Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
Reading your post the word engagement popped into my head. We want the children to engage in the story. Not just read the words. Have you ever read aloud, and not know what you read? I have -I wasn't engaged -I wasn't taking in what I was reading -I was just saying the words. Well, I do that sometimes when I read silently too. Then I have to go back and reread. I wasn't engaged Jan We must view young people not as empty bottles to be filled, but as candles to be lit. -Robert Shaffer - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Mosaic: A Reading Comprehension Strategies Email Group<mailto:mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> Sent: Saturday, September 27, 2008 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long Elisa, Join the late email reader's club. I've been so far behind that I don't know that l'll ever catch up! I think that what we are trying to accomplish is giving students a model of how to think, how to help them become more conscious of that little voice in their head. I don't think we are dictating when they should think, or what they should think. I think we are introducing them to this idea of dwelling in the words, soaking up the meaning; all the while training that voice, learning to have that conversation. Having said that, I reread a piece I wrote this summer, and there's no doubt that I held back, leaving it up to the reader to wonder what's going on. Although I do mention a storm, it's not until the last paragraph that I mention the word tornado. I give many clues throughout the piece, and if you live in the midwest you might make the connection earlier because of the setting, the characters' actions and dialog. But I'm still not convinced that this is what we are talking about. We want students to read and think. Mostly, though, I want my students to enjoy reading and to find it satisfying and worthwhile. To me, learning the strategies can help them come closer to doing that. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org<mailto:Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org> To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org<http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org>. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive<http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive>. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
Elisa, Join the late email reader's club. I've been so far behind that I don't know that l'll ever catch up! I think that what we are trying to accomplish is giving students a model of how to think, how to help them become more conscious of that little voice in their head. I don't think we are dictating when they should think, or what they should think. I think we are introducing them to this idea of dwelling in the words, soaking up the meaning; all the while training that voice, learning to have that conversation. Having said that, I reread a piece I wrote this summer, and there's no doubt that I held back, leaving it up to the reader to wonder what's going on. Although I do mention a storm, it's not until the last paragraph that I mention the word tornado. I give many clues throughout the piece, and if you live in the midwest you might make the connection earlier because of the setting, the characters' actions and dialog. But I'm still not convinced that this is what we are talking about. We want students to read and think. Mostly, though, I want my students to enjoy reading and to find it satisfying and worthwhile. To me, learning the strategies can help them come closer to doing that. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
My last years in the classroom (hopefully not my last forever, but for now), I really started to draw this language into writing workshop and it did seem to connect for six, seven and eights. For me sensory imagery was the easiest way to draw children into thinking deeply about the relationship between words and feelings. Children catch this notion quickly and respond with beams to, "Ooh, I just love how you described your grandmother to me, but here in the story there aren't any of those words. You said her hair was 'grey like silver'. I am wondering if that would help your readers see your grandmother in their minds when they read this story? Is there some place where you could add this bit?'" The other area where I though these kiddos caught things quickly was inference. Sometime the unintentional misuse of pronoun--you know how the kids start stories with he or she--gave me an opportunity to further this discussion. Something like, "By not using your character's name at the beginning, you really make me think hard as a reader. This bit here gives me the idea that he is your friend and keeps me wondering through the whole story, what is his name? Let's think of a way you could give me another clue. Sometimes writer's use dialog. Remember the story we read that started out "Not again, Max!" The author didn't tell us that Max was going to be a character, but let us figure it out from that bit of dialog. Would that work here somewhere? Show me a place where it might." Lori On 9/27/08 4:35 AM, "Waingort Jimenez, Elisa" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I know this is an old thread but I am just now trying (still and forever) to > catch up with my email. I'll have to admit that when I read Ginger's email I > was wondering if maybe kids aren't getting it because we are trying too hard > to get