Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... [snip] That is absolutely fascinating, thank you for your time. I will consider it for my research. > Again both are still being used, but as I've not used Mainframes in > anger for a few years now but doesn't MVS/XA still support CICS as a > virtual machine "on the bus"? I personally haven't seen CICS much since about 1994, but I was standing in the Perot Systems data center when the sysops brought up the data segment after installing the first IBM TCP/IP stack for MVS/XA. Holy crap. A 4 gigaflop relational database and file server. Makes NT and Sun look like tinker toys. These little hacker geeks just don't understand.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 22:56:22 GMT, "George Copeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >> They still exist and are being used, although not as much as before. >> What is interesting about TCP/IP as a way of communicating is that >> there are now many differing systems with a shared connectivity model. >> Heterogenous (sp?). hasn't made things any simpler as each has merits >> and disadvantages. Do you remember the original IBM 13 layer OSI >> model? > >It's funny, you are hitting all of my high points. *smile* > IBM came out with their >micro-channel PC architecture about 1993. It was far superior to even what >is being used today, had real plug-play and lots of other advantages. It >was also completely proprietary. Microsoft helped all of the hardware >manufacturers come up with their own architecture standard. This effort >virtually killed IBM's attempt to corner the market. I do not remember it exactly as that. MCA architecture was earlier than that IIRC. The system was no where near fool-proof with manufacturers having to pay to register their particular cards to get them certified. There was any number of problems with config discs for each card only having a specfic range of addresses, DMA etc and card clashes were frequent. Further if you did not have the disc then you could not install the cards leading many of us to make copies of the bloody things somewhere that we could get access to (a server share of some sort was favoured) if we had forgotten/lost/whatever the things. Again I am not so sure it was Microsoft that killed it off more than PCI which microsoft adopted as a way forward. True that PS2's were virtually bullet proof but relied on IB and Intel being in bed together. With the advent of other processors and cheaper PCI boards with faster subsystems IBM couldn't compete in the particular market. Again IIRC the move to RISC based RS systems still uses the technology? > >OSI, the nomenclature is slipping, Open Systems Interconnectivity, something >like that? Came out about 1988? If that is the thing, I remember it. Very >ambitious, was not adopted by industry, was the last major innovation IBM >tried before their big fall. I thought that they were toast, but Gerstner >brought them back from the dead. The man deserves a Nobel prize. The OSI model is still used extensively but the seven layer model. Interestingly enough TCP/IP drops between layer two and three, maybe IBM got it right in the first place? Certainly they lost out by waiting for 802.5 to be fully ratified before releasing Token passing networking. People had already gone for Ethernet 802.3 *before* the ratification which also rather put an end to Banyan Vines, Starlan and the others. Cheaper to inplement as well, only passive Cat 2 cabling instead of active components. I would have thought an avenue of research would be the almost total uptake of Cat 5 cabling as against the AT&T or Type 1 systems would be a more interesting effect. Telco's like BT, Banking systems Reuters and Bloomberg capitulated totally in the end but not without a struggle. > >Anyway, IBM invented client/server back around 1965 with their TSO products >and CICS. A lot of people forget that. > Again both are still being used, but as I've not used Mainframes in anger for a few years now but doesn't MVS/XA still support CICS as a virtual machine "on the bus"? Anyway take care as ever David D. The Mediaeval Combat Society The Historical Reenactment Web Site http://www.montacute.net/histrenact/welcome.htm
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"ML" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > Try: http://sillydog.org/narchive/ > > > > Thanks that is very useful. > > Are you going to publish a paper on this? It's interesting, especially > to one who has used Netscape since v.1 and is still a member of the > loyal and faithful. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. I agree it is an interesting subject. I was a loyal NS user up until IE 3.02 Beta 1 (came out about June 1996). It wasn't better than NS, but it was programmable. I started using it and never made it back.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
> > Try: http://sillydog.org/narchive/ > > Thanks that is very useful. Are you going to publish a paper on this? It's interesting, especially to one who has used Netscape since v.1 and is still a member of the loyal and faithful. ML
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > They still exist and are being used, although not as much as before. > What is interesting about TCP/IP as a way of communicating is that > there are now many differing systems with a shared connectivity model. > Heterogenous (sp?). hasn't made things any simpler as each has merits > and disadvantages. Do you remember the original IBM 13 layer OSI > model? It's funny, you are hitting all of my high points. IBM came out with their micro-channel PC architecture about 1993. It was far superior to even what is being used today, had real plug-play and lots of other advantages. It was also completely proprietary. Microsoft helped all of the hardware manufacturers come up with their own architecture standard. This effort virtually killed IBM's attempt to corner the market. OSI, the nomenclature is slipping, Open Systems Interconnectivity, something like that? Came out about 1988? If that is the thing, I remember it. Very ambitious, was not adopted by industry, was the last major innovation IBM tried before their big fall. I thought that they were toast, but Gerstner brought them back from the dead. The man deserves a Nobel prize. Anyway, IBM invented client/server back around 1965 with their TSO products and CICS. A lot of people forget that.