[Mpls] Fwd: Hints for living in America
Forwarded on behalf of Don Samuels. --- Begin Message --- I tried to send the pasted below to the issues list and not sure it went thru. Can you post it for me just in case? When the constitution of the United States was written, it became the ultimate political document of all time. But it existed side by side, for two centuries, with slavery, genocide and oppression, even at the hands of the ones who wrote it. A perfect document from imperfect times. America was never perfect and still is not. Our neighborhoods were never perfect either. At the times when these neighborhoods were most peaceful, African Americans were barred from moving into them. That was violence in a most damning form. For many, in all of those old imperfect times, it was just "the way things are." The status quo seemed so intractable, so overwhelming and historical that the prospect of change, personal or communal, was unimaginable. Even the visionary Thomas Jefferson said slavery was like having a tiger by the tail. It was incredibly difficult to manage and it would be fatal to release. So Dyna, your pessimism puts you in good company. But there were always brave and creative people who stood against the tide of moral decay to help move the community forward to what we enjoy today. Many risked unemployment, physical harm, imprisonment and even death to make America better. We have not simply inherited the fruit of their labor; we have inherited the challenge of their sacrifice. Getting rid of drugs in Jordan is infinitely easier than getting rid of colonialism, the institution of slavery, Jim Crow, the disintegration of the Union or Hitler¹s threat to civilization. It¹s even much easier than getting rid of drug dealing in the south side of Chicago, parts of Gary, Detroit, Baltimore and New York. We are the inheritors of the great American struggle against decay and the creativity that inspired the struggle. And to top it off, we have the good fortune of being challenged by a lite version of the great American urban crisis. This is, in the scheme of things, a little problem. Determined neighbors of good will, coming together, can inspire other neighbors, get the attention of the government and send an effectual message to criminals. In the process they establish new models of engagement for the very kids who would otherwise fall prey to the lure of crime. It¹s a beautiful thing. And all of us ordinary citizens get the privilege of investing some effort into the ongoing American story of transformation. Don¹t give up Dyna, we¹re counting on you. Too much blood has been shed for us, an indulged generation, to crumble in a pathetic heap of disillusionment. Don Samuels --- End Message --- REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Language choices while under siege/ Flip advise from a safe zone
>>Dyna is unhappy, and very upset, in Hawthorne. Yet I do not here her using demagogic language against others when describing the dynamic of her problem neighborhood, and block. Remember THAT when you peruse her comments. She is actually coping, and cool. Note Dennis's willingness to use demagogic language; I am in a position to believe he will act demagogically, too<< Keith, perhaps you and I are looking at a different definition of demagogically and demagogue. Here's some excerpts from her posts in this thread: "On a summer day this 'hood has the look and feel of a prison yard, and violence is frequent. To survive here you have to stay inside a lot, lock up anything of value, and keep your vehicles off the street and inside a tall fence if not a garage." "Dennis, there's no point in sugar coating it- our neighborhoods are de facto crime containment zones." "Jonathan is a great guy and I wish him luck, but the problems here in the criminal containment zones are pretty much intractable." "About as safe as going for a stroll in the prison yard without a guard in sight. I have a few neighbors I can trust, but most have left. Sadly, this is probably the future trend for the impacted neighborhoods- a relief valve for overcrowded prisons and jails with little legal business activity remaining." Just so we're clear, Websters defines Demagogue as: 1 : a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power, 2 : a leader championing the cause of the common people in ancient times. Now I doubt you're referring to the second when you're talking about Dennis, and while I think that Dyna has the right to both her opinion and coping mechanism, I'm not seeing the problem solving table that she is allegedly sitting atwith you. In fact most of her posts talk about how hopeless the situation is. And while she does point out some key aspects of the problem, I haven't seen solutions offered. Dennis and others on the other hand have offered not only what they do but suggestions on what others, including Dyna, can do. More to the point, they offered their perspective in response to Dyna's statements. I think if you want to allege anyone making demagogic statements, you may want to examine what you wrotel. This is right now an exchange of opinions and approaches. Let's keep it that way. Jonathan Palmer Victory REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Fwd: [Mpls] Language choices while under siege/ Flip advise from a safe zone
