Proposal to discuss police conduct
I am not sure why this issue of police parking and the abuse of power it implies has not yet been tied into the Mpls police dept's FIFTH KILL OF THE YEAR (though police might argue that three of those should not count since they were mentally handicapped). What ever happened to that old-fashioned movie-style cop/"criminal" interaction where the cop does not shoot to kill, but instead shoots to slow down or incapacitate (though I would argue that they should not be shooting). There is obviously a very serious problem generating steam in Mpls, and it is that the police are not being held accountable, much less seriously questioned about tactics and intentions. Funny, but in this latest killing, the police were on a drug buy, and no drugs were on the two "drug dealers" or in their car, and when the apertment of the dead man was searched they found "small amounts of marijuana and metamphetamine"...I would suspect that if the amount was anything over casual use levels that it would have been reported. We will brush aside police actions at highway 55, hard times, sisters camelot, isag, etc...these all are serious manifestations of police arrogance and unaccountability. Mpls police have killed 5 people this year. This is unacceptable, and especially given the circumstances of each killing. This is a real and horrifying manifestation of the abuse of power which rears it's ugly head by a cop parking on the sidewalk, from a cop saying "i could give you a ticket for that", from a cop driving on the median with his brother in the car (just to impress him!!), from a cop turning on lights to speed through a red light, from a cop... Cops are not being held accountable in minneapolis and this has to change! this should start with the firing of chief robert olson and a serious review of all officers who have killed a person. Can we please have a discussion on this list about proper police conduct and how we can hold police accountable for deviations from proper conduct? jon kelland bryant --- Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regardless of what any pro police person says. Police abuse power. This is a very simple fact of life. I dont like it...tim connoly doesnt like it...and for some godforsaken reason, luther krueger is paid to (or chooses) to legitimatize it. How about some names? Amadou Diallo Malice Green A name i cant remember from South Minneapolis last week (30+ bullets?) Countless others... Need some more examples? How about driving 80 miles per hour through traffic and busy streets to catch an offender in a chase...Why are police held unaccountable for endangering the safety of residents, at times as much or more than individuals suspected of crime? This issue goes much further than the police just parking where average citizens are not allowed. This is about the abuse of power, and I am glad someone else brought it up. The fact is, in the eyes of police officers, people are seen as "potential offenders". They choose to refer to themselves as peace officers to persuade the common folk, aka the stupid idiots who see no other recourse but to put up with it, into not having a problem with their actions. This message comes from someone who has observed police injustice in several different ways. While I do not affiliate myself with the rentaprotesters who constantly assault police aggression of people, i believe such a cause has a place, because there arent too many people doing it. Ive listened to an officer say to me "I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT". These things do not go in any job description in any place in this society. Especially not that of our boys in blue. YET, as a society, we put up with this abuse. Luther, while you may argue "I welcome any suggestions as to how we can end our department's systemic parking abuse". The question is, what the hell is anyone on the force going to do about it? Im tired of watching police forces all over the country use their badges as an excuse for "being the law" rather than enforcing it, which IS what they get paid to do. Its very simple. If police officers feel they are "damned if they do or dont" maybe they need to find a different line of work, and i guarantee you...then they will be expected to follow the same rules of everyone else. Robb Clarksen Still searching for a police force that conducts itself ethically. SE minneapolis __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/
Re: Finance Director
In a message dated 11/22/2000 10:48:20 PM Central Standard Time, Ewader writes: Maybe Mr. Born was hired because the mayor and the city council will feel justified paying the $110,000 per year because they feel he shares their view about spending public taxes on private interests. It's nice to have "yes men" working for you, you see. and maybe pigs will fly! ... groundless accusations and speculation. M. Hohmann 13th Ward
Re: Proposal to discuss police conduct