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 19:39:33 GMT, "George Copeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >> I think that is a bit simplistic. When TCP/IP was shoehorned on-top of >> these other systems a type of interconnectivity was achieved getting >> progressively better as the old systems gradually died out. Did you >> ever use a product called Novix? TCP/IP over/along with IPX/SPX? >> Yeuch! > >Yeah, I used a lot of those products. I think one of the biggest business >mistakes of the Internet era was the price that Novell charged for their >first TCP/IP upgrade. At the time, every business I knew of used Novell. >Now, I haven't seen a Novell network for years. > > They still exist and are being used, although not as much as before. What is interesting about TCP/IP as a way of communicating is that there are now many differing systems with a shared connectivity model. Heterogenous (sp?). hasn't made things any simpler as each has merits and disadvantages. Do you remember the original IBM 13 layer OSI model? Take care David D. The Mediaeval Combat Society The Historical Reenactment Web Site http://www.montacute.net/histrenact/welcome.htm
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I think that is a bit simplistic. When TCP/IP was shoehorned on-top of > these other systems a type of interconnectivity was achieved getting > progressively better as the old systems gradually died out. Did you > ever use a product called Novix? TCP/IP over/along with IPX/SPX? > Yeuch! Yeah, I used a lot of those products. I think one of the biggest business mistakes of the Internet era was the price that Novell charged for their first TCP/IP upgrade. At the time, every business I knew of used Novell. Now, I haven't seen a Novell network for years.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 16:25:05 GMT, "George Copeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >> I think that the relevance was that these dissonent systems of >> interconnectivity. email and such like, were brought together, >> struggling, and unified in a disjointed manner. > >Before TCP/IP, such systems could only be interconnected with custom >software, so it only happened piecemeal. When networks moved to TCP/IP, all >things became possible. :-) I think that is a bit simplistic. When TCP/IP was shoehorned on-top of these other systems a type of interconnectivity was achieved getting progressively better as the old systems gradually died out. Did you ever use a product called Novix? TCP/IP over/along with IPX/SPX? Yeuch! Take care David D. The Mediaeval Combat Society The Historical Reenactment Web Site http://www.montacute.net/histrenact/welcome.htm
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I think that the relevance was that these dissonent systems of > interconnectivity. email and such like, were brought together, > struggling, and unified in a disjointed manner. Before TCP/IP, such systems could only be interconnected with custom software, so it only happened piecemeal. When networks moved to TCP/IP, all things became possible. :-)
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:16:15 GMT, "George Copeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >> Far enough. Are you going back to the internet pre-html days as well? >> It always makes me smile when people say the internet was created in >> 1991 (or whatever). Not many people remember BIX, CIX, early >> compuserve and things like fidonet and janet these days. > >I don't see any relevance of these issues to business history. From a >business perspective, the main innovation was the TCP/IP stack, which >provides a standard way to connect computers. In 1994, we (all of us in >business technology) were working on systems that we called "client-server", >and each system pretty much had its own connection scheme. Nobody does that >anymore. > Well *an* innovation was TCP as a protocol and its uptake by the business community was a factor but the protocol started to be taken up in the late 1980s IIRC. I remember going to a seminar in about 1988 that talked about this. It was during the great Ethernet V Token ring battle. :-) I think that the relevance was that these dissonent systems of interconnectivity. email and such like, were brought together, struggling, and unified in a disjointed manner. I well remember being part of a discussion about the viability of getting a dial-in service to a computer and charging people, oh, about a tenner-a-month for the service but did not have the money to buy into the startup company that resulted. If you are in the UK you will have heard of a company called Demon Internet? The ramifications of that discussion are still felt with ISP's in the UK (Demon included) still having a problem charging more than £10.00 per month (£11.75 with VAT) for their base services. It was thought about as high as people would go in 1990 for a service but has not kept up with inflation at all over the last 12 years or so thus causing revenue problems with many ISPs requiring investment in equipment to keep up with technology but a limited, by custom these days, to an arbitary figure bandied around at the time. Oh well remeniscences :-) Take care David D. The Mediaeval Combat Society The Historical Reenactment Web Site http://www.montacute.net/histrenact/welcome.htm
