[Mpls] RE: Broadband Availability?

[Ray Marshall]

Tim Salo makes some very good points.

Availability being one of them, I would like to make some points regarding
that.  I've not seen a figure for Minneapolis, but I have seen figures for
North America saying that 68% of the population has Internet service,
whatever that means.  That means, I would assume, that 32% doesn't have
Internet service.

The major question is, would they want it and use it if they had Internet
service.  I would contend that a very large proportion of them would not
want it, for various reasons:

1.  Those who work on computers all day at work who do not want to spend
time with a computer when they get home.
2.  Those with large families who are exhausted between work and family
responsibility
3.  People who have two, three or four jobs, and/or work double shifts
because they need to have them
to survive, or want to have them, to save money for something or pay bills.
4.  People who spend the major part of their free time as care-givers to
family members, friends or with charities.
5.  People who have time consuming hobbies like hunting, fishing, playing or
watching
sports, carpentry, sewing, home improvements, pets, etc.
6.  Serious alcoholics, drug addicts and criminals who spend much of their
time in anti social behavior
7.  People, mostly immigrants, mostly older, who can't read.
8   People who can't afford the WIFI apparatus, the seriously poor and
homeless.
9.  People who are television addicts
10.People who love to read books
11.Elderly and handicapped, who are living longer because of better
medicine, an increasingly larger percentage of the society.  But they are
not necessarily living active lives.
12.People who can't read well or at all because of the lack of a good
education.
13.People who are mentally deficient (IQ below 80 or so)
14.People who can't type well
15.Blind people who have not yet been accommodated by the computer industry.
16.People in religious communities or other institutions who are not allowed
access to computers.

Before Minneapolis decides to spend scads of money to provide universal
Internet Service in the City, including the border areas where residents
probably will be able to get it from adjacent communities, lots of
discussion needs to be had.  We are not a Mountain View or a Sunnyvale.
Right now, I would vote for more Police and Community Service Officers than
I would for municipal broadband.


Ray Marshall
Hiawatha

--


Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:08:24 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Timothy J. Salo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Broadband Availability?

Availability and affordability _are_ different.  As Minneapolis and
Saint Paul consider major investments in public Internet services,
I believe that it is important to understand and agree on what problems
are being solved.  As far as I can tell, there are some for whom the
objective is availability, (perhaps because they don't believe broadband
services are available in low-income areas, as the previous e-mail
seemed to suggest, or perhaps because they want citywide WiFi service,
which isn't currently available), and there are others for whom the
objective is lower price.  It appears to me that there may not be a
consensus on what problem citywide Internet service, wireless or
otherwise, should solve. 
***

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[Mpls] RE: St. Anthony: What's in a Name

[Ray Marshall]

I'd guess Stillwater, and Dakotah County

Ray Marshall
Hiawatha

--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 12:04:47 -0500
From: "Steve Brandt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Mpls] Minneapolis:  What's in a name?


For those looking to the East Bank for guidance on anniversary celebrations,
the town formerly known as St. Anthony observed its sesquicentennial in
1999, the 150th anniversary of the platting of the townsite.  I have the
sesquicentennial poster at my desk.

For bonus points:  What county was St. Anthony located in when the townsite
plat was filed, and in which city was the plat filed?

For more info on St. Anthony's hsitory, see 7-3-99 Star Tribune.

Steve Brandt
Star Tribune
***

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Re: [Mpls] RE: Broadband Availability?

[Dan McGuire]

Ray Marshall wrote:


The major question is, would they want it and use it if they had Internet
service.  I would contend that a very large proportion of them would not
want it, for various reasons:

 

Trying to decide who will want something that hasn't been created and 
delivered yet is ...well, not very useful.  The internet of the future 
(five years from now) will be very different from what we have today, 
especially if access to it is free and the offerings over it are 
expanded exponentially as they almost surely will be.



Before Minneapolis decides to spend scads of money to provide universal
Internet Service in the City, including the border areas where residents
probably will be able to get it from adjacent communities, lots of
discussion needs to be had.  We are not a Mountain View or a Sunnyvale.
Right now, I would vote for more Police and Community Service Officers than
I would for municipal broadband.
 

And I say, before Mpls spends scads of money we need to have more 
discussion to determine whether or not spending the money is even 
necessary.  Somebody like Google might build it for us. There's lots of 
money to be made delivering products and services over a free public wifi.

Dan McGuire
Ericsson
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Re: [Mpls] Council races - who, and why?

[Gary Hoover]

Mike, thanks for the thoughtful response on this topic.

I agree with you that "energy" and specifically the rising costs of energy 
will significantly shape city issues in the future.


"Peak Oil" and "Peak Natural Gas" are like sustainability with teeth.  Mom 
Nature is about to bite us in the butt pretty hard.  We've made about 60 
years of serious mistakes regarding energy.  All of these mistakes are going 
to create an environmental crisis.  Too late to say "I wish we'd listened to 
Jimmy Carter" and so now we are painted into a tight corner.  The solutions 
will largely be local and community-based.


We are unlikely to see the political will to address these issues apart from 
local support for escalation of energy resource wars.  Rybak and McLaughlin 
and City Council candidates prefer to remain silent.  For the DFL, it is all 
good environmental and economic news all the time, an easy energy future, 
and always time to build more roads and a bigger airport.


In spite of rhetoric to the contrary and window-dressing projects for the 
environment and energy sustainability, we see nearly all of our urban 
infrastructure development focused on unsustainable investments.  I don't 
know the dollar percentage, but I'd guess that we spend less than 2% of our 
public infrastructure development money toward creating new sustainable 
infrastructure in town.


Which candidates for City Council are making a case for sustainability with 
any kind of integrity?  Have any of them put their money where their mouth 
is in terms of sustainability?  Which ones have spent time directly on 
developing sustainable urban infrastructure?  Dean Zimmerman and Lisa 
McDonald are the only two I know of at this point.


