linux, on Ubuntu 11.10. I get the following errors:

mfleming@mgf-desktop:~/openvista/openvistacis-0.9.96-client$
./OpenVistaCIS.exe
Missing method System.Reflection.Assembly::op_Equality(Assembly,Assembly)
in assembly /usr/lib/mono/2.0/mscorlib.dll, referenced in assembly
/usr/lib/mono/gac/gdk-sharp/2.12.0.0__35e10195dab3c99f/gdk-sharp.dll
---Initial Exception---
Method not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'.
  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0] in
:0
  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0]
in :0

---Second Exception---
An exception was thrown by the type initializer for Nest
  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.ShowUnhandledException
(System.Exception ex) [0x0] in :0
[ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.MissingMethodException: Method
not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'.
  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0] in
:0
  at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0]
in :0

It appears to me that this is probably a problem with the way mono is
configured in this Ubuntu distro, but I have no idea how to fix it. Any
assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Matthew Fleming
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Victor Rocha]

I guess this could be addressed with current Debian/Ubuntu mono
packagers, who would be more knowledgeable on both technical and
process details.



On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 12:24 PM, NokNok Developer  wrote:
> Ok, I will bite.
>
> Lets say we were willing to sponsor such an effort, are there folks who
> would be willing to act as the maintainers? Keeping distribution in line
> with the current stable / beta / dev efforts ?
>
> I'd be willing to listen to ideas/proposals, its not just the money
> aspect, but also servers, download cdn, the organization and expectations.
>
> Shawn
>
>
> On 5/21/2011 11:14 AM, Ian Norton wrote:
>> Ive just been trying out the 2.10 debian packages, good so far except its 
>> only moonlight 2 so I built my own from trunk again
>>
>> "Victor Rocha"  wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if someone in this list has any experience in fund-raising
>>> for open-source projects... well I´m certain there is someone.
>>>
>>> Being Ubuntu such a popular distro, and being .NET such a popular
>>> framework, "mono for Ubuntu" could perhaps make some company think of
>>> sparing some bucks for it, for its own user, or for the "publicity"
>>> value of it.
>>>
>>> I mean, "some hundreds man-hours" account to a few thousand dollars,
>>> maybe it could be a justifiable effort for Google Summer of Code,
>>> Canonical itself, or one of these new "crowdsourcing" portals.
>>>
>>> well, just my $0.015
>>> :-D
>>>
>>> greets
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Thomas Mayer
>>> wrote:
 Hi,

 I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have
 different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their
 default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have
>>> to
 migrate their infrastructure etc.

 Just my $0.02,
 Thomas
 --
 "When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching
 other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge."
 (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge)
 http://www.residuum.org/
 ___
 Mono-list maillist  -  Mono-list@lists.ximian.com
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[NokNok Developer]

Ok, I will bite.

Lets say we were willing to sponsor such an effort, are there folks who 
would be willing to act as the maintainers? Keeping distribution in line 
with the current stable / beta / dev efforts ?

I'd be willing to listen to ideas/proposals, its not just the money 
aspect, but also servers, download cdn, the organization and expectations.

Shawn


On 5/21/2011 11:14 AM, Ian Norton wrote:
> Ive just been trying out the 2.10 debian packages, good so far except its 
> only moonlight 2 so I built my own from trunk again
>
> "Victor Rocha"  wrote:
>
>> I wonder if someone in this list has any experience in fund-raising
>> for open-source projects... well I´m certain there is someone.
>>
>> Being Ubuntu such a popular distro, and being .NET such a popular
>> framework, "mono for Ubuntu" could perhaps make some company think of
>> sparing some bucks for it, for its own user, or for the "publicity"
>> value of it.
>>
>> I mean, "some hundreds man-hours" account to a few thousand dollars,
>> maybe it could be a justifiable effort for Google Summer of Code,
>> Canonical itself, or one of these new "crowdsourcing" portals.
>>
>> well, just my $0.015
>> :-D
>>
>> greets
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Thomas Mayer
>> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have
>>> different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their
>>> default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have
>> to
>>> migrate their infrastructure etc.
>>>
>>> Just my $0.02,
>>> Thomas
>>> --
>>> "When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching
>>> other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge."
>>> (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge)
>>> http://www.residuum.org/
>>> ___
>>> Mono-list maillist  -  Mono-list@lists.ximian.com
>>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
>>>
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Ian Norton]

Ive just been trying out the 2.10 debian packages, good so far except its only 
moonlight 2 so I built my own from trunk again

"Victor Rocha"  wrote:

>I wonder if someone in this list has any experience in fund-raising
>for open-source projects... well I´m certain there is someone.
>
>Being Ubuntu such a popular distro, and being .NET such a popular
>framework, "mono for Ubuntu" could perhaps make some company think of
>sparing some bucks for it, for its own user, or for the "publicity"
>value of it.
>
>I mean, "some hundreds man-hours" account to a few thousand dollars,
>maybe it could be a justifiable effort for Google Summer of Code,
>Canonical itself, or one of these new "crowdsourcing" portals.
>
>well, just my $0.015
> :-D
>
>greets
>
>
>On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Thomas Mayer 
>wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have
>> different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their
>> default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have
>to
>> migrate their infrastructure etc.
>>
>> Just my $0.02,
>> Thomas
>> --
>> "When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching
>> other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge."
>> (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge)
>> http://www.residuum.org/
>> ___
>> Mono-list maillist  -  Mono-list@lists.ximian.com
>> http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
>>
>___
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Victor Rocha]

I wonder if someone in this list has any experience in fund-raising
for open-source projects... well I´m certain there is someone.

Being Ubuntu such a popular distro, and being .NET such a popular
framework, "mono for Ubuntu" could perhaps make some company think of
sparing some bucks for it, for its own user, or for the "publicity"
value of it.

I mean, "some hundreds man-hours" account to a few thousand dollars,
maybe it could be a justifiable effort for Google Summer of Code,
Canonical itself, or one of these new "crowdsourcing" portals.

well, just my $0.015
 :-D

greets


On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Thomas Mayer  wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have
> different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their
> default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have to
> migrate their infrastructure etc.
>
> Just my $0.02,
> Thomas
> --
> "When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching
> other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge."
> (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge)
> http://www.residuum.org/
> ___
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Thomas Mayer]

Hi,

I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have
different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their
default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have to
migrate their infrastructure etc.

Just my $0.02,
Thomas
-- 
"When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching
other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge."
(Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge)
http://www.residuum.org/
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[David Harper]

> I'm not sure anyone truly understands all the effort especially the
> initial effort it takes to get stuff packaged and pushed out

I could only imagine, I prefer to develop software as I have the advantage 
of
being able to copy other peoples code :)

Let's hope the guys who lost their jobs are doing okay, it's not a good time 
to
be looking for work...

Thanks a million again to you, meebey, directhex and everybody else's 
efforts
to make Mono available.

-Original Message- 
From: Stephen Shaw
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:06 AM
To: David Harper
Cc: Daniel Hughes ; mono-list
Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:58, David Harper  wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> I apologize, I lacked clarity in my previous post.
>
> The Ubuntu issue mentioned by Daniel is a real problem, we're always
> versions behind and it's frustrating.
> In light of the recent changes, it is worth considering if an opportunity
> existed to address some of these issues.
>
> It would be great to have the ability to install the latest Mono across
> multiple platforms, ie. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Windows, etc.
> Bringing Mono up to date in Ubuntu would be awesome, for Mono and for
> Ubuntu.
>
> From the feedback to Daniel's initial post, it has been made manifest to 
> me
> that there is a lot more work
> that goes into the packaging of Mono than I realized, and there are other
> issues such as distribution policies,
> application installation base compatibilities, etc.
>
> I am very grateful to you and everybody else who makes Mono available to 
> us.

I'm not sure anyone truly understands all the effort especially the
initial effort it takes to get stuff packaged and pushed out :)

Even though I'm not a debian/ubuntu user I think it would be great to
have mono up to date on there as well.  You can ask meebey and
directhex, I've bugged them enough :)

It certainly makes packaging easier with the latest stuff.  That has
been one of the biggest headaches for me and the packages I was trying
to package on ubuntu.  Not to mention the policy stuff.  It took me
longer to get the debian licensing stuff done than it took me to
package my stuff on openSUSE and fedora.

