Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu user wants do see College videos that only works with Silverlight
I don't know if Moonlight can run Silverlight, but it's worth a try. http://www.maketecheasier.com/install-and-run-silverlight-in-linux/ -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Ubuntu-user-wants-do-see-College-videos-that-only-works-with-Silverlight-tp4665668p4665672.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu user wants do see College videos that only works with Silverlight
I`ve tried this: http://www.webupd8.org/2013/08/pipelight-use-silverlight-in-your-linux.html But it didn`t work. -- View this message in context: http://mono.1490590.n4.nabble.com/Ubuntu-user-wants-do-see-College-videos-that-only-works-with-Silverlight-tp4665668p4665669.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu 11.10 i386 mono and monodevelop packages
Actually, silly me, I've fixed that first bug already. You can run all the normal mono programs using the pmono script, eg $ pmono monodoc Happy coding! Ian -- I may have used dictation software to write this email, please excuse any confusing mistakes. Ian Norton ian.norton-bad...@thales-esecurity.com wrote: Hello All, For a while now I've seen people ask for binary packages of monodevelop and mono for ubuntu and at last I've been able to finally find time to get some made. The packages provide a parallel mono intstallation that won't conflict with the mono runtime installed by ubuntu. In the repository are everything needed by monodevelop to load, build and debug a gtk# program on ubuntu 11.10 (oneiric) Getting started --- Add the following line to your /etc/apt/sources.list file deb http://void.printf.net/~bredroll/pmono ./ Then: $ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-get install pmono-monodevelop pmono-scripts ## or just the following for core mono $ sudo apt-get install pmono-mono pmono-scripts ( you need to install addins before MD, first bug for me to fix ) Once all packages are downloaded and installed you have a full parallel mono install located in /opt/mono. Now all you need is to source the following script ( which I'll eventually add as a package ) before running mono or monodevelop. Eg: $ pmono bash $ mono --version $ monodevelop Included are everything needed to write a gtk# app using monodevelop 2.8.2. Given time, I'll update to the latest MD and latest mono packages when they come out. Anyone curious about how this works can have a look at the scripts here: https://github.com/inorton/mono-ubuntu-build Best Regards! Ian ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu 11.10 i386 mono and monodevelop packages
Darn.. the pmono-mono package missed about 200 files that make up the basic sdk.. MonoDevelop runs and can debug, but can't build anything.. stay tuned! On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 07:14:25PM +, Ian Norton wrote: Actually, silly me, I've fixed that first bug already. You can run all the normal mono programs using the pmono script, eg $ pmono monodoc Happy coding! Ian -- I may have used dictation software to write this email, please excuse any confusing mistakes. Ian Norton ian.norton-bad...@thales-esecurity.com wrote: Hello All, For a while now I've seen people ask for binary packages of monodevelop and mono for ubuntu and at last I've been able to finally find time to get some made. The packages provide a parallel mono intstallation that won't conflict with the mono runtime installed by ubuntu. In the repository are everything needed by monodevelop to load, build and debug a gtk# program on ubuntu 11.10 (oneiric) Getting started --- Add the following line to your /etc/apt/sources.list file deb http://void.printf.net/~bredroll/pmono ./ Then: $ sudo apt-get update $ sudo apt-get install pmono-monodevelop pmono-scripts ## or just the following for core mono $ sudo apt-get install pmono-mono pmono-scripts ( you need to install addins before MD, first bug for me to fix ) Once all packages are downloaded and installed you have a full parallel mono install located in /opt/mono. Now all you need is to source the following script ( which I'll eventually add as a package ) before running mono or monodevelop. Eg: $ pmono bash $ mono --version $ monodevelop Included are everything needed to write a gtk# app using monodevelop 2.8.2. Given time, I'll update to the latest MD and latest mono packages when they come out. Anyone curious about how this works can have a look at the scripts here: https://github.com/inorton/mono-ubuntu-build Best Regards! Ian ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu 11.10 configuration problem
I have the same problem with a custom compiled f-spot. Running it using mono --runtime=v4.0 f-spot.exe fixes it for me. The program should be compiled against framework 3.5 though. I haven't found a reason for that, but it seems to depend on Ubuntu's mono install. Joerg Am 04.11.2011 um 13:16 schrieb Ian Norton ian.norton-bad...@thales-esecurity.com: It could be that your program is compiled for .net 4.0 but your mono doesnt support it. On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 12:29:58AM +, Matthew Fleming wrote: Hi, I'm entirely new to mono so I'd really appreciate help with the following. I am trying to run OpenVista CIS, which is supposed to run with mono under Linux, on Ubuntu 11.10. I get the following errors: mfleming@mgf-desktop:~/openvista/openvistacis-0.9.96-client$ ./OpenVistaCIS.exe Missing method System.Reflection.Assembly::op_Equality(Assembly,Assembly) in assembly /usr/lib/mono/2.0/mscorlib.dll, referenced in assembly /usr/lib/mono/gac/gdk-sharp/2.12.0.0__35e10195dab3c99f/gdk-sharp.dll ---Initial Exception--- Method not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'. at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 ---Second Exception--- An exception was thrown by the type initializer for Nest at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.ShowUnhandledException (System.Exception ex) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'. at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 It appears to me that this is probably a problem with the way mono is configured in this Ubuntu distro, but I have no idea how to fix it. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Matthew Fleming ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu 11.10 configuration problem
It could be that your program is compiled for .net 4.0 but your mono doesnt support it. On Fri, Nov 04, 2011 at 12:29:58AM +, Matthew Fleming wrote: Hi, I'm entirely new to mono so I'd really appreciate help with the following. I am trying to run OpenVista CIS, which is supposed to run with mono under Linux, on Ubuntu 11.10. I get the following errors: mfleming@mgf-desktop:~/openvista/openvistacis-0.9.96-client$ ./OpenVistaCIS.exe Missing method System.Reflection.Assembly::op_Equality(Assembly,Assembly) in assembly /usr/lib/mono/2.0/mscorlib.dll, referenced in assembly /usr/lib/mono/gac/gdk-sharp/2.12.0.0__35e10195dab3c99f/gdk-sharp.dll ---Initial Exception--- Method not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'. at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 ---Second Exception--- An exception was thrown by the type initializer for Nest at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.ShowUnhandledException (System.Exception ex) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 [ERROR] FATAL UNHANDLED EXCEPTION: System.MissingMethodException: Method not found: 'System.Reflection.Assembly.op_Equality'. at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Run (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 at Medsphere.OpenVista.CIS.OVMain.Main (System.String[] args) [0x0] in filename unknown:0 It appears to me that this is probably a problem with the way mono is configured in this Ubuntu distro, but I have no idea how to fix it. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Matthew Fleming ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
