Re: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps
I'll have you know that four of my 35 Minneapolitan renters are now driving SUV's. I guess suburb bashing never really goes out of style, does it? Craig Miller Former Fultonite [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Kurt Waltenbaugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 10:04 PM Subject: RE: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps >Greg, > >If the parking downtown is really that frustrating to SUV-driving, suburban >T-Wolves fans, why not post a flyer on how to take the bus? > >Or better yet, how to take the new light rail system. Oh, wait, that's only >in places like Portland... > >--- >Kurt Waltenbaugh >ECCO, Ward 10 >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of >List Manager >Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 8:48 PM >To: Mpls list >Subject: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps > >Forwarded on behalf of Greg Finstad - David Brauer, list manager > >Hello. I'm Greg Finstad, director of transportation, City of Minneapolis. >David Brauer's posting of Tuesday, April 17th implying that the City is >turning away business at its parking ramps on downtown's western edge isn't >really accurate and needs some context. On Sunday, April 15, those arriving >for the Timberwolves game and parking in the City's ramps at 5th Street and >7th Street were given a flier that alerted them to parking alternatives >within reasonable distance of the Target Center. The major message was that >there are lots of places to park downtown and if you are concerned about >congestion at one ramp, walking a little further can mean a shorter wait. > >Here's why the flyer: > >1. The Timberwolves approached us at the City because they had gotten >feedback from some frustrated ticket holders that, in their view, it was >taking them too long to exit the ramps after the games. Minneapolis' ramps >are well designed for timely exiting, but a nearly full ramp is going to >take longer to empty. The City's two ramps close to the Target Center are >favorites because of their skyway connections to the Target Center. > >2. The City's ramp management and the Timberwolves felt it would be >helpful if people just knew more about all the available parking facilities >so that if they needed to leave quicker, there are alternatives that might >suit them. > >3. We were thinking that if 200 to 300 folks (NOT 1,000 to 2,000, as >David Brauer said) parked in an alternative ramp, the congestion would be >eased noticeably. And we also know that while there are three private ramps >listed on the flyer (some have special arrangements with the Timberwolves), >the three City ramps listed, such as the new Hawthorne ramp, the ramp at >10th and Hennepin or the 4th Street ramp, would be chosen by many of these >folks who decide to park further away. So revenues won't be noticeably >reduced, which David Brauer also projected. It just won't be the case. > >4. As for the state of parking in that area if a baseball stadium is >built, we can all assume that parking, and the ease of entering the area and >exiting, will be an important part of the planning. Our existing ramps will >be of great service when it comes to planning such a facility and, if built, >for its ticket-holders, given that we have 8,470 City ramp spaces within >walking distance, and the fact that we now bring in and then exit folks in >very good time (better than most). > >So the bottom line: if you are parked in a full ramp anywhere, it takes >time to empty, especially after an event. If you can't spend the time >waiting, look for parking alternatives that may be less utilized and thus >will be less congested. > > > >___ >Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy >Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: >http://e-democracy.org/mpls > > >_ >Do You Yahoo!? >Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > >___ >Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy >Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: >http://e-democracy.org/mpls > ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps
Nice suggestion, Kurt. The Twins currently have a promotion in which you get a discount with a bus ticketsounds like this could help the Wolves, too. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kurt Waltenbaugh Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 10:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps Greg, If the parking downtown is really that frustrating to SUV-driving, suburban T-Wolves fans, why not post a flyer on how to take the bus? Or better yet, how to take the new light rail system. Oh, wait, that's only in places like Portland... --- Kurt Waltenbaugh ECCO, Ward 10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of List Manager Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 8:48 PM To: Mpls list Subject: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps Forwarded on behalf of Greg Finstad - David Brauer, list manager Hello. I'm Greg Finstad, director of transportation, City of Minneapolis. David Brauer's posting of Tuesday, April 17th implying that the City is turning away business at its parking ramps on downtown's western edge isn't really accurate and needs some context. On Sunday, April 15, those arriving for the Timberwolves game and parking in the City's ramps at 5th Street and 7th Street were given a flier that alerted them to parking alternatives within reasonable distance of the Target Center. The major message was that there are lots of places to park downtown and if you are concerned about congestion at one ramp, walking a little further can mean a shorter wait. Here's why the flyer: 1. The Timberwolves approached us at the City because they had gotten feedback from some frustrated ticket holders that, in their view, it was taking them too long to exit the ramps after the games. Minneapolis' ramps are well designed for timely exiting, but a nearly full ramp is going to take longer to empty. The City's two ramps close to the Target Center are favorites because of their skyway connections to the Target Center. 2. The City's ramp management and the Timberwolves felt it would be helpful if people just knew more about all the available parking facilities so that if they needed to leave quicker, there are alternatives that might suit them. 3. We were thinking that if 200 to 300 folks (NOT 1,000 to 2,000, as David Brauer said) parked in an alternative ramp, the congestion would be eased noticeably. And we also know that while there are three private ramps listed on the flyer (some have special arrangements with the Timberwolves), the three City ramps listed, such as the new Hawthorne ramp, the ramp at 10th and Hennepin or the 4th Street ramp, would be chosen by many of these folks who decide to park further away. So revenues won't be noticeably reduced, which David Brauer also projected. It just won't be the case. 4. As for the state of parking in that area if a baseball stadium is built, we can all assume that parking, and the ease of entering the area and exiting, will be an important part of the planning. Our existing ramps will be of great service when it comes to planning such a facility and, if built, for its ticket-holders, given that we have 8,470 City ramp spaces within walking distance, and the fact that we now bring in and then exit folks in very good time (better than most). So the bottom line: if you are parked in a full ramp anywhere, it takes time to empty, especially after an event. If you can't spend the time waiting, look for parking alternatives that may be less utilized and thus will be less congested. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps
Greg, If the parking downtown is really that frustrating to SUV-driving, suburban T-Wolves fans, why not post a flyer on how to take the bus? Or better yet, how to take the new light rail system. Oh, wait, that's only in places like Portland... --- Kurt Waltenbaugh ECCO, Ward 10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of List Manager Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2001 8:48 PM To: Mpls list Subject: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps Forwarded on behalf of Greg Finstad - David Brauer, list manager Hello. I'm Greg Finstad, director of transportation, City of Minneapolis. David Brauer's posting of Tuesday, April 17th implying that the City is turning away business at its parking ramps on downtown's western edge isn't really accurate and needs some context. On Sunday, April 15, those arriving for the Timberwolves game and parking in the City's ramps at 5th Street and 7th Street were given a flier that alerted them to parking alternatives within reasonable distance of the Target Center. The major message was that there are lots of places to park downtown and if you are concerned about congestion at one ramp, walking a little further can mean a shorter wait. Here's why the flyer: 1. The Timberwolves approached us at the City because they had gotten feedback from some frustrated ticket holders that, in their view, it was taking them too long to exit the ramps after the games. Minneapolis' ramps are well designed for timely exiting, but a nearly full ramp is going to take longer to empty. The City's two ramps close to the Target Center are favorites because of their skyway connections to the Target Center. 2. The City's ramp management and the Timberwolves felt it would be helpful if people just knew more about all the available parking facilities so that if they needed to leave quicker, there are alternatives that might suit them. 3. We were thinking that if 200 to 300 folks (NOT 1,000 to 2,000, as David Brauer said) parked in an alternative ramp, the congestion would be eased noticeably. And we also know that while there are three private ramps listed on the flyer (some have special arrangements with the Timberwolves), the three City ramps listed, such as the new Hawthorne ramp, the ramp at 10th and Hennepin or the 4th Street ramp, would be chosen by many of these folks who decide to park further away. So revenues won't be noticeably reduced, which David Brauer also projected. It just won't be the case. 4. As for the state of parking in that area if a baseball stadium is built, we can all assume that parking, and the ease of entering the area and exiting, will be an important part of the planning. Our existing ramps will be of great service when it comes to planning such a facility and, if built, for its ticket-holders, given that we have 8,470 City ramp spaces within walking distance, and the fact that we now bring in and then exit folks in very good time (better than most). So the bottom line: if you are parked in a full ramp anywhere, it takes time to empty, especially after an event. If you can't spend the time waiting, look for parking alternatives that may be less utilized and thus will be less congested. ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps
Isn't the real question: "Why put all those parked cars in the same location?" The answer is: Because it continues a pattern of planning in Minneapolis which defines common districts, ie Nicollet Mall: The Shopping District, Marquette Avenue: The Business District; The Warehouse Area: The Entertainment District; Hennepin Avenue: The Theater District. Now Minneapolis is going to put in another huge sports venue in the Warehouse Area. That area will eventually become the Sports & Entertainment District. Why is this important? Because human beings love to order things, unfortunately order of this type in city planning can lead to chaos. Instead of approaching our city as a complex organic structure where venues can exist in multiple locations and there can be cross pollination, we continue to push for these overly sanitized, clearly delineated districts. Oh there are a few exceptions, but primarily this one dimensional planning is what Minneapolis does. So that's why there are all those cars in the same location at one time. If we had scattered our ramps throughout the city instead of lining them up like the Berlin Wall, we wouldn't have such a problem. And if we had a more organic approach, we'd be putting more housing directly into downtown in each of these districts, which would in turn help create the critical mass to sustain livability after the 9-5 working hour. Russell W. Peterson St. Michael Russell W. Peterson, RA, CID Founder R U S S E L L P E T E R S O N D E S I G N Architecture / Interior Design / Strategic Planning "You can only fly if you stretch