Cheers,
Stephen 

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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Stephen Shaw]

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:58, David Harper  wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> I apologize, I lacked clarity in my previous post.
>
> The Ubuntu issue mentioned by Daniel is a real problem, we're always
> versions behind and it's frustrating.
> In light of the recent changes, it is worth considering if an opportunity
> existed to address some of these issues.
>
> It would be great to have the ability to install the latest Mono across
> multiple platforms, ie. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Windows, etc.
> Bringing Mono up to date in Ubuntu would be awesome, for Mono and for
> Ubuntu.
>
> From the feedback to Daniel's initial post, it has been made manifest to me
> that there is a lot more work
> that goes into the packaging of Mono than I realized, and there are other
> issues such as distribution policies,
> application installation base compatibilities, etc.
>
> I am very grateful to you and everybody else who makes Mono available to us.

I'm not sure anyone truly understands all the effort especially the
initial effort it takes to get stuff packaged and pushed out :)

Even though I'm not a debian/ubuntu user I think it would be great to
have mono up to date on there as well.  You can ask meebey and
directhex, I've bugged them enough :)

It certainly makes packaging easier with the latest stuff.  That has
been one of the biggest headaches for me and the packages I was trying
to package on ubuntu.  Not to mention the policy stuff.  It took me
longer to get the debian licensing stuff done than it took me to
package my stuff on openSUSE and fedora.

Cheers,
Stephen
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[David Harper]

Hi Stephen,

I apologize, I lacked clarity in my previous post.

The Ubuntu issue mentioned by Daniel is a real problem, we're always 
versions behind and it's frustrating.
In light of the recent changes, it is worth considering if an opportunity 
existed to address some of these issues.

It would be great to have the ability to install the latest Mono across 
multiple platforms, ie. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Windows, etc.
Bringing Mono up to date in Ubuntu would be awesome, for Mono and for 
Ubuntu.

>From the feedback to Daniel's initial post, it has been made manifest to me 
that there is a lot more work
that goes into the packaging of Mono than I realized, and there are other 
issues such as distribution policies,
application installation base compatibilities, etc.

I am very grateful to you and everybody else who makes Mono available to us.

-Original Message- 
From: Stephen Shaw
Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:34 AM
To: Daniel Hughes
Cc: mono-list
Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 22:54, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
> How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system
> from the company which has treated them so badly?

Just to clarify, it wasn't openSUSE or SUSE that laid off the mono
team.  And to be technical, it wasn't Novell either.  In case you
missed it, Attachemate recently bought Novell, split SUSE off and
canned the mono team.  Since you mention Attachemate one would have to
ask if your are just trolling at this point?

Cheers,
Stephen
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Stephen Shaw]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 22:54, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
> How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system
> from the company which has treated them so badly?

Just to clarify, it wasn't openSUSE or SUSE that laid off the mono
team.  And to be technical, it wasn't Novell either.  In case you
missed it, Attachemate recently bought Novell, split SUSE off and
canned the mono team.  Since you mention Attachemate one would have to
ask if your are just trolling at this point?

Cheers,
Stephen
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Stephen Shaw]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 21:43, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
> Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it
> taking up all my time in the near future.
> However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead
> supports ubuntu.
> This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a
> larger user base.

I don't think you fully understand what you are asking for.  Having
done both RPM and DEB packaging I'll take RPM (both openSUSE and
fedora) packaging especially in OBS  (OpenSUSE Build Service) any day
over debian packaging.  In fact, if the debian guys don't pick up the
packages I put together I'll most likely not support ubuntu.  Just
isn't worth my extremely limited free time that I have.  Ignoring the
large amount of complexity that comes with packaging for
debian/ubuntu, they package mono differently than on openSUSE and even
fedora for that matter.

Add in all of the different components, this isn't about just
packaging mono.  Its about all of the packaging that are
required/connected to mono.  They are generating and packaging an
entire developer platform/ecosystem not just some libraries.  Its very
impressive what these guys do.  It'd be unfair to not mention the
amount of time that ajorg puts into all of this.


Cheers,
Stephen

PS.  As an openSUSE user (Disclaimer) I'd be sad to see the support
drop.  What strikes me as odd is your request to drop support for an
entire distro and its users.  Coming from someone that is writing a
bible study application that doesn't seem very christian.
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Alan]

Firstly, packages are already available for debian which means ubuntu
ones shouldn't be much longer.

http://www.meebey.net/posts/the_big_split_mono_2.10_debian_packaging/

Secondly, there are many reasons why debian packages take longer than
opensuse packages. It mostly boils down to debian policy. It would
take between 5 and 10 hours to give debian a set of mono package
similar to what is provided to opensuse, however this won't be
acceptable. Debian has its policies for good reason and if you don't
agree with them it should be raised with debian. See
http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/ for more details.

What it boils down to is that packaging mono for debian/ubuntu takes
dozens (hundreds?) of man hours. Packaging for opensuse takes a
handful. It is unlikely that xamarin will duplicate the great work
done by Jo Shields and Mirco Bauer in the near future (though this is
speculation) simply due to the huge effort this would require. It'd
take far longer than doing all the opensuse, windows and mac packages
which they take care of. Jo and Mirco will get you a modern mono as
fast as is humanly possible. If it's not fast enough, I'm sure they'd
welcome help :)

Alan

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:28 AM, David Harper  wrote:
> Actually, I agree with Daniel, I think he is being both reasonable and
> forward thinking.
>
> There is an opportunity now to broaden Mono’s usage via Ubuntu.
>
> If Java can be deployed seamlessly across platforms why can’t Mono? On
> Ubuntu 10.10 we can install parallel versions of Mono, but we can’t expect
> the end users to set up parallel environments just to run our applications.
>
> The differences between Mono 2.10 and 2.6.7 are significant enough that as a
> developer you either drop Ubuntu as a target or you code large portions of
> your application for the lowest common denominator (2.6.7) – which is
> frustrating.
>
> Ubuntu’s acceptance of key Mono desktop projects has demonstrated that Mono
> has a lot to offer, and with Ubuntu being the best Linux experience (in my
> opinion) this is a really good opportunity that’s worth exploring.
>
> Everybody is grateful for the efforts of Mirco Bauer and Jo Shields.
>
> Daniel is just asking the question, and I think it is a good question worth
> investigating.
> From: Bojan Rajkovic
> Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:24 PM
> To: mono-list
> Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
>
>
> On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>
> Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it
> taking up all my time in the near future.
>
> However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead
> supports ubuntu.
>
> This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a
> larger user base.
>
>
>
> This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the
> "Mono team" members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means
> learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon
> already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who
> do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and
> Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things
> for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is
> already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu
> packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer
> (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team
> for Debian.
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide  wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out.
>>
>> On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
>> > I looking for upto date packages,
>> >
>> > I"m still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages.
>> >
>> > So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the
>> > same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or
>> > three
>> > later.
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> How do you define "official ubuntu support"?
>> >>
>> >> The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to
>> >> package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the
>> >> official Ubuntu releases.
>> >>
>

Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[David Harper]

Actually, I agree with Daniel, I think he is being both reasonable and forward 
thinking.

There is an opportunity now to broaden Mono’s usage via Ubuntu. 

If Java can be deployed seamlessly across platforms why can’t Mono? On Ubuntu 
10.10 we can install parallel versions of Mono, but we can’t expect the end 
users to set up parallel environments just to run our applications.

The differences between Mono 2.10 and 2.6.7 are significant enough that as a 
developer you either drop Ubuntu as a target or you code large portions of your 
application for the lowest common denominator (2.6.7) – which is frustrating. 
Ubuntu’s acceptance of key Mono desktop projects has demonstrated that Mono has 
a lot to offer, and with Ubuntu being the best Linux experience (in my opinion) 
this is a really good opportunity that’s worth exploring.
Everybody is grateful for the efforts of Mirco Bauer and Jo Shields.
Daniel is just asking the question, and I think it is a good question worth 
investigating.
From: Bojan Rajkovic 
Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:24 PM
To: mono-list 
Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support


On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:


  Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it 
taking up all my time in the near future. 

  However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead 
supports ubuntu. 


  This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger 
user base.



This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the "Mono 
team" members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means learning a 
whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon already pointed 
out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who do a much better job 
of making available proper packages for Debian and Debian derivatives than the 
Mono team ever could. There are better things for the newly-minted Xamarin team 
to focus on than duplicating work that is already done by two able and willing 
hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu packages, donate some cash or better yet, 
some time to either Mirco Bauer (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who 
comprise the Mono packaging tag-team for Debian.


  On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide  wrote:

I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out.