them to the place we think they should be at. And, whenever I see > "shoulds" I get nervous. When we talk about leading kids to stop and think at > the same points where we might stop and think, a red light goes off for me. I > do understand and appreciate the need/desire for kids to do deeper thinking > when they're reading but sometimes it seems forced when they're just not there > with you at a particular moment. Yet, they are there with you at other > moments. Perhaps when they're there the story is written in such a way that > it's apparent what the deeper thinking might look like. When I read Joy's > message below I started thinking that a way to get kids to deeper meaning > might be through studying author's craft and how they themselves create their > own pieces. If a piece elicits deeper thinking, what does the author do to > help us get there? What do we want to do in our own writing and what do we do > to help our readers get there? Interesting... > Elisa > > Elisa Waingort > Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual > Dalhousie Elementary > Calgary, Canada > > > > > So now I'm thinking about what I do as a writer. . . I need to look back > at a piece I wrote this summer, I think I did add in places for my > reader to pause and think. This is interesting, and it making me think > about what I do, as well as what I do with my students. > > I use mentor texts to help my students approximate what authors do, so > having them look at text from the author's standpoint might help. Wow, > more to think about. > > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > > > ___ > Mosaic mailing list > Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org > To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to > http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. > > Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. > -- Lori Jackson District Literacy Coach & Mentor Todd County School District Box 87 Mission SD 57555 http:www.tcsdk12.org ph. 605.856.2211 Literacies for All Summer Institute July 17-20. 2008 Tucson, Arizona ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
I know this is an old thread but I am just now trying (still and forever) to catch up with my email. I'll have to admit that when I read Ginger's email I was wondering if maybe kids aren't getting it because we are trying too hard to get them to the place we think they should be at. And, whenever I see "shoulds" I get nervous. When we talk about leading kids to stop and think at the same points where we might stop and think, a red light goes off for me. I do understand and appreciate the need/desire for kids to do deeper thinking when they're reading but sometimes it seems forced when they're just not there with you at a particular moment. Yet, they are there with you at other moments. Perhaps when they're there the story is written in such a way that it's apparent what the deeper thinking might look like. When I read Joy's message below I started thinking that a way to get kids to deeper meaning might be through studying author's craft and how they themselves create their own pieces. If a piece elicits deeper thinking, what does the author do to help us get there? What do we want to do in our own writing and what do we do to help our readers get there? Interesting... Elisa Elisa Waingort Grade 2 Spanish Bilingual Dalhousie Elementary Calgary, Canada So now I'm thinking about what I do as a writer. . . I need to look back at a piece I wrote this summer, I think I did add in places for my reader to pause and think. This is interesting, and it making me think about what I do, as well as what I do with my students. I use mentor texts to help my students approximate what authors do, so having them look at text from the author's standpoint might help. Wow, more to think about. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
So now I'm thinking about what I do as a writer. . . I need to look back at a piece I wrote this summer, I think I did add in places for my reader to pause and think. This is interesting, and it making me think about what I do, as well as what I do with my students. I use mentor texts to help my students approximate what authors do, so having them look at text from the author's standpoint might help. Wow, more to think about. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
my only suggestion would be to textmap and literally model with your own thinking signal and notice if your signal turns on in certain parts of the text for example in the beginning or ending of paragraphs... I am sure that thinking signals and text structure are closely related (think climax and resolution as well as character development and setting)as is genre, and author's tools (like a show not tell) An author's job is to communicate an idea I would suspect though I've never tried it that the structure of a text almost implants stopping and thinking points. this is especially true with nonfiction... the conventions alone presuppose that you will think using the conventions as a map or guide for your thoughts. I like your idea of trying to make the implicit (thinking) more explicit my other concern would be to include a kinesthetic signal. I have had first graders tell me that they can't make pictures in their minds unless they have already seen a picture that has to do with the text. In a message dated 9/21/2008 11:00:34 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I have a question. I have been working with my third graders