memory leak or memory hogging in 1.3.28?
Hi, all -- I'm back with more memory leak questions. I've made it to 1.3.28 with my full patch cocktail (see attached) and have still seen large memory footprints with mutt on large folders -- but not necessarily all large folders. For instance: [zero] [11:36pm] ~> ps aguxw | egrep PID\|mutt USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND davidtg 24302 0.0 0.1 2536 1268 pts/7SMar26 0:00 mutt -f =F.empeg davidtg 24322 0.0 0.6 7056 4452 pts/6SMar26 0:07 mutt -f =F.taxinfo davidtg 24333 0.0 0.5 5752 3520 pts/5SMar26 0:05 mutt -f =F.freenet davidtg 24368 0.0 0.3 4784 2464 pts/4SMar26 0:03 mutt -f =F.jobs davidtg 24398 0.0 0.2 3088 1744 pts/3SMar26 0:02 mutt -f =OF.get-a-job davidtg 9679 0.0 0.5 4604 3728 pts/10 SMar26 2:14 mutt davidtg 23936 0.0 8.6 59512 55780 pts/8 SMar28 0:53 mutt -f =F.mutt davidtg 23954 0.0 3.5 23604 22676 pts/16 SMar28 1:29 ./xfer/mutt/Clean/mutt-1.3.28i.patched-00 -f =F.mutt davidtg 4289 0.0 0.0 1144 480 pts/0S23:36 0:00 egrep PID|mutt [zero] [11:36pm] ~> ls -lFs Mail/F.* | sort -n | tail -5 22688 -rw--- 1 davidtg 23232505 Mar 30 19:35 Mail/F.taxinfo 25860 -rw--- 1 davidtg 26478371 Mar 30 13:04 Mail/F.url 30300 -rw--- 1 davidtg 31025150 Mar 30 23:33 Mail/F.mutt 35556 -rw--- 1 davidtg 36406001 Mar 29 19:20 Mail/F.lists 59100 -rw--- 1 davidtg 60514419 Mar 30 23:14 Mail/F.funnies Note the taxinfo folder; while it's nearly as large as the mutt folder and is open just as much, its footprint is enormously smaller than that of the mutt folder. Note also the two mutt processes running on folder =F.mutt; 23936 is my patched version, while 23954 is plain stock. I'd like to know why my cocktail is so big, but even the clean one takes a whale of a lot of memory. This hasn't taken terribly long to grow, either, and when they started they were still bigger than the other mutts: [zero] [11:40pm] ~> head ./mutt-memory-size-cron-check.dat Thu Mar 28 10:30:25 EST 2002 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND davidtg 23936 1.1 1.8 12576 11744 pts/8 S10:22 0:05 mutt -f =F.mutt davidtg 23954 1.1 1.8 12552 11744 pts/16 S10:23 0:04 ./xfer/mutt/Clean/mutt-1.3.28i.patched-00 -f =F.mutt Thu Mar 28 10:30:57 EST 2002 USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND davidtg 23936 1.0 1.8 12576 11744 pts/8 S10:22 0:05 mutt -f =F.mutt davidtg 23954 1.0 1.8 12552 11744 pts/16 S10:23 0:04 ./xfer/mutt/Clean/mutt-1.3.28i.patched-00 -f =F.mutt [I have a cron job running to watch them to see if either suddenly spikes.] What contributes to memory usage? The taxinfo folder isn't very threaded; it's not a discussion list. The freenet folder is threaded, but it's only 8M or so. More to the point, what do I need to do to track this down? Even if we exclude for the moment the cocktail, should the stock version be that big or might there really be a problem after all? What additional data can I provide? Should I file a flea with as little to go on as I have? I've put =F.mutt (as of this hour; compressed to just about 7M) and the data file (by link, so it's up to date) up at http://mutt.justpickone.org/whatleak/ for anyone to grab for debugging if necessary; I don't think there's anything special in the folder, but maybe so. TIA & HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! Mutt 1.3.28i (2002-03-13) Copyright (C) 1996-2001 Michael R. Elkins and others. Mutt comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY; for details type `mutt -vv'. Mutt is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; type `mutt -vv' for details. System: Linux 2.4.5 (i686) [using ncurses 5.0] Compile options: -DOMAIN -DEBUG +HOMESPOOL -USE_SETGID +USE_DOTLOCK +DL_STANDALONE +USE_FCNTL -USE_FLOCK +USE_POP +USE_IMAP -IMAP_EDIT_THREADS -USE_GSS -USE_SSL -USE_SASL +HAVE_REGCOMP -USE_GNU_REGEX +HAVE_COLOR +HAVE_START_COLOR +HAVE_TYPEAHEAD +HAVE_BKGDSET +HAVE_CURS_SET +HAVE_META +HAVE_RESIZETERM +HAVE_PGP -BUFFY_SIZE -EXACT_ADDRESS -SUN_ATTACHMENT +ENABLE_NLS -LOCALES_HACK +COMPRESSED +HAVE_WC_FUNCS +HAVE_LANGINFO_CODESET ++HAVE_LANGINFO_YESEXPR +HAVE_ICONV -ICONV_NONTRANS +HAVE_GETSID +HAVE_GETADDRINFO ISPELL="/usr/bin/ispell" SENDMAIL="/usr/sbin/sendmail" MAILPATH="Mailbox" PKGDATADIR="/home/davidtg/local/share/mutt" SYSCONFDIR="/home/davidtg/local/etc" EXECSHELL="/bin/sh" -MIXMASTER To contact the developers, please mail to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>. To report a bug, please use the flea(1) utility. Patches I have applied (I find this non-sta