On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
> I looking for upto date packages,
> 
> I"m still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages.
> 
> So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the
> same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three
> later.
> 
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst  wrote:
> 
>> On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>>
>>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
>>>
>>
>> How do you define "official ubuntu support"?
>>
>> The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to
>> package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the
>> official Ubuntu releases.
>>
>> So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu.
>>
>> What more than that would you like to see?
>>
>> Jonathan
>>


—Bojan



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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Daniel Hughes]

Just in case anyone cares about the numbers.

The stats from Wikimedia (think Wikipedia users) for market share are as
follows:

Ubuntu: 0.72% market share
Open SUSE: 0.05% of market share

So ubuntu has 14 times more users then Open SUSE. That's an order of
magnitude more users!
http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2011-03/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm

The mono project can continue to ignore these numbers and pretend they will
go away. Or embrace the opportunity that these numbers represent.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:

> How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system
> from the company which has treated them so badly?
>
> I guess only time will tell.
>
> By the way I want to say a big thanks for the work that Mirco Bauer
> (meebey) and Jo Shields (directhex) does, I have thanked directhex many
> times myself. The sad state of mono on ubuntu is not there fault they do an
> amazing job considering that there is only two of them and they work unpaid
> in there spare time.
>
> I also want to say a big thank you to the mono team for producing such an
> great product, and I wish you the best of luck for the future.
>
> Yes I might moan and complain about how out of date mono is on ubuntu, but
> I really to appreciate the work you guys do. It has made developing Wide
> Margin a breeze.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Bojan Rajkovic wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>>
>> Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And
>> I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future.
>>
>> However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead
>> supports ubuntu.
>>
>>
>> This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a
>> larger user base.
>>
>>
>> This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the
>> "Mono team" members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means
>> learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon
>> already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who
>> do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and
>> Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things
>> for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is
>> already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu
>> packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer
>> (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team
>> for Debian.
>>
>> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide  wrote:
>>
>>> I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out.
>>>  On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
>>> > I looking for upto date packages,
>>> >
>>> > I"m still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages.
>>> >
>>> > So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on
>>> the
>>> > same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or
>>> three
>>> > later.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >> How do you define "official ubuntu support"?
>>> >>
>>> >> The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to
>>> >> package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in
>>> the
>>> >> official Ubuntu releases.
>>> >>
>>> >> So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in
>>> Ubuntu.
>>> >>
>>> >> What more than that would you like to see?
>>> >>
>>> >> Jonathan
>>> >>
>>>
>>
>> —Bojan
>>
>> ___
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>>
>>
>
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Daniel Hughes]

How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system
from the company which has treated them so badly?

I guess only time will tell.

By the way I want to say a big thanks for the work that Mirco Bauer (meebey)
and Jo Shields (directhex) does, I have thanked directhex many times myself.
The sad state of mono on ubuntu is not there fault they do an amazing job
considering that there is only two of them and they work unpaid in there
spare time.

I also want to say a big thank you to the mono team for producing such an
great product, and I wish you the best of luck for the future.

Yes I might moan and complain about how out of date mono is on ubuntu, but I
really to appreciate the work you guys do. It has made developing Wide
Margin a breeze.

Cheers,
Daniel




On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Bojan Rajkovic wrote:

>
> On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>
> Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it
> taking up all my time in the near future.
>
> However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead
> supports ubuntu.
>
>
> This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a
> larger user base.
>
>
> This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the
> "Mono team" members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means
> learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon
> already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who
> do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and
> Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things
> for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is
> already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu
> packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer
> (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team
> for Debian.
>
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide  wrote:
>
>> I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out.
>> On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
>> > I looking for upto date packages,
>> >
>> > I"m still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages.
>> >
>> > So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the
>> > same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or
>> three
>> > later.
>> >
>> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> How do you define "official ubuntu support"?
>> >>
>> >> The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to
>> >> package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the
>> >> official Ubuntu releases.
>> >>
>> >> So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu.
>> >>
>> >> What more than that would you like to see?
>> >>
>> >> Jonathan
>> >>
>>
>
> —Bojan
>
> ___
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>
>
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Bojan Rajkovic]

On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:

> Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it 
> taking up all my time in the near future.
> 
> However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead 
> supports ubuntu. 

> This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger 
> user base.
> 

This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the "Mono 
team" members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means learning a 
whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon already pointed 
out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who do a much better job 
of making available proper packages for Debian and Debian derivatives than the 
Mono team ever could. There are better things for the newly-minted Xamarin team 
to focus on than duplicating work that is already done by two able and willing 
hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu packages, donate some cash or better yet, 
some time to either Mirco Bauer (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who 
comprise the Mono packaging tag-team for Debian.

> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide  wrote:
> I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out.
> 
> On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
> > I looking for upto date packages,
> > 
> > I"m still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages.
> > 
> > So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the
> > same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three
> > later.
> > 
> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst  wrote:
> > 
> >> On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
> >>
> >>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
> >>>
> >>
> >> How do you define "official ubuntu support"?
> >>
> >> The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to
> >> package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the
> >> official Ubuntu releases.
> >>
> >> So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu.
> >>
> >> What more than that would you like to see?
> >>
> >> Jonathan
> >>

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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Daniel Hughes]

Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it
taking up all my time in the near future.

However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead
supports ubuntu.
This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a
larger user base.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide  wrote:

> I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out.
> On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
> > I looking for upto date packages,
> >
> > I"m still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages.
> >
> > So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the
> > same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or
> three
> > later.
> >
> > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst 
> wrote:
> >
> >> On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
> >>
> >>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
> >>>
> >>
> >> How do you define "official ubuntu support"?
> >>
> >> The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to
> >> package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the
> >> official Ubuntu releases.
> >>
> >> So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu.
> >>
> >> What more than that would you like to see?
> >>
> >> Jonathan
> >>
>
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Daniel Hughes]

I looking for upto date packages,

I"m still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages.

So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the
same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three
later.

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst  wrote:

> On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>
>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
>>
>
> How do you define "official ubuntu support"?
>
> The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to
> package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the
> official Ubuntu releases.
>
> So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu.
>
> What more than that would you like to see?
>
> Jonathan
>
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Jonathan Pobst]

On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?

How do you define "official ubuntu support"?

The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to 
package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the 
official Ubuntu releases.

So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu.

What more than that would you like to see?

Jonathan
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Abe Gillespie]

The other reality is the team seems to mostly prefer Mac OS X now.

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Rodrigo Kumpera  wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
>>
>> Now that Novell has been purchased by Attachmate and has laid off its mono
>> developers.
>> And a new mono company xamarin has been started which is
>> not associated with open suse.
>> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
>
> This is certainly a possibility, but I can tell you the sad reality of it.
> The novell team was already overloaded
> during releases before the Attachmate layoffs and it's not likely this will
> improve in the immediate future so
> the only way to make sure it will happen is if the ubuntu community step up
> and help.
>
>
>
>
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Rodrigo Kumpera]

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:

> Now that Novell has been purchased by Attachmate and has laid off its mono
> developers.
> And a new mono company xamarin has been started which is
> not associated with open suse.
>
> Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?
>
>
This is certainly a possibility, but I can tell you the sad reality of it.
The novell team was already overloaded
during releases before the Attachmate layoffs and it's not likely this will
improve in the immediate future so
the only way to make sure it will happen is if the ubuntu community step up
and help.
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[Mono-list] ubuntu support

[Daniel Hughes]

Now that Novell has been purchased by Attachmate and has laid off its mono
developers.
And a new mono company xamarin has been started which is not associated with
open suse.

Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward?

Ubuntu represents a larger user base for mono then suse. It has 3 default
mono apps but is still stuck on a very old version of mono. Ubuntu has shown
a willingness to adopt mono applications and would be an idea primary
platform for the mono project going forward.

Without the funding from Novell I not sure that open suse has anything left
to offer the mono project and I'm sure it does not deserve the exclusive
first class support it has historically enjoyed.

I have a open source mono application (Wide Margin
https://bitbucket.org/trampster/widemargin/wiki/Home) which is getting close
to first alpha release and I will firstly be targeting Ubuntu. Because
that's where the desktop users are (as was demonstrated by the banshee usage
stats). I would love to have the mono project behind my chosen  platform and
know that I can use the lastest and greatest mono features.
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

Yes, and I think that is part of the problem which is based on the way
ubuntu is run. Ubuntu updates are (normally) bug fixes only. New
release are not picked up until the next OS release.

They can mostly get away with this because they release every 6
months. The standard procedure for a ubuntu user wanting a newer
version of a application is to use a PPA. I believe that in the next
version of ubuntu this is all changing. To make it much easier to
update application which should help the situation.