--- Begin Message --- --- End Message --- REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Language choices while under siege/ Flip advise from a safezone
Keith Writes: Dyna is unhappy, and very upset, in Hawthorne. Yet I do not here her using demagogic language against others when describing the dynamic of her problem neighborhood, and block. Remember THAT when you peruse her comments. She is actually coping, and cool. Note Dennis's willingness to use demagogic language; I am in a position to believe he will act demagogically, too. Finally, Mark Snyder's invitation from his quiet home: Is this sincere problem solving? Dennis Responds: You over-estimate me Keith. I don't hold much sway over the masses. Either on this list, or in person. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Create your own personal Web page with the info you use most, at My MSN. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200364ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Language choices while under siege/ Flip advise from a safe zone
Dyna is unhappy, and very upset, in Hawthorne. Yet I do not here her using demagogic language against others when describing the dynamic of her problem neighborhood, and block. Remember THAT when you peruse her comments. She is actually coping, and cool. Note Dennis's willingness to use demagogic language; I am in a position to believe he will act demagogically, too. Finally, Mark Snyder's invitation from his quiet home: Is this sincere problem solving? Dyna Sluyter wrote: > Several are owned by landlords who seem to have no qualms with renting > to drug dealers, pimps, etc.. Dennis Plante wrote: >We are trying dilligently(sic) to rid ourselves of uncaring slumlords, renters AND > homeowners. Mark Snyder wrote: >So (Dyna) why not cut out and run now rather than go down with the sinking ship? For me: I would rather be at the problem solving table with Dyna. Keith Reitman NearNorth REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] E-mail-A-Friend: Developers rescind offer
I hope the Park Board has done their homework on Skipperliner. J Gaspardo White Bear Lake Developers rescind offer Developers Jay Hoeschler and Noel Jordon have withdrawn their proposal for an $18 million development at the former Yacht Club Resorts site on Barron Island. "After meeting with your staff to discuss the process they envision and after further reflecting on the amount of time and energy that will be required of us, we have decided we should withdraw our proposal," they said in a Tuesday letter to the Park Plaza Developer Selection Committee. "We feel that others with more energy and stamina should be enlisted to pursue such a project through the process that seems to be required." For more of this story, click on or type the URL below: http://lacrossetribune.com/articles/2004/01/23/news/z1news.txt REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Stadium
Bravo! This really is what saying "no" is all about - forcing the sports franchises to pay their own costs of doing business. Why have we had $100+ million contracts in professional sports? Because the market will bear it. Why will the market bear it? Because the sports teams really have that much money to burn. Why do they have that much money to burn, which could be used instead paying for their own stadiums? Because the public has let them force it to pay those bills through government subsidies and building projects. Enough is enough. Whether the economy is good or bad, there is absolutely no excuse for cities and states to pay these costs to enrich sports owners. Something that we need also to remember is that once upon a time, stadiums cost a heck of a lot less, relatively, than they do now. There weren't the kind of lavish demands made by teams - giant electronic scoreboards, retractible roofs, special boxes only the rich and famous will see from the inside. The fact that the Vikings and the Twins started crying for a new stadium when the old one - built to THEIR requests, including that "awful" non-retractible dome - hadn't been fully paid for should be a point of outrage to every taxpayer in Minnesota. But governments and taxpayers haven't been cueing in to the fact that the wish lists grow ever more elaborate and expensive, and requests have become strident demands for new toys as a matter of "right" and "civic responsibility." How DARE the public refuse them??? The fight needs to be spelled out - it's not just about saying no to building a stadium in this or that city, it's about all cities saying no and ending for all time the expectation that a city would ever say yes. Whether it's $10 million or $100 million, it is criminal for a government to give that money out as corporate welfare for these few fat-cats when it could be used to - save a few teachers' jobs - pay a few teachers something closer to a living wage - provide housing for the homeless - provide medical care for the needy - improve public transit - clean up a polluted area and much more. Sure, we may lose the Twins or the Vikings if another city foolishly caves in and adopts them. Let them go. We lost the North Stars once. It didn't kill us. We didn't have a basketball team once. We weren't shamed before all the world as a community that didn't have a basketball team. Those who cared about the sports watched other states' teams in their living rooms and in bars, and had a glorious time. (Most still do, rather than pay the tickets, parking, and other costs to come to the stadium, anyway.) We didn't go from podunk to world class city or vice versa because we gained or lost one of these entertainment-industry parasites. Roxana Orrell Central >Terrell wrote: >Unfortunately, if we don't put some money into stadium(s), someone else >likely will and baseball and/or football will leave. What is the loss? > How much is it worth to us to avoid that loss? > >Ron writes: >Is this why the Twins moved last year when Carl threatened us? Or why the team was not eliminated from the league. I believe there is a city in South Carolina that said no to building a stadium at taxpayer expense. Me thinks the days of taxpayer funded stadiums is nearing and end. I would love to se MN lead the way on this front. > >And as for the Vikings, Red would love nothing more than to move them to LA, but LA has no interest in funding a stadium for him. They did get to vote on it. I do not trust my elected officials to not fall prey to big bucks and say no to a stadium. >Ron Leurquin >Nokomis East REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Stadium
Terrell wrote: Unfortunately, if we don't put some money into stadium(s), someone else likely will and baseball and/or football will leave. What is the loss? How much is it worth to us to avoid that loss? Ron writes: Is this why the Twins moved last year when Carl threatened us? Or why the team was not eliminated from the league. I believe there is a city in South Carolina that said no to building a stadium at taxpayer expense. Me thinks the days of taxpayer funded stadiums is nearing and end. I would love to se MN lead the way on this front. And as for the Vikings, Red would love nothing more than to move them to LA, but LA has no interest in funding a stadium for him. They did get to vote on it. I do not trust my elected officials to not fall prey to big bucks and say no to a stadium. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Stadium
--- "Leurquin, Ronald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Amen to a referendum. > My vote would be for the businesses to support themselves or sell out > to someone else. Baseball and football are businesses. If Carl and > Red can't make "enough' money with them then they can sell to someone > that will be happy with the profits they can achieve. A taxpayer > funded stadium is nothing more than corporate welfare. > Ron Leurquin > Nokomis East [TB] Professional sports have a strange business model, a model that requires a business premises with at either no or nearly no cost to the business owner. Few business can pull that off. It's also a model that generates extremely large amounts of money, most, something in the area of 60% of which flows to the players. Given the revenue split, a subsidy to either football or baseball likely benefits the players as much or more as it does the owners. I don't think either of those groups needs a subsidy. Unfortunately, if we don't put some money into stadium(s), someone else likely will and baseball and/or football will leave. What is the loss? How much is it worth to us to avoid that loss? I can't say I know what that value is. While my history says I'm not going to spend much, if any, money going to games, I may take advantage of some of the things that are available because the 80 some days a year when there is a baseball game enables them to do enough business to stay open. I'm not convinced that a hundred or two million dollars is well spent keeping those places open, it would cost us less to just send them a check. I've been to Denver since they opened their baseball stadium and do think the area around it has developed reasonably well. I think the area around the Rapid Park site is developing reasonably well without a stadium. I'm not convinced its worth a couple of hundred million dollars to keep baseball in Minneapolis for the next couple of decades. That being said, I'm not in favor of a referendum. We elect City Council members and Legislature to make decisions. If they make bad decisions, we elect someone else at the next elections. I've seen enough California referendums that I don't want to start that here. Let our elected representatives do their jobs. Terrell Brown Loring Park __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Stadium
Mark Anderson is so right. Every poll ever taken in this state shows a 2-1 majority opposed to public financing of professional sports facilities. As usual, proponents of publicly financed stadiums would like to cast public opinion in the distorted light of wishful thinking. They are the ones who constitute the minority of Minnesotans. All of would just as soon have these teams here, but people in this state are NOT willing to do anything to keep their professional sports teams. The vast majority of Minnesotans have their priorities right: professional sports is just another form of entertainment and al other forms of entertainment have to function on their own resources, not ours. The fact that the teams have spent the better part of ten years blackmailing and lying and scamming the public and the Legislature about leaving, contracting and/or selling these teams off - but are still here and playing and making millions in profits without new stadia is the best answer to the Mark Snyders of the world. Ah yes, history. That old nagging recorded truth. Gets ya right here, doesn't it. Andy Driscoll Saint Paul > From: "Anderson, Mark (GE Infrastructure)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 15:01:24 -0500 > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Subject: [Mpls] Stadium > > Mark Snyder wrote: > That's because there are a lot of people who DO actually want these > discussions to take place because they DO want to ensure that we keep the > Twins and Vikings in Minnesota. Part of this is due to the connection we have > with these teams and part of it is recognizing that keeping these teams costs > a heck of a lot less than trying to attract new ones. One only needs to look > at the saga of the North Stars and the Wild to recognize this. > > Now while there may be some folks who cannot fathom the civic value that > professional sports teams bring to our core cities and state, they are still a > small minority of our population, albeit a very vocal one. > > Mark Anderson replies: > Mark you absolutely wrong if you say that only a small minority don't want to > spend public money on stadiums. The only referendum we've had on the subject > was in Minneapolis. The MAJORITY voted against spending more than $10 million > on a stadium. As I recall, the referendum passed with a two to one margin. > Personally, I would have voted against spending $1 on a stadium, if I'd had > the option. Based on everything I've heard, I suspect a similar referendum > would go the same way in St. Paul, the suburbs, and outstate. And I think the > pro-stadium folks have blocked such a referendum because they know what the > result would be. Certainly the Mpls politicians have no excuse for supporting > public financing -- they KNOW what their constituents think. > > Mark V Anderson > Bancroft > REMINDERS: > 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Stadium
Amen to a referendum. My vote would be for the businesses to support themselves or sell out to someone else. Baseball and football are businesses. If Carl and Red can't make "enough' money with them then they can sell to someone that will be happy with the profits they can achieve. A taxpayer funded stadium is nothing more than corporate welfare. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Mark Anderson wrote: Mark you absolutely wrong if you say that only a small minority don't want to spend public money on stadiums. The only referendum we've had on the subject was in Minneapolis. The MAJORITY voted against spending more than $10 million on a stadium. As I recall, the referendum passed with a two to one margin. Personally, I would have voted against spending $1 on a stadium, if I'd had the option. Based on everything I've heard, I suspect a similar referendum would go the same way in St. Paul, the suburbs, and outstate. And I think the pro-stadium folks have blocked such a referendum because they know what the result would be. Certainly the Mpls politicians have no excuse for supporting public financing -- they KNOW what their constituents think. REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Stadium
Mark Snyder wrote: That's because there are a lot of people who DO actually want these discussions to take place because they DO want to ensure that we keep the Twins and Vikings in Minnesota. Part of this is due to the connection we have with these teams and part of it is recognizing that keeping these teams costs a heck of a lot less than trying to attract new ones. One only needs to look at the saga of the North Stars and the Wild to recognize this. Now while there may be some folks who cannot fathom the civic value that professional sports teams bring to our core cities and state, they are still a small minority of our population, albeit a very vocal one. Mark Anderson replies: Mark you absolutely wrong if you say that only a small minority don't want to spend public money on stadiums. The only referendum we've had on the subject was in Minneapolis. The MAJORITY voted against spending more than $10 million on a stadium. As I recall, the referendum passed with a two to one margin. Personally, I would have voted against spending $1 on a stadium, if I'd had the option. Based on everything I've heard, I suspect a similar referendum would go the same way in St. Paul, the suburbs, and outstate. And I think the pro-stadium folks have blocked such a referendum because they know what the result would be. Certainly the Mpls politicians have no excuse for supporting public financing -- they KNOW what their constituents think. Mark V Anderson Bancroft REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] the Dennis/Dyna dynamic dialog
Ed Felien writes: Thank you both for a wonderful dialog. You assumed the best in each other, and you took for granted each other cared for your community. Selling of drugs is the obvious cancer eating your neighborhood. I wish everyone who reads this list would appreciate that it is the SELLING of drugs and not the using of drugs that creates those social problems. I don't think any of us care if someone is sitting in their living room stoned on liquor, zoloft, marijuana or crack cocaine. Of course, once they step out of their living room, society has a right and a responsibility to insure that the social interaction of all people is safe and respectful. But, if society makes access to controlled substances illegal, it creates an entrepreneurial opportunity that poor people will use. Dennis responds: Without a doubt, the sale of illegal drugs is one of the more compelling issues neighborhoods like the northside have to deal with. However, it's not the most important. As one would probably suspect, most of the individuals selling illegal narcotics at the street-level are aware enough of how the legal system works that they are not going to get caught for anything for which they will serve any significant amount of jail-time for. The whole basis for the argument that if we legalized drugs, the problems would end in neighborhoods such as mine is flawed in that the individuals currently involved in this endeavor aren't going to one day wake-up and say "it was a good gig while it lasted, now it's time to do something legal and meaningful with my life". Most would move-on to the easiest, most profitable, least competitve business they could find to involve themselves with. Unless of course, we as a society change something significant. I personally don't think drugs has much to do with the real issue at all. Dennis Plante Jordan _ Find great local high-speed Internet access value at the MSN High-Speed Marketplace. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Jennings: School system is broken
Jennings has proposed eliminating tenure rights for teachers, and is quoted as saying that an "outside force" is needed to reform the school system. Question: What kind of outside force is needed to strip away teacher tenure rights? Answer: Strikebreakers / scab teachers. Teachers without tenure rights have very few rights that the district's administration must respect. The only way to take away those rights at the bargaining table is to present a credible threat of breaking a strike over that issue and getting rid of the union altogether. Teachers don't have tenure rights until they complete 3 years of employment. The state's teacher tenure law permits the district to fire any teacher for cause, including ineffectiveness, but does not allow teachers to appeal a decision to terminate their contract until after they have completed 3 years of employment with the district. Two other proposals that Jennings came up with recently include 1) breaking the district into 4 or 5 smaller districts and 2) contracting out all of the district's direct educational services to charter schools. Both of these proposals would put the district in a much stronger position at the bargaining table by making it easier to break a strike. I have proposed the creation of "teacher in training" positions for the least experienced teachers who are hired by the district. The idea would be to scatter these positions more or less evenly throughout the district. These would be temporary positions (generally no more than 3 years). The rest of the teaching positions would be filled through the current bidding process. This proposal would initially reduce opportunities for teachers to transfer to the districts "better schools." I have found that this idea has some support among MPS teachers and parents as a way to better integrate and train new teachers. If the board really wanted to do a better job of retaining and educating students, the board would stop spending money on initiatives that don't improve the quality of education received by the low performing students. Utilize Arts for Academic Achievement and other approaches that have been used successfully to phase out "low ability" curriculum tracks. Minneapolis will attract rather than repel K-12 students when instruction for the general student population is based on a college-bound curriculum and individualized planning, and when all the schools become good schools. -Doug Mann, King Field http://educationright.tripod.com - In a message dated 2/6/2004 9:40:05 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: "The problem with Jennings' declaration that the system is broken (no one will claim that there aren't serious problems) is that it comes immediately after squandering an opportunity to make changes in teacher assignment policy; the ink isn't even dry on the recent contract, and without any realistic plan to make changes..." REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Hints for living in the "Hood": (was Re: [Mpls] Riding the Bus)
Dyna Sluyter wrote: Several are owned by landlords who seem to have no qualms with renting to drug dealers, pimps, etc.. WM.: With your CCP/SAFE team, you can get at these folks through RECAP. I have tried virtually everything you and the other respondents have suggested. Been there, done that, and we still have daily drug dealing on my block. WM: Sometimes, when the clothes are really dirty, you have to run them through the wash more than once. First, painting the trim will do nothing to chase criminals away. WM: Yes, it will. The dealers like to nest in where they will be less noticeable. They stick out like a sore thumb in a tidy area. They want to stick out to their customers and they always use trash as one signal. Trash claims territory. Sagging homes, porches, paint jobs, few fences, etc. are clues they look for to claim as nesting places. Second, any investment in this dying neighborhood is likely to be lost- if my home will be worthless in a few years anyway, it makes no economic sense to spend thousands to paint it to city specification. BTW, the city owns the land on two sides of me and has yet to offer any assistance in forming a block club, etc.. WM: The city will help you out, but they won't intrude unless you request their help. Yet the same city is quite willing to imprison disabled citizens because they cannot paint trim twenty feet up. The city of Minneapolis has thusly become the problem rather than the solution. WM: Paint-a-thon, churches, etc. --many programs to help you paint up. And the OVERWHELMING majority of us law abiding citizens are held prisoner in our homes while criminals control the streets. Dennis Plant below: You more so than most Dyna should understand and be senstive to the fact that North Minneapolis is dealing with an extremely dynamic cultural change. We need to afford different cultures AND different lifestyles the right to exist. We are no longer an Ozzie & Harriet society. WM: There is a god. The immigrants are leaving Hawthorn for the better deals in the suburbs and rural areas. The "cultures" moving into Hawthorne tend to be criminal rather than ethnic, WM: We're expecting immigrants by the boat- or plane-load soon. The whole thing could change in a heartbeat. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Jennings: School system is broken
The problem with Jennings' declaration that the system is broken ( no one will claim that there aren't serious problems) is that it comes immediately after squandering an opportunity to make changes in teacher assignment policy; the ink isn't even dry on the recent contract, and without any realistic plan to make changes. What are the "outside forces" that he sees as the only way to "get it right and make it real?" Dan McGuire Ericsson REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: Skipperliner
The Park Board is not the only one using White House mathematics. Here is how Skipperliner markets their Boats to potential buyers. Weddings are a winning stategy. U.S. Weddings per Year2,300,000 U.S. Wedding Market Value. $40,000,000,000 Average Dollar per Wedding: $17,391 Your Boat: Sleek Motoryacht or Nostalgtic Paddlewheeler Your Competition: The windowless banquet hall or overpriced event center Your Bottom line 100 Events= $1,739,100 in revenue* NPBT= $189,210* *These numbers are esimates based upon a succesful operation This is taken directly from a Skipperliner brochure. Also keep in mind that Skipperliner is just trying to sell boats. Does the Park Board have a gaurantee with Skipperliner to operate the boats for the full term of the contract? J Gaspardo White Bear Lake _ Keep up with high-tech trends here at "Hook'd on Technology." http://special.msn.com/msnbc/hookedontech.armx REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Hints for living in the "Hood": (was Re: [Mpls] Riding the Bus)
On 2/6/04 1:58 AM, "Dyna Sluyter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Here is where you join the chorus in blaming the victim. First, > painting the trim will do nothing to chase criminals away. Second, any > investment in this dying neighborhood is likely to be lost- if my home > will be worthless in a few years anyway, it makes no economic sense to > spend thousands to paint it to city specification. BTW, the city owns > the land on two sides of me and has yet to offer any assistance in > forming a block club, etc.. Yet the same city is quite willing to > imprison disabled citizens because they cannot paint trim twenty feet > up. The city of Minneapolis has thusly become the problem rather than > the solution. Does "the city" help anyone form block clubs? I thought neighborhood groups did that. I know Hawthorne Area Community Council certainly promoted block clubs back when I used to work for them. Give them a call at (612) 529-6033 and I'm sure they'd be happy to help connect you with other interested neighbors. As for the peeling paint, my experience with city inspectors is that they'll work with you if you show some actual inclination to get the work done. One of my fraternity's houses was cited late last year for peeling paint, but it was too late in the season for us to arrange for painting. So we were given until late this spring to get it done. And we will. City inspections only gets nasty on folks who refuse to take responsibility for the property they own. The argument about what makes economic sense and what doesn't is completely irrelevant. The ordinance is the same whether you live in Hawthorne or Longfellow and if it were enforced differently, that's what would make the city "the problem rather than the solution." If you aren't willing to maintain your property, sell it now and move someplace where you won't be responsible for that. I hear the vacancy rates on apartments are pretty high right now, so you might find a good deal. After all, you're gonna lose any investment you have in your house anyway, right? So why not cut out and run now rather than go down with the sinking ship? Mark Snyder Windom Park REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Paint-a-thon
For those who need a little painting help, or who know a neighbor who does: http://www.gmcc.org/paint-a-thon/ The paint-a-thon by the GMCC (Greater Minneapolis Council of Churches) paints homes every year in mid-summer for those that meet the criteria (elderly or disabled). Check it out. Applications due by May 10th, 2004 Paint-a-thon weekend August 7-8, 2004 If you, your co-workers, or your business would like to volunteer: http://www.gmcc.org/paint-a-thon/paint-a-thon%20regteams%20main.html Waiting for the long, hot days of summer... Sean Ryan Audubon _ Optimize your Internet experience to the max with the new MSN Premium Internet Software. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200359ave/direct/01/ REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Hints for living in the "Hood": (was Re: [Mpls] Riding the Bus)
On Thursday, February 5, 2004, at 03:33 PM, Dennis Plante wrote: Dyna, if I'm not mistaken the average city block contains twenty-six houses. You mentioned that you have two problem houses on your block. What about the neighbors living in the other twenty-three houses? Actually there are about 20 housing structures on the block with several unoccupied. Several are owned by landlords who seem to have no qualms with renting to drug dealers, pimps, etc.. What have you done to change your immediate situation? I have tried virtually everything you and the other respondents have suggested. Been there, done that, and we still have daily drug dealing on my block. Have you called on the trespassers at the foreclosed property? Repeatedly. Do you actively watch and call on the other drug house? Repeatedly, and MPD is quite aware of it. It is one of a network in the neighborhood. If the NIMBY's had been able to shut down the dairy the drug trade would be Hawthrorn's largest business. First, I've found that when I actually take the time and effort to find-out how best to deal with a problem that immediately impacts me, the officials (servants), whether they be city, county, or state employees have all met, or exceeded my expectations. MPD has done an excellent job of taking the felons off our streets, only to have them released by our bleeding heart judges and underfunded jails and prisons. Second, I want the city to come down hard on housing violations. I and many of my neighbors have invested heavily of ourselves in the form of both our money and our time in this neighborhood. We are trying dilligently to rid ourselves of uncaring slumlords, renters AND homeowners. As you're well aware Dyna, being a homeowner saddles an individual with home maintenance costs, regardless of where you live. I would be very sympathetic to your "peeling paint issue" if I felt that the City were singling you out unfairly. It seems to me however that your complaint is more tied to the fact that you don't think it matters (whether or not you paint your trim) because of the other problems facing your immediate neighborhood. Have you ever stopped to consider that maybe a crimminal-type feels more comfortable causing trouble in a neighborhood where all the houses have peeling paint? Usually, if something looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. The City, County, or State can't solve these problems for you Dyna. You have to play an active part. Here is where you join the chorus in blaming the victim. First, painting the trim will do nothing to chase criminals away. Second, any investment in this dying neighborhood is likely to be lost- if my home will be worthless in a few years anyway, it makes no economic sense to spend thousands to paint it to city specification. BTW, the city owns the land on two sides of me and has yet to offer any assistance in forming a block club, etc.. Yet the same city is quite willing to imprison disabled citizens because they cannot paint trim twenty feet up. The city of Minneapolis has thusly become the problem rather than the solution. I greatly take exception to this stereo-typing. In a prison yard, with the exception of the very few that have been wrongly accused, tried, convicted and sentenced, you're dealing w/ crimminals. In north Minneapolis, the OVERWHELMING majority of the citizens are both law-abiding and pose no threat to other individuals. And the OVERWHELMING majority of us law abiding citizens are held prisoner in our homes while criminals control the streets. You more so than most Dyna should understand and be senstive to the fact that North Minneapolis is dealing with an extremely dynamic cultural change. We need to afford different cultures AND different lifestyles the right to exist. We are no longer an Ozzie & Harriet society. The immigrants are leaving Hawthorn for the better deals in the suburbs and rural areas. The "cultures" moving into Hawthorne tend to be criminal rather than ethnic, doin' time in Hawthorn, Dyna Sluyter REMINDERS: 1. Think a member has violated the rules? Email the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