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Far enough. Are you going back to the internet pre-html days as well? > It always makes me smile when people say the internet was created in > 1991 (or whatever). Not many people remember BIX, CIX, early > compuserve and things like fidonet and janet these days. I don't see any relevance of these issues to business history. From a business perspective, the main innovation was the TCP/IP stack, which provides a standard way to connect computers. In 1994, we (all of us in business technology) were working on systems that we called "client-server", and each system pretty much had its own connection scheme. Nobody does that anymore.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:53:40 GMT, "George Copeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >> Yes indeed. it rather took over from Mosaic and at the time IE was a >> bit of a no-goer. I suppose I was interested in your line of research >> really. Netscape has rather lost the plot recently with >> "feature-bloat" IMHO. Oh well > >I am an armchair historian and I like business history. I think it is kind >of a neglected topic. > Far enough. Are you going back to the internet pre-html days as well? It always makes me smile when people say the internet was created in 1991 (or whatever). Not many people remember BIX, CIX, early compuserve and things like fidonet and janet these days. Take care David D. The Mediaeval Combat Society The Historical Reenactment Web Site http://www.montacute.net/histrenact/welcome.htm
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Yes indeed. it rather took over from Mosaic and at the time IE was a > bit of a no-goer. I suppose I was interested in your line of research > really. Netscape has rather lost the plot recently with > "feature-bloat" IMHO. Oh well I am an armchair historian and I like business history. I think it is kind of a neglected topic.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"Chris I" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Try: http://sillydog.org/narchive/ Thanks that is very useful.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:18:45 GMT, "George Copeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message >[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > >> Out of genuine interest why? I remember the first www type browsers >> (they did make using the internet far easier!) but why particularly >> Netscape and animated gifs and not the others? > >Netscape was the first commercial browser to support animated gifs. At the >time, it had a market share (if you can call it that) approaching 100%. > Yes indeed. it rather took over from Mosaic and at the time IE was a bit of a no-goer. I suppose I was interested in your line of research really. Netscape has rather lost the plot recently with "feature-bloat" IMHO. Oh well Take care David D. The Mediaeval Combat Society The Historical Reenactment Web Site http://www.montacute.net/histrenact/welcome.htm
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
George Copeland wrote: >I am looking for the version number of the first release of Netscape >Navigator that would display animated gifs, and the exact date of its >release. If anyone knows or remembers any of the details surrounding the >first use of animated gifs on the web, I would be delighted to know it, >especially if you have inside or detailed recollections or if you know of an >online reference. > >My guess is version 1.1 released on March 6, 1995, but I have no >confirmation of this. > >http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease16.html > >I found this odd document on the w3c website which seems to imply that no >animated gif support was available at the time it was written. Strangely, >it is not dated, but appears to have been written in late 1994-early 1995. >Later releases of Netscape put the proposed project in the dustbin. > >http://www.w3.org/Conferences/WWW4/Papers/100/ > >Thank you for your time. > Try: http://sillydog.org/narchive/ -- Chris I ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"Christopher Jahn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Best asked in: > snews://secnews.netscape.com/netcape.communicator > > And also try: > http://ufaq.org Thanks.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
"David Debono" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Out of genuine interest why? I remember the first www type browsers > (they did make using the internet far easier!) but why particularly > Netscape and animated gifs and not the others? Netscape was the first commercial browser to support animated gifs. At the time, it had a market share (if you can call it that) approaching 100%.
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
On Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:21:31 GMT, "George Copeland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >I am looking for the version number of the first release of Netscape >Navigator that would display animated gifs, and the exact date of its >release. If anyone knows or remembers any of the details surrounding the >first use of animated gifs on the web, I would be delighted to know it, >especially if you have inside or detailed recollections or if you know of an >online reference. > >My guess is version 1.1 released on March 6, 1995, but I have no >confirmation of this. > >http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease16.html > >I found this odd document on the w3c website which seems to imply that no >animated gif support was available at the time it was written. Strangely, >it is not dated, but appears to have been written in late 1994-early 1995. >Later releases of Netscape put the proposed project in the dustbin. > >http://www.w3.org/Conferences/WWW4/Papers/100/ > >Thank you for your time. > Out of genuine interest why? I remember the first www type browsers (they did make using the internet far easier!) but why particularly Netscape and animated gifs and not the others? Take care David D. The Mediaeval Combat Society The Historical Reenactment Web Site http://www.montacute.net/histrenact/welcome.htm
Re: History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
And it came to pass that George Copeland wrote:
> I am looking for the version number of the first release of
> Netscape Navigator that would display animated gifs, and
> the exact date of its release. If anyone knows or
> remembers any of the details surrounding the first use of
> animated gifs on the web, I would be delighted to know it,
> especially if you have inside or detailed recollections or
> if you know of an online reference.