I guess this could be addressed with current Debian/Ubuntu mono packagers, who would be more knowledgeable on both technical and process details. On Sat, May 21, 2011 at 12:24 PM, NokNok Developer develo...@noknok.net wrote: Ok, I will bite. Lets say we were willing to sponsor such an effort, are there folks who would be willing to act as the maintainers? Keeping distribution in line with the current stable / beta / dev efforts ? I'd be willing to listen to ideas/proposals, its not just the money aspect, but also servers, download cdn, the organization and expectations. Shawn On 5/21/2011 11:14 AM, Ian Norton wrote: Ive just been trying out the 2.10 debian packages, good so far except its only moonlight 2 so I built my own from trunk again Victor Rocharocha.pu...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if someone in this list has any experience in fund-raising for open-source projects... well I´m certain there is someone. Being Ubuntu such a popular distro, and being .NET such a popular framework, mono for Ubuntu could perhaps make some company think of sparing some bucks for it, for its own user, or for the publicity value of it. I mean, some hundreds man-hours account to a few thousand dollars, maybe it could be a justifiable effort for Google Summer of Code, Canonical itself, or one of these new crowdsourcing portals. well, just my $0.015 :-D greets On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Thomas Mayertho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have to migrate their infrastructure etc. Just my $0.02, Thomas -- When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge. (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Ive just been trying out the 2.10 debian packages, good so far except its only moonlight 2 so I built my own from trunk again Victor Rocha rocha.pu...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if someone in this list has any experience in fund-raising for open-source projects... well I´m certain there is someone. Being Ubuntu such a popular distro, and being .NET such a popular framework, mono for Ubuntu could perhaps make some company think of sparing some bucks for it, for its own user, or for the publicity value of it. I mean, some hundreds man-hours account to a few thousand dollars, maybe it could be a justifiable effort for Google Summer of Code, Canonical itself, or one of these new crowdsourcing portals. well, just my $0.015 :-D greets On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Thomas Mayer tho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have to migrate their infrastructure etc. Just my $0.02, Thomas -- When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge. (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Ok, I will bite. Lets say we were willing to sponsor such an effort, are there folks who would be willing to act as the maintainers? Keeping distribution in line with the current stable / beta / dev efforts ? I'd be willing to listen to ideas/proposals, its not just the money aspect, but also servers, download cdn, the organization and expectations. Shawn On 5/21/2011 11:14 AM, Ian Norton wrote: Ive just been trying out the 2.10 debian packages, good so far except its only moonlight 2 so I built my own from trunk again Victor Rocharocha.pu...@gmail.com wrote: I wonder if someone in this list has any experience in fund-raising for open-source projects... well I´m certain there is someone. Being Ubuntu such a popular distro, and being .NET such a popular framework, mono for Ubuntu could perhaps make some company think of sparing some bucks for it, for its own user, or for the publicity value of it. I mean, some hundreds man-hours account to a few thousand dollars, maybe it could be a justifiable effort for Google Summer of Code, Canonical itself, or one of these new crowdsourcing portals. well, just my $0.015 :-D greets On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:04 PM, Thomas Mayertho...@residuum.org wrote: Hi, I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have to migrate their infrastructure etc. Just my $0.02, Thomas -- When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge. (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Actually, I agree with Daniel, I think he is being both reasonable and forward thinking. There is an opportunity now to broaden Mono’s usage via Ubuntu. If Java can be deployed seamlessly across platforms why can’t Mono? On Ubuntu 10.10 we can install parallel versions of Mono, but we can’t expect the end users to set up parallel environments just to run our applications. The differences between Mono 2.10 and 2.6.7 are significant enough that as a developer you either drop Ubuntu as a target or you code large portions of your application for the lowest common denominator (2.6.7) – which is frustrating. Ubuntu’s acceptance of key Mono desktop projects has demonstrated that Mono has a lot to offer, and with Ubuntu being the best Linux experience (in my opinion) this is a really good opportunity that’s worth exploring. Everybody is grateful for the efforts of Mirco Bauer and Jo Shields. Daniel is just asking the question, and I think it is a good question worth investigating. From: Bojan Rajkovic Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:24 PM To: mono-list Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future. However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead supports ubuntu. This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger user base. This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the Mono team members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team for Debian. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide slide.o@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out. On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I looking for upto date packages, Im still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages. So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three later. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst mon...@jpobst.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan —Bojan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Firstly, packages are already available for debian which means ubuntu ones shouldn't be much longer. http://www.meebey.net/posts/the_big_split_mono_2.10_debian_packaging/ Secondly, there are many reasons why debian packages take longer than opensuse packages. It mostly boils down to debian policy. It would take between 5 and 10 hours to give debian a set of mono package similar to what is provided to opensuse, however this won't be acceptable. Debian has its policies for good reason and if you don't agree with them it should be raised with debian. See http://pkg-mono.alioth.debian.org/ for more details. What it boils down to is that packaging mono for debian/ubuntu takes dozens (hundreds?) of man hours. Packaging for opensuse takes a handful. It is unlikely that xamarin will duplicate the great work done by Jo Shields and Mirco Bauer in the near future (though this is speculation) simply due to the huge effort this would require. It'd take far longer than doing all the opensuse, windows and mac packages which they take care of. Jo and Mirco will get you a modern mono as fast as is humanly possible. If it's not fast enough, I'm sure they'd welcome help :) Alan On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:28 AM, David Harper dahar...@hotmail.com wrote: Actually, I agree with Daniel, I think he is being both reasonable and forward thinking. There is an opportunity now to broaden Mono’s usage via Ubuntu. If Java can be deployed seamlessly across platforms why can’t Mono? On Ubuntu 10.10 we can install parallel versions of Mono, but we can’t expect the end users to set up parallel environments just to run our applications. The differences between Mono 2.10 and 2.6.7 are significant enough that as a developer you either drop Ubuntu as a target or you code large portions of your application for the lowest common denominator (2.6.7) – which is frustrating. Ubuntu’s acceptance of key Mono desktop projects has demonstrated that Mono has a lot to offer, and with Ubuntu being the best Linux experience (in my opinion) this is a really good opportunity that’s worth exploring. Everybody is grateful for the efforts of Mirco Bauer and Jo Shields. Daniel is just asking the question, and I think it is a good question worth investigating. From: Bojan Rajkovic Sent: Tuesday, May 17, 2011 12:24 PM To: mono-list Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future. However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead supports ubuntu. This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger user base. This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the Mono team members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team for Debian. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide slide.o@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out. On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I looking for upto date packages, Im still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages. So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three later. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst mon...@jpobst.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan —Bojan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 21:43, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future. However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead supports ubuntu. This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger user base. I don't think you fully understand what you are asking for. Having done both RPM and DEB packaging I'll take RPM (both openSUSE and fedora) packaging especially in OBS (OpenSUSE Build Service) any day over debian packaging. In fact, if the debian guys don't pick up the packages I put together I'll most likely not support ubuntu. Just isn't worth my extremely limited free time that I have. Ignoring the large amount of complexity that comes with packaging for debian/ubuntu, they package mono differently than on openSUSE and even fedora for that matter. Add in all of the different components, this isn't about just packaging mono. Its about all of the packaging that are required/connected to mono. They are generating and packaging an entire developer platform/ecosystem not just some libraries. Its very impressive what these guys do. It'd be unfair to not mention the amount of time that ajorg puts into all of this. Cheers, Stephen PS. As an openSUSE user (Disclaimer) I'd be sad to see the support drop. What strikes me as odd is your request to drop support for an entire distro and its users. Coming from someone that is writing a bible study application that doesn't seem very christian. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 22:54, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system from the company which has treated them so badly? Just to clarify, it wasn't openSUSE or SUSE that laid off the mono team. And to be technical, it wasn't Novell either. In case you missed it, Attachemate recently bought Novell, split SUSE off and canned the mono team. Since you mention Attachemate one would have to ask if your are just trolling at this point? Cheers, Stephen ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Hi Stephen, I apologize, I lacked clarity in my previous post. The Ubuntu issue mentioned by Daniel is a real problem, we're always versions behind and it's frustrating. In light of the recent changes, it is worth considering if an opportunity existed to address some of these issues. It would be great to have the ability to install the latest Mono across multiple platforms, ie. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Windows, etc. Bringing Mono up to date in Ubuntu would be awesome, for Mono and for Ubuntu. From the feedback to Daniel's initial post, it has been made manifest to me that there is a lot more work that goes into the packaging of Mono than I realized, and there are other issues such as distribution policies, application installation base compatibilities, etc. I am very grateful to you and everybody else who makes Mono available to us. -Original Message- From: Stephen Shaw Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 12:34 AM To: Daniel Hughes Cc: mono-list Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 22:54, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system from the company which has treated them so badly? Just to clarify, it wasn't openSUSE or SUSE that laid off the mono team. And to be technical, it wasn't Novell either. In case you missed it, Attachemate recently bought Novell, split SUSE off and canned the mono team. Since you mention Attachemate one would have to ask if your are just trolling at this point? Cheers, Stephen ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:58, David Harper dahar...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Stephen, I apologize, I lacked clarity in my previous post. The Ubuntu issue mentioned by Daniel is a real problem, we're always versions behind and it's frustrating. In light of the recent changes, it is worth considering if an opportunity existed to address some of these issues. It would be great to have the ability to install the latest Mono across multiple platforms, ie. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Windows, etc. Bringing Mono up to date in Ubuntu would be awesome, for Mono and for Ubuntu. From the feedback to Daniel's initial post, it has been made manifest to me that there is a lot more work that goes into the packaging of Mono than I realized, and there are other issues such as distribution policies, application installation base compatibilities, etc. I am very grateful to you and everybody else who makes Mono available to us. I'm not sure anyone truly understands all the effort especially the initial effort it takes to get stuff packaged and pushed out :) Even though I'm not a debian/ubuntu user I think it would be great to have mono up to date on there as well. You can ask meebey and directhex, I've bugged them enough :) It certainly makes packaging easier with the latest stuff. That has been one of the biggest headaches for me and the packages I was trying to package on ubuntu. Not to mention the policy stuff. It took me longer to get the debian licensing stuff done than it took me to package my stuff on openSUSE and fedora. Cheers, Stephen ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
I'm not sure anyone truly understands all the effort especially the initial effort it takes to get stuff packaged and pushed out I could only imagine, I prefer to develop software as I have the advantage of being able to copy other peoples code :) Let's hope the guys who lost their jobs are doing okay, it's not a good time to be looking for work... Thanks a million again to you, meebey, directhex and everybody else's efforts to make Mono available. -Original Message- From: Stephen Shaw Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 1:06 AM To: David Harper Cc: Daniel Hughes ; mono-list Subject: Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 10:58, David Harper dahar...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Stephen, I apologize, I lacked clarity in my previous post. The Ubuntu issue mentioned by Daniel is a real problem, we're always versions behind and it's frustrating. In light of the recent changes, it is worth considering if an opportunity existed to address some of these issues. It would be great to have the ability to install the latest Mono across multiple platforms, ie. Ubuntu, OpenSUSE, Windows, etc. Bringing Mono up to date in Ubuntu would be awesome, for Mono and for Ubuntu. From the feedback to Daniel's initial post, it has been made manifest to me that there is a lot more work that goes into the packaging of Mono than I realized, and there are other issues such as distribution policies, application installation base compatibilities, etc. I am very grateful to you and everybody else who makes Mono available to us. I'm not sure anyone truly understands all the effort especially the initial effort it takes to get stuff packaged and pushed out :) Even though I'm not a debian/ubuntu user I think it would be great to have mono up to date on there as well. You can ask meebey and directhex, I've bugged them enough :) It certainly makes packaging easier with the latest stuff. That has been one of the biggest headaches for me and the packages I was trying to package on ubuntu. Not to mention the policy stuff. It took me longer to get the debian licensing stuff done than it took me to package my stuff on openSUSE and fedora. Cheers, Stephen ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Hi, I just wanted to add, that the guys and girls at Xamarin now have different priorities than to decide whether or not to change their default packaging system. They have to build a running business, have to migrate their infrastructure etc. Just my $0.02, Thomas -- When one's home has a really excellent computer capable of reaching other computers anywhere in the Galaxy, one scarcely needs to budge. (Janov Pelorat in: Isaac Asimov - Foundation's Edge) http://www.residuum.org/ ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Now that Novell has been purchased by Attachmate and has laid off its mono developers. And a new mono company xamarin has been started which is not associated with open suse. Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? This is certainly a possibility, but I can tell you the sad reality of it. The novell team was already overloaded during releases before the Attachmate layoffs and it's not likely this will improve in the immediate future so the only way to make sure it will happen is if the ubuntu community step up and help. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
The other reality is the team seems to mostly prefer Mac OS X now. On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:58 PM, Rodrigo Kumpera kump...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 10:45 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Now that Novell has been purchased by Attachmate and has laid off its mono developers. And a new mono company xamarin has been started which is not associated with open suse. Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? This is certainly a possibility, but I can tell you the sad reality of it. The novell team was already overloaded during releases before the Attachmate layoffs and it's not likely this will improve in the immediate future so the only way to make sure it will happen is if the ubuntu community step up and help. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