More info is available here:
http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/latest-app-releases-to-be-made.html

I'm not sure exactly how this will effect mono. Maybe someone here can comment.

2010/8/13 "Andrés G. Aragoneses" :
> El 12/08/10 03:24, Daniel Hughes escribió:
>> Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono
>> between OS releases.
>
> If they don't do, and that means that Mono apps (included by default,
> such as F-Spot) have bugs or even cannot compile, they will be forced to
> do it.
>
>
>> Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu
>> packages for new mono releases.
>>
>> Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or
>> use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available.
>
> Not users, *advanced users*. Normal users just install the CD/DVD, and
> never update packages except security updates, until they `order` the
> next set of CD/DVDs when the new Ubuntu version comes out.
>
>
>> This is the way it is and this discussion shows that it will not
>> change. Thank you all for explaining this to me. I see no reason for
>> any further discussion here.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andreia Gaita  wrote:
>>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
 Quote
 "so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
 where Mono is not included by default"

 So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
 would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
 team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
 mono support on ubuntu would be improved.
>>>
>>> I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works
>>> in linux distributions, which is why you're not "getting" the
>>> explanations that have been put forth already.
>>>
>>> The developer of the application provides the code, and the
>>> distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software
>>> for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule
>>> for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not
>>> update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many
>>> things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer
>>> not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3)
>>> they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other
>>> reasons, as miguel explained earlier.
>>>
>>> We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have
>>> package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the
>>> maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go
>>> look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu
>>> and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how
>>> things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your
>>> frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has
>>> explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any
>>> differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to
>>> compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer,
>>> there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your
>>> system with little effort.
>>>
>>> You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's
>>> how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy
>>> is a topic for other mailing lists, I think.
>>>
>>> andreia gaita
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Andrés G. Aragoneses]

El 12/08/10 03:24, Daniel Hughes escribió:
> Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono
> between OS releases.

If they don't do, and that means that Mono apps (included by default,
such as F-Spot) have bugs or even cannot compile, they will be forced to
do it.


> Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu
> packages for new mono releases.
> 
> Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or
> use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available.

Not users, *advanced users*. Normal users just install the CD/DVD, and
never update packages except security updates, until they `order` the
next set of CD/DVDs when the new Ubuntu version comes out.


> This is the way it is and this discussion shows that it will not
> change. Thank you all for explaining this to me. I see no reason for
> any further discussion here.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andreia Gaita  wrote:
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
>>> Quote
>>> "so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
>>> where Mono is not included by default"
>>>
>>> So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
>>> would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
>>> team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
>>> mono support on ubuntu would be improved.
>>
>> I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works
>> in linux distributions, which is why you're not "getting" the
>> explanations that have been put forth already.
>>
>> The developer of the application provides the code, and the
>> distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software
>> for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule
>> for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not
>> update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many
>> things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer
>> not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3)
>> they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other
>> reasons, as miguel explained earlier.
>>
>> We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have
>> package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the
>> maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go
>> look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu
>> and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how
>> things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your
>> frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has
>> explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any
>> differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to
>> compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer,
>> there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your
>> system with little effort.
>>
>> You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's
>> how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy
>> is a topic for other mailing lists, I think.
>>
>> andreia gaita
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Andrés G. Aragoneses]

I totally concur with this, and anyway, when someone in the thread said
that most Mono users actually come from the usage of Mono applications
in Ubuntu, that doesn't mean that the Mono team providing Ubuntu
packages would target more users. Why? Because you have to remember that
F-Spot (at least) comes by default in Ubuntu, thus Ubuntu comes with all
the necessary things to run Mono apps by default. Providing packages
would only be for the *advanced* user that installs updated versions of
mono apps.

Regards,

Andres

El 12/08/10 03:14, Andreia Gaita escribió:
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
>> Quote
>> "so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
>> where Mono is not included by default"
>>
>> So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
>> would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
>> team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
>> mono support on ubuntu would be improved.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works
> in linux distributions, which is why you're not "getting" the
> explanations that have been put forth already.
> 
> The developer of the application provides the code, and the
> distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software
> for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule
> for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not
> update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many
> things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer
> not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3)
> they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other
> reasons, as miguel explained earlier.
> 
> We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have
> package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the
> maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go
> look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu
> and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how
> things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your
> frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has
> explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any
> differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to
> compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer,
> there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your
> system with little effort.
> 
> You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's
> how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy
> is a topic for other mailing lists, I think.
> 
> andreia gaita
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

I understand and apologize.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Miguel de Icaza  wrote:
>
>> Quote
>> "so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
>> where Mono is not included by default"
>>
>> So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
>> would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
>> team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
>> mono support on ubuntu would be improved.
>
> You are quoting without the rest of the context, you are setting up a straw
> man and then you attempt to bring it down.
> It is also trivial to debunk your thesis.   Fedora does not ship Mono by
> default, and we do not package it for Fedora either.   The Fedora packages
> are maintained by the community.
>
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Miguel de Icaza]

> Quote
> "so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
> where Mono is not included by default"
>
> So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
> would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
> team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
> mono support on ubuntu would be improved.
>

You are quoting without the rest of the context, you are setting up a straw
man and then you attempt to bring it down.

It is also trivial to debunk your thesis.   Fedora does not ship Mono by
default, and we do not package it for Fedora either.   The Fedora packages
are maintained by the community.
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

By the way I use Jo's PPA (bandger ports).  I can highly recommend it
to anyone out there trying to run the latest mono develop. Or who
needs bug fixes or performance improvements from new mono releases.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Jeffrey Stedfast  wrote:
> On 08/11/2010 09:24 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
>> Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono
>> between OS releases.
>>
>
> It's their responsibility to update *all* of their packages between OS
> releases. If they don't, then they presumably had a reason not to. It's
> kinda hard for them not to take responsibility for the packages they
> ship ;-)
>
>> Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu
>> packages for new mono releases.
>>
>> Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or
>> use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available.
>>
>
> Jo (aka Directhex) is the guy that packages Mono for Ubuntu proper, so
> his PPA isn't really "third party".
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Jeff
>
>
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Jeffrey Stedfast]

On 08/11/2010 09:24 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
> Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono
> between OS releases.
>   

It's their responsibility to update *all* of their packages between OS
releases. If they don't, then they presumably had a reason not to. It's
kinda hard for them not to take responsibility for the packages they
ship ;-)

> Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu
> packages for new mono releases.
>
> Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or
> use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available.
>   

Jo (aka Directhex) is the guy that packages Mono for Ubuntu proper, so
his PPA isn't really "third party".

Hope that helps,

Jeff

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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono
between OS releases.

Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu
packages for new mono releases.

Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or
use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available.

This is the way it is and this discussion shows that it will not
change. Thank you all for explaining this to me. I see no reason for
any further discussion here.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andreia Gaita  wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
>> Quote
>> "so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
>> where Mono is not included by default"
>>
>> So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
>> would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
>> team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
>> mono support on ubuntu would be improved.
>
> I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works
> in linux distributions, which is why you're not "getting" the
> explanations that have been put forth already.
>
> The developer of the application provides the code, and the
> distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software
> for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule
> for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not
> update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many
> things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer
> not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3)
> they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other
> reasons, as miguel explained earlier.
>
> We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have
> package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the
> maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go
> look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu
> and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how
> things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your
> frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has
> explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any
> differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to
> compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer,
> there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your
> system with little effort.
>
> You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's
> how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy
> is a topic for other mailing lists, I think.
>
> andreia gaita
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Andreia Gaita]

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
> Quote
> "so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
> where Mono is not included by default"
>
> So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
> would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
> team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
> mono support on ubuntu would be improved.

I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works
in linux distributions, which is why you're not "getting" the
explanations that have been put forth already.

The developer of the application provides the code, and the
distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software
for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule
for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not
update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many
things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer
not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3)
they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other
reasons, as miguel explained earlier.

We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have
package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the
maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go
look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu
and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how
things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your
frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has
explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any
differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to
compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer,
there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your
system with little effort.

You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's
how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy
is a topic for other mailing lists, I think.

andreia gaita
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

Quote
"so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions
where Mono is not included by default"

So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you
would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono
team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so
mono support on ubuntu would be improved.

Was I trolling? maybe. This is born from frustration. In which case I
apologize and will attempt to be more constructive.