>
> My guess is version 1.1 released on March 6, 1995, but I
> have no confirmation of this.
>
> http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease16.html
>
> I found this odd document on the w3c website which seems to
> imply that no animated gif support was available at the
> time it was written. Strangely, it is not dated, but
> appears to have been written in late 1994-early 1995. Later
> releases of Netscape put the proposed project in the
> dustbin.
>
> http://www.w3.org/Conferences/WWW4/Papers/100/
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
>
Best asked in:
snews://secnews.netscape.com/netcape.communicator
And also try:
http://ufaq.org
--
}:-) Christopher Jahn
{:-( Dionysian Reveler
Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side and a dark side
and it
holds the universe together.
To reply: xjahnATyahooDOTcom
History Q: Animated gifs in Netscape
I am looking for the version number of the first release of Netscape Navigator that would display animated gifs, and the exact date of its release. If anyone knows or remembers any of the details surrounding the first use of animated gifs on the web, I would be delighted to know it, especially if you have inside or detailed recollections or if you know of an online reference. My guess is version 1.1 released on March 6, 1995, but I have no confirmation of this. http://www.netscape.com/newsref/pr/newsrelease16.html I found this odd document on the w3c website which seems to imply that no animated gif support was available at the time it was written. Strangely, it is not dated, but appears to have been written in late 1994-early 1995. Later releases of Netscape put the proposed project in the dustbin. http://www.w3.org/Conferences/WWW4/Papers/100/ Thank you for your time.
Re: Animated Gifs
A practical 'real-world' example is visiting www.gimp.org. In the top-left corner, the little gimp logo has the ugly black background. Greg Steve Bowen wrote: > > Hi again, just installed 2001-06-01-16 (latest 0.9.1) win > and this bug is still there. > -- > steve > http://www.skeeter-s.com/svg > SVG examples for Mozilla -- - Greg Trounson Programmer / Analyst Dept. of Maths and Stats, University of Otago PO. Box 56, Dunedintel:64-3-4797739 New Zealand =[ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ]=
Re: Animated Gifs
Hi again, just installed 2001-06-01-16 (latest 0.9.1) win and this bug is still there. -- steve http://www.skeeter-s.com/svg SVG examples for Mozilla
Re: Animated Gifs
Hi Looks like we'll have to live with this one for awhile. From going through the bug report and comments there it is too late for 0.9.1 and even 0.9.2 It seems it will be in the builds until around 0.9.3 I'm using 2001-05-31-04 and am downloading the lastest 0.9.1 at the moment. http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla/nightly/latest-0.9.1/ >> I see it in 0.9. What build are you using? >> > Its a known bug Check out > http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77914 > -- steve http://www.skeeter-s.com/svg SVG examples for Mozilla
Re: Animated Gifs
Garth Wallace wrote: > Steve Bowen wrote: > >> Hi >> Has anyone noticed that animated gifs with a transparent background >> are showing up with an ugly black background? >> Open resource:///res/samples/test2.html from the debug Menu. It's >> number 2 in the viewer demos. The anieyes.gif when opened in PSP >> Animation Shop 3.02, one sees that it is a 10 frame gif with >> transparent background, where as the gear animation has a white >> background. > > > > I see it in 0.9. What build are you using? > Its a known bug Check out http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=77914
Re: Animated Gifs
Steve Bowen wrote: > Hi > Has anyone noticed that animated gifs with a transparent background are > showing up with an ugly black background? > Open resource:///res/samples/test2.html from the debug Menu. It's number > 2 in the viewer demos. The anieyes.gif when opened in PSP Animation > Shop 3.02, one sees that it is a 10 frame gif with transparent > background, where as the gear animation has a white background. I see it in 0.9. What build are you using?
Animated Gifs
Hi Has anyone noticed that animated gifs with a transparent background are showing up with an ugly black background? Open resource:///res/samples/test2.html from the debug Menu. It's number 2 in the viewer demos. The anieyes.gif when opened in PSP Animation Shop 3.02, one sees that it is a 10 frame gif with transparent background, where as the gear animation has a white background. Is there a better newsgroup to post to than this one? -- steve http://www.skeeter-s.com/svg SVG examples for Mozilla