In a message dated 11/23/00 9:50:21 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can we please have a discussion on this list about proper police conduct and how we can hold police accountable for deviations from proper conduct? This is a sore subject - no pun intended - considering I was mugged in my own kitchen at 6 a.m. this morning by an individual looking to collect some extra holiday cash. But violence is violence, regardless of who is dispensing it, so let's just say at the moment I'm feeling sympathetic with anybody who is on the receiving end. I know way too many people who were murdered - my sister, my best friend, co-workers, acquaintances. I've learned that when you're dead, you're dead; there is no healing, no forgiveness, no chance to say oops, I messed up... the families, friends and neighbors of people who have been killed by Minneapolis police (an ignominous way to go, by the way - would you like to have to tell people for the rest of your life that your father was gunned down by cops?) are hurting, grieving. They need more from Chief Olson than a cold assertion that the police were acting appropriately. How can we acknowledge their pain and loss? Institutional violence puts blood on all our hands. I want to feel confident that it's there for a darn good reason. Are we as a community going to make a commitment to nonviolence? What would this mean? Responsibility and reparations, for a start - even if it means opening the door to litigation. Accountability - breaking up the one-party lock on our city government, maybe having an elected police chief. Retraining our police force in non-lethal intervention techniques. Acknowledging and abolishing racial profiling and over-policing of poor neighborhoods, which promote power abuse. And reconnecting our police force with the community, through incentives for residency. I want to be part of a community that is outraged when people are killed, regardless of the circumstances. The alternative is a kind of slow death of the spirit. -- Holle Brian Bancroft (612) 822-6593
Re: Proposal to discuss police conduct
yes, it is definitely about time that we start challenging our out-of-control - or perhaps too-much-in-control police department. i think the FIVE KILLINGS IN THE PAST YEAR is a further manifestation of a police department that is not held accountable to our elected civilian government. Complete information about these killings has unfortunately not been publicly available. This is because the police department has apparently not made any attempt at accurate and full disclosure. Chief Olson's response to every killing has been pretty much the same as his response to other abuses such as repression of non-violent protesters and the racist anti-constitutional CODEFOR programs. His response has been focused all on public relations and politically maintaining his position of unaccountability. After each killing, Olson immediately holds press conferences that defend the police actions and blame the victim (e.g. he/she was mentally ill, had a criminal record, and of course was the aggressor) This is an extremely inappropriate and disturbing and unprofessional approach because the chief could not possibly be making an informed judgment immediately after the incidents and before the mandatory formal investigation has been conducted. Chief Olson's immediate public pronouncements in support of the officers who have committed killings further help ensure that no fair and impartial investigation will occur. Since it is law enforcement officers of lower rank who conduct the investigations, they will inevitably take their cues from the police chief that it is their job to rationalize the police actions rather than get to the truth. While Olson's completely PR-focused approach to all of his department's action is problematic, it is especially bad in the case of the police killings. It means that Olson and his department are far more concerned about public relations and their political position than with the value of the human life that has been lost. A genuine commitment to the police being careful about human life would require the police department to refrain from taking a public position on the killing until there was a full investigation and analysis of all the circumatances. It is fair and accurate to conclude that the police department's response to each killing is a critical reason why the killings keep happening. Honest investigations and evaluations would lead to policies, procedures and measures to prevent further police killings in the future. Olson's emphasis on defending rather than examining the police actions ensure that their actions will not change. A couple of specific comments on the last two killings (Abuka Sanders and James Fye). 1) In both incidents, the victims were unarmed but nevertheless shot many times. In both incidents, the police claimed that the victims were using their cars as weapons. Assuming this to be true (obviously we should not automatically accept that it is true), it seems that there is a much less extreme response than shooting the person - the police could easily shoot at the engine and wheels to disable the car. 2) With respect to the killing by Minneapolis police officers in St. Paul, the star tribune article states that two of the officers involved in the killing had 2 years and 7 months experience as police officers. This seems like too little experience to be involved in an operation so sensitive as the pivotal undercover officers in a sting operation. At the very least, the inexperienced officers should have been paired with very experienced officers. I am sure that there could be many policy and procedure issues that could prevent these killings, but, as explained, the police department has shown no commitment to self-evaluation. The most we have gotten over the past year is a little lip service in support of the idea that the police should get more training about dealing with mentally ill people. What inadequate B.S.! It is obvious that the police department is rotten at the top. I also think that we should be pressing city candidates on whether and how they plan to take a more active role in supervising and changing the police department. Jordan Kushner Ward 8 jon kelland wrote: I am not sure why this issue of police parking and the abuse of power it implies has not yet been tied into the Mpls police dept's FIFTH KILL OF THE YEAR (though police might argue that three of those should not count since they were mentally handicapped). What ever happened to that old-fashioned movie-style cop/"criminal" interaction where the cop does not shoot to kill, but instead shoots to slow down or incapacitate (though I would argue that they should not be shooting). There is obviously a very serious problem generating steam in Mpls, and it is that the police are not being held accountable, much less seriously questioned about tactics and intentions. Funny, but in this latest killing, the police were on a drug buy, and no drugs were on
Re: Police
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --A7B22201F6EA97FC4B3E353C Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm grateful for the work done by our Minneapolis Police officers. They do a tough job well. I've grew up in a high crime neighborhood in North Minneapolis and now live in a low crime area of South Minneapolis. In both areas I have appreciated their work. I've also seen officers in other suburbs and know our officers are the best. I don't want them to park 120 feet from where they sit so that they miss critical time on an important call. I don't want them shooting to injure a criminal so that they can run the risk of getting shot in return. Make no mistake, taking a human life, for good or bad, is never desirable but is sometimes necessary. Frankly, I'm fed up with fellow citizens who make their job more difficult than it already is. Thank you Minneapolis police officers for the work you do. Some of us do understand. - Adam Stenberg Fulton Neighborhood 13th Ward timothy connolly wrote: I will choose my words carefully and tell a brief story I live at 12th and lasalle and walk to work along nicollet to the ids. i am observant of people and activity on the street. this morning as i rounded the corner from 12th onto the mall i noticed a mpls. squad car parked on the sidewalk on the west side of nicollet in front of caribou coffee being the nosey parker i am, i wonder what might be up so i checked to see what was happening in caribou. a(n) uniformed officer sat at a front table accompanied by another male drinking a liquid i would presume to be coffee or tea. now the question that springs to my mind is this: is it necessary for the police to park on the sidewalk when they are stopping for coffee? many of you no doubt will chide me for "monday morning quarterbacking" the police or being overly pedantic. feel free. this after all is america. were this an isolated incident of police arrogance i might agree. i constantly see police parked this way. no doubt, at times, it may make sense. god forbid a shoplifter from daytons etc whom the police were called to arrest should walk half a block to a police car. god forbid an officer need be more than 120 feet from his vehichle at any time, that is the approximate distance from the front door of caribouu to a corner metter on 11th st. there is one particular officer i see whose beat appears to be nicollet who in the numerous times i've encountered him has not been chatting up a young woman. you want his name, check me off-line. my point in mentioning any of this is that these ought to be indicators of a systemic problem with the police and their relation to and function within the greater society. to whom are the police accountable? perhaps i should have personally said something to the officer in question. on another day i might have. contrary to what dave dix might think i am not a masochist. i do enjoy being thrashed. i do not enjoy thrashing people. i do believe in personal responsility, discipline, humility, all those good things. discretion in this case seemed the better part of valor. i live to fight again. it was too nice a day to ruin his coffee or my troubled peace of mind. __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ --A7B22201F6EA97FC4B3E353C Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="adam4house.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Adam Stenberg Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="adam4house.vcf" begin:vcard n:Stenberg;Adam tel;fax:612-922-7438 tel;work:612-922-7502 x-mozilla-html:FALSE url:www.stenberg.org org:Stenberg Volunteer Committee adr:;;4920 Ewing Avenue South;Minneapolis;MN;55410;USA version:2.1 email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] title:Candidate for House District 60B fn:Adam Stenberg end:vcard --A7B22201F6EA97FC4B3E353C--