your wings." Metro Minneapolis - Saint Michael 13715 Forty-Seventh Street Northeast Saint Michael, Minnesota 55376 (763) 497-1003 phone & fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 5:17 PM To: David Brauer Cc: Mpls list Subject: Re: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps The big ramps were funded in part with substantial federal funds in a complex cost sharing formula. In addition, the ramps were designed primarily as transit hubs, and were designed for commuter traffic -- not the onslaught you'd see at the end of a game. Ramps designed for that kind of intermittent very high volume exit flow are excessively expensive to build and an inefficient use of funds, yadda, yadda, yadda. Hope this clears up part of the mystery. For the rest call the city transportation dept -- they operate the ramps. "David Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@mnforum.org on 04/17/2001 03:17:13 PM Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Mpls list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps Went to the Wolves game on Sunday and encountered an interesting flyer as I was pulling into the Fifth Street TAD ramp (the middle of the big 394-linked suckers on the western edge of downtown). The flyers, handed out by parking attendants, basically ask Timberwolves fans to go elsewhere to park before the game. As I can tell you from experience, all those Wolves fans exiting from the 7th and 5th street ramps causes a tremendous logjam. I talked to a friend at the Wolves who said the long wait to get out is one of two perennial complaints fans have (the other is the Target Center food service). I told him, "man, you must have some pull with the city because you have people at city-owned ramps, which produce revenue for the city parking fund, handing out fliers telling people to go to privately owned ramps with their parking money. I know you're a major tenant in our city-owned building, but boy, we are putting out for you!" A couple of points: 1. The fliers do direct people to several other ramps: the 4th street TAD ramp (publicly owned), but also the LaSalle Court, Dayton's, and Rapid Park ramps, which are privately owned. We are doing Wolves fans (our downtown's customers) a favor, but we're also helping these private owners make cash at our city parking fund's expense. (The Hawthorne Transportation Center and Hennepin & 10th ramps are also listed, but I'm not sure who owns those.) I asked my Wolves source what the goal of the program was, and he said to get 1,000 to 2,000 parkers out of the 5th & 7th street ramps. At $6 a car, if half of those people go to privately owned ramps, the city's parking fund loses $125,000 to $250,000 a year. 2. If 19,000 Wolves fans cause such commotion, what the heck is going to happen if a 40,000-seat ballpark is built on the Rapid Park site? Massive parking availability is supposed to be a strength of the location, but if we're already admitting
Re: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps
The big ramps were funded in part with substantial federal funds in a complex cost sharing formula. In addition, the ramps were designed primarily as transit hubs, and were designed for commuter traffic -- not the onslaught you'd see at the end of a game. Ramps designed for that kind of intermittent very high volume exit flow are excessively expensive to build and an inefficient use of funds, yadda, yadda, yadda. Hope this clears up part of the mystery. For the rest call the city transportation dept -- they operate the ramps. "David Brauer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>@mnforum.org on 04/17/2001 03:17:13 PM Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Mpls list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> cc: Subject: [Mpls] Fun with parking ramps Went to the Wolves game on Sunday and encountered an interesting flyer as I was pulling into the Fifth Street TAD ramp (the middle of the big 394-linked suckers on the western edge of downtown). The flyers, handed out by parking attendants, basically ask Timberwolves fans to go elsewhere to park before the game. As I can tell you from experience, all those Wolves fans exiting from the 7th and 5th street ramps causes a tremendous logjam. I talked to a friend at the Wolves who said the long wait to get out is one of two perennial complaints fans have (the other is the Target Center food service). I told him, "man, you must have some pull with the city because you have people at city-owned ramps, which produce revenue for the city parking fund, handing out fliers telling people to go to privately owned ramps with their parking money. I know you're a major tenant in our city-owned building, but boy, we are putting out for you!" A couple of points: 1. The fliers do direct people to several other ramps: the 4th street TAD ramp (publicly owned), but also the LaSalle Court, Dayton's, and Rapid Park ramps, which are privately owned. We are doing Wolves fans (our downtown's customers) a favor, but we're also helping these private owners make cash at our city parking fund's expense. (The Hawthorne Transportation Center and Hennepin & 10th ramps are also listed, but I'm not sure who owns those.) I asked my Wolves source what the goal of the program was, and he said to get 1,000 to 2,000 parkers out of the 5th & 7th street ramps. At $6 a car, if half of those people go to privately owned ramps, the city's parking fund loses $125,000 to $250,000 a year. 2. If 19,000 Wolves fans cause such commotion, what the heck is going to happen if a 40,000-seat ballpark is built on the Rapid Park site? Massive parking availability is supposed to be a strength of the location, but if we're already admitting it doesn't work for large events... And of course, the other big question: who designed ramps that lots of people couldn't get out of quickly? (By the way, on game nights, you pay on the way in, not out.) It's not like we didn't know Target Center was going to be there... David Brauer King Field - Ward 10 ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls ___ Minneapolis Issues Forum - Minnesota E-Democracy Post messages to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe, Unsubscribe, Digest option, and more: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