Re: X-Mailer header
Jeremy, et al -- ...and then Jeremy Blosser said... % % On Mar 30, David T-G [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: % > ObTopic: I personally feel that X-Mailer should be available just like % > every X-anything-else, but I don't care much more than that. % % I'm not really sure what the deal is; it *is* available as far as I can % tell. See the headers on this message. I was going on the initial statement that it goes away after a postponement. I didn't care enough to test it myself :-) HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26435/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X-Mailer header
On Mar 30, David T-G [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: > ObTopic: I personally feel that X-Mailer should be available just like > every X-anything-else, but I don't care much more than that. I'm not really sure what the deal is; it *is* available as far as I can tell. See the headers on this message. msg26434/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: X-Mailer header
Michael, et al -- ...and then Michael Tatge said... % % John Buttery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered: % > * Sven Guckes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-03-29 22:27:02 +0100]: % > >Sven [and *dont* touch indent_prefix or sigdashes!] % > % > Actually, isn't the prefix supposed to be ">" whereas mutt uses "> " % > by default? % % NO. It's "> " Period. Please don't make a new OT thread out of this, % especially you David. ;-) I was trying *so* hard not to get involved! Arrrgh; now you've done it. % % Michael % -- % PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key ObTopic: I personally feel that X-Mailer should be available just like every X-anything-else, but I don't care much more than that. HAND :-D -- David T-G * It's easier to fight for one's principles (play) [EMAIL PROTECTED] * than to live up to them. -- fortune cookie (work) [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.justpickone.org/davidtg/Shpx gur Pbzzhavpngvbaf Qrprapl Npg! msg26433/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: disable UIDL -> fetchmail?
* Guilherme Menegon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-03-30 19:02]: > My POP3 server does not support UIDL (unique ID > listing) and because of that mutt can not fetch my > mail. How can i disable UIDL in mutt? I don't need > this feature since i leave no messages on server. well, if you are sure that mutt cannot do something then why do you want a solution with mutt? ;-) I'd say "set pop_delete=yes" - but will that help? Have you considered downloading your mails with "fetchmail" yet? Sven -- Sven [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mutt-versions] Latest versions: MUTT http://www.mutt.org/ news:comp.mail.mutt mutt-1.2.5 [000729] MUTT http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/mutt/ mutt-1.3.28 [020313] MUTT MUTT - *the* mailer for UNIX with color, threading, IMAP+MIME+PGP+POP
Re: Mutt ignoring 'From ' lines in mailbox - Content-Length?
* James Greenwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-03-30 17:05]:
> I have recently switched from Pine to Mutt and I have several mailboxes
> that open fine in Pine but not in Mutt. Mutt seems to concatenate some
> of the messages together so that there are fewer messages in the
> index...
Are there any Content-Length lines? If so - delete them.
It's easy with vi:
$ vi ~/Mail/folder
:g/^Content-Length:$/d
:x
$ mutt -f ~/Mail/folder
Does it work now?