Re: Proposal to discuss police conduct
--part1_22.e2a2013.274f4f16_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The way the city charter is written, the Chief of Police is responsible only to the Mayor. Please remember, the City Council members have little if any authority over the police. Therefore, the only candidates that should be questioned on the matter of police should be the mayoral candidates. They are the only ones who will be able to make any changes. Karen Collier Linden Hills --part1_22.e2a2013.274f4f16_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit HTMLFONT SIZE=2The way the city charter is written, the Chief of Police is responsible only BRto the Mayor. nbsp;Please remember, the City Council members have little if any BRauthority over the police. nbsp;Therefore, the only candidates that should be BRquestioned on the matter of police should be the mayoral candidates. nbsp;They BRare the only ones who will be able to make any changes. BR BRKaren Collier BRLinden Hills/FONT/HTML --part1_22.e2a2013.274f4f16_boundary--
Re: Proposal to discuss police conduct
In a message dated 11/23/00 9:03:26 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: yes, it is definitely about time that we start challenging our out-of-control - or perhaps too-much-in-control police department. i think the FIVE KILLINGS IN THE PAST YEAR is a further manifestation of a police department that is not held accountable to our elected civilian government. It is a priori that police in Minneapolis are not held accountable to civilian government, given the absence of oversight by legislators. It stands to reason that a congress that allows the trundleing of the most basic human rights would do absolutely nothing against an armed agency. It is even more astounding that a beguiled public will continuously hold onto the reins of malfeasance, even in the face of arrogant disdain for the safety and welfare of citizens exhibited by public officials to date. It may be the case that more wide spread attention should be generated to awaken the sensibilities of the general populace: atrocities are not reserved to specific incidence and so we are all subject. Nor is this indignation limited to the police, even though their acts are the more lethal. An earlier post mentions redress of police conduct via city council. I submit that their intervention would be minimal in scope and affect, even if they were inclined to act. Such an initiative requires strong leadership at the state level to mandate accountability through legislative effort, and due process that holds police accountable for the loss of life in its functioning. Contrary to some beliefs, this does not undermine the ability of the police to protect the rights and lives of the citizenry; rather it sets the tone for police response. I've experienced the anxiety of facing an eneny under fire therefore I know that proper training and experience teaches one to be more aware of the response to a threat. So, when I hear the number of rounds expended in a subject, I know it to be a rookie facing action for the first time, or the calous response of an insensitive force "sending a message". Admittedly, police forces face a formidable foe: well armed, and seemingly disposed to dispersing the obstacle. In and of itself, that does not give license for "termination with extreme prejudice". Any command that allows such action is not fit to serve. Robert Anderson 8th Ward
Re: Proposal to discuss police conduct
Ms. Collier, I think you have definitely read the City Charter incorrectly. Chapter 3, section 4 of the City Charter provides the executive committee is responsble for the appointment and removal of the police chief. The executive committee includes the mayor, the city council president and up to three other city council members chosen by the council. Any appointment or removal must further be approved by a majority of the city council under both Ch. 3, sec. 4, and Ch. 6, sec. 1. The city council can also set forth the procedures to be followed in selecting a police chief. The city council is therefore involved both directly and indirectly in the hiring and firing of the police chief. Although the Mayor has ultimitate authority over day-to-day decision making in the police department, the city council can have significant policy influence through the budget and other resolutions. All city council candidates should therefore be questioned about their perspectives on the police department. Jordan Kushner Powderhorn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The way the city charter is written, the Chief of Police is responsible only to the Mayor. Please remember, the City Council members have little if any authority over the police. Therefore, the only candidates that should be questioned on the matter of police should be the mayoral candidates. They are the only ones who will be able to make any changes. Karen Collier Linden Hills