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Miguel de Icaza  wrote:
>
>> @miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if
>> ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono
>> applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder
>> if someone should tell them..
>
> I can not comment as the above sentence turned out to be impossible to
> parse.
> You might want to clarify, unless you are trolling, in which case, dont
> bother.
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Soto]

I know that is a bit offtopic, but I think that for Ubuntu users, isn't too
hard install lastest versions of Mono compiling it from tarball. There are
some guides and tutorials that explain in detail step by step the
installation, and it explains all dependencies that must be satisfied
previously if you want to install Mono in a fresh installation of Ubuntu.

In mi case, I use Ubuntu 10.04 and I enjoy Mono 2.6.7 with Monodevelop 2.4
(and Moonlight 2.0 SDK), both compiled from tarball.

Maybe, an alternative, is to publish an official guide that explain how to
install Mono compiling from tarball in a fresh installation of a Linux
distribution, so that everyone that wants to install Mono from tarball in
his favorite Linux distribution, can do as easily as possible.

Daniel Soto... I'm other :-)

2010/8/11 Miguel de Icaza 

>
> @miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if
>> ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono
>> applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder
>> if someone should tell them..
>>
>
> I can not comment as the above sentence turned out to be impossible to
> parse.
>
> You might want to clarify, unless you are trolling, in which case, dont
> bother.
>
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[ted leslie]

After looking at the go-mono.com site closer, I would suggest the following:


On download page, there is a "other" (linux tm image) link/button,
that then bring up  another line of 


2. Mono for Unsupported or Community-Supported Distribution

Novell does not offer support for your distribution. A number of distributions 
are supported by their own communities instead. Please select your platform 
below:

Debian

Ubuntu

Other
--

I would propose (dealing just with Ubuntu in this discussion) have Ubuntu 
listed as "Community-Supported",
and not tied to the "Unsupported" banner. As well, have it always display 
(rather then
switched into the page only when the "other" is selected).

Also perhaps adding in "Ubuntu derived i.e. Mint, Kubuntu, etc." 
as a further descriptor under the link.

Then when it goes to the Ubuntu specific page, all the warnings and explanation 
can stay. 
It then forwards off to badgerports.org, where I would suggest (to Joe), that 
this become more 
of an official page (or change the domain and create new site, i.e. 
go-mono-ubuntu.com, etc).
This all under the condition the effort/results meets the mono community 
definition of a 
"Community-Supported" distro. I am not sure what that condition is however, but 
I assume it has 
to do with showing a history of support from member of the community, and that 
it generally works.

Assuming this could happen, it then leaves the questions of who does this 
distro package 
(Joe should get help) [ I'd love to help, and I assume there are others], and, 
how is the badgerports (or new) domain funded/hosted (does the mono community 
as a whole, and/or 
Novell help with this)? Maybe this could be hosted off of the Mint domain as 
well, probably should be
hosted at two places for redundancy.
Just my 0.02 

tl



On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:32:52 +1200
Daniel Hughes  wrote:

> I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the
> "offical" ubuntu PPA.
> 
> However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the
> download page.
> The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to
> ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made
> and that it was stable.
> 
> It that was to happen I would be a happy man :)
> 
> (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again)
> 
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu  wrote:
> >
> > I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for
> > Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people
> > keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu.
> > Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to
> > Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're
> > ready, compared to the other builds.
> >
> >
> > ted leslie wrote:
> >>
> >> I had the same questions you had.
> >> I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32),
> >> and Mint is very
> >> pro "user experience" out of the box, and given were it is authored, it
> >> has lessor issue with
> >> licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember
> >> correctly)
> >> moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that
> >> are not normally on other distros.
> >> I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am
> >> hoping I can assist in
> >> that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint.
> >> I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see
> >> Miguel's and other posts).
> >>
> >> It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these
> >> and support them,
> >> BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting
> >> Mint/Ubuntu, that it would
> >> (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community,
> >> there by getting a huge
> >> return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I
> >> do see it as odd.
> >> However, there needs to be community,
> >> and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can
> >> handle the task (in the case
> >> of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu
> >> being so huge, and statistically
> >> speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the
> >> task of its own repos for Mono.
> >>
> >> This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can
> >> build the Ubuntu/Mint
> >> packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for
> >> developers with the latest and greatest).
> >> It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know
> >> about badger ports, I trust it, so I
> >> install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust
> >> aspect, to cater to the
> >> most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) co

Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Miguel de Icaza]

> @miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if
> ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono
> applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder
> if someone should tell them..
>

I can not comment as the above sentence turned out to be impossible to
parse.

You might want to clarify, unless you are trolling, in which case, dont
bother.
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

@miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if
ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono
applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder
if someone should tell them..



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:
> I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the
> "offical" ubuntu PPA.
>
> However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the
> download page.
> The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to
> ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made
> and that it was stable.
>
> It that was to happen I would be a happy man :)
>
> (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again)
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu  wrote:
>>
>> I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for
>> Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people
>> keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu.
>> Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to
>> Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're
>> ready, compared to the other builds.
>>
>>
>> ted leslie wrote:
>>>
>>> I had the same questions you had.
>>> I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32),
>>> and Mint is very
>>> pro "user experience" out of the box, and given were it is authored, it
>>> has lessor issue with
>>> licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember
>>> correctly)
>>> moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that
>>> are not normally on other distros.
>>> I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am
>>> hoping I can assist in
>>> that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint.
>>> I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see
>>> Miguel's and other posts).
>>>
>>> It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these
>>> and support them,
>>> BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting
>>> Mint/Ubuntu, that it would
>>> (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community,
>>> there by getting a huge
>>> return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I
>>> do see it as odd.
>>> However, there needs to be community,
>>> and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can
>>> handle the task (in the case
>>> of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu
>>> being so huge, and statistically
>>> speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the
>>> task of its own repos for Mono.
>>>
>>> This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can
>>> build the Ubuntu/Mint
>>> packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for
>>> developers with the latest and greatest).
>>> It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know
>>> about badger ports, I trust it, so I
>>> install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust
>>> aspect, to cater to the
>>> most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or
>>> the domain of the
>>> distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain,
>>> so that leaves go-mono.com
>>> (and its aliases), but "hosting" a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that
>>> involves ..?
>>> This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the
>>> opensuse site, so one
>>> get the "official" feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some
>>> domain that technically could
>>> be (but usual unlikely) rogue.
>>>
>>> So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better
>>> ubuntu/mint support 
>>> assuming its there, where can the PPA "officially" be housed for the
>>> paranoid (and rightfully so)
>>> consumer? Also, in it being "officially" housed, it also then benefits by
>>> that exposure, that is
>>> it has become "official", its were people will naturally look for it,
>>> which has brought us around
>>> full circle.
>>>
>>> tl
>>>
>>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200
>>> Daniel Hughes  wrote:
>>>
 Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
 ubuntu 10.04? no
 Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
 with ubuntu? yes

 Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
 problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
 viable.

 So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
 PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
 team like on windows and mac and opensuse.

 Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
 "supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
 Windows has first class support

Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the
"offical" ubuntu PPA.

However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the
download page.
The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to
ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made
and that it was stable.

It that was to happen I would be a happy man :)

(sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again)

On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu  wrote:
>
> I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for
> Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people
> keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu.
> Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to
> Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're
> ready, compared to the other builds.
>
>
> ted leslie wrote:
>>
>> I had the same questions you had.
>> I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32),
>> and Mint is very
>> pro "user experience" out of the box, and given were it is authored, it
>> has lessor issue with
>> licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember
>> correctly)
>> moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that
>> are not normally on other distros.
>> I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am
>> hoping I can assist in
>> that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint.
>> I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see
>> Miguel's and other posts).
>>
>> It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these
>> and support them,
>> BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting
>> Mint/Ubuntu, that it would
>> (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community,
>> there by getting a huge
>> return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I
>> do see it as odd.
>> However, there needs to be community,
>> and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can
>> handle the task (in the case
>> of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu
>> being so huge, and statistically
>> speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the
>> task of its own repos for Mono.
>>
>> This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can
>> build the Ubuntu/Mint
>> packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for
>> developers with the latest and greatest).
>> It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know
>> about badger ports, I trust it, so I
>> install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust
>> aspect, to cater to the
>> most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or
>> the domain of the
>> distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain,
>> so that leaves go-mono.com
>> (and its aliases), but "hosting" a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that
>> involves ..?
>> This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the
>> opensuse site, so one
>> get the "official" feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some
>> domain that technically could
>> be (but usual unlikely) rogue.
>>
>> So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better
>> ubuntu/mint support 
>> assuming its there, where can the PPA "officially" be housed for the
>> paranoid (and rightfully so)
>> consumer? Also, in it being "officially" housed, it also then benefits by
>> that exposure, that is
>> it has become "official", its were people will naturally look for it,
>> which has brought us around
>> full circle.
>>
>> tl
>>
>> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200
>> Daniel Hughes  wrote:
>>
>>> Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
>>> ubuntu 10.04? no
>>> Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
>>> with ubuntu? yes
>>>
>>> Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
>>> problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
>>> viable.
>>>
>>> So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
>>> PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
>>> team like on windows and mac and opensuse.
>>>
>>> Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
>>> "supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
>>> Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows
>>> because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows
>>> runs on .net and not on mono.
>>>
>>> How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for
>>> windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work
>>> on windows?
>>>
>>> What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono
>>> run on Mac isn'

Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Stifu]

I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for
Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people
keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu.
Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to
Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're
ready, compared to the other builds.


ted leslie wrote:
> 
> I had the same questions you had.
> I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32),
> and Mint is very
> pro "user experience" out of the box, and given were it is authored, it
> has lessor issue with
> licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember
> correctly)
> moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that
> are not normally on other distros.
> I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am
> hoping I can assist in 
> that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint.
> I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see
> Miguel's and other posts).
> 
> It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these
> and support them,
> BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting
> Mint/Ubuntu, that it would
> (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community,
> there by getting a huge
> return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I
> do see it as odd. 
> However, there needs to be community,
> and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can
> handle the task (in the case
> of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu
> being so huge, and statistically
> speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the
> task of its own repos for Mono.
> 
> This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can
> build the Ubuntu/Mint
> packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for
> developers with the latest and greatest). 
> It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know
> about badger ports, I trust it, so I 
> install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust
> aspect, to cater to the 
> most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or
> the domain of the
> distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain,
> so that leaves go-mono.com 
> (and its aliases), but "hosting" a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that
> involves ..?
> This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the
> opensuse site, so one
> get the "official" feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some
> domain that technically could
> be (but usual unlikely) rogue.
> 
> So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better
> ubuntu/mint support 
> assuming its there, where can the PPA "officially" be housed for the
> paranoid (and rightfully so)
> consumer? Also, in it being "officially" housed, it also then benefits by
> that exposure, that is
> it has become "official", its were people will naturally look for it,
> which has brought us around
> full circle.
> 
> tl
> 
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200
> Daniel Hughes  wrote:
> 
>> Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
>> ubuntu 10.04? no
>> Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
>> with ubuntu? yes
>> 
>> Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
>> problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
>> viable.
>> 
>> So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
>> PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
>> team like on windows and mac and opensuse.
>> 
>> Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
>> "supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
>> Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows
>> because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows
>> runs on .net and not on mono.
>> 
>> How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for
>> windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work
>> on windows?
>> 
>> What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono
>> run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple?
>> 
>> So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here
>> that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support
>> ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro  are not important to
>> the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even
>> if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is
>> openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting
>> how that works
>> 
>> I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they
>> interview Jo Sh

Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[ted leslie]

I had the same questions you had.
I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and 
Mint is very
pro "user experience" out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has 
lessor issue with
licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly)
moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are 
not normally on other distros.
I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I 
can assist in 
that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint.
I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's 
and other posts).

It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and 
support them,
BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting 
Mint/Ubuntu, that it would
(but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by 
getting a huge
return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do 
see it as odd. 
However, there needs to be community,
and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle 
the task (in the case
of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so 
huge, and statistically
speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task 
of its own repos for Mono.

This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can 
build the Ubuntu/Mint
packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers 
with the latest and greatest). 
It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about 
badger ports, I trust it, so I 
install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, 
to cater to the 
most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the 
domain of the
distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so 
that leaves go-mono.com 
(and its aliases), but "hosting" a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves 
..?
This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the 
opensuse site, so one
get the "official" feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain 
that technically could
be (but usual unlikely) rogue.

So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better 
ubuntu/mint support 
assuming its there, where can the PPA "officially" be housed for the paranoid 
(and rightfully so)
consumer? Also, in it being "officially" housed, it also then benefits by that 
exposure, that is
it has become "official", its were people will naturally look for it, which has 
brought us around
full circle.

tl

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200
Daniel Hughes  wrote:

> Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
> ubuntu 10.04? no
> Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
> with ubuntu? yes
> 
> Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
> problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
> viable.
> 
> So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
> PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
> team like on windows and mac and opensuse.
> 
> Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
> "supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
> Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows
> because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows
> runs on .net and not on mono.
> 
> How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for
> windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work
> on windows?
> 
> What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono
> run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple?
> 
> So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here
> that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support
> ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro  are not important to
> the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even
> if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is
> openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting
> how that works
> 
> I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they
> interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the
> badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite
> interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link
> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/
> 
> Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there
> in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what
> we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face.
> 
> Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no.
> Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubu

Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Miguel de Icaza]

Hello,

If you want to use a newer version of Mono or any of these other
> languages than what your distro provides, you follow The Linux Way,
> which is to download the tarball and build it yourself.
>

There is a little bit of rationale behind this that has escaped the
discussion, and Jonathan's list of languages reminded me of this.

The reason why runtimes, compilers and other pieces of infrastructure tend
to not be packaged is because the code could break existing code in the
distribution.

Some reasons include:
* Distribution makes changes to the software to suit their design
* Distribution applies specific patches for bugs that were reported to them,
but the fixes were not upstreamed
* Distributions applies patches for features that improve the integration on
their system
* Quality assurance and system tests

You will notice that the distributions that we support are either those that
we actually maintain Mono for, so my team plays a double role there
(OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default, and where
we install Mono on a separate directory (our own SLES and RHEL/CentOS,
MacOS, Windows).

Miguel
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Jonathan Pobst]

I think you are arguing against "The Linux Way" TM.

Here are some other programming language download pages:

GCC: http://gcc.gnu.org/install/binaries.html
PHP: http://php.net/downloads.php
Java: http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp
Python: http://www.python.org/download/

You will note that not a single one of them offers Ubuntu (or any other 
Linux) packages, and most of them provide Windows and Mac installers.

If you want to use a newer version of Mono or any of these other 
languages than what your distro provides, you follow The Linux Way, 
which is to download the tarball and build it yourself.

Jonathan


On 8/11/2010 5:54 AM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
> Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
> ubuntu 10.04? no
> Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
> with ubuntu? yes
>
> Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
> problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
> viable.
>
> So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
> PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
> team like on windows and mac and opensuse.
>
> Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
> "supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
> Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows
> because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows
> runs on .net and not on mono.
>
> How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for
> windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work
> on windows?
>
> What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono
> run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple?
>
> So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here
> that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support
> ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro  are not important to
> the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even
> if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is
> openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting
> how that works
>
> I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they
> interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the
> badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite
> interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link
> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/
>
> Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there
> in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what
> we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face.
>
> Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no.
> Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by
> giving it the big middle finger.
>
> Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default.
> And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class
> support.
>
> It doesn't make any sense to me at all.
>
> (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in
> gmail replies to the sender not the list.)
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic  
> wrote:
>> Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project?
>>
>> On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
>>
>> No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.
>> We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac
>> etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
>> mono team.
>>
>> That is all.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic
>> wrote:
>>>

 On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
>
> I'll second the complaint about the foru...
>>>
 ___
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>>
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Miguel de Icaza]

Hello,

You have a couple of options here:
(a) Step up and participate in your favorite distribution packaging effort
(b) Raise funds to fund the salary for someone to maintain the packages on a
continuous basis
(c) Wait for the existing Debian/Ubuntu team to package the software for you
(d) Use a distribution that we provide packages for
(e) Lobby your favorite distribution to pay developers to ensure that Mono
packages are packaged and delivered promptly.

If you want to do (a), there is a mailing list for this:

http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-packagers-list

Mono ships source code, and as a service, we consider where we need to fill
in the gaps.   We considered both Windows and Mac important platforms to
target due to the users on those platforms and the fact that the chances are
low that someone from that community would step up to do the work.

Ubuntu, Debian, and various BSD have motivated maintainers that follow their
relevant policies and are more knowledgeable of the procedures to get the
software properly distributed for those platforms than we do.

Miguel

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Daniel Hughes  wrote:

> Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
> ubuntu 10.04? no
> Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
> with ubuntu? yes
>
> Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
> problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
> viable.
>
> So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
> PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
> team like on windows and mac and opensuse.
>
> Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
> "supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
> Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows
> because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows
> runs on .net and not on mono.
>
> How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for
> windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work
> on windows?
>
> What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono
> run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple?
>
> So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here
> that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support
> ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro  are not important to
> the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even
> if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is
> openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting
> how that works
>
> I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they
> interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the
> badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite
> interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link
> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/
>
> Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there
> in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what
> we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face.
>
> Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no.
> Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by
> giving it the big middle finger.
>
> Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default.
> And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class
> support.
>
> It doesn't make any sense to me at all.
>
> (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in
> gmail replies to the sender not the list.)
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic 
> wrote:
> > Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project?
> >
> > On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
> >
> > No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.
> > We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac
> > etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
> > mono team.
> >
> > That is all.
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> I'll second the complaint about the foru...
> >>
> >> > ___
> >> > Mono-list maillist  -  mono-l...@lists.ximian.co...
> >
> > ___
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> >
> >
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with
ubuntu 10.04? no
Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped
with ubuntu? yes

Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the
problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be
viable.

So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a
PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono
team like on windows and mac and opensuse.

Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other
"supported" operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this.
Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows
because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows
runs on .net and not on mono.

How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for
windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work
on windows?

What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono
run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple?

So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here
that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support
ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro  are not important to
the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even
if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is
openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting
how that works

I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they
interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the
badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite
interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link
http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/

Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there
in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what
we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face.

Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no.
Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by
giving it the big middle finger.

Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default.
And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class
support.

It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

(I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in
gmail replies to the sender not the list.)

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic  wrote:
> Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project?
>
> On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:
>
> No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.
> We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac
> etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
> mono team.
>
> That is all.
>
> On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic 
> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I'll second the complaint about the foru...
>>
>> > ___
>> > Mono-list maillist  -  mono-l...@lists.ximian.co...
>
> ___
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Bojan Rajkovic]

 On 08/11/2010 12:16 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
For the benefit of us noobs, what is a PPA? I'm guessing pre-packaged 
archive or something like that. I tried looking it up on google but I 
don't see any acronyms that would seem to apply.



Hi Chris,

A PPA is a Personal Package Archive--basically a tiny Ubuntu repository 
maintained by a single person, on Launchpad.


Cheers,
Bojan
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Christopher Monroe]

For the benefit of us noobs, what is a PPA? I'm guessing pre-packaged archive 
or something like that. I tried looking it up on google but I don't see any 
acronyms that would seem to apply.

--- On Tue, 8/10/10, Bojan Rajkovic  wrote:

From: Bojan Rajkovic 
Subject: Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
To: "Daniel Hughes" 
Cc: mono-list@lists.ximian.com
Received: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 8:57 PM

Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project?
On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:

No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.

We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac

etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
mono team.

That is all.

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic  wrote:
>
> On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
>>
>> I'll second the complaint about the foru...
> ___
> Mono-list maillist  -  mono-l...@lists.ximian.co...


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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Bojan Rajkovic]

Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project?

On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, "Daniel Hughes"  wrote:

No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.
We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac
etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
mono team.

That is all.

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic 
wrote:

> >
> > On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
> >>
> >> I'll second the complaint about the foru...
>
> > ___
> > Mono-list maillist  -  mono-l...@lists.ximian.co...
>


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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Christopher David Howie]

On 08/10/2010 06:34 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote:
> No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.
> We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac
> etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
> mono team.

It is not the Mono project's job to cater to every existing Linux
distribution.  It's up to the distributions to package software for
themselves.

That is all.

(Also, I'm rather curious why you emailed me instead of the list,
especially when I was originally addressing the Nabble issues.)

-- 
Chris Howie
http://www.chrishowie.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers

If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document:
http://www.chrishowie.com/email-preferences/

PGP fingerprint: 2B7A B280 8B12 21CC 260A DF65 6FCE 505A CF83 38F5


IMPORTANT INFORMATION/DISCLAIMER

This document should be read only by those persons to whom it is
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to you and therefore you can read it.

Additionally, by sending an email to ANY of my addresses or to ANY
mailing lists to which I am subscribed, whether intentionally or
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Daniel Hughes]

No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu.
We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac
etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the
mono team.

That is all.

On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic wrote:

>  On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
>
>   I'll second the complaint about the forum constantly refreshing the
> browser. It's useless in Opera. I'm forced to use Firefox. It's completely
> baffling as to why they display it the way the do.
>
>
>  The developers should consider looking at Launchpad, as used by the
> Ubuntu forums, as a top-notch support site.
>
> I think the only reason Nabble is used is because it mirrors the mailing
> list effectively, but I don't know.
>
> --Bojan
>
> ___
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Christopher David Howie]

On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:
> I'll second the complaint about the forum constantly refreshing the
> browser. It's useless in Opera. I'm forced to use Firefox. It's
> completely baffling as to why they display it the way the do.

I think you guys both meant to bring this up here
, right?

-- 
Chris Howie
http://www.chrishowie.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers

If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document:
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PGP fingerprint: 2B7A B280 8B12 21CC 260A DF65 6FCE 505A CF83 38F5


IMPORTANT INFORMATION/DISCLAIMER

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to you and therefore you can read it.

Additionally, by sending an email to ANY of my addresses or to ANY
mailing lists to which I am subscribed, whether intentionally or
accidentally, you are agreeing that I am "the intended recipient," and
that I may do whatever I wish with the contents of any message received
from you, unless a pre-existing agreement prohibits me from so doing.

This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may
be included on your message.
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Bojan Rajkovic]

 On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote:


I'll second the complaint about the forum constantly refreshing the 
browser. It's useless in Opera. I'm forced to use Firefox. It's 
completely baffling as to why they display it the way the do.



The developers should consider looking at Launchpad, as used by the 
Ubuntu forums, as a top-notch support site.


I think the only reason Nabble is used is because it mirrors the mailing 
list effectively, but I don't know.


--Bojan
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Christopher Monroe]

I'll second the complaint about the forum constantly refreshing the browser. 
It's useless in Opera. I'm forced to use Firefox. It's completely baffling as 
to why they display it the way the do.
The developers should consider looking at Launchpad, as used by the Ubuntu 
forums, as a top-notch support site.

--- On Mon, 8/9/10, green  wrote:

From: green 
Subject: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
To: mono-list@lists.ximian.com
Received: Monday, August 9, 2010, 12:48 PM


why newer versions of mono cant be installed on ubuntu?
if a framework is done well(not modifying interfaces, existing functions,
etc), new releases would'nt break old applications.

another question, why the forum keeps refreshing all the time, also during
posting? its annoying.

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Ubuntu-tp2318791p2318791.html
Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu

[Bojan Rajkovic]

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:48 PM, green  wrote:

>
> why newer versions of mono cant be installed on ubuntu?
> if a framework is done well(not modifying interfaces, existing functions,
> etc), new releases would'nt break old applications.
>

Novell doesn't support Ubuntu, likely due to cost reasons--they'd pretty
much need to hire at least one more, maybe two more people to do
Debian-style packaging for Debian and Ubuntu. RPM-based distros like Red
Hat, etc. are easy, because they can modify SuSE .spec files as necessary.

This is not to say that updates to Mono can't be installed on Ubuntu. The
community packagers for Debbuntu do a good job of getting Mono releases out
shortly after the official release drops. You can find fairly up-to-date
releases for Ubuntu at http://badgerports.com, and Debian has up-to-date
releases in the experimental distribution. The reason that the official
Ubuntu repositories don't update faster is that Mono is a core framework,
and as such, requires extensive testing before it can be upgraded--due to
Ubuntu's policies, it's not likely that you'll ever see an updated Mono come
in through {distribution}-backports or any of the other update repos,
barring major security fixes, etc.


>
> another question, why the forum keeps refreshing all the time, also during
> posting? its annoying.
>

Nabble bug? Using the mailing list directly is much more convenient.


>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Ubuntu-tp2318791p2318791.html
> Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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[Mono-list] Ubuntu

[green]

why newer versions of mono cant be installed on ubuntu?
if a framework is done well(not modifying interfaces, existing functions,
etc), new releases would'nt break old applications.

another question, why the forum keeps refreshing all the time, also during
posting? its annoying.