> .. how can I re-order an existing mailbox file by date so that
> the file itself changes, rather than doing it dynamically (and
> slowly on a large mailbox) every time the mailbox is opened?
Tag all messages and the save them to a new file (folder).
T tag-pattern
. all ("contains at least some character")
; tag-prefix (applies following command to all tagges messages)
C copy-message
+NEW foldername "NEW"
The folder "NEW" (usually ~/Mail/NEW) should now
contain all the messages in the current order.
To change the order use 'o' ("sort-mailbox") -
before copying/saving the messages to a new folder.
have fun! :-)
Sven
--
Sven Guckes http://www.math.fu-berlin.de/~guckes/mutt/setup.html
Mutt setup from scratch, Sven's sample setup; attribution, "limit", "list"
vs "subscribe", histories, mailcap, POP, hooks, use of external pagers,
troubleshooting, adding header lines, "from Mozilla to Mutt".
Re: gnupg
begin quoting what keeper1 said on Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 12:48:23PM -0500: > Greetings! As a newbie to mutt, I was wondering if somebody could direct > me to a site that has a howto for mutt and gnupg to get me started. http://www.mutt.org msg26430/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
disable UIDL
Hi list, After unsuccessfully searching the manuals, mutt.org, the archives and google about this subject, i ask for your help: My POP3 server does not support UIDL (unique ID listing) and because of that mutt can not fetch my mail. How can i disable UIDL in mutt? I don't need this feature since i leave no messages on server. thanks for your assistence, Guilherme __ Guilherme Menegon ArantesSao Paulo, Brasil __
Re: PGP signing (newbie)
John Buttery <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: (Sorry, that it took quite a while for me to reply -- I'm always slow on these things...) > Well, here's my two cents for you to add to the stuff you're reading > up on. Thank you very much, I appreciate it. :-) > I encrypt every message I can (which isn't many yet, *sigh*), sign all > private mail except to the really militant dissenters (i.e. users of a > particular version of Eudora that actually locks up trying to read the > message...), and sign all list mail. Well yeah, after Feztaa demonstrated the spoofing of an email address, I begun to sign *every* mail, as well. It actually was *pretty* scary to see me -- my email address and signature -- writing that shit; for a second I even thought I was hallucinating. ;-) What comes to encrypting, that I haven't done yet (except testing it). But I know, that it's definitely coming in use one day, as some of the mails I send, are pretty damn personal and if a mail like that would end up in wrong hands... ah well, I don't even want to think about it. > My own reasons for signing all list mail are thus: > > 1) It increases awareness of cryptography as a mainstream utility. > Sometimes people ask me about it, maybe others silently look it up on > the web or consult their local nerd resource. :) This is kinda a minor > reason though. This is actually pretty good point. And I agree, cryptography should, indeed, be brought before the eyes of every data communicator, or better; every computer user whatsoever -- as it is said, "you can't be too careful". > Now let me just explicitly say that what I'm about to describe is > _not_ (there's that super-sized emphasis again) a substitute for actual > signatures on a key. This is just a suggestion for a "second-best" > procedure... > By signing all public mail, I am creating a far-flung "paper trail" on > the web and in people's mailboxes of all my signed email. What this > means is, that if someone gets a message that's signed by a key with my > name on it but has no sigs that they themselves trust, they can consult > something like Google and find its archive of 2.3 to the power of spork > messages that are signed by my public key. They can then say, OK, > whoever signed this message also signed all those other messages. A > careful examination of a cross-section of those messages may give them > some clue, maybe through speech patterns etc, that the person from all > those messages is the same one who sent the email they now have in their > inbox. Again, it's not a substitute for actual web-of-trust sigs, but > it does at least a little good in a pinch. Just the fact that there are > a zillion things out there with my sig lends it credence; after all, it > would take a lot of motivation for someone to bother creating a fake key > and then manually composing all those messages over the course of time > just to fake someone out. Yeah, you are right. Once you've sort of "shown", that you sign every goddamn mail you send, at least people should be alert, if they receive a message without signing from an address which implies the one you have. Then they can more easily deduct, that the mail they got, can be or *probably* is spoofed. As you sign every mail, people will learn that and they know to expect a signed mail from *you*. I hope you get my point; I'm a bit tired and dizzy at the moment, and my thoughts are pretty slow tