Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 07:56:58PM +0100, Alex Wulms wrote: ] Everything I know is that this bit was used by MegaSCSI in some ] some apps to "blink" the Kana Led (according to the program manuals). So the answer is that the bit is used for the KANA led, to make it burn or not burn. Please READ. My original message (the one that started this thread) quoted Portar.txt: Extract from Portar.txt: 14= I/O port A (Joystick and cassette) bit Expl. 0 = Joystick UP (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 1 = Joystick DOWN (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 2 = Joystick LEFT (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 3 = Joystick RIGHT (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 4 = Joystick trigger A 5 = Joystick trigger B 6 = Keyboard mode (On japanese machines only) 7 = Cassette input 15= I/O port B (Joystick select) bit Expl. 0 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 1 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 2 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 3 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 4 = Pulse 1 (Positive pulse starting a monostable timer) 5 = Pulse 2 (Positive pulse starting a monostable timer) 6 = Joystick select (0=Connector 1, 1=Connector 2) 7 = Kana LED (Keyboard mode indicator. On japanese machines only) So bit 7 of port 15 is the KANA led. I've said this over and over again. Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Wed, 22 Nov 2000, Alex Wulms wrote:
] Everything I know is that this bit was used by MegaSCSI in some
] some apps to "blink" the Kana Led (according to the program manuals).
So the answer is that the bit is used for the KANA led, to make it burn or
not burn.
Please remember you're talking about register 14 of the PSG. By writing to
this register you may permanently damage your MSX. So it is definitely not
used for setting a bit...
Bye,
shevek
---
/** mastermind. input 4 numbers 0-5. output right.in the right place **/
main(){int c[4] ,x=3 ,l=getpid() ,i;; for( srand(l);c[ x]=- rand
()%6 ,x-- ;);; for( ;44 x;){ char a[9] ,*p=
"%.1f\n", b[9];x=i=0; gets(a);for (l=4 ;l-- ;)x+=-(a[l] -=48)==
(b[l ]=c[ l]); ;for (l=0;16i;l =++i %4)x
+=(b[i/4]+ a[l] ?0:( a[l]=b[i/4] =10)) ;printf(p,x *.1) ;};}
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
] On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 07:56:58PM +0100, Alex Wulms wrote: ] ] Everything I know is that this bit was used by MegaSCSI in some ] ] some apps to "blink" the Kana Led (according to the program manuals). ] So the answer is that the bit is used for the KANA led, to make it burn or ] not burn. ] ] Please READ. My original message (the one that started this thread) quoted ]Portar.txt: Oops. Sorry. Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, the MSX Hardware list, XSA Disk images, documentation, Japanese MSX news from Ikeda and lots more. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
] Everything I know is that this bit was used by MegaSCSI in some ] some apps to "blink" the Kana Led (according to the program manuals). So the answer is that the bit is used for the KANA led, to make it burn or not burn. Kind regards, Alex Wulms -- Visit The MSX Plaza (http://www.inter.nl.net/users/A.P.Wulms) for info on XelaSoft, Merlasoft, Quadrivium, SD-Snatcher on fMSX, the MSX Hardware list, XSA Disk images, documentation, Japanese MSX news from Ikeda and lots more. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 01:14:14PM +0100, Manuel Bilderbeek wrote: "0" for syllable layout; "1" for JIS layout I don't know what it means, though. Syllable means just letters and JIS means Japanese characters (hiragana or even kanji, probably). This is starting to make sense now. :) It's probably an extra key. Can anyone verify this on a Japanese MSX (Turbo R)? Is there a JIS key? And does it toggle? Ys. But first, I don't think it toggles by hardware (I mean, what's the use of that? Nothing is more simple to code than a toggling bit), and second, it's in place of the CODE key in the keyboard-layout (at least, if I remember correctly, but it seems quite logical to me) ~Grauw -- email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 09:34:39PM -0400, Daniel Jorge Caetano wrote: On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:04:50 +0100, Laurens Holst wrote: Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will be activated... I do not think this is true. The Kana-key is located in the keyboard-matrix. I did know what the bit was for, but at the moment I don't remember. You should read some 'alternative' documents like the ones found at Maarten ter Huurne's page (right?) and at Funet. Grauw Fudeba, Everything I know is that this bit was used by MegaSCSI in some some apps to "blink" the Kana Led (according to the program manuals). Later they replaced the use of Kana Led by Caps Led, because ocidental MSXs don't have Kana Led. That's not bit 6 R#14, that's bit 7 R#15. If the european guys gave another use for this bit, I don't know. No it is ignored. I don't know how it works, but if you ask me, I think this bit is set by software when you press kana key. It's difficult to make it by hardware, once PSG is not connected to PPI. True; KANA key is mapped to the CODE key in European MSXes. Last night I did some experimenting with my turbo-R; first of all, if bit 6 of Port A was key: there are only three extra keys on the turbo-R. The yes and no on the keyboard, and the toggle that starts the internal rom stuff. The routine I uses was: DI LOOP1: LD A,14 OUT (A0h),A IN A,(A2h) LD C,A XOR A OUT (99h),A LD A,40h OUT (99h),A LD B,8 LOOP2: LD A,18h RLC C ADC A,A ; 18*2 = 30h = '0', plus carry makes '1' OUT (98h),A DJNZLOOP2 JR LOOP1 In screen 0 the bits of register 14 are now displayed; no matter what keys I pressed, nothing changed. :( So still I have no clue what it is. Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:13:55AM +0100, Sean Young wrote: -snip- In screen 0 the bits of register 14 are now displayed; no matter what keys I pressed, nothing changed. :( So still I have no clue what it is. New information: According to the Red Book on hardwareinfo.msx2.com (which is in .pdf so I had to type it again (no cut paste): -snip- Register 14 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 0 +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ | Cas | Kbd | Joy | Joy | Joy | Joy | Joy | Joy | |Input|Mode |Trg.B|Trg.A|Right|Keft |Back | Fwd | +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ -snip- The Keyboard Mode bit is unused on UK machines. On Japanese machines it is tied to a jumper to determine the keyboard's character set. So this is probably a jumper which is for what Maarten said: "0" for syllable layout; "1" for JIS layout Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
New information: " The Keyboard Mode bit is unused on UK machines. On Japanese machines it is tied to a jumper to determine the keyboard's character set." So this is probably a jumper which is for what Maarten said: "0" for syllable layout; "1" for JIS layout Hmmm... Although I can't find such a jumper on my (Sanyo Wavy MSX2+) keyboard I guess it's very well possible, since there are more characters in the Japanese character set than are available through the KANA key (I think). I guess it's some pre-Kanji ROM way of entering Japanese text, supported by some Japanese text editors. And then the Kanji ROM was 'invented', and people started using CTRL-SPACE in Kanji mode and the bit wasn't nessecary anymore, so it disappeared out of the machines. Just a wild speculation... ~Grauw = -- email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
Hmmm... Although I can't find such a jumper on my (Sanyo Wavy MSX2+) keyboard I guess it's very well possible, since there are more characters in the Japanese character set than are available through the KANA key (I think). I guess it's some pre-Kanji ROM way of entering Japanese text, supported by some Japanese text editors. And then the Kanji ROM was 'invented', and people started using CTRL-SPACE in Kanji mode and the bit wasn't nessecary anymore, so it disappeared out of the machines. Just a wild speculation... JIS is not only kanji, but also hiragana, I suppose. Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
According to Portar.txt bit 6 of PSG register 14 is "On japanese machines only". It's not the KANA led, that's bit 7 of PSG register 15. Does anyone know what that bit does? The MSX redbook doesn't say anything. The dutch "MSX Handboek for gevorderden" says the same as Portar.txt. Does anyone know what it is? Do Japanese MSX computers have an extra key? (The KANA key seems to be the same as the CODE key on international MSXes). Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will be activated... I do not think this is true. The Kana-key is located in the keyboard-matrix. I did know what the bit was for, but at the moment I don't remember. You should read some 'alternative' documents like the ones found at Maarten ter Huurne's page (right?) and at Funet. ~Grauw -- email me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] or ICQ: 10196372 visit my homepage at http://grauw.blehq.org/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Tuesday 21 November 2000 10:04, you wrote: I do not think this is true. The Kana-key is located in the keyboard-matrix. I did know what the bit was for, but at the moment I don't remember. You should read some 'alternative' documents like the ones found at Maarten ter Huurne's page (right?) and at Funet. Nothing about kana keys on my page... Normally I would guess Sean Young's page, but since he asked the question that's unlikely. ;) My docs say this: "0" for syllable layout; "1" for JIS layout I don't know what it means, though. Bye, Maarten -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
"0" for syllable layout; "1" for JIS layout I don't know what it means, though. Syllable means just letters and JIS means Japanese characters (hiragana or even kanji, probably). Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
Syllable means just letters and JIS means Japanese characters (hiragana or
even kanji, probably).
Syllable is not just letters, but special groups ("lettergrepen" in Dutch).
For example, "syllable" itself contains syllables "syl", "la" and "ble".
I know that. So in this context it means you can type letters (forming
syllables of Japanese sounds in roman characters).
JIS is "Japanese International Standard", it encodes the latin alphabet,
kanas and kanji.
Yup.
What I meant, is that I don't know what MSX hardware function this bit
controls.
Can't help you with that...
Grtjs, Manuel
PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/)
PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Tue, Nov 21, 2000 at 01:14:14PM +0100, Manuel Bilderbeek wrote: "0" for syllable layout; "1" for JIS layout I don't know what it means, though. Syllable means just letters and JIS means Japanese characters (hiragana or even kanji, probably). This is starting to make sense now. :) It's probably an extra key. Can anyone verify this on a Japanese MSX (Turbo R)? Is there a JIS key? And does it toggle? Cheers, Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000, Maarten ter Huurne wrote:
"0" for syllable layout; "1" for JIS layout
Syllable is not just letters, but special groups ("lettergrepen" in Dutch).
For example, "syllable" itself contains syllables "syl", "la" and "ble".
JIS is "Japanese International Standard", it encodes the latin alphabet,
kanas and kanji.
What I meant, is that I don't know what MSX hardware function this bit
controls.
Perhaps there are two types of japanese keyboard (as europeans have
querty/azerty keyboards). If this is the case, this bit could be read to
check the attached keyboard type.
Perhaps someone who owns a japanese computer can test this. If you can't
write your own test program, let me know and I'll do it.
Bye,
shevek
---
/** mastermind. input 4 numbers 0-5. output right.in the right place **/
main(){int c[4] ,x=3 ,l=getpid() ,i;; for( srand(l);c[ x]=- rand
()%6 ,x-- ;);; for( ;44 x;){ char a[9] ,*p=
"%.1f\n", b[9];x=i=0; gets(a);for (l=4 ;l-- ;)x+=-(a[l] -=48)==
(b[l ]=c[ l]); ;for (l=0;16i;l =++i %4)x
+=(b[i/4]+ a[l] ?0:( a[l]=b[i/4] =10)) ;printf(p,x *.1) ;};}
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
JIS means Japanese Industrial Standard. The new Japanese Industrial Standard for a coded character set, JIS X0213 (an enhancement to the current X0208), has been established on January the 21th, 2000. (Don't now wich version of JIS MSX uses, but probably an older definition of the character set) Each Japanese character is expressed in the computer by two consecutive bytes and is shown on the screen occupying two alphanumeric positions. The Japanese character set defines 6,355 Kanji (Chinese) characters for computer processing (JIS Code). In comparison, 7,445 characters (GB Code) and 13,523 characters (Big 5 code) are used in mainland China and Taiwan/Hongkong, respectively. Source: http://www.threeweb.ad.jp/logos/japanese.html http://jcs.aa.tufs.ac.jp/new-jis/index-e.htm -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Tue, 21 Nov 2000 11:04:50 +0100, Laurens Holst wrote: Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will be activated... I do not think this is true. The Kana-key is located in the keyboard-matrix. I did know what the bit was for, but at the moment I don't remember. You should read some 'alternative' documents like the ones found at Maarten ter Huurne's page (right?) and at Funet. Grauw Fudeba, Everything I know is that this bit was used by MegaSCSI in some some apps to "blink" the Kana Led (according to the program manuals). Later they replaced the use of Kana Led by Caps Led, because ocidental MSXs don't have Kana Led. If the european guys gave another use for this bit, I don't know. I don't know how it works, but if you ask me, I think this bit is set by software when you press kana key. It's difficult to make it by hardware, once PSG is not connected to PPI. -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000, Daniel Jorge Caetano wrote:
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:29:34 +0100, Sean Young wrote:
According to Portar.txt bit 6 of PSG register 14 is "On japanese machines only".
It's not the KANA led, that's bit 7 of PSG register 15. Does anyone know what
that bit does? The MSX redbook doesn't say anything. The dutch "MSX Handboek
for gevorderden" says the same as Portar.txt. Does anyone know what it is?
Do Japanese MSX computers have an extra key? (The KANA key seems to be the
same as the CODE key on international MSXes).
Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines
can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was
called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will
be activated...
Caps lock is locked in software. This explanation makes me think it is not
possible to (re)set the state of the kana key in software. Is this
correct? What is the reason for making it a hardware switch?