on hearing/seeing their thinking signal going off when they are reading. I define a thinking signal as something that happens inside of you right before you have some thinking. I stumbled across this "visual" for them a few years ago when one of my students shared with the class that he hears an audible sound when he has some thinking. I pushed it further and eventually everyone was able to draw either what they see or what they hear when they are reading and they have thinking. I am going to have my kids draw this on Tuesday. I've been asking them to pay attention to "catch" their thinking signal and to look and listen closely to what it is. I have many who say they don't see or hear a thing. These may be my kiddos who aren't in touch with that inner voice. I'll be watching in closer on them during turn and talk times. The reason I think it is important for them to pay attention to a thinking signal is that in the past it has helped in our discussion of the need to stop and think when reading. Not just the need to be a thinking reader but how to know when it is an important place/time to have some thinking as they are reading. I think I am pretty good at teaching kids that they DO have a thinking voice. I can help them hear it after modeling my own thinking when I am reading and then inviting them to share their thinking. Being able to reinforce the "signal" has just been another tool for me in this work. Like when I am reading to them and I get to a really surprising part and I see a student make that startled/gasp body reaction. I can say, "I just saw your thinking signal tell you that you have some thinking right there. Would you like to share your thinking?" After a few days of me talking about past kids thinking signals and asking them to pay attention to what it is they see/hear, I asked them if anyone would like to share what he/she hears/sees when reading and they have some thinking bubbling up. I have the best time listening to them share what their signals look like or sound like. I get responses like a stop sign, a horn going beep-beep-beep, flashing lights, a little voice that says it's time to think, etc. Some kids respond with what their thinking is rather than a sign that they have thinking. I know this is tricky because at my school, these kids have had deep instruction on the inner voice already. So what I am asking them to do is think about what happens in their bodies BEFORE they tell me their thinking. This can sound a bit belabored but I have a purpose. I discovered a couple years ago that even my strongest thinkers (I taught fourth grade that year) were not stopping at the deep inferential places in the text. This was first evident when I gave them a common text piece that we had been reading in a shared setting and then asked them to note for me WHERE they found themselves stopping to think as they read further independently. The text we were using comes from Avi's book, "What Do Fish Have To Do With Anything?" The short story we were using was 'The Goodness of Matt Kaiser". (We had used two other short stories from this book previous to this point. Where I was the reader and they wrote their thinking when I stopped at crucial thinking points. So this "action" of stopping at the 'good thinking points' was not new to them.) After several days of me being the reader and having them stop and write their thinking at the key points, I gave them short bursts of text to read with the purpose of showing me where Avi led them to infer meaning. (We'd worked most of the year on inferring.) Over and over I was both surprised at and disappointed in their stopping places. I realize that we all have different places w
Re: [MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
Ginger, Leave it to you to not only ask a fabulous question, but follow it up with an example of exemplary teaching. Some of my students tell me that their thinking signal is when they feel their eyes glance up. They say it's like they are glancing up to "read" what is written in their brain. When they don't "see" anything, they know they have to think more. I'm thinking that maybe that's what they're doing when meaning breaks down. How to lead kids to know when they should be thinking deeply is something I'm interested in learning about as well. Wow, now you've given me something to look for in my students. By the way, it's great to hear your voice again! Joy/NC/4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Ginger wrote: I get how to model these reasons that I would stop and think: 1. when meaning breaks down (not my purpose right now) 2. when I am surprised or startled with the story line 3. when I wonder something 4. when I want to savor a visual image 5. when I have a connection 6. when my thinking changes as I am reading on (synthesis) 7. when I learn something new But how do you verbalize recognizing those truly deep stopping points to a third grader? This feels more than inferring to me. When as a reader I KNOW the author is leading me to infer at a very deep level so I better stop and talk to myself reflect about that part. Or does this just come with maturity and the development of the intellect??? For them to do it on their own? I am DYING to hear your thoughts. Thanks you guys. Ginger W. ___ Mosaic mailing list Mosaic@literacyworkshop.org To unsubscribe or modify your membership please go to http://literacyworkshop.org/mailman/options/mosaic_literacyworkshop.org. Search the MOSAIC archives at http://snipurl.com/MosaicArchive.
[MOSAIC] stopping and thinking/long
I have a question. I have been working with my third graders on hearing/seeing their thinking signal going off when they are reading. I define a thinking signal as something that happens inside of you right before you have some thinking. I stumbled across this "visual" for them a few years ago when one of my students shared with the class that he hears an audible sound when he has some thinking. I pushed it further and eventually everyone was able to draw either what they see or what they hear when they are reading and they have thinking. I am going to have my kids draw this on Tuesday. I've been asking them to pay attention to "catch" their thinking signal and to look and listen closely to what it is. I have many who say they don't see or hear a thing. These may be my kiddos who aren't in touch with that inner voice. I'll be watching in closer on them during turn and talk times. The reason I think it is important for them to pay attention to a thinking signal is that in the past it has helped in our discussion of the need to stop and think when reading. Not just the need to be a thinking reader but how to know when it is an important place/time to have some thinking as they are reading. I think I am pretty good at teaching kids that they DO have a thinking voice. I can help them hear it after modeling my own thinking when I am reading and then inviting them to share their thinking. Being able to reinforce the "signal" has just been another tool for me in this work. Like when I am reading to them and I get to a really surprising part and I see a student make that startled/gasp body reaction. I can say, "I just saw your thinking signal tell you that you have some thinking right there. Would you like to share your thinking?" After a few days of me talking about past kids thinking signals and asking them to pay attention to what it is they see/hear, I asked them if anyone would like to share what he/she hears/sees when reading and they have some thinking bubbling up. I have the best time listening to them share what their signals look like or sound like. I get responses like a stop sign, a horn going beep-beep-beep, flashing lights, a little voice that says it's time to think, etc. Some kids respond with what their thinking is rather than a sign that they have thinking. I know this is tricky because at my school, these kids have had deep instruction on the inner voice already. So what I am asking them to do is think about what happens in their bodies BEFORE they tell me their thinking. This can sound a bit belabored but I have a purpose. I discovered a couple years ago that even my strongest thinkers (I taught fourth grade that year) were not stopping at the deep inferential places in the text. This was first evident when I gave them a common text piece that we had been reading in a shared setting and then asked them to note for me WHERE they found themselves stopping to think as they read further independently. The text we were using comes from Avi's book, "What Do Fish Have To Do With Anything?" The short story we were using was 'The Goodness of Matt Kaiser". (We had used two other short stories from this book previous to this point. Where I was the reader and they wrote their thinking when I stopped at crucial thinking points. So this "action" of stopping at the 'good thinking points' was not new to them.) After several days of me being the reader and having them stop and write their thinking at the key points, I gave them short bursts of text to read with the purpose of showing me where Avi led them to infer meaning. (We'd worked most of the year on inferring.) Over and over I was both surprised at and disappointed in their stopping places. I realize that we all have different places we stop and think and that if the thinking can be substantiated in the text, it isn't "wrong" thinking, but. there were many places where the author's words NEEDED to be inferred for the deep meaning and most of my kids MISSED those places. They were so sure that they had "found" the places in the text were Avi 'wanted' them to do deep thinking. So here is my question has anyone done any explicit teaching on how to help kids know WHEN to stop and think. I guess I want to help my kids to do the deepest thinking at those places in the text where it jumps out at ME but is not jumping out at them. If I was meeting with a small group to practice this I would give them some deep text, probably just 2-4 pages in a picture book, where I know there is inferred meaning. I would ask them to read and mark where they stopped and what their thinking was. I would like to ask them to tell me WHY they stopped there, how did they know to stop there. But what sort of responses should I expect? I mostly need your help so that I can be modeling this in my think alouds. I get how to model these reasons that I would stop and think: 1. when meaning breaks down (not my purpose right now) 2. wh
