Re: [Mpls] Anti-GLBT Politics: Historic Artifact?
Wizard noted: I suspect that, within not too long a time, there will be discoveries stemming from the Human Genome Project that show sexual identity to have genetic markers. Thanks, Wizard The more I study history the more convinced I am that anti gay bigotry had it roots in social mores that maybe made some sense a century or two ago, when taken with a few shaker fulls of salt. Let's go back to mid 19th century Minneapolis. Your family is trying to survive on 40 acres in what will become Minneapolis, having immigrated here from the old country where you're lucky to find an acre to till between the mountains. You have no birth control and no sex education either, but with half your children not even surviving to adulthood and 40 acres to till with a draft animal or two you need all the help you can procreate. Lord knows, with the weather turning cold at least one family member is kept busy just keeping the stove stoked, never mind milking the cow and gathering the eggs. So even though you weren't interested in the opposite sex the elders arranged a marriage, and though you'd been having sex with others of your sex for years, you went along. There weren't a whole lot of opposite sex partners in the township to choose from, and you didn't want to spend your declining years as a discarded old bachelor or maiden like the ones you'd made love with. A few decades pass, the civil war takes your spouse, and you have to sell the farm to survive. Just as well, as your surviving children can barely keep up with bringing in water, tending the stoves, and doing the wash. That's when your progeny isn't off working the standard 16 hour workday 6 days a week. So despite being queerer that a three dollar bill, you tell them to get married, knowing they'll probably follow the railroads west and leave you behind to age and die alone. You lose a grandchild to world war one, and another is disabled by syphilis. Then the flu epidemic of 1918 takes your only two great grandchildren. You busy yourself getting the remaining bachelors and bachelorettes among your offspring married off. And you pass on these moral values that maybe made sense to your ancestors to those offspring. Comes the 21st century and the stove has a thermostat and you could ignore it for the whole winter if you want. The clothes and even dishes are washed by machine, and cooking is done with a keyboard on a microwave. Sex is optional, with more than enough children surviving to maintain the species and then some. With survival a given, any combination of genders can marry or not marry, and separate also if needed. But the bigots of the religious right are still playing by their ancestor's 18th century rules, and insisting by force of law that everyone else do likewise. studying history from a queer perspective in Hawthorne, Dyna Sluyter REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Green legislative candidates
David Brauer writes: "the Greens fielded no state legislative candidates in Minneapolis in 2004." There were two Green candidates for state house last year. Tom Taylor in 59A and Becki Smith in 59B. I know that Tom came in second, beating the Republican candidate. Robin Garwood Seward REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[mpls] MPRB 11-2-05 meeting highlights part 1
Meeting called to order by President Olson Agenda Approved Reports of Officers River District Sara Ackman in for Jon Oyanagi showed DVD of photos from various rec center Halloween parties with Monster Mash as the music total number of attendees 4015 kids under 17 and 1572 adults ( includes numbers from Creekview Park's haunted house which was open more than one evening) biggest turn outs at Creekview, Folwell, Webber, North Commons and Logan Parks. Commissioner Dziedzic comments on the "fear Factor" at Bottineau Park being very high Commissioner Olson thanks the staff, donors and volunteers for all of their hard work. Lakes District Paul Hokeness Sailboats off of the lakes converting the mowers to snowplows and brooms soccer and football wrapped up and now taking sign ups for basketball and volleyball Lots of people at the Halloween Parties Great haunted house at Armatage Park the Lowry Hill neighborhood Association is donating $30,000 in NRP money for upgrading Kenwood Park The lakes district has hired a planner ( is this a new hire or from within ... inquiring minds would like to know) The Lake of the Isles bike trail is in and had a celebrity riderSir Paul McCartney Minnehaha District Eileen Kilpatrick Halloween parties at the parks and 3 big features... outdoor celebration at Minnehaha Park with hay-rides Pre-school Halloween at Pearl Park and Haunted house at Powderhorn Park 2 new skate-parks are open at Brackett and Morris parks on Oct 29th McCrea park hosted the Ed Solomon football tournament And the Minnesota Recreation and Parks Association conference was held in Rochester MN and the keynote speaker Dr. John Compton form Texas A & M