The working poor in Minneapolis will suffer disproportionately, but they are 
kept busy struggling to survive and will be the last to know when the energy 
bills and food bills double in the next few months.  then how will they 
continue to make rent or mortgage payments that are already a stretch?  Have 
any of the city council candidates brought this up?


We need to develop an energy budget based on how much energy we can 
sustainably harvest through wind and solar in our bioregion, and then make 
this project the economic driver for Minneapolis.


-- pedaling for peace and ecojustice from Lynnhurst -- Gary Hoover 


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Re: [Mpls] Re: Mpls Council Races - Who and Why?

[Gary Hoover]

Thanks to Jan Del Calzo for directly addressing the Ward 13 City Council 
race.  Of the two candidates, I'm leaning toward Lisa McDonald as well.


Lisa is the more experienced of the two candidates, is fiscally responsible, 
and also understands environmental issues as related to economic and 
infrastructure development.


I do not know much about Betsy Hodges.  So far I've talked to a couple of 
folks with lawn signs for Betsy, and they say that they like and respect her 
as a person.  I think that speaks well of her, but it does not convince me 
that she would do better on the City council than Lisa.


Any further civil discussion of the Ward 13 race?  this is the ward I live 
in now, and so I am interested in understanding the race as much as 
possible.  I would really like to see civil and reasoned discussion on the 
list comparing the two candidates. I don't really think we ought to get into 
rhetoric to persuade strong supporters of one candidate to switch to 
another -- that is unlikely -- but reasoned discussion could really help us 
understand the issues and the candidates.


-- pedaling for peace and ecojustice from Lynnhurst -- Gary Hoover 


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[Mpls] Google's Free WiFi

[Timothy J. Salo]

> Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 23:08:24 -0500 (CDT)
> From: "Timothy J. Salo"
> Subject: Re: [Mpls] Broadband Availability?
>   [...]
> > The end of for-fee basic Internet access is near. Google has bid on  
> > San Francisco's citywide wireless - 300 kbps anywhere in the city for  
> > FREE, and wholesale access sold to competing service providers (how  
> > 'bout that - more than a choice between the cable company or the  
> > phone company). Minneapolis shouldn't accept anything less.
> > 
> > http://gigaom.com/2005/09/30/google-confirms-san-francisco-wifi-plans/ 
> > #more-5153

This article in the San Franscisco Chronicle says that "Google Inc. has
offered to blanket San Franscisco with free wireless Internet access at
no cost to the city..."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/10/01/MNGG9F16KG1.DTL

This will be a _very_ interesting experiment to watch.

o   It demonstrates how quickly things can change dramatically in
Internet markets.

o   It may make municipal investment in citywide WiFi networks
more difficult, (e.g., "Why don't we just wait for Google?").
Or, to respond to the original writer's quip, perhaps 
"Minneapolis shouldn't pay anything more."

o   If San Franscisco _doesn't_ accept Google's offer, we will
all want to know why.

o   Over the longer term, it will be really interesting to see
how well this model works.

CNET also has a nice collection of articles about municipal WiFi:

http://news.com.com/2009-7351_3-5888529.html

-tjs
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[Mpls] I agree with Michael Hohmann

[Mark Hanson]

I appreciate Michael Hohmann's articulate discussion of the cost/benefits of 
city government, and laying out what the future might be for all of us.  He 
expressed several points that I've been thinking about, but haven't written 
down.


He provides a good template of questions that all candidates should address 
in the next 4 weeks.


Trying to stay dry in Prospect Park
Mark Hanson


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RE: [Mpls] I agree with Michael Hohmann

[Michael Atherton]

 
Mark Hanson wrote:

> I appreciate Michael Hohmann's articulate discussion of the 
> cost/benefits of city government, and laying out what the 
> future might be for all of us.  He expressed several points 
> that I've been thinking about, but haven't written down.
> 
> He provides a good template of questions that all candidates 
> should address in the next 4 weeks.

I normally agree with Michael Hohmann opinions as well.
I'm very disappointed that he didn't succeed in the primary
because he could have contributed significantly to a discussion
of the issues.  I hope that Mr. Hohmann will consider running
for a citywide office in the future so that I can have a
chance to vote for him.  

Michael Atherton
Prospect Park






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[Mpls] Library and Wi Fi

[Krueger, Rodney]

Public and academic libraries across the country are moving quickly to step up 
their high-tech offerings with Wi-Fi (wireless fidelity) technology.
 
An added benefit of the Wi-Fi service is that it frees up the library's 
computers for those who don't have a computer or Internet access at home.

Many major library systems throughout the Twin Cities area are adding wireless 
Internet connections so patrons can use their personal laptop computers at the 
library
 
The new Central Library in Minneapolis will have wireless connections and the 
branch/community libraries are to follow.

The number of computers in the new Central Library has increased from the 
original plan of 180 to now more than 300 public access computers.   

The new Central Library is about eight months from the grand opening (Saturday, 
May 20, 2006) and the project remains both on budget and on schedule.


Thank you,

Rod Krueger
Library Board member /  Nokomis East



  [Mpls] Library and Wi Fi
  Theresa Smith

  Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:35:41 -0700

  I ran for library board and didn't make it out of the
  primary (great people, great field of candidates) and
  I really hope one of my talking points gets broader
  discussion: find a way to draw operations funding out
  of the Minneapolis Wi-Fi network that is being put out
  for bid. Certainly, the revenue streams have not yet
  been established and the network hasn't been built,
  but if the Wi-Fi network is connected with the library
  system in some way (content-wise and financially), it
  is pretty nice leg up into the 21st Century.