I looking for upto date packages, Im still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages. So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three later. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst mon...@jpobst.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future. However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead supports ubuntu. This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger user base. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide slide.o@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out. On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I looking for upto date packages, Im still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages. So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three later. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst mon...@jpobst.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future. However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead supports ubuntu. This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger user base. This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the Mono team members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team for Debian. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide slide.o@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out. On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I looking for upto date packages, Im still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages. So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three later. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst mon...@jpobst.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan —Bojan___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system from the company which has treated them so badly? I guess only time will tell. By the way I want to say a big thanks for the work that Mirco Bauer (meebey) and Jo Shields (directhex) does, I have thanked directhex many times myself. The sad state of mono on ubuntu is not there fault they do an amazing job considering that there is only two of them and they work unpaid in there spare time. I also want to say a big thank you to the mono team for producing such an great product, and I wish you the best of luck for the future. Yes I might moan and complain about how out of date mono is on ubuntu, but I really to appreciate the work you guys do. It has made developing Wide Margin a breeze. Cheers, Daniel On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.comwrote: On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future. However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead supports ubuntu. This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger user base. This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the Mono team members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team for Debian. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide slide.o@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out. On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I looking for upto date packages, Im still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages. So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three later. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst mon...@jpobst.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan —Bojan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu support
Just in case anyone cares about the numbers. The stats from Wikimedia (think Wikipedia users) for market share are as follows: Ubuntu: 0.72% market share Open SUSE: 0.05% of market share So ubuntu has 14 times more users then Open SUSE. That's an order of magnitude more users! http://stats.wikimedia.org/archive/squid_reports/2011-03/SquidReportOperatingSystems.htm The mono project can continue to ignore these numbers and pretend they will go away. Or embrace the opportunity that these numbers represent. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: How many of the mono team will want to continue to use an operation system from the company which has treated them so badly? I guess only time will tell. By the way I want to say a big thanks for the work that Mirco Bauer (meebey) and Jo Shields (directhex) does, I have thanked directhex many times myself. The sad state of mono on ubuntu is not there fault they do an amazing job considering that there is only two of them and they work unpaid in there spare time. I also want to say a big thank you to the mono team for producing such an great product, and I wish you the best of luck for the future. Yes I might moan and complain about how out of date mono is on ubuntu, but I really to appreciate the work you guys do. It has made developing Wide Margin a breeze. Cheers, Daniel On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.comwrote: On May 16, 2011, at 11:43 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Currently all my volunteer time is going into Wide Margin. And I foresee it taking up all my time in the near future. However my suggestion is that the mono project drops open suse and instead supports ubuntu. This would require no extra effort. And would get the latest mono to a larger user base. This is where you're wrong—it would require extra effort. Not many of the Mono team members use Ubuntu (or any Debian-derivative, which means learning a whole new set of package management/building tools), and as Jon already pointed out, there are a very talented set of Debian packagers who do a much better job of making available proper packages for Debian and Debian derivatives than the Mono team ever could. There are better things for the newly-minted Xamarin team to focus on than duplicating work that is already done by two able and willing hands. If you want up-to-date Ubuntu packages, donate some cash or better yet, some time to either Mirco Bauer (meebey) or Jo Shields (directhex), who comprise the Mono packaging tag-team for Debian. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:30 PM, Slide slide.o@gmail.com wrote: I'm sure no one would mind if you volunteered to help out. On May 16, 2011 7:36 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I looking for upto date packages, Im still waiting for 2.8 packages and 2.10 packages. So what I'm looking for is when a new version of mono is released on the same day the new Ubuntu packages are available. Not a year or two or three later. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Jonathan Pobst mon...@jpobst.com wrote: On 5/16/2011 8:45 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Can we expect official ubuntu support going forward? How do you define official ubuntu support? The community has excellent Ubuntu packagers who know the best way to package Mono for Ubuntu, and submit these packages for inclusion in the official Ubuntu releases. So the short of it is: Mono is already packaged and included in Ubuntu. What more than that would you like to see? Jonathan —Bojan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I totally concur with this, and anyway, when someone in the thread said that most Mono users actually come from the usage of Mono applications in Ubuntu, that doesn't mean that the Mono team providing Ubuntu packages would target more users. Why? Because you have to remember that F-Spot (at least) comes by default in Ubuntu, thus Ubuntu comes with all the necessary things to run Mono apps by default. Providing packages would only be for the *advanced* user that installs updated versions of mono apps. Regards, Andres El 12/08/10 03:14, Andreia Gaita escribió: On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works in linux distributions, which is why you're not getting the explanations that have been put forth already. The developer of the application provides the code, and the distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3) they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other reasons, as miguel explained earlier. We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer, there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your system with little effort. You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy is a topic for other mailing lists, I think. andreia gaita ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
El 12/08/10 03:24, Daniel Hughes escribió: Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. If they don't do, and that means that Mono apps (included by default, such as F-Spot) have bugs or even cannot compile, they will be forced to do it. Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. Not users, *advanced users*. Normal users just install the CD/DVD, and never update packages except security updates, until they `order` the next set of CD/DVDs when the new Ubuntu version comes out. This is the way it is and this discussion shows that it will not change. Thank you all for explaining this to me. I see no reason for any further discussion here. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andreia Gaita shana.u...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works in linux distributions, which is why you're not getting the explanations that have been put forth already. The developer of the application provides the code, and the distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3) they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other reasons, as miguel explained earlier. We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer, there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your system with little effort. You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy is a topic for other mailing lists, I think. andreia gaita ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Yes, and I think that is part of the problem which is based on the way ubuntu is run. Ubuntu updates are (normally) bug fixes only. New release are not picked up until the next OS release. They can mostly get away with this because they release every 6 months. The standard procedure for a ubuntu user wanting a newer version of a application is to use a PPA. I believe that in the next version of ubuntu this is all changing. To make it much easier to update application which should help the situation. More info is available here: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/06/latest-app-releases-to-be-made.html I'm not sure exactly how this will effect mono. Maybe someone here can comment. 2010/8/13 Andrés G. Aragoneses kno...@gmail.com: El 12/08/10 03:24, Daniel Hughes escribió: Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. If they don't do, and that means that Mono apps (included by default, such as F-Spot) have bugs or even cannot compile, they will be forced to do it. Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. Not users, *advanced users*. Normal users just install the CD/DVD, and never update packages except security updates, until they `order` the next set of CD/DVDs when the new Ubuntu version comes out. This is the way it is and this discussion shows that it will not change. Thank you all for explaining this to me. I see no reason for any further discussion here. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andreia Gaita shana.u...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works in linux distributions, which is why you're not getting the explanations that have been put forth already. The developer of the application provides the code, and the distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3) they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other reasons, as miguel explained earlier. We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer, there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your system with little effort. You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy is a topic for other mailing lists, I think. andreia gaita ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the big middle finger. Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default. And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class support. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in gmail replies to the sender not the list.) On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Hello, You have a couple of options here: (a) Step up and participate in your favorite distribution packaging effort (b) Raise funds to fund the salary for someone to maintain the packages on a continuous basis (c) Wait for the existing Debian/Ubuntu team to package the software for you (d) Use a distribution that we provide packages for (e) Lobby your favorite distribution to pay developers to ensure that Mono packages are packaged and delivered promptly. If you want to do (a), there is a mailing list for this: http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-packagers-list Mono ships source code, and as a service, we consider where we need to fill in the gaps. We considered both Windows and Mac important platforms to target due to the users on those platforms and the fact that the chances are low that someone from that community would step up to do the work. Ubuntu, Debian, and various BSD have motivated maintainers that follow their relevant policies and are more knowledgeable of the procedures to get the software properly distributed for those platforms than we do. Miguel On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 6:54 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the big middle finger. Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default. And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class support. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in gmail replies to the sender not the list.) On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I think you are arguing against The Linux Way TM. Here are some other programming language download pages: GCC: http://gcc.gnu.org/install/binaries.html PHP: http://php.net/downloads.php Java: http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp Python: http://www.python.org/download/ You will note that not a single one of them offers Ubuntu (or any other Linux) packages, and most of them provide Windows and Mac installers. If you want to use a newer version of Mono or any of these other languages than what your distro provides, you follow The Linux Way, which is to download the tarball and build it yourself. Jonathan On 8/11/2010 5:54 AM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the big middle finger. Microsoft and Apple do not package mono or include mono by default. And mono thanks them for this by providing them with first class support. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. (I sent the email to the sender by mistake because the reply button in gmail replies to the sender not the list.) On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:57 PM, Bojan Rajkovicseveredcr...@gmail.com wrote: Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughestramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovicseveredcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Hello, If you want to use a newer version of Mono or any of these other languages than what your distro provides, you follow The Linux Way, which is to download the tarball and build it yourself. There is a little bit of rationale behind this that has escaped the discussion, and Jonathan's list of languages reminded me of this. The reason why runtimes, compilers and other pieces of infrastructure tend to not be packaged is because the code could break existing code in the distribution. Some reasons include: * Distribution makes changes to the software to suit their design * Distribution applies specific patches for bugs that were reported to them, but the fixes were not upstreamed * Distributions applies patches for features that improve the integration on their system * Quality assurance and system tests You will notice that the distributions that we support are either those that we actually maintain Mono for, so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default, and where we install Mono on a separate directory (our own SLES and RHEL/CentOS, MacOS, Windows). Miguel ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is definitely worth a listen. Here is the link http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/07/21/s03e12-the-country-fair/ Ubuntu is one of the most mono accepting non novell distros out there in terms of what mono applications they include by default, but what we get from mono team amounts to a slap in the face. Does windows include mono applications by default? no. Does apple? no. Does ubuntu? yes. So how does mono thank ubuntu for its support? by giving it the
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux distro. Linux distro are not important to the mono team. Closed operating systems are much more important. Even if people don't use mono on those closed systems. The exception is openuses which just so happens to be funded by Novell interesting how that works I just finished lessening to the ubuntu uk podcast in which they interview Jo Shields aka directhex (the guy who maintains the badgerports PPA) and what he says about mono on ubuntu is quite interesting and is
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the offical ubuntu PPA. However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the download page. The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made and that it was stable. It that was to happen I would be a happy man :) (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again) On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu st...@free.fr wrote: I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft to make mono work on windows? What about Mac how much effort does the mono team spend making mono run on Mac isn't that the responsibility of Apple? So it's not about user base. The has been as must as stated on here that its because ubuntu is linux. So the mono team doesn't support ubuntu because its a linux
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
@miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder if someone should tell them.. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the offical ubuntu PPA. However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the download page. The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made and that it was stable. It that was to happen I would be a happy man :) (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again) On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu st...@free.fr wrote: I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves go-mono.com (and its aliases), but hosting a PPA or equivalent at go-mono, that involves ..? This reminds me of packman from when i used opensuse. It is listed on the opensuse site, so one get the official feeling, as apposed to just a repo added from some domain that technically could be (but usual unlikely) rogue. So putting aside the question of where the effort comes from for better ubuntu/mint support assuming its there, where can the PPA officially be housed for the paranoid (and rightfully so) consumer? Also, in it being officially housed, it also then benefits by that exposure, that is it has become official, its were people will naturally look for it, which has brought us around full circle. tl On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 22:54:37 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Does the latest mono develop work on the version of mono shipped with ubuntu 10.04? no Does the latest mono develop work with the version of mono shipped with ubuntu? yes Your argument would hold up if the above was not the cause, the problem is that mono is moving far to fast for that approach to be viable. So mono develop has added badger ports to their download page. (its a PPA for people follow this thread) but its not supported by the mono team like on windows and mac and opensuse. Do you realize that ubuntu has more mono users then those other supported operating systems. The banshee usage stats prove this. Windows has first class support and yet no one uses mono on windows because .net is faster and more stable. Even mono develop for windows runs on .net and not on mono. How much effort does the mono team go to create mono installers for windows? isn't that the responsibility of Microsoft
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
After looking at the go-mono.com site closer, I would suggest the following: On download page, there is a other (linux tm image) link/button, that then bring up another line of 2. Mono for Unsupported or Community-Supported Distribution Novell does not offer support for your distribution. A number of distributions are supported by their own communities instead. Please select your platform below: Debian Ubuntu Other -- I would propose (dealing just with Ubuntu in this discussion) have Ubuntu listed as Community-Supported, and not tied to the Unsupported banner. As well, have it always display (rather then switched into the page only when the other is selected). Also perhaps adding in Ubuntu derived i.e. Mint, Kubuntu, etc. as a further descriptor under the link. Then when it goes to the Ubuntu specific page, all the warnings and explanation can stay. It then forwards off to badgerports.org, where I would suggest (to Joe), that this become more of an official page (or change the domain and create new site, i.e. go-mono-ubuntu.com, etc). This all under the condition the effort/results meets the mono community definition of a Community-Supported distro. I am not sure what that condition is however, but I assume it has to do with showing a history of support from member of the community, and that it generally works. Assuming this could happen, it then leaves the questions of who does this distro package (Joe should get help) [ I'd love to help, and I assume there are others], and, how is the badgerports (or new) domain funded/hosted (does the mono community as a whole, and/or Novell help with this)? Maybe this could be hosted off of the Mint domain as well, probably should be hosted at two places for redundancy. Just my 0.02 tl On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 09:32:52 +1200 Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: I think mono should adopt the Jo Shields badgerports PPA as the offical ubuntu PPA. However in my mind this would involve more then just putting it on the download page. The mono team would have to make commitment to working with Jo to ensure that it was available from day one when a new release is made and that it was stable. It that was to happen I would be a happy man :) (sorry stifu I sent it to you instead of the list ... again) On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:19 AM, Stifu st...@free.fr wrote: I know Jo Shields (http://apebox.org/wordpress/) has is packaging Mono for Ubuntu. However, he may suffer from not having enough exposure, as people keep asking where to find the latest Mono release for Ubuntu. Wouldn't the solution simply be for the Mono download page to have a link to Jo's builds? The only problem I can think of is small delays before they're ready, compared to the other builds. ted leslie wrote: I had the same questions you had. I am a Mint user (the 4 largest OS in world, after ubuntu, OSX, Win32), and Mint is very pro user experience out of the box, and given were it is authored, it has lessor issue with licensing/patents and such. They actually have had (if I remember correctly) moonlight installed out of the box, in addition to codec's and such that are not normally on other distros. I did find Joe's badger ports and it does the trick for me. I also am hoping I can assist in that effort in some way, as I am glued to Mint. I understand your issues/concerns and also the other side as well (see Miguel's and other posts). It really can be seen as a marketing trade off. It costs to create these and support them, BUT I can't help thinking that investing the time better supporting Mint/Ubuntu, that it would (but only a guess) pay off by bringing more people into the community, there by getting a huge return on investment, one that makes it self sufficient. So to that end I do see it as odd. However, there needs to be community, and free contribution to the efforts, and hopefully, ideally, that can handle the task (in the case of Mint/Ubuntu). The other side of looking at it is, with Mint/Ubuntu being so huge, and statistically speaking, should generate a large pool of free resource to look after the task of its own repos for Mono. This brings me to another question. Suppose a combination of resources can build the Ubuntu/Mint packages (solid builds as they progress, even some targeted just for developers with the latest and greatest). It helps to have the packages (PPA) come from some place official. I know about badger ports, I trust it, so I install from it, but thats just me. It seems to me that from the trust aspect, to cater to the most paranoid, doesn't the PPA have to (should) come from go-mono.com, or the domain of the distro? It may not always be possible to hang it off the disto's domain, so that leaves
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I know that is a bit offtopic, but I think that for Ubuntu users, isn't too hard install lastest versions of Mono compiling it from tarball. There are some guides and tutorials that explain in detail step by step the installation, and it explains all dependencies that must be satisfied previously if you want to install Mono in a fresh installation of Ubuntu. In mi case, I use Ubuntu 10.04 and I enjoy Mono 2.6.7 with Monodevelop 2.4 (and Moonlight 2.0 SDK), both compiled from tarball. Maybe, an alternative, is to publish an official guide that explain how to install Mono compiling from tarball in a fresh installation of a Linux distribution, so that everyone that wants to install Mono from tarball in his favorite Linux distribution, can do as easily as possible. Daniel Soto... I'm other :-) 2010/8/11 Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com @miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder if someone should tell them.. I can not comment as the above sentence turned out to be impossible to parse. You might want to clarify, unless you are trolling, in which case, dont bother. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. Was I trolling? maybe. This is born from frustration. In which case I apologize and will attempt to be more constructive. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com wrote: @miguel By the way what I'm taking from your comments is that if ubuntu was to refuse to package mono and include default mono applications mono support for ubuntu would actually improve. I wonder if someone should tell them.. I can not comment as the above sentence turned out to be impossible to parse. You might want to clarify, unless you are trolling, in which case, dont bother. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works in linux distributions, which is why you're not getting the explanations that have been put forth already. The developer of the application provides the code, and the distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3) they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other reasons, as miguel explained earlier. We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer, there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your system with little effort. You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy is a topic for other mailing lists, I think. andreia gaita ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. This is the way it is and this discussion shows that it will not change. Thank you all for explaining this to me. I see no reason for any further discussion here. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:14 PM, Andreia Gaita shana.u...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 12:38 AM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. I could be wrong, but I think you don't understand how packaging works in linux distributions, which is why you're not getting the explanations that have been put forth already. The developer of the application provides the code, and the distribution packages it. Each distro has their own rules and software for packaging, as well as package mantainers and their own schedule for providing new versions of packages. If a distro chooses to not update a package to a more current version, it can be because of many things: 1) they have custom patches that need porting 2) they prefer not to touch system packages until the next major distro release 3) they have long qa/approval cycles for updates 4) a million other reasons, as miguel explained earlier. We do the best we can supporting OSs and distros that don't have package maintainers (or not even a concept of that) or where we're the maintainers ourselves. We're not the Debian or Ubuntu maintainers. Go look at the homepages of pretty much any software available on Ubuntu and note that they don't provide packages, just tarballs. That's how things work in the Linux world. I think we all understand your frustration about this, but insisting on it when everyone has explained it to you repeatedly is not going to make it happen any differently. Ubuntu is extremely well supported, it's dead easy to compile your own Mono if you want, you can use Jo's PPA if you prefer, there's basically a bunch of different ways to update Mono on your system with little effort. You might not like how the Linux packaging process works, but that's how it is, and discussing the pros and cons of particular philosophy is a topic for other mailing lists, I think. andreia gaita ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On 08/11/2010 09:24 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. It's their responsibility to update *all* of their packages between OS releases. If they don't, then they presumably had a reason not to. It's kinda hard for them not to take responsibility for the packages they ship ;-) Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. Jo (aka Directhex) is the guy that packages Mono for Ubuntu proper, so his PPA isn't really third party. Hope that helps, Jeff ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
By the way I use Jo's PPA (bandger ports). I can highly recommend it to anyone out there trying to run the latest mono develop. Or who needs bug fixes or performance improvements from new mono releases. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 1:49 PM, Jeffrey Stedfast f...@novell.com wrote: On 08/11/2010 09:24 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: Ubuntu does not believe it is its responsibility to update mono between OS releases. It's their responsibility to update *all* of their packages between OS releases. If they don't, then they presumably had a reason not to. It's kinda hard for them not to take responsibility for the packages they ship ;-) Mono does not believe it is its responsibility to provide ubuntu packages for new mono releases. Users fall into a gap between the two. And must compile from source or use unsupported third party PPA's if and when they are available. Jo (aka Directhex) is the guy that packages Mono for Ubuntu proper, so his PPA isn't really third party. Hope that helps, Jeff ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. You are quoting without the rest of the context, you are setting up a straw man and then you attempt to bring it down. It is also trivial to debunk your thesis. Fedora does not ship Mono by default, and we do not package it for Fedora either. The Fedora packages are maintained by the community. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
I understand and apologize. On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:35 PM, Miguel de Icaza mig...@novell.com wrote: Quote so my team plays a double role there (OpenSUSE) or distributions where Mono is not included by default So if ubuntu did not support mono by including it by default. Then you would package it. Ubuntu would get first class support from the mono team. We would get new versions of mono as they are released and so mono support on ubuntu would be improved. You are quoting without the rest of the context, you are setting up a straw man and then you attempt to bring it down. It is also trivial to debunk your thesis. Fedora does not ship Mono by default, and we do not package it for Fedora either. The Fedora packages are maintained by the community. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the forum constantly refreshing the browser. It's useless in Opera. I'm forced to use Firefox. It's completely baffling as to why they display it the way the do. The developers should consider looking at Launchpad, as used by the Ubuntu forums, as a top-notch support site. I think the only reason Nabble is used is because it mirrors the mailing list effectively, but I don't know. --Bojan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the forum constantly refreshing the browser. It's useless in Opera. I'm forced to use Firefox. It's completely baffling as to why they display it the way the do. I think you guys both meant to bring this up here http://nabble-support.1.n2.nabble.com/, right? -- Chris Howie http://www.chrishowie.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document: http://www.chrishowie.com/email-preferences/ PGP fingerprint: 2B7A B280 8B12 21CC 260A DF65 6FCE 505A CF83 38F5 IMPORTANT INFORMATION/DISCLAIMER This document should be read only by those persons to whom it is addressed. If you have received this message it was obviously addressed to you and therefore you can read it. Additionally, by sending an email to ANY of my addresses or to ANY mailing lists to which I am subscribed, whether intentionally or accidentally, you are agreeing that I am the intended recipient, and that I may do whatever I wish with the contents of any message received from you, unless a pre-existing agreement prohibits me from so doing. This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may be included on your message. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.comwrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the forum constantly refreshing the browser. It's useless in Opera. I'm forced to use Firefox. It's completely baffling as to why they display it the way the do. The developers should consider looking at Launchpad, as used by the Ubuntu forums, as a top-notch support site. I think the only reason Nabble is used is because it mirrors the mailing list effectively, but I don't know. --Bojan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On 08/10/2010 06:34 PM, Daniel Hughes wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. It is not the Mono project's job to cater to every existing Linux distribution. It's up to the distributions to package software for themselves. That is all. (Also, I'm rather curious why you emailed me instead of the list, especially when I was originally addressing the Nabble issues.) -- Chris Howie http://www.chrishowie.com http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Crazycomputers If you correspond with me on a regular basis, please read this document: http://www.chrishowie.com/email-preferences/ PGP fingerprint: 2B7A B280 8B12 21CC 260A DF65 6FCE 505A CF83 38F5 IMPORTANT INFORMATION/DISCLAIMER This document should be read only by those persons to whom it is addressed. If you have received this message it was obviously addressed to you and therefore you can read it. Additionally, by sending an email to ANY of my addresses or to ANY mailing lists to which I am subscribed, whether intentionally or accidentally, you are agreeing that I am the intended recipient, and that I may do whatever I wish with the contents of any message received from you, unless a pre-existing agreement prohibits me from so doing. This overrides any disclaimer or statement of confidentiality that may be included on your message. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
For the benefit of us noobs, what is a PPA? I'm guessing pre-packaged archive or something like that. I tried looking it up on google but I don't see any acronyms that would seem to apply. --- On Tue, 8/10/10, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: From: Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu To: Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com Cc: mono-list@lists.ximian.com Received: Tuesday, August 10, 2010, 8:57 PM Does GNOME maintain PPA's like this? Does any project? On Aug 10, 2010 6:35 PM, Daniel Hughes tramps...@gmail.com wrote: No one expects mono to be pushed out as a automatic update on ubuntu. We do however expect a PPA which is on even footing with windows, mac etc. I.E same day support to the same quality. And supported by the mono team. That is all. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:18 AM, Bojan Rajkovic severedcr...@gmail.com wrote: On 08/10/2010 10:03 AM, Christopher Monroe wrote: I'll second the complaint about the foru... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.co... ___ Mono-list maillist - mono-l...@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:48 PM, green bruno.gr...@gmail.com wrote:
why newer versions of mono cant be installed on ubuntu?
if a framework is done well(not modifying interfaces, existing functions,
etc), new releases would'nt break old applications.
Novell doesn't support Ubuntu, likely due to cost reasons--they'd pretty
much need to hire at least one more, maybe two more people to do
Debian-style packaging for Debian and Ubuntu. RPM-based distros like Red
Hat, etc. are easy, because they can modify SuSE .spec files as necessary.
This is not to say that updates to Mono can't be installed on Ubuntu. The
community packagers for Debbuntu do a good job of getting Mono releases out
shortly after the official release drops. You can find fairly up-to-date
releases for Ubuntu at http://badgerports.com, and Debian has up-to-date
releases in the experimental distribution. The reason that the official
Ubuntu repositories don't update faster is that Mono is a core framework,
and as such, requires extensive testing before it can be upgraded--due to
Ubuntu's policies, it's not likely that you'll ever see an updated Mono come
in through {distribution}-backports or any of the other update repos,
barring major security fixes, etc.
another question, why the forum keeps refreshing all the time, also during
posting? its annoying.
Nabble bug? Using the mailing list directly is much more convenient.
--
View this message in context:
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Re: [Mono-list] ubuntu packaging
Am 04.03.2010 11:40, schrieb Daniel Hughes: Recently banshee turned on opt in statistic gathering, the first set of results are in, and it turns out that the overwhelming majority of Banshee users run it on Ubuntu. This possibly unexpected result is causing the banshee team to rethink their strategy regarding deployment to Ubuntu. Including the importance of providing same days packaging for ubuntu. Banshee/BuildVendor: Users: 519 292 : Ubuntu 9.10 51 : Ubuntu 9.10 c519a80 33 : source-tarball 25 : Banshee / openSUSE_11.2 22 : git-checkout 20 : banshee-project.org OSX 10.5+ i386/Intel 16 : Gentoo/banshee/1.5.4 14 : Ubuntu lucid (development branch) c519a80 7: Debian GNU/Linux unstable (sid) 6: Ubuntu 9.10 8fef2fb 4: Foresight Linux 4: Ubuntu 9.04 4: Ubuntu 9.10 0328ab7 4: Ubuntu 9.10 ffc9f0f 3: Ubuntu 9.10 424a345 3: Ubuntu 9.10 d885c99 2: ArchLinux 2: Banshee:Alpha / openSUSE_11.2 2: Ubuntu lucid (development branch) 8fef2fb 1: Fedora12-1.5.4-0.1.fc12.aa 1: Fedora12-1.5.4-1.fc12 1: Fedora13-1.5.4-1.fc13 1: Fedora14-1.5.4-1.fc14 This is only a small sample size, and does not necessarily correlate to what operating systems mono is used on. However if it did would that cause the mono project to reconsider its decision to not provide packaging for Ubuntu? I know the reasons why mono does not provide ubuntu packaging have been discussed on this mailing list in the past. However would it make a differences if it turned out that most mono users ran ubuntu? ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list Hi, I think such numbers aren't much representative because most users doesn't send usage statistic. Regarding to our own stats generated from responses of 2034 users so far (the response is voluntary): 31,61% (642 users) have installed mono and 2,51% (51 users) have installed banshee So you see that your number (2) is much different to ours (51). I know that this only represent that they have installed the package and it doesn't mean that all the people use it. But why should someone install a package if he doesn't use it. Furthermore the banshee package isn't required by any other package as dependency, so it was explicit installed by the user. You can find the complete stats on the german website of Arch Linux: https://www.archlinux.de/?page=PackageStatistics Cheers, Daniel (mono maintainer of Arch Linux) ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu 8.04 GTK-Sharp Couldn't File in MonoDevelop IDE
Michael Hutchinson wrote: On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 1:56 AM, somepalli venkat.s...@gmail.com wrote: Build the project completed successfully. but while Run the project i am getting following error I am Ubuntu 8.04 User . I installed Mono and Open the Mono develop then i designed with just simple design and I got success in Build Project and Build Solution. When i Run the Solution i got Below Message ** (/home/Csharp1/Csharp1/bin/Debug/Csharp1.exe:16310): WARNING **: Could not load file or assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies. Unhandled Exception: System.IO.FileNotFoundException: Could not load file or assembly 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' or one of its dependencies. File name: 'gtk-sharp, Version=2.12.0.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=35e10195dab3c99f' It sounds to me like you have a messed up mono installation -- probably Mono installed from source into /usr/local, with the distro-provided Mono in /usr. Is this the case? -- Michael Hutchinson http://mjhutchinson.com ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list Thank you for reply Ya.. its installation problem after your message i tried to install build-essential package but i am not able to install after solving get back to the mono development. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Ubuntu-8.04-GTK-Sharp-Couldn%27t-File-in-MonoDevelop-IDE-tp22820263p22840637.html Sent from the Mono - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
Re: [Mono-list] Ubuntu/Debian package
I have been trying to build from the mono-1.2.5.2.tar.bz2 on the go-mono site and have discovered that the runtime directory is missing (the equivalent 1.2.4 tarball has it) and configure won't run. Can I copy the files from 1.2.4? Is this a bug in the tarball? thanks dan Dan Smithers wrote: I have just found that the version of mono distributed with ubuntu 7.04 is 1.2.3 and with 7.10 1.2.4 I want to build the latest version as I have found a few issues that may be solved by this and would like some advice. Do I get the latest version as a tarball from www.go-mono.com or is there a svn repositry that I could connect to? Which packages do I need? Does mono-1.2.5.2.tar.bz work with the other packages installed or will I need to update GTK#? When I get it going, what sort of tests would I need to do to validate it a submit it as an apt? thanks dan ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list ___ Mono-list maillist - Mono-list@lists.ximian.com http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/mono-list
