Re: Re:Re: [Muscle] How can I know what's the type of a card through it's ATR?
2009/1/14 lion yjfp...@163.com: ha, I got a little more information. There are characters NAGRAVISION on one side of the cards. And there wroted Swiss Mode. But I still have no clear idea about it. http://www.nagravision.com/ It should be a pay-tv card. One of the more secret cards. I don't think you can do anything with this card (except watch TV). In general, the game is to create faked pay-tv cards not try to use a real one. Bye -- Dr. Ludovic Rousseau ___ Muscle mailing list Muscle@lists.musclecard.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle
Re: [Muscle] How can I know what's the type of a card through it's ATR?
On Jan 13, 2009, at 5:30 PM, lion wrote: Thanks again for your informations. I have a last thing want to be confirmed that the commands defined in ISO7816-4 are not a standard? All commands are card dependent ? (Although sometimes different types may have the same commands set). There are a set of commands that are defined in various parts of ISO-7816 that are a standard, although it is the case that not all cards implement all commands. For example if you have a card without a filesystem on it, it probably won't implement the filesystem commands. Or, you may have a card that can do a VerifyPIN operation but does not use the defined VerifyPIN APDU that is specified in ISO-7816. The root cause of all this mess is because none of the smartcard manufacturers were mature enough to want to work *together* (rather than at cross- purposes) when the technology was being developed decades ago, so everyone gave lip service to the standards and went off and did their own thing anyway. I'm amazed that they could agree on a common set of contact pad functionality (in most cases ;-) and a common voltage! I am looking the OPENCT sourece, That's good, also look at OpenSC as well, and look over at the MUSCLE code, there's lots of good stuff in all those areas. Oh, if you want *my* advice - I would get into pig farming rather than smartcard programming, it's a lot more rewarding and you can bring home the bacon at the end of the day ;-) mike Thanks again! - bob If you don't know what type of card you have, then just sending random APDUs to the card won't do you much good, and you may wind up locking up the card and rendering it useless. In your example, you are looking at a Gemalto forum, do you think that your card is a Gemalto card of some type? You can try some common APDUs that work with OpenPlatform JavaCard So, I don't know here what commands I can use ? Do a Google search for OpenPlatform or have a look at the OpenSC sources for example to find more information on APDUs that you can use. And in my opinion, most of the commands in ISO7816-4 should SELECT FILE at first. So, I just try to implement the SELECT FILE command. Well, why do you think that you need to do a SELECT FILE at first? Some cards don't have any type of filesystem at all, so a SELECT FILE won't do anything with those types of cards. mike 《大话西游外传》贺岁新作，送豪宅、送你5000元压岁钱 ___ Muscle mailing list Muscle@lists.musclecard.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle ___ Muscle mailing list Muscle@lists.musclecard.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle
Re: [Muscle] How can I know what's the type of a card through it's ATR?
Michael Bender a écrit : [...] The root cause of all this mess is because none of the smartcard manufacturers were mature enough to want to work *together* when the technology was being developed decades ago that's unfair incorrect. ISO 7816-3 4 were defined decades ago by card manufacturer working together. the title of this topic is still correct: how to recognize _a_ card by its ATR the point is that no card manufacturer, nor any card integrator work with _a_ card, everybody works with a chosen, known card. everybody but people that plays (not works) with cards of course - the specs do not cover this point ... except the huge banking specs that did care about terminal stuff regarding card capabilities. Sylvain. ___ Muscle mailing list Muscle@lists.musclecard.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle
Re: [Muscle] How can I know what's the type of a card through it's ATR?
On Jan 14, 2009, at 5:11 PM, s.ferey wrote: Michael Bender a écrit : [...] The root cause of all this mess is because none of the smartcard manufacturers were mature enough to want to work *together* when the technology was being developed decades ago that's unfair incorrect. ISO 7816-3 4 were defined decades ago by card manufacturer working together. Well, I can believe that a bunch of card manufacturers all sat in the same room and everyone got to put in *their* own favorite APDUs and then at the end of the day when the actual silicon hit the streets, we had a bunch of random sort-of compliant cards out there, but as you say later on, no one really cared about interoperability until the mid 90's or so. the title of this topic is still correct: how to recognize _a_ card by its ATR the point is that no card manufacturer, nor any card integrator work with _a_ card, everybody works with a chosen, known card. Right, and that's a big problem when you move beyond the captive vertical market that the smartcard industry has loved for so long. The one biggest, most important forward-thinking feature of smartcards that was not standardized was an ID command of some sort (in the ATR or via a well-defined APDU), similar to the USB device descriptors or the SCSI ID commands. Why the smartcard industry didn't think that this was a good thing to have, even if they didn't care about working with their competitor's cards, is beyond me. everybody but people that plays (not works) with cards of course - the specs do not cover this point ... except the huge banking specs that did care about terminal stuff regarding card capabilities. That's not true for products like Sun Ray where we support many different cards from many different card vendors right out of the box for session mobility so tat when you install the Sun Ray product you can instantly use hundreds of different cards and card families in the Sun Ray. I and my colleagues went to great pains and spent many long nights getting this to work, and not having a universal ID command for cards was a challenge for. I don't characterize our work as play, given that it's been a core feature of our product since 2000. mike ___ Muscle mailing list Muscle@lists.musclecard.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle
Re:Re: [Muscle] How can I know what's the type of a card through it's ATR?
http://www.nagravision.com/ It should be a pay-tv card. One of the more secret cards. I don't think you can do anything with this card (except watch TV). In general, the game is to create faked pay-tv cards not try to use a real one. Yes, that's right. It's used in our set-top box(STB). I just try to do some base firmware tests now. And may be added supports under OpenCT later. I changed a card and readed out the ATR: TS: 3f T0: ff TA1:95 TB1:00 TC1: ff TD1: 91 TA2: 81 TD2:71 TA3:a0 TB3:47 TC3:00 History: 44 4e 415350 30 20 54 65 73 74 30 33 So, It should be a nagravision card , and there may be some unknow problems in the former card i used. But I got a new problem. The TD1 in the ATR is 0x91, so only protocol T=1 is supported. And TA1 is 0x95, that means Fi=9, Di=5,not Fd=Dd=1 any more. And TA2 is 0x81, means that it's Specific mode.and it's bit5=0. Then whether I needed sending PTS to select protocol T=1 after receiving ATR ? If needed, how to send it ? Because ISO7816 3.4 Protocol type selection (PTS) said If only one protocol type and FI=D=1 (default value of TA1) and N smaller than 255 is indicated in the answer to reset. The transmission protocol associated to the protocol type may be started immediately after the transmission of answer to reset. So, I can't send PTS because Fi=9 and Di=5, and N=0xff. If not, the following operations such as SELECT FILE use which F and D(Fi, Di or Fd, Dd) ? I did'not found clear answers in ISO7916-3 about these things. May be I shoule read it once more. Oh, if you want *my* advice - I would get into pig farming rather than smartcard programming, it's a lot more rewarding and you can bring home the bacon at the end of the day ;-) A ha, You have a good sense of humor. But sometimes it's no choice. It's so long, thank you for your time. --- Best Regards, Bob___ Muscle mailing list Muscle@lists.musclecard.com http://lists.drizzle.com/mailman/listinfo/muscle