  Jae Bryson
  Tangletown


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[Mpls] Smart for Library Board - Cyber-Campaign

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Samantha Smart for Minneapolis Library Board
Cyber-Campaign: OUTREACH!
please forward to your contacts!


"America why are your libraries full of tears?"
Allen Ginsberg

The mission of the Minneapolis Library Board is to "link the people of 
Minneapolis and beyond with the transforming power of knowledge".  I believe 
this is a beautiful need that can be fulfilled in a myriad of creative and 
dynamic ways, thereby increasing the number of library card holders in the 
City, increasing the amount of materials checked out, expanding the research 
that is done by individuals and groups and enhancing the kinds of programs that 
meet the unique needs of folks in our community.  Here are a few ideas of how 
the Minneapolis Library system can improve its Outreach efforts:

1.  Partner with community groups to offer exciting programs in Library meeting 
rooms - for example: 
link with community garden groups to plan spring gardens over the winter, 
partner with the Minnesota Spoken Word Association and SASE: The Write Place to 
offer youth Poetry Slams, author readings and writing workshops
work with "new immigrant" community groups to hold English classes and other 
activities that assist new residents of the City
Work with community groups to offer film series across the City
the possibilities are endless...
2.  Work with community schools in increase youth literacy - for example:
encourage schools to plan field trips to libraries to teach youth how to do 
research
start youth book clubs and read-a-thons that will ignite the desire to read
3.  Bring back The People's University to the libraries to provide a platform 
for skill and information-sharing on a  
 no-cost basis in order to provide life-long continuing education

4.  Take the Library to the streetsfor example:
Re-fund the Bookmobile as a top priority!
Examine and adopt models from other U.S. cities wherein Outreach staff leave 
the library and bring books, magazines and computers to street corners to 
engage folks who may never have used the library before
Recruit Outreach staff that look like and speak like our changing City - 
including speakers of Spanish, Hmong and African dialects

Allen Ginsberg's poem refers to the grief, anger and frustration so many of us 
feel when we are in the library and have found materials that illuminate the 
crisis and tragedy of the global human and natural condition.  By improving 
OUTREACH efforts and bringing more people to the library to learn and develop 
our collective human intelligence - we may surely be able to turn these tears 
into joyful ones, as the transforming power of knowledge is translated into 
positive community action for change.  

I am running for Library Board to make this transformation possible!


Samantha Smart
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.home.earthlink.net/~smartlibraries2005
Smart libraries are OPEN libraries!
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RE: [Mpls] Library and Wi Fi

[Eric Hinsdale]

When I worked for the Metropolitan Library Service Agency in 2001 I treid to 
interest the public library systems in the region in starting wireless 
networking pilot projects.  The Hennepin County Library, with their better 
technical resources,  had already started planning their own wireless 
network.  Indeed, Hennipin County Library's  public wireless network has 
been up for a couple years now and works great.  I often find myself driving 
past Washburn Library all the way to Southdale so I can work on my laptop in 
the Southdale Library.  If we had forward-thinking, tech-savvy library board 
members back then maybe we wouldn't be lagging THREE YEARS behind our 
Hennepin county neighbors in offering this service to the city's residents.


Jae Bryson was on the right track in his recent post when he suggested the 
city's wireless network should be closely aligned with the library's 
electronic collections.  The city of Minneapolis needs to offer more than 
just access:  they need to offer content, too.  The Minneapolis Public 
Library subscribes to many electronic resources that are, in my opinion, 
underused. Making it easy to get to these resources through a city-wide wifi 
network should be a priority as plans for this service go forward.


Eric Hinsdale
Kingfield
www.erichinsdale.com



From: "Krueger, Rodney" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Subject: [Mpls] Library and Wi Fi
Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 11:32:50 -0500


Public and academic libraries across the country are moving quickly to step 
up their high-tech offerings with Wi-Fi (wireless fidelity) technology.


An added benefit of the Wi-Fi service is that it frees up the library's 
computers for those who don't have a computer or Internet access at home.


Many major library systems throughout the Twin Cities area are adding 
wireless Internet connections so patrons can use their personal laptop 
computers at the library


The new Central Library in Minneapolis will have wireless connections and 
the branch/community libraries are to follow.


The number of computers in the new Central Library has increased from the 
original plan of 180 to now more than 300 public access computers.


The new Central Library is about eight months from the grand opening 
(Saturday, May 20, 2006) and the project remains both on budget and on 
schedule.



Thank you,

Rod Krueger
Library Board member /  Nokomis East



  [Mpls] Library and Wi Fi
  Theresa Smith

  Tue, 04 Oct 2005 09:35:41 -0700

  I ran for library board and didn't make it out of the
  primary (great people, great field of candidates) and
  I really hope one of my talking points gets broader
  discussion: find a way to draw operations funding out
  of the Minneapolis Wi-Fi network that is being put out
  for bid. Certainly, the revenue streams have not yet
  been established and the network hasn't been built,
  but if the Wi-Fi network is connected with the library
  system in some way (content-wise and financially), it
  is pretty nice leg up into the 21st Century.

  Jae Bryson
  Tangletown


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[Mpls] Recycling Organics-- Partial Answer to Exploding Energy Costs

[David Strand]

One partial answer to exploding energy costs is
recyclying organics to make gas for heating and other
energy/power needs.  The Green candidates have been
discussing this and exploring it's real potential. 
The rising costs of energy make it a no brainer as the
cost of energy from this source on the scale of the
city might be cheaper than traditional sources now and
also would reduce the rate at which landfill space is
used up.

Other localities have already been investing in this
technology and it's another way to address the
energy/waste costs of our city.