Bye,
shevek
---
/** mastermind. input 4 numbers 0-5. output right.in the right place **/
main(){int c[4] ,x=3 ,l=getpid() ,i;; for( srand(l);c[ x]=- rand
()%6 ,x-- ;);; for( ;44 x;){ char a[9] ,*p=
"%.1f\n", b[9];x=i=0; gets(a);for (l=4 ;l-- ;)x+=-(a[l] -=48)==
(b[l ]=c[ l]); ;for (l=0;16i;l =++i %4)x
+=(b[i/4]+ a[l] ?0:( a[l]=b[i/4] =10)) ;printf(p,x *.1) ;};}
--
For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 01:22:14AM -0400, Daniel Jorge Caetano wrote: On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:29:34 +0100, Sean Young wrote: According to Portar.txt bit 6 of PSG register 14 is "On japanese machines only". It's not the KANA led, that's bit 7 of PSG register 15. Does anyone know what that bit does? The MSX redbook doesn't say anything. The dutch "MSX Handboek for gevorderden" says the same as Portar.txt. Does anyone know what it is? Do Japanese MSX computers have an extra key? (The KANA key seems to be the same as the CODE key on international MSXes). Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will be activated... Hmm how exactly does this work? Is this bit set in hardware or in software? It doesn't make sense though. I haven't emulated this bit at all, but still the KANA led works fine, and it stays in KANA mode till you press it again. Sean -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will be activated... The CODE key can also be locked on the (European) Philips VG-8010 (and VG-8000, which is the same, but has only 16kB RAM). Funny. Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Mon, Nov 20, 2000 at 12:16:01PM +0100, Manuel Bilderbeek wrote: Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will be activated... The CODE key can also be locked on the (European) Philips VG-8010 (and VG-8000, which is the same, but has only 16kB RAM). Funny. Hmm how does it work on these machines? Does the actual key toggle? Or is there a led which goes on? How does it work in software? Sean Young -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
The CODE key can also be locked on the (European) Philips VG-8010 (and VG-8000, which is the same, but has only 16kB RAM). Funny. Hmm how does it work on these machines? Does the actual key toggle? Or is there a led which goes on? How does it work in software? I dunno about any details, but as far as I remember, the CODE key works exactly the same as the CAPS LOCK key, it has its own LED on those Philips machines. For Japanese machines it is probably to lock the keyboard for Japanese characters like katakana or hiragana. Grtjs, Manuel PS: MSX 4 EVER! (Questions? See: http://www.faq.msxnet.org/) PPS: Visit my home page at http://bilderbeek.cjb.net/ -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
PSG R#14 bit 6?
According to Portar.txt bit 6 of PSG register 14 is "On japanese machines only". It's not the KANA led, that's bit 7 of PSG register 15. Does anyone know what that bit does? The MSX redbook doesn't say anything. The dutch "MSX Handboek for gevorderden" says the same as Portar.txt. Does anyone know what it is? Do Japanese MSX computers have an extra key? (The KANA key seems to be the same as the CODE key on international MSXes). Sean Extract from Portar.txt: 14= I/O port A (Joystick and cassette) bit Expl. 0 = Joystick UP (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 1 = Joystick DOWN (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 2 = Joystick LEFT (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 3 = Joystick RIGHT (0=Moved, 1=Not moved) 4 = Joystick trigger A 5 = Joystick trigger B 6 = Keyboard mode (On japanese machines only) 7 = Cassette input 15= I/O port B (Joystick select) bit Expl. 0 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 1 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 2 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 3 = 1 (Used as handshaking output if touchpad) 4 = Pulse 1 (Positive pulse starting a monostable timer) 5 = Pulse 2 (Positive pulse starting a monostable timer) 6 = Joystick select (0=Connector 1, 1=Connector 2) 7 = Kana LED (Keyboard mode indicator. On japanese machines only) -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
Re: PSG R#14 bit 6?
On Mon, 20 Nov 2000 01:29:34 +0100, Sean Young wrote: According to Portar.txt bit 6 of PSG register 14 is "On japanese machines only". It's not the KANA led, that's bit 7 of PSG register 15. Does anyone know what that bit does? The MSX redbook doesn't say anything. The dutch "MSX Handboek for gevorderden" says the same as Portar.txt. Does anyone know what it is? Do Japanese MSX computers have an extra key? (The KANA key seems to be the same as the CODE key on international MSXes). Yes, it is... except by the fact the "code" in the Japanese Machines can be locked, in the same way Caps Lock. The "Code Lock" key was called Kana Key... and when it's locked, the mentioned bit (6) will be activated... - AbraçOS/2, Daniel Caetano ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) /| | | |\ \| ___ |/ OS/2: http://www.quasarbbs.com/daniel/ \/ - \/ MSX: http://www.fudeba.cjb.net/ | | Drawings: http://www.djgallery.tsx.org/ -- -- ...Programming to solve the mistery of life! -- For info, see http://www.stack.nl/~wynke/MSX/listinfo.html