had many compliments for the MPRB. The Board now moves to consent business and passes the 4 recommendations about the Paddleford Company dumping Raw Sewage into the Mississippi River. The term Raw Sewage is changed to inadequately treated sewage per the agreement with the MPCA per the Paddleford's attorney. Go to this link for specifics... http://www.minneapolisparks.org/documents/meetings/agendas/uploaded11 -02-05Regular.pdf All Pass Unfinished Business Commissioner Young makes a report from the Charter Commission ( held earlier in the evening) that the commission has delayed forwarding the 8th draft so that during the next 4 weeks the additions request by the MPRB as well as some from the Library Board can be considered and a subcommittee was formed to handle it ( which may lead to version 9). Petitions and Communications Commissioner Erwin was glad to announce that the Mississippi Watershed Management Organization ( MWMO) had funded many MPRB requests except for a Green roof for the headquarters building. Commissioner Young has had many calls regarding Peavey Park Commissioner Kummer had copies of the Charles Birnbaum editorial for all to read. http://www.startribune.com/stories/562/5695927.html Commissioner Dziedzic mentions the Cadillac prize was not given out to the best halloween party due to a tie and he also mentions that the U of M boathouse has had a delay. Commissioner Hauser gives an example of how the new district manager system is working with her only having to contact one person to get an answer to a constituent's problem with a curb cut. She has also been receiving calls about Peavey Park and went with GM Schmidt to a meeting at the American Indian Center where there was much dismay over the closing and a renewed call for a facility at East Phillips. Commissioner Fine thanks staff etc.. for Halloween parties and gives compliments to the folks at the Linden Hills rec center for their giant Muppet theme Halloween rooms. Commissioner Erwin compliments the staff on getting the proposal in to get the MWMO funds mentioned above and Commissioner's Young and Kummer mention the Halloween parties they attended and how nice they were. end part 1 DeLaSalle Public Hearing speeches in part 2 Liz Wielinski Columbia Park www.mplsparkwatch.org REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] RE: AOL Ban
Folks, the AOL ban is not a Minneapolis-specific issue. Please move on. David Brauer List manager REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] RE: AOL Ban
No where does it require a private company to provide a forum that they do not appove, or feels that it is a violation of the terms of service. You are S.O.L. in this case Robert. Shawn A. Dorisian Phillips - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] RE: AOL Ban
Just what clause in the Bill of Rights, which generally begin with "Congress shall make no law. . ." requires that private companies adhere to Bill of Rights provisions? Ray Marshall Hiawatha -- Message: 8 Date: Sun, 13 Nov 2005 20:07:57 GMT From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have just learned that AOL has banned my website, blog and The Pen and letters containing url's to these sites. My website and blog contain controversial political views but banning them on that basis is censorship. It is not as if people who object to the views on these sites are forced to read them against their will. On the other hand, the people who contacted AOL and brought about the ban with their objections are barring the sites to people who do want to read them. I have written to the Minnesota Civil Liberties Union inquiring about what legal options I have concerning this ban. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] About DZ
Wow. That sounds strangely familiar. Its ironic how things work, isn't it? http://www.oah.state.mn.us/aljBase/632616886.fdg.rt.htm Toni Hauser Logan Park --- In case you didn't see this... Star Tribune Letters form Readers 11/11/05 DEAN ZIMMERMANN Bushwhacked by media The media collectively should hang their heads in shame for the manner in which they effectively rendered illegitimate the democratic process here in Minneapolis. The FBI raid on the home of Minneapolis City Council Member Dean Zimmermann, the allegations of bribery and the history of political corruption in Minneapolis City Hall were reported in detail. But the media failed to follow through with the same furor when no charges were ever filed against Zimmermann, who lost his reelection bid last week by just 46 votes. This sort of slippery journalism amounts to little more than pure character assassination. Your headlines established a public perception of Dean Zimmermann that unjustly discredited him and tarnished his image. RYAN SIMONSON, MINNEAPOLIS Cut and paste from Annie Young East Phillips -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.0/167 - Release Date: 11/11/2005 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] "Death of the Old Guard: Meet the New Guard, Same as...