David Strand

--- Gary Hoover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I agree with you that "energy" and specifically the
> rising costs of energy 
> will significantly shape city issues in the future.
> 
> "Peak Oil" and "Peak Natural Gas" are like
> sustainability with teeth.  Mom 
> Nature is about to bite us in the butt pretty hard. 
> We've made about 60 
> years of serious mistakes regarding energy.  All of
> these mistakes are going 
> to create an environmental crisis.  Too late to say
> "I wish we'd listened to 
> Jimmy Carter" and so now we are painted into a tight
> corner.  The solutions 
> will largely be local and community-based.




__ 
Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 
http://mail.yahoo.com
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Re: [Mpls] Council races - who, and why?

[Laura and lloyd]

On Tuesday, October 4, 2005, at 03:07  PM, Michael Hohmann wrote:



I found property taxes to be the top issues on people's minds as I went
door-to-door before the primary.

Other than a somewhat surprising lack of interest, I found some people 
to be concerned about the vagaries of personality or the concerns of 
their particular neighborhood or even block. On the other hand, there 
were those who were very concerned that we not change leadership when 
the challenger has not made his case adequately. Single term mayors are 
not good for the city, they say.




Are the Mayoral and CC candidates (and MPRB, MPL Board and BET 
candidates as

well) going to commit to using and following a multi-year planning and
budgeting process


Or, will we regress back to a deficit-laden, credit card-spending 
mentality


The library board has already committed to a multi year planning and 
budgeting process.




People of modest means and those on fixed incomes are concerned with 
making

ends meet.


Very true. And concerned about not being heard.


The increased cost of energy, post Katrina/Rita, will add millions of
dollars in unexpected costs to City budgets over the next year-- and
thereafter, as energy production lags demand.  How much more money is
expected to be spent on energy by the city (and Park/Library, etc.) 
over the
next year, as compared with the average annual energy expenditure over 
the

past several years?


That's what multi-year budgeting is for, to make those comparisons and 
to know the direction of trends (and later the impact). One mitigating 
factor is that the new Central library is will be vastly more energy 
efficient and as each community library is repaired and/or remodeled, 
energy efficiencies will be seen there.


How much more money is expected to be spent is an area of conjecture. 
Budget forecasts will include that but the guesses could be wrong 
either way.  A goal would be smaller adjustments.


The weakness in the system is that library equipment has been nickled 
and dimed for decades. It's the unexpected cost that throws the budget 
and that should not be. A full examination of operating needs has to 
addressed by the city as part of responsible debt reduction and 
multi-year budgeting that anticipates the needs of depreciated items 
needing repair or replacement at some point.


Best wishes,

Laura
Southeast (Como)


Laura Waterman Wittstock
Candidate for Minneapolis Library Board of Trustees
DFL and Labor endorsed
AFSCME Mn Council 5
AFL-CIO COPE
Minneapolis Building and Trades
Stonewall DFL
Minnesota Women's Political Caucus
www.laurawatermanwittstock.com
http://laurawatermanwittstock.blogspot.com/
Wittstock for Library Committee
913 19th Avenue SE, Mpls, 55414
Minneapolis, MN
612-387-4915

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[Mpls] Cam Gordon Campaign Events - GET PLUGGED IN!

[Tom Taylor]

Saturday is a whole dang day chocked full of fun Cam Campaign activities
that you AND your family can get plug into.

Pick one or pick them all to put a Green in the 2nd Ward Council seat

COME HELP ELECT CAM GORDON!
tt

Tom Taylor
612-788-4252
Sheridan

"Raise less corn and more hell."
Mary Elizabeth Lease

1. Volunteer meeting
Come to our next Saturday morning volunteer coordination meeting. 
Everyone is welcome. Kids too.
9:00 AM - 10:00
at Mayday Bookstore
301 Cedar Ave So
(Next door to Midwest Mountaineering, in the basement under Hub Bike Shop)

2. Noon  - 5 pm  Door knocking with Cam and Robin
(Call 612 296-0579 or 651-338-7688 to join us any time all afternoon)

3. House Party
6:00 - 9:00 PM
at the home of David Luce
426 29th Avenue North
(Questions or Directions call 612 529-3950)

GOOD FOOD  +   GOOD COMPANY   +   GOOD CAUSE

===

www.camgordon.org


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[Mpls] Police seek help finding rape suspect

[List manager]

There is a police sketch of an individual suspected in the two S  
Minneapolis rapes.


http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/news/20051005RapeSuspect.asp

David Brauer
List manager
 
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[Mpls] Six Budgets?

[Greg Abbott]

I saw in today's Strib the following quote from R.T.:

"I will do my next four budgets like I've done the last six, which is  
pay off the credit card, focus on basic services and know when to say  
no," Mayor R.T. Rybak said.


By my count R.T. has "done" only three budgets, 2003, 2004, and 2005,  
with the process for the fourth (2006) underway but not complete.


Did the city go to a semi-annual budgeting process while I wasn't  
looking?


Greg Abbott
Linden Hills 
 
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Re: [Mpls] Six Budgets?

[David Brauer]

On Oct 5, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Greg Abbott wrote:


I saw in today's Strib the following quote from R.T.:

"I will do my next four budgets like I've done the last six, which  
is pay off the credit card, focus on basic services and know when  
to say no," Mayor R.T. Rybak said.


By my count R.T. has "done" only three budgets, 2003, 2004, and  
2005, with the process for the fourth (2006) underway but not  
complete.


Sharon's crew put together a 2002 budget with hastily added but (as I  
remember) undefined cuts. RT and the new council had to put out a  
supplemental 2002 budget, so that's five.


Don't know what he counts as the sixth. Perhaps some other year with  
state cuts forced a two-budget year.


David Brauer
Kingfield
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Re: [Mpls] Six Budgets?

[Dan McGrath]

> I saw in today's Strib the following quote from R.T.:
>
> "I will do my next four budgets like I've done the last six, which is
> pay off the credit card, focus on basic services and know when to say
> no," Mayor R.T. Rybak said.

When has Rybak ever said "no" to anything? His only "veto" was a ridiculous
"veto of inaction," in support of Basim Sabri. This entire statement is a
strange twisting of reality, as though the Mayor has fallen through the
looking glass. Seems to me, what he's actually done is say "YES" to
everything *except* basic services. Our police and fire departments have
been decimated to support everything Rybak has said "yes" to. Perhaps the
mayor and I have a different idea of which services constitute "basic"
services. I was thinking emergency services, roads, lights and water are
"basic services."

Dan McGrath
Longfellow
http://www.smokeoutgary.org

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[Mpls] Caution, Person Approaching!

[Bruce Shoemaker]

As a little side issue on the debate regarding our automobile dominated 
city, something that has annoyed me for years are the downtown parking 
ramps that have speakers out by the sidewalk that issue a loud warning 
of "car approaching" whenever a car is about to leave the ramp and exit 
the driveway into the street. They also have signs that flash "car 
coming." The one I see the most is by the YMCA on 9th Street when I am 
walking up to enter that building or when parking my bike, but there are 
several others downtown as well. The exit driveway is not at a traffic 
light. Legally I would think cars should be stopping for pedestrians on 
the sidewalk. Why are these ramps set up so that it appears to be the 
responsibility of the walker to get out of the way of the car?  If they 
can go to the trouble of installing sensors that tell when a car is 
approaching, why can't they instead install sensors indicating when a 
pedestrian is approaching that warn the drivers to stop?  Or better yet 
force them to stop--they could install tire shredders that emerge from 
beneath the pavement whenever a pedestrian approaches. Safety first!


Bruce Shoemaker
Holland neighborhood
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[Mpls] RE: Broadband Availability?

[Ed Kohler]

I thought I'd take a quick stab at debunking the reasons given for not wanting 
a computer. This isn't to suggest that everyone has to have a computer, but is 
meant to show that the internet access can mean a lot of different things to 
different people.

1.  Those who work on computers all day at work who do not want to spend
time with a computer when they get home.
[Not all sites can be surfed from work: http://www.monster.com]

2.  Those with large families who are exhausted between work and family
responsibility
[Get some time back by using the web to pay bills. http://www.discovercard.com]

3.  People who have two, three or four jobs, and/or work double shifts
because they need to have them
to survive, or want to have them, to save money for something or pay bills.
[They could further their education online in the limited time they have. It 
doesn't sound like they'd have time to attend classes in person. 
http://www.capella.edu]

4.  People who spend the major part of their free time as care-givers to
family members, friends or with charities.
[Donate to charities online. http://www.redcross.org Research ailments your 
family members may be suffering from. http://www.webmd.com]

5.  People who have time consuming hobbies like hunting, fishing, playing or
watching
sports, carpentry, sewing, home improvements, pets, etc.
[Research where to hunt http://www.huntnshack.com, what fishing equipment to 
buy http://www.capellas.com, follow your favorite sport online 
http://www.skinnyski.com, learn some do it yourself tips online 
http://www.doityourself.com, download sewing patterns 
http://www.sewingpatterns.com, watch a video on http://www.HomeDepot.com on how 
to install a ceiling fan, and figure on how to train your dog 
whttp://ww.loveyourdog.com/tricks.html]

6.  Serious alcoholics, drug addicts and criminals who spend much of their
time in anti social behavior
[The web's a great place for anti-social types. They can interact without 
interacting.]

7.  People, mostly immigrants, mostly older, who can't read.
[With help, download or steam news programs in their native language. 
http://www.hmongradio.tv]

8   People who can't afford the WIFI apparatus, the seriously poor and
homeless.
[Those don't qualify as reasons for not wanting it.]

9.  People who are television addicts
[Who like to keep up on their favorite shows at 
http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com]

10.People who love to read books
[And find out what other books are available from their favorite author, or 
other related books worth reading on http://www.Amazon.com]

11.Elderly and handicapped, who are living longer because of better
medicine, an increasingly larger percentage of the society.  But they are
not necessarily living active lives.
[Who are looking for tips on how to live frugally 
http://retireplan.about.com/cs/lifestyles/a/aa_tips_a.htm, interact with people 
without necessarily leaving their home 
http://seniorliving.about.com/mpboards.htm, and want more in-depth news 
coverage than TV provides. http://www.huffingtonpost.com. Of course, the most 
obvious is keeping in touch with friends and family by email.]

12.People who can't read well or at all because of the lack of a good
education.
[Reading makes a person a better reader. Chances are pretty good that just 
about anyone could find something interesting enough to read online to keep 
them interested. http://www.dunation.com , http://www.drudgereport.com , 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/]

13.People who are mentally deficient (IQ below 80 or so)
[Probably not interested in subscribing to the Wall Street Journal online, but 
there is likely appropriate content available. 
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/radio/services/nis/]

14.People who can't type well
[Did you mean Minneapolis:
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=mineaplis ]

15.Blind people who have not yet been accommodated by the computer industry.
[There are plenty of screen readers available. The web is likely more 
accessible than many other forms of media to the blind. 
http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/blind.html#adapt ]

16.People in religious communities or other institutions who are not allowed
access to computers.
[http://www.amish.com/]

The common themes are: easy access to a diverse array of information, 
entertainment, and communication.

If Minneapolis had no internet access today, what would Minneapolis look like? 
If everyone has reliable and affordable access to the internet in Minneapolis, 
what would Minneapolis look like?  

- Ed Kohler

Responding from a T1 Connection from Eden Prairie to a post read on a web 
enabled phone while riding along I-494 from Maple Grove before heading home to 
a cable connection in Cooper.




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[Mpls] Council Member Zimmermann @ Maria's, 10/12, 8 a.m.

[Collins, Natalie M]

Please join 6th Ward Council Member Dean Zimmermann for office hours at
Maria's Cafe, 1113 E Franklin Ave, next Wednesday, October 10 at 8 a.m.
Coffee will be provided, and menu service will be available.  We will
meet in the back room.
 
Beginning at 8 a.m. each second Wednesday, Council Member Zimmermann
will be available to discuss constituents' ideas, questions, and
concerns.
 
For further information, contact the Ward 6 Office, 673-2206.
 
Natalie Collins
Aide to 6th Ward Council Member Dean Zimmermann
(612)673-2206
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
 
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Re: [Mpls] Caution, Person Approaching!

[Dann Dobson]

Sorry, but I have to disagree on this one. 
 
I used to park at the old Armory and the exit was totally blind. I would always 
slowly edge out, but it being so near the Dome, on many evenings people were 
going to games and you could not see them until you were almost on the sidewalk.
 
I think the warning, "Car Approaching" gives pedestrians an appropriate heads 
up that a car is coming.
 
Think of the alternative, no warning at all. Is that what Bruce is advocating?
 
Dann Dobson
Summit Hill - Saint Paul


Bruce Shoemaker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As a little side issue on the debate regarding our automobile dominated 
city, something that has annoyed me for years are the downtown parking 
ramps that have speakers out by the sidewalk that issue a loud warning 
of "car approaching" whenever a car is about to leave the ramp and exit 
the driveway into the street. They also have signs that flash "car 
coming." The one I see the most is by the YMCA on 9th Street when I am 
walking up to enter that building or when parking my bike, but there are 
several others downtown as well. The exit driveway is not at a traffic 
light. Legally I would think cars should be stopping for pedestrians on 
the sidewalk. Why are these ramps set up so that it appears to be the 
responsibility of the walker to get out of the way of the car? If they 
can go to the trouble of installing sensors that tell when a car is 
approaching, why can't they instead install sensors indicating when a 
pedestrian is approaching that warn the drivers to stop? Or better yet 
force them to stop--they could install tire shredders that emerge from 
beneath the pavement whenever a pedestrian approaches. Safety first!

Bruce Shoemaker
Holland neighborhood
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-
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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[Mpls] Bad Bet

[WJKAHN]

Wizard Marks bets:

"My bet is that four or five days before the November election, the FBI
will put an indictment on the table. Any takers?"

I'd take that bet, but since the FBI never brings indictments, I'll give 
Wizard a break. This one is pretty much up to the US Attorney to do.

Bill Kahn
Prospect Park

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[Mpls] In Ballot Box: Airport labor issues in Ward 12

[Craig Cox]

In Ballot Box: Airport labor issues in Ward 12

Go to: 
--
Craig Cox
Founder/Editor
The Minneapolis Observer
www.mplsobserver.com
612/721-0285

Support the independent media! Pick up your neighborhood newspaper!
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[Mpls] RE: Broadband Availability?

[Ray Marshall]

-Original Message-
From: Ed Kohler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:40 PM

Ed, your reasons countering my list are very good reasons to have a computer
with internet access.  There's probably no activity or lifestyle that
couldn't be improved in some way, sometimes minor, by the use of the
Internet.

But just how are you going to contact all those people, 25-30% of the City
of Minneapolis, say, and sit down with them and enroll them in changing
their minds about having a computer?   And then talk them into coming up
with four or five hundred or more for having one so they can take advantage
of the Wi-Fi that is available at no charge, right in their very own
neighborhood?

Sending them emails isn't going to work!  

It's hard for you geeks with T1 Connections who can be in  "Eden Prairie and
replying to a post read on a web enabled phone while riding along I-494 from
Maple Grove before heading home to a cable connection in Cooper" to realize
that not every wants to do that.

I personally can't get along without my computer and I'm sure I'll go
broadband in some fashion one of these days.

But I don't need it.  I don't download humungous files of movies or music.
The only time that I notice my computer being slow is the occasional large
message, opening pdf files and accessing some web pages that have scads of
images on them.  And as far as I know, that may be their problem if their
server is undersized or getting unusually heavy traffic.

Just as I see that 25% of the city doesn't need it or want it and I can't
see what would change their mind.

Ray Marshall
Hiawatha



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[Mpls] Broadband/Public Accesss/Libraries

[Becca Vargo Daggett]

Catching up from being out of town, so I'm lumping several responses  
into one.


Broadband:
1. The message Tim Salo cited without attribution was mine. He wrote:


Maybe this is an example of the differences between technologists
and policy people.  Technologists use technology to easily meet,
and even exceed, the goal or intent of a rule, while policy people
think more about the rule itself.


I'm no Luddite, but I don't believe in the supreme benevolence of  
technology, or technologists. Microsoft technology filters words like  
"democracy" from China-based web sites, at the request of the Chinese  
government. Technologists meeting or exceeding the goal and intent of  
the rule, but not rules many of us would want to live by. Examples  
from other sectors abound. Clearly rules matter, and who makes the  
rules matters.


Broadband and technology convergence present us with at least two  
major problems that require the attention of policy makers. First,  
the single greatest predictor of whether or not a household has a  
broadband connection is household income. Second, if all of our  
information and communications are going to travel the same high- 
speed networks, it matters who controls those networks and how  
traffic is managed. On the first point it might be possible to rely  
on the fact that as the technology advances it will become cheaper  
and eventually reach everyone. On the second, the public sector must  
be proactive to counter the profit-taking inclination of the private  
sector.


As for ideas on addressing the policy questions we face, I've yet to  
read any suggestions from you, Tim. I've put my ideas out there -  
what are yours?


I believe that before Minneapolis or Saint Paul makes a major  
investment

in a new project, there should be a good consensus on the goals and
objectives for the project.  There should, I believe, be a solid plan
that is likely to achieve those objectives, that is based on evidence
and analysis, and that embodies an adequate understanding of the  
relevant
technical and market characteristics of the technologies being  
proposed.


We don't disagree on this. This is what I've been saying all along.  
Minneapolis has two goals in this: to meet municipal communications  
needs, and to narrow the digital divide. What keeps getting lost in  
this debate is that the purpose of the RFP is to obtain municipal  
services. The requirements are laid out clearly in the RFP.


Ray Marshall presenting this as some kind of choice between spending  
on network infrastructure or spending on public safety is incorrect.  
The City plans to use the network for public safety. The question is,  
would we save money on public safety and other municipal information  
and communications services if we owned the infrastructure?


Now we need to compare the costs and benefits of public ownership  
with those of purchasing services from the owner of a private  
network. We need to see the feasibility study, as the citizens of  
Saint Louis Park have. We need to know what analysis is behind the  
decision in favor of private ownership, or if the choice simply stems  
from fact that the consultant used to be president of the Minnesota  
Telecom Association and has connections to industry. We need to know  
if what the City is requesting (coverage of every square inch of the  
city, with no dead zones) is technically possible.


2. Dan McGuire wrote:
And I say, before Mpls spends scads of money we need to have more  
discussion to determine whether or not spending the money is even  
necessary.  Somebody like Google might build it for us. There's  
lots of money to be made delivering products and services over a  
free public wifi.


Dan makes a good point in that WiFi (or whatever) is just the medium.  
The money is in delivering services. That's why it would make more  
sense for the City to own the network infrastructure and seek  
competitive bids for services over the network than to tie itself to  
a long-term contract for services at a premium from the owner of a  
private network. Remember, the accounting life of fiber-based  
networks is 20 years.


Cable: Mike Wassenaar gives a great summary of how some members of  
Congress would gut public access and local authority to require  
franchise agreements. I highly recommend that supporters of MTN (and  
I know there are many on the list) contact him about what they can do  
to protect public access at both the state and federal levels.


For more than 20 years, cable companies have been trying to shirk  
their franchise obligations, but retain access to rights of way and a  
local monopoly. Why would the City think companies will behave any  
differently with broadband networks?


Libraries: If the City of Minneapolis owned its network  
infrastructure and had, for example, fiber connections to every  
library and school, it could use those connections to support free  
wireless not just in the building, but 

[Mpls] Spokesman-Recorder: Who's guarding the city's jewels?

[Jason C Stone]

Article by Rashard Zanders, highlighting Park Commissioner Rochelle 
Berry-Graves.

* * *

Who’s guarding the city’s jewels?
By: Rashard Zanders
Minnesota Spokesman-Recorder
Originally posted 10/5/2005

A veteran commissioner explains why the upcoming park board elections deserve 
our close attention

Playfully scrawled beneath the Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board’s (MPRB) 
website header are
the words “Playing for Life,” with each letter a different color. This suggests 
that the
stewardship of the city’s nearly 6,400 acres of parks and open greens paces is 
a light and fun
affair in which cordial and selfless commissioners staunchly defend our urban 
parklands against
threats from developers.

But the reality is different. A culture of backdoor wheeling and dealing now 
dominates the park
board, increasingly at the expense of the parkland, waters, and open green 
space the board is
entrusted to protect.

.
.
.

http://www.spokesman-recorder.com/News/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=62215&sID=4

Jason Stone
Diamond Lake
Candidate for Park District 5
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[Mpls] An Apology to the Mayor

[m1r3201]

Though I doubt Mayor Rybak stays up nights worrying about my posts on this 
list, nonetheless I owe him a public apology.

I believe that my post regarding some advocates meeting with him regarding 
panhandling issues was unprincipled and quite unfair on my part. I fell into 
the 
scorched earth policy of heaping venom just for the sake of doing it. 

I can also say that this is a freely given apology. No one gave me a 
talking-to and made me do this. 

For those of you who don't even remember the post, don't worry.

Since I have said in the past that if a person is willing to post criticism 
on this list, they should post an apology and own up when they have been an 
idiotI am trying to follow my own rhetoric.

And besides, for those of you thinking "Why is she apologizing about this, I 
think she is an idiot anyway", it gives you an opportunity to feel affirmed.

Anyway, although my facts were straight on what I posted, my accusing the 
Mayor of having some bad intent was way off the mark. He simply, in good faith 
met with some providers. My accusing him of having bad intentions was a cheap 
shot.

As to my reasons for getting so worked up on that meeting...well, that has 
nothing to do with Mayor in this instance.

I will leave it at that.

Margaret Hastings
Kingfield
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[Mpls] Re: Spokesman-Recorder: Who's guarding the city's jewels?

[Jason C Stone]

If that link breaks, try this one : http://tinyurl.com/cnevu

Jason Stone
Diamond Lake

--- Jason C Stone <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Article by Rashard Zanders, highlighting Park Commissioner Rochelle 
> Berry-Graves.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Who’s guarding the city’s jewels?
> By: Rashard Zanders
> Minnesota Spokesman-Recorder
> Originally posted 10/5/2005
> 
> A veteran commissioner explains why the upcoming park board elections deserve 
> our close
> attention
> 
> Playfully scrawled beneath the Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board’s (MPRB) 
> website header are
> the words “Playing for Life,” with each letter a different color. This 
> suggests that the
> stewardship of the city’s nearly 6,400 acres of parks and open greens paces 
> is a light and fun
> affair in which cordial and selfless commissioners staunchly defend our urban 
> parklands against
> threats from developers.
> 
> But the reality is different. A culture of backdoor wheeling and dealing now 
> dominates the park
> board, increasingly at the expense of the parkland, waters, and open green 
> space the board is
> entrusted to protect.
> 
> .
> .
> .
> 
> http://www.spokesman-recorder.com/News/Article/Article.asp?NewsID=62215&sID=4
> 
> Jason Stone
> Diamond Lake
> Candidate for Park District 5
> 

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[Mpls] RE: Council Member Zimmermann @ Maria's, 10/12, 8 a.m.

[Collins, Natalie M]

Sorry for the date error in the previous message!  Dean's breakfast is October 
12.

Natalie Collins
Aide to 6th Ward Council Member Dean Zimmermann
(612)673-2206
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-Original Message-
From: Collins, Natalie M 
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 3:35 PM
To: Zimmermann, Dean G
Subject: Council Member Zimmermann @ Maria's, 10/12, 8 a.m.

Please join 6th Ward Council Member Dean Zimmermann for office hours at Maria's 
Cafe, 1113 E Franklin Ave, next Wednesday, October 12 at 8 a.m.  Coffee will be 
provided, and menu service will be available.  We will meet in the back room.
 
Beginning at 8 a.m. each second Wednesday, Council Member Zimmermann will be 
available to discuss constituents' ideas, questions, and concerns.
 
For further information, contact the Ward 6 Office, 673-2206.

Natalie Collins
Aide to 6th Ward Council Member Dean Zimmermann
(612)673-2206
[EMAIL PROTECTED]





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Re: [Mpls] Council races - who, and why?

[Dyna]

"Peak Oil" and "Peak Natural Gas" are like sustainability with 
teeth.  Mom Nature is about to bite us in the butt pretty hard. 
We've made about 60 years of serious mistakes regarding energy.  All 
of these mistakes are going to create an environmental crisis.  Too 
late to say "I wish we'd listened to Jimmy Carter" and so now we are 
painted into a tight corner.  The solutions will largely be local 
and community-based.


	Agreed... Unfortunately our incumbent mayor seems to be 
waiting for the gas pumps to run dry before considering any action. 
In contrast Peter McLaughlin has been bringing us sustainable 
transportation for the over a decade he has served on the Hennepin 
County board. Long before we heard of "E85", over a decade ago, under 
Peter's leadership Hennepin County trucks were testbeds for ethanol. 
As chair of the Regional Railroad Authority Peter helped preserve 
rail right of ways for future use, saving them from greedy land 
speculators. Peter tirelessly fought for our roaringly successful 
light rail line, and the network of transit corridors he has 
assembled will provide us with sustainable transportation for decades 
to come. And thanks to Peter's persistence Hennipen County has built 
an energy efficient new public works building largely from recycled 
materials, and many of the trucks based their run on 20% biodiesel 
fuel. Meanwhile Minneapolis city workers tool around in the same old 
gas guzzlers, while R.T. maintains a green image with a Prius hybrid 
paid for by us taxpayers. Given his forgetfulness in securing said 
vehicle, it might be wiser to give R.T. a Metro Transit pass so he 
can enjoy the Light Rail line Peter brought us.


The working poor in Minneapolis will suffer disproportionately, but 
they are kept busy struggling to survive and will be the last to 
know when the energy bills and food bills double in the next few 
months.  then how will they continue to make rent or mortgage 
payments that are already a stretch?


	Agreed- thanks to the Cold Weather Rule most of us will have 
warm homes this winter. But many non profits and small businesses 
exempt from the rule will be forced out of business by soaring gas 
bills this winter. the real crunch comes next spring when many 
homeowners and landlords will have to mortgage their properties to 
pay gas bills or abandon them.


We need to develop an energy budget based on how much energy we can 
sustainably havest through wind and solar in our bioregion, and then 
make this project the economic driver for Minneapolis.


	Agreed. Peter McLaughlin at mid career has already given us a 
legacy of sustainable transportation and development while R.T. has 
left us... a worn out Prius. So the choice is simple- we need to give 
Peter McLaughlin the mayorship, and R.T. the Prius as part of his 
severance package before it needs a $5000 computer, motor, battery, 
etc


hangin' in Hawthorne,

Dyna Sluyter
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[Mpls] Mayoral Hopefuls Stick to Issues in First Post-Primary Debate

[Craig Cox]

Mayoral Hopefuls Stick to Issues in First Post-Primary Debate

In their first debate since the primary election, Mayor R.T. Rybak 
and challenger Peter McLaughlin covered familiar ground, but mostly 
avoided the contentiousness that marked many of their earlier public 
encounters.


Go to: 
--
Craig Cox
Founder/Editor
The Minneapolis Observer
www.mplsobserver.com
612/721-0285

Support the independent media! Pick up your neighborhood newspaper!
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Re: [Mpls] Obfuscate

[Diane Wiley]

according to my handy dandy computer dictionary,  obfuscate is a verb which
means "make unclear or unintelligible" from the Latin obfuscare, which
means, "darken"  --  so put that in your pipe and desicate it

diane wiley in tangletown with laptop at the ready

- Original Message - 
From: "David Shove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ray Marshall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: 
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2005 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Mpls] Minneapolis: What is in a name? A powerful brand?


> On Mon, 3 Oct 2005, Ray Marshall wrote:
>
> > I see by the morning Strib that American Express Financial Advisors is
now
> > doing business independently under the name of Ameriprise Financial,
Inc.
> >
> > Kinda rolls right off the tongue, doesn't it, as you savor free
enterprise's
> > latest contribution to obfuscation.
>
> I keep asking people the meaning of "obfuscation", but I never get a clear
> answer I can understand. Each time I ask it gets worse.  Put that word in
> your mouth and eschew it.
>
>
> -David Shove
> word traveller
> Roseville
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>
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Re: [Mpls] Bad Bet

[wmmarks]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Wizard Marks bets:

"My bet is that four or five days before the November election, the FBI
will put an indictment on the table. Any takers?"

I'd take that bet, but since the FBI never brings indictments, I'll give 
Wizard a break. This one is pretty much up to the US Attorney to do.
 


Off line, one person weighed in with two weeks. Any other suggestions?


WizardMarks, Central


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