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Ubuntu-tp2318791p2318791.html
Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu packaging

[Daniel Isenmann]

Am 04.03.2010 11:40, schrieb Daniel Hughes:
> Recently banshee turned on opt in statistic gathering, the first set
> of results are in, and it turns out that the overwhelming majority of
> Banshee users run it on Ubuntu. This possibly unexpected result is
> causing the banshee team to rethink their strategy regarding
> deployment to Ubuntu. Including the importance of providing same days
> packaging for ubuntu.
>
> Banshee/BuildVendor:
> Users:   519
> 292  : Ubuntu 9.10
> 51   : Ubuntu 9.10 c519a80
> 33   : source-tarball
> 25   : Banshee / openSUSE_11.2
> 22   : git-checkout
> 20   : banshee-project.org OSX 10.5+ i386/Intel
> 16   : Gentoo/banshee/1.5.4
> 14   : Ubuntu lucid (development branch) c519a80
> 7: Debian GNU/Linux unstable (sid)
> 6: Ubuntu 9.10 8fef2fb
> 4: Foresight Linux
> 4: Ubuntu 9.04
> 4: Ubuntu 9.10 0328ab7
> 4: Ubuntu 9.10 ffc9f0f
> 3: Ubuntu 9.10 424a345
> 3: Ubuntu 9.10 d885c99
> 2: ArchLinux
> 2: Banshee:Alpha / openSUSE_11.2
> 2: Ubuntu lucid (development branch) 8fef2fb
> 1: Fedora12-1.5.4-0.1.fc12.aa
> 1: Fedora12-1.5.4-1.fc12
> 1: Fedora13-1.5.4-1.fc13
> 1: Fedora14-1.5.4-1.fc14
>
> This is only a small sample size, and does not necessarily correlate
> to what operating systems mono is used on. However if it did would
> that cause the mono project to reconsider its decision to not provide
> packaging for Ubuntu?
>
> I know the reasons why mono does not provide ubuntu packaging have
> been discussed on this mailing list in the past. However would it make
> a differences if it turned out that most mono users ran ubuntu?
> ___
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>

Hi,
I think such numbers aren't much representative because most users 
doesn't send usage statistic. Regarding to our own stats generated from 
responses of 2034 users so far (the response is voluntary):

31,61% (642 users) have installed mono and
2,51% (51 users) have installed banshee

So you see that your number (2) is much different to ours (51). I know 
that this only represent that they have installed the package and it 
doesn't mean that all the people use it. But why should someone install 
a package if he doesn't use it. Furthermore the banshee package isn't 
required by any other package as dependency, so it was explicit 
installed by the user.

You can find the complete stats on the german website of Arch Linux: 
https://www.archlinux.de/?page=PackageStatistics

Cheers,
Daniel (mono maintainer of Arch Linux)
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[Mono-list] ubuntu packaging

[Daniel Hughes]

Recently banshee turned on opt in statistic gathering, the first set
of results are in, and it turns out that the overwhelming majority of
Banshee users run it on Ubuntu. This possibly unexpected result is
causing the banshee team to rethink their strategy regarding
deployment to Ubuntu. Including the importance of providing same days
packaging for ubuntu.

Banshee/BuildVendor:
   Users:   519
   292  : Ubuntu 9.10
   51   : Ubuntu 9.10 c519a80
   33   : source-tarball
   25   : Banshee / openSUSE_11.2
   22   : git-checkout
   20   : banshee-project.org OSX 10.5+ i386/Intel
   16   : Gentoo/banshee/1.5.4
   14   : Ubuntu lucid (development branch) c519a80
   7: Debian GNU/Linux unstable (sid)
   6: Ubuntu 9.10 8fef2fb
   4: Foresight Linux
   4: Ubuntu 9.04
   4: Ubuntu 9.10 0328ab7
   4: Ubuntu 9.10 ffc9f0f
   3: Ubuntu 9.10 424a345
   3: Ubuntu 9.10 d885c99
   2: ArchLinux
   2: Banshee:Alpha / openSUSE_11.2
   2: Ubuntu lucid (development branch) 8fef2fb
   1: Fedora12-1.5.4-0.1.fc12.aa
   1: Fedora12-1.5.4-1.fc12
   1: Fedora13-1.5.4-1.fc13
   1: Fedora14-1.5.4-1.fc14

This is only a small sample size, and does not necessarily correlate
to what operating systems mono is used on. However if it did would
that cause the mono project to reconsider its decision to not provide
packaging for Ubuntu?

I know the reasons why mono does not provide ubuntu packaging have
been discussed on this mailing list in the past. However would it make
a differences if it turned out that most mono users ran ubuntu?
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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu 8.04 GTK-Sharp Couldn't File in MonoDevelop IDE

[somepalli]

Michael Hutchinson wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:56 AM, somepalli  wrote:
>> Build the project completed successfully. but while Run the project i am
>> getting following error
>>
>> I am Ubuntu 8.04 User .
>> I installed Mono and Open the Mono develop then i designed with just
>> simple
>> design and I got success in
>> Build Project and Build Solution.
>> When i Run the Solution i got Below Message
>>
>> ** (/home/Csharp1/Csharp1/bin/Debug/Csharp1.exe:16310): WARNING **: Could
>> not load file or assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
>> PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies.
>>
>> Unhandled Exception: System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file
>> or
>> assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
>> PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies.
>> File name: 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
>> PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f'
> 
> It sounds to me like you have a messed up mono installation --
> probably Mono installed from source into /usr/local, with the
> distro-provided Mono in /usr. Is this the case?
> 
> -- 
> Michael Hutchinson
> http://mjhutchinson.com
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Thank you for reply
Ya.. its installation problem after your message i tried to
install build-essential package but i am not able to install  after
solving get back to the mono development. 

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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu 8.04 GTK-Sharp Couldn't File in MonoDevelop IDE

[Michael Hutchinson]

On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:56 AM, somepalli  wrote:
> Build the project completed successfully. but while Run the project i am
> getting following error
>
> I am Ubuntu 8.04 User .
> I installed Mono and Open the Mono develop then i designed with just simple
> design and I got success in
> Build Project and Build Solution.
> When i Run the Solution i got Below Message
>
> ** (/home/Csharp1/Csharp1/bin/Debug/Csharp1.exe:16310): WARNING **: Could
> not load file or assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
> PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies.
>
> Unhandled Exception: System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or
> assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
> PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies.
> File name: 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
> PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f'

It sounds to me like you have a messed up mono installation --
probably Mono installed from source into /usr/local, with the
distro-provided Mono in /usr. Is this the case?

-- 
Michael Hutchinson
http://mjhutchinson.com
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[Mono-list] Ubuntu 8.04 GTK-Sharp Couldn't File in MonoDevelop IDE

[somepalli]

Build the project completed successfully. but while Run the project i am
getting following error

I am Ubuntu 8.04 User .
I installed Mono and Open the Mono develop then i designed with just simple
design and I got success in
Build Project and Build Solution.
When i Run the Solution i got Below Message



** (/home/Csharp1/Csharp1/bin/Debug/Csharp1.exe:16310): WARNING **: Could
not load file or assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies.

Unhandled Exception: System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or
assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies.
File name: 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral,
PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f'


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Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu/Debian package

[Dan Smithers]

I have been trying to build from the mono-1.2.5.2.tar.bz2 on the go-mono
site and have discovered that the runtime directory is missing (the
equivalent 1.2.4 tarball has it) and configure won't run.
Can I copy the files from 1.2.4?
Is this a bug in the tarball?

thanks

dan

Dan Smithers wrote:
> I have just found that the version of mono distributed with ubuntu 7.04
> is 1.2.3 and with 7.10 1.2.4
> 
> I want to build the latest version as I have found a few issues that may
> be solved by this and would like some advice. Do I get the latest
> version as a tarball from www.go-mono.com or is there a svn repositry
> that I could connect to?
> Which packages do I need? Does mono-1.2.5.2.tar.bz work with the other
> packages installed or will I need to update GTK#?
> 
> When I get it going, what sort of tests would I need to do to validate
> it a submit it as an apt?
> 
> thanks
> 
> dan
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[Mono-list] Ubuntu/Debian package

[Dan Smithers]

I have just found that the version of mono distributed with ubuntu 7.04
is 1.2.3 and with 7.10 1.2.4

I want to build the latest version as I have found a few issues that may
be solved by this and would like some advice. Do I get the latest
version as a tarball from www.go-mono.com or is there a svn repositry
that I could connect to?
Which packages do I need? Does mono-1.2.5.2.tar.bz work with the other
packages installed or will I need to update GTK#?

When I get it going, what sort of tests would I need to do to validate
it a submit it as an apt?

thanks

dan
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