The local DFL includes a significant minority which is progressive on some issues, but mostly the local DFL is "solidly Republican." The DFL has become the cartoonish stereotype of "Joe Six-Pack." The DFL embraces increasing debt and regressive taxation. The local DFL fights to waste public dollars on unsustainable professional sports infrastructure. The local DFL wastes more resources on unsustainable road-expansion projects. The local DFL ignores clear facts about resource depletion, environmental degradation, and resource wars. Science is as anathema to the local DFL as it is to the current administration in DC. Local Democrats on Global warming: "If it is real (which we don't know) then it is not our problem. Even if it is our problem we can do nothing about it. We cannot and we will not change. More cars and fossil fuels please." Local Democrats on Peak Oil: "If it is real (which we don't know) it is not our problem...We cannot and we will not change" Local Democrats on War: "If it is real (which we don't know) it is not our problemWe cannot and we will not change" Our current Republican Governor shows off his fuel-guzzling SUV as a symbol of the great progress we've made in relation to energy independence and environmental issues. If we had a Democratic Governor, he or she would do the same thing. The reassurance of such symbolism is hollow to the point of spin-slick deception. We need no less than fundamental paradigm shift. Incremental change keeps us in the same place while giving an illusion of progress. The Democrats are taking us the same place that the Republicans are, but with slightly different rhetoric. This is why most people do not bother to vote. Those who do vote seem largely satisfied with the message of entitlement to life as Wal-Mart consumers. The system ensures equilibrium for "the electorate" as long as we accept increasing violence (to our habitat and fellow humans) to feed the system. We need to change our fundamental understanding of the way we relate to our habitat and to others. But this is not the DFL story. The local DFL story is: "We will never change." "Death of the Old Guard"? Hardly! Meet the new guard, same as the old guard --pedaling for peace and ecojustice from Lynhurst -- Gary Hoover REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Greens' place in the pecking order
Dorie wrote: > No, this is all wrong also...first it is the DFL party, then the DFLer > party, then the Green party and > the Republicans are tied :+}! I think the GOP vote is higher than the > greens in most wards. I think on a city-elections level the Greens are clearly number two. However, if you look at state elections, which David Shove was, the GOP is clearly number two in Minneapolis. For example, the Greens fielded no state legislative candidates in Minneapolis in 2004; the GOP candidates received 16-34 percent of the vote. Another example is the four-way 2002 Guv's race. The Republicans topped the Greens in every Minneapolis ward but the 6th. In fact, the Greens finished fourth (behind the Independence Party) in every ward expect the 6th. Totals from that race were: DFL (Moe) 57.7% GOP (Pawlenty) 22.1% Independence (Penny) 12.4% Green (Pentel) 7.9% Within Minneapolis, the GOP is number two federally as well - in the presidential election and in the 5th District Congressional race, in which GOP's Daniel Mathias received 23 percent of the vote to the Green's Jay Pond's 6 percent. Seems to me the next big target for the Greens should be Peter McLaughlin's Commissioner seat in 2006. The 6th and 9th Wards have proven the most Green so far, and those are partly or wholly in McLaughlin's commissioner district. I suspect an anti-stadium candidate could gain some traction, though it would still be an uphill fight as Peter retains much support there. So is there Green interest in the seat and who are the Green candidates? David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] About DZ
In case you didn't see this... Star Tribune Letters form Readers 11/11/05 DEAN ZIMMERMANN Bushwhacked by media The media collectively should hang their heads in shame for the manner in which they effectively rendered illegitimate the democratic process here in Minneapolis. The FBI raid on the home of Minneapolis City Council Member Dean Zimmermann, the allegations of bribery and the history of political corruption in Minneapolis City Hall were reported in detail. But the media failed to follow through with the same furor when no charges were ever filed against Zimmermann, who lost his reelection bid last week by just 46 votes. This sort of slippery journalism amounts to little more than pure character assassination. Your headlines established a public perception of Dean Zimmermann that unjustly discredited him and tarnished his image. RYAN SIMONSON, MINNEAPOLIS Cut and paste from Annie Young East Phillips REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
No, this is all wrong also...first it is the DFL party, then the DFLer party, then the Green party and the Republicans are tied :+}! I think the GOP vote is higher than the greens in most wards. Even in 12 ...GOP goes as high as 24% with Greens at 11-14. Knowingly, Greens outvote the GOP's in other areas where they dare not wander. dorie gallagher/nokomis GP is the second party. Some years ago running for state house Cam Gordon got 25%, the RP 19%, and the DFL all the rest. Greens had 2 council members, now due to DFL dirty tricks has only one. Where are the RP council members? --David Shove People here were saying that the Greens are the second biggest party in Minneapolis, but that is false. It is true that they are the only other party to have elected people to office outside of the DFL. But it is Republicans that are the second biggest by vote. The base Republican vote is still 25%, the Greens come no where close Shawn A. Dorisian Phillips - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] "Feeling less than empowered in the zone"
It's interesting what strikes two people who read the dame article. Unlike Michelle, I was struck by the fact that the two businesses who were noted in the article as having trouble meeting their rent, both rent from non-profit organizations who claim to support and encourage small minority business. Now I admit that I am not a business person. I know enough to know that non-profits still have to pay their bills like anyone else. However, the coffee shop mentioned rents it's space from the Urban League. The strip mall in which Barbara's Beauty Salon ( and the late Lucille's Cafe) is owned by the Northside Resident's Redevelopment Council. I found this out from Barbara at a Fourth Precinct Advisory Council meeting. She had been complaining that her landlord had refused to add security and other suggestions the tenants asked for. When I asked her is she had talked to NRRC about getting on the landlord, she laughed and advised me that they are her landlord. Perhaps if NRRC had been more responsive to the needs of these two businesses, they would still be in business. Perhaps not. By the way, I have heard that Booker T. Hodges is a board member of NRRC, although I tried to confirm that from the NRRC website and could not find anything more current than the 2000 annual report. I don't bring this up in defense of the Empowerment Project. However, we should not blame the failure of minority businesses on this one program. >From my limited experience it seems that the lack is in the preparation and presentation of the proposals. It seems that here on the Northside. we need some pro-bono help from the business and legal community in order to compete for our piece of the pie. Anyone out there willing? Anne McCandless Jordan REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
David Brauer wrote: Wizard writes: <>I think that the young turks, at this point, are more likely to come from the Greens than from the DFL. It's a young party and is attracting bright people. Farheen Hakeem is one such. While I don't disagree the Greens are attracting bright people, I think this is way too harsh on the DFL. Look at the election just past: Ralph Remington, Elizabeth Glidden, Betsy Hodges, Tracey Nordstrom, Scott Vreeland (the oldest Young Turk I know) all won; Jason Stone came damn close. These folks are reformers, and I think none fly the DFL flag out of convenience. I will concede David's point here, but add that I was talking about those who are presently office holders. I have great hopes for the January change, but not having seen them in action, have not much information to work from. My caveat is that the very nature of a matured political party is the weight it carries of traditional practice, some of which the newbies need and others of which they do have to discard. Whether the new folks can balance pushing into the future without insulting the past is the question I'm now asking. Thus I'm not willing to call he DFL dead, but until we see how the new bunch operate, I'd say we are on life support. <>Despite their exciting 2001 debut and Farheen's arrival, ... Natalie couldn't win in a ward that was still mostly hers - turnout was key, and the Greens (so far) have proven no better than the old-guard DFL at getting new bodies to the polls in districts where they have viable candidates. Too true. However, I think the Greens have the opportunity to come into their own as the price of the "conservative agenda" comes to rest more and more on our shoulders. The Green advantage is that they do not have to slough off old habits, in some ways, to think into possible futures. Since we all will be forced to redesign and/or adapt housing, the work place, and the institutions to take advantage of renewable resources, the Greens are ahead as a party in that respect. We all will have to learn the language, ritual, and practice of conservation just to maintain our lives. <>All props to Cam Gordon, who did it the old-fashioned way: laboring in the vineyard of city issues before he was a candidate, earning trust, working hard. You have the advantage of me here, Mr. Brauer. While I can now say some things about the sixth, eighth, ninth wards and a slice of the tenth, (after watching a long time), I do not have the experience with the other wards, the northern wards particularly. I have every respect for Cam Gordon, and do like the way he has gone about becoming a politician, I do not have any experience with the man's work. <>I welcome their arrival and vote for their candidates. But the whole "wave of the future" can be undone by self-satisfaction (a DFL problem, too, of course). The future isn't promised to any political party. Say Amen, somebody. Thank you, gods. Mr. Brauer is a more optimistic type of person than I am. <>WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] "Death of the Old Guard" It is time to change!
Minneapolis Issues Folks, This will sound like a plug for my own work, and it shouldn't, it should sound like a plug for a shift in voters values that was happening regardless of myself or any other person. Voters put much more value in non-profits endorsements like the Sierra Club or other membership driven organizations than endorsements from the Police Federation Union or other large-old-guard-boys-club network organizations. Everyone knows that the only members of the Police Federation are police officers and they have to be members. Membership comes with the job, and just because they are members does not mean they agree with union leaders decisions. Voters realize they don't represent a large segment of society but rather their own narrow interests. The same could be stated about non-profits but the individual has the opportunity to stop their membership if they disapprove of endorsements or policies. Organizations like the Sierra Club have extremely transparent endorsements process that is very inclusive to membership. I believe that voters trust the Sierra Club endorsements more than the Police Federations, and they should. As former Chair of both the state chapter and political committee, I did not agree with all of the Sierra Club endoresments and that to me proves the process was democratic. I was actually happy that I did not agree with all the decisions because it proves that many people have a voice in the process, not just a few insiders. An example of this shifting of values can be seen with the United Steelworkers of America Associate Membership Program http://www.uswa.org/uswa/program/content/overview_sub.php?modules2_ID=186&modules_ID=297 Dave Foster has been a driving force behind this change. The USWA are working side by side with environmental organizations, and pushing for policies that will help to improve the environment, while still stand up for their workers rights. They understand to help improve their ability to change the political process they needed to change, and they need to reflect the values of society as a whole to properly represent their own members. I have worked with them organizing people in the suburbs and in greater Minnesota and they are the real-deal. They understand times have changed, and they are changing to become an organization more responsive to the public needs, while still fighting for traditional unions rights. The Police Federation and some of the other unions have not made these changes and they are losing their political clout because they are perceived as bullies not partners like the USWA. Ken Bradley Kenny Neighborhood - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] 3rd Annual Non-Partisan Party
Well, it just keeps getting better and better! A big thanks to Brian Melendez for once again offering up his house, time and cash to put on this fabulous event. It's always a treat to let the political guard down for an evening and recall how much we really have in common... (Okay, but back to being partisan now. :-) Connie Nompelis Past Chair, Minneapolis Republican Committee __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] AOL BAN
I have just learned that AOL has banned my website, blog and The Pen and letters containing url's to these sites. My website and blog contain controversial political views but banning them on that basis is censorship. It is not as if people who object to the views on these sites are forced to read them against their will. On the other hand, the people who contacted AOL and brought about the ban with their objections are barring the sites to people who do want to read them. I have written to the Minnesota Civil Liberties Union inquiring about what legal options I have concerning this ban. Meanwhile I am asking people to write AOL at [EMAIL PROTECTED] to protest this ban. Robert Halfhill[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://halfhillviews.greatnow.com (SITE NOW BANNED ON AOL) http://halfhillblog.blogspot.com http://www.thepen.us REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
GP is the second party. Some years ago running for state house Cam Gordon got 25%, the RP 19%, and the DFL all the rest. Greens had 2 council members, now due to DFL dirty tricks has only one. Where are the RP council members? --David Shove Roseville On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Shawn A. Dorisian wrote: > What I have noticed is that Minneapolis likes to cut its own noise off to > spit its face. In other posts people were complaining about the > urban/suburban split yet are not trying to understand how to overcome said > split. This split must be overcome, or more and more Minneapolis and St. > Paul will be put to the second tier priorities. This would not matter if > DFLers or Republicans are in charge, since the split is not a partisan one > but a societal one. > > People here were saying that the Greens are the second biggest party in > Minneapolis, but that is false. It is true that they are the only other > party to have elected people to office outside of the DFL. But it is > Republicans that are the second biggest by vote. The base Republican vote is > still 25%, the Greens come no where close to that number. > > I would like to say in closing that if people keep on playing the > urban/suburban card then the cities will lose that game everytime. > > Shawn A. Dorisian > Phillips > > > - > Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. > REMINDERS: > 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. > If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL > PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. > > 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. > > For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html > For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract > > > Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn > E-Democracy > Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org > Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls > REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Say goodbye with a smile
A well-intentioned Christine Viken writes: > As David Brauer leaves his List Manager post, I suggest a salute with a favorite humorous > post from the past. Hey, I'm leaving Southwest Journal & Downtown Journal, not my List manager position! Guy's gotta stay involved somehow! David Brauer List manager REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Say goodbye with a smile
As David Brauer leaves his List Manager post, I suggest a salute with a favorite humorous post from the past. It might be best to steer away from the political jokes, lest we stray into territory that just provokes more work for David. This is my favorite, prompted by the thread questioning an increase in rabbit population: "Pesky Wabbitts." On July 20, '05 David Curle wrote: "Let's put two and two together. There is no doubt we are in a rabbit population boom. I suspect there is a family of them living under my deck." David Shove replied: " You just need to put one and one together." Christine Viken Stevens Square/Loring Heights REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
What I have noticed is that Minneapolis likes to cut its own noise off to spit its face. In other posts people were complaining about the urban/suburban split yet are not trying to understand how to overcome said split. This split must be overcome, or more and more Minneapolis and St. Paul will be put to the second tier priorities. This would not matter if DFLers or Republicans are in charge, since the split is not a partisan one but a societal one. People here were saying that the Greens are the second biggest party in Minneapolis, but that is false. It is true that they are the only other party to have elected people to office outside of the DFL. But it is Republicans that are the second biggest by vote. The base Republican vote is still 25%, the Greens come no where close to that number. I would like to say in closing that if people keep on playing the urban/suburban card then the cities will lose that game everytime. Shawn A. Dorisian Phillips - Yahoo! FareChase - Search multiple travel sites in one click. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
From Doug Grow's column: "She (Arvonne Fraser) believes the electorate is in a state of denial, not prepared to take on the serious issues of the day." Contrasted to this viewpoint is that of George Latimer, who sees the future of the DFL in candidates like Rybak: independent and aware of the limitations of government; charming and having fun doing politics; good hearted and able to explain complex issues. I think both Arvonne Fraser and George Latimer are right. It seems to me that the difficulty of doing politics in Minneapolis is this. Obsolete and parochial ideas are deeply entrenched in political parties, government bureaucracy, and business leadership. At the same time, people who bother to vote (the electorate) is largely preoccupied with the Wal-Mart model of life. We want everything -- clothes, food, gasoline, and all the services we expect from local government -- at Wal-Mart prices. The "electorate" expects for someone else to address real problems, and conveniently severs "Minneapolis" from the rest of the planet. We are free to ignore the obscene consumption of energy we take for granted, and feel that it is a political taboo to ask where we get all the electricity and gasoline and diesel to power the status quo. Politicians are expected to be cheerleaders for unsustainable urban infrastructure design and development while maintaining the sacred taboo against pointing out the obvious. What is the obvious that needs to be pointed out? The obvious is that Minneapolis is going into greater debt while destroying the very resources we require to live The obvious is that Minneapolis is expanding the very energy-sucking infrastructure that requires increasing brutality around the world to sustain it. From Canada (Green Green Water/ Manitoba Hydro) to Iraq to Nigeria, Venezuela and Columbia, we are the "end users" of energy brought here through environmental destruction, social and economic injustice, and killing, rape, and torture. We see this every day, but expend a great deal of energy to distract ourselves from it. The notion that we are somehow on the wrong track must be kept out of the political discussion at all costs. The notion that we ought to redesign our lives to be more sustainable challenges the entrenched parochial political, business, and media establishment. The notion of sustainable development flies in the face of our complacent compliance with the violence required to support the thin veneer of Wal-Mart/McDonald's/ Bechtel globalization. "Sustainability" is a sometimes useful political spin device -- just as "law and order" or "public safety" are useful manipulative memes with which to infect the electorate. The incremental changes toward sustainability so far are grossly outweighed by the inertia-bound development of policy and infrastructure rooted in the notion that we will draw infinite cheap energy, water, food, and consumer goods from around the planet (by brute force as needed) and we will continue to dump toxins into air, water, and soil at will. We will incur debt for our children to hang the albatross of unsustainable infrastructure around their necks, but we will not spend the money needed on their education. The local DFL does nothing to bring this fallacy to the attention of the local electorate. Why? My guess is that the local electorate is made up largely of the Reagan Democrats, gun-toting NRA Democrats, and Anti-abortion//fundagelical Democrats. Many of these are de facto Republicans who were born and socialized into the Democratic party. Hasn't Minneapolis become a Democratic neo-con town with a quaint historic liberal veneer? Are any of our local politicians able to help both establishment and electorate develop a new paradigm? -- still pedaling for peace and ecojustice from Lynhurst for now -- very aware of the limitations of government -- Gary Hoover REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
I agree with David Bauer that the future isn't promised to any political party. I would hope that the future is promised to those parties (and candidates) that bring forth the issues that best serve the people. As Greens we do have a lot of party building to do, but despite blatant gerrymandering of Minneapolis city wards that pitted the two Green incumbent city council members against DFL incumbents, the Greens have emerged from this week's election with a growing voter base. We gained Cam's seat and lost two city council seats by a combined total of less than 400 votes. This growing voter base is good for this city because a one-party town is bad democracy whether it's Moscow or Minneapolis. I'm writing this as I listen to Sunday morning's Meet the Press - Howard Dean is saying that it isn't the job of the Democrats to bring forth issues; rather it is their job to show the evilness of the current administration (therefore no Democratic Party stance on the war in Iraq). I don't buy that, nor apparently do most Americans. We want leadership on issues, not us/them squabbling between two parties with similar stances on the war, health care, and energy policy. That goes for all levels of government - city, state and federal. This past year has seen dramatic changes that are forcing people to acknowledge that the two-party, corporate dominated system is broken. The lack of substantive opposition by the Democratic Party on everything from the war to lack of health care is increasing the numbers of voters who identify with the values defined by the Green Party. Jay Pond Wedge REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
Wizard writes: > I think that the young turks, at this point, are more likely to come > from the Greens than from the DFL. It's a young party and is attracting > bright people. Farheen Hakeem is one such. While I don't disagree the Greens are attracting bright people, I think this is way too harsh on the DFL. Look at the election just past: Ralph Remington, Elizabeth Glidden, Betsy Hodges, Tracey Nordstrom, Scott Vreeland (the oldest Young Turk I know) all won; Jason Stone came damn close. These folks are reformers, and I think none fly the DFL flag out of convenience. Despite their exciting 2001 debut and Farheen's arrival, I'd say the Greens still have a LOT of party building to do, and frankly, didn't do as much as they needed to these past four years. They couldn't field a candidate in the 10th ward - the 10TH! - and their candidate in the 8th ward basically disappeared. There were NO new Greens running for the Park Board - none! Their 9th Ward candidate was a DFL candidate for mayor (briefly, at the DFL convention). I enjoyed covering Aaron Neumann in the 3rd - he was a genuine and hardworking alternative - but he was flattened. Blame redistricting for the 5th Ward situation, but Natalie couldn't win in a ward that was still mostly hers - turnout was key, and the Greens (so far) have proven no better than the old-guard DFL at getting new bodies to the polls in districts where they have viable candidates. All props to Cam Gordon, who did it the old-fashioned way: laboring in the vineyard of city issues before he was a candidate, earning trust, working hard. My observation above is not meant to diss the Greens - as I said four years ago, I welcome their arrival and vote for their candidates. But the whole "wave of the future" can be undone by self-satisfaction (a DFL problem, too, of course). The future isn't promised to any political party. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Doug Grow on the "Death of the Old Guard"
I agree to a certain extent with Grow's and others assessment that the old guard is old, I believe his point was. That's true and I've been hearing staunch leaders of the party say they want to retire. They've been in office a long time and they're tired, particularly since the Pawlenty onset. But who did he name? Tony Scallon, Peter McLaughlin, the Frasers. First, I don't believe Peter McLaughlin belongs in that group; second, Grow missed some of the more cynical members of the old guard who hold party office and never run for public office. Some of the cynical old guard is responsible for the redistricting gerrymandering. They successfully knocked out the two Greens on the council, to their own disadvantage. The DFL in Minneapolis needs an opponent so that it will always be challenged by other voices. To get an equitable, sensible solution to problems or to go forward with a clear picture of the city's intent in choosing development strategies and maintaining its gains, there does have to be the possibility of looking at an issue from at least two sides. Personally, I'm very uncomfortable with two democrats vying for an office after the primary in any race. We had more than one race in which that was the case. When a party is split so completely that this situation happens it doesn't bode well for the future of the party as a party. However, playing the role of the young turks, Rybak's forces have a long way to go before we can call them slick. They have been impressive at winning elections, but after that I don't see much. I don't think the true young turks have emerged yet. This bunch is soft and has a certain quality of narcissism that is not at all healthy. McLaughlin did identify Rybak's failure with the police, but he never should have accepted assistance from the police federation, it was a death knell. The federation is required to defend thumpers, it's their job. People want safety and more cops, but only if we come to an understanding about unprofessional behavior on the part of any cop. At the same time, I think we've yet to see how badly Rybak stepped in it with the sharp drop in officers, failure to follow the federal contract and two lawsuits over discrimination, and allowing the PCRC to flounder. Right now, McManus has a hold over Rybak. By all rights, if the DFL had been in good shape, Farheen Hakeem would not have gotten the percentages she got in the eighth and ninth wards, Bicking would not have done nearly so well, and Zimmermann would have lost by way more than 46 votes. Both had opponents among the young turks and Zimmermann had the FBI on his case. So, no, this bunch is too soft. Glidden could become an exception. Nor does Grow take into account the Dzeidzic-Rainville-Johnson faction, either. They are by no means quiescent. And in January we have a Hofstede coming onto the council, so that's a whole nuther kettle of fish. This also doesn't take into account that unseating a one-term mayor is not that easy, particularly if he's from your own party. Many voters seem to feel that it takes two terms for a mayor to produce so reelect a sitting mayor, unless the office holder is outrageous in public and a complete doof, which Rybak is not. I have to admit that I think McLaughlin's sense of timing on this stinks. If McLaughlin had challenged SSB last time along with Rybak, he would have gained ascendancy in the party in Mpls., bringing large numbers of a younger group through attachment to the NRP. At the same time, his personal sense of party loyalty and belief in waiting one's turn would not have allowed him to challenge SSB. But, if wishes were horses... What I find interesting is that McLaughlin and SSB, Cherryhomes, and Campbell have been excoriated for attachment to developers, yet Lisa Goodman, who has every big buck developer trailing her around, and now has the economic engine territory of the fifth ward to command, did not catch any flack. Her sudden attachment to a chunk of the fifth, of course, is the gerrymandering again. Some of my friends (and DFLers) are arguing that the DFL is toast. It's too corrupt and past the point where it can clean house and is too arrogant to do so anyway. That could be true. I think that the young turks, at this point, are more likely to come from the Greens than from the DFL. It's a young party and is attracting bright people. Farheen Hakeem is one such. I also think that in the younger generation (younger than any current officeholders), the children of DFLers, may well go Green. WizardMarks, Central REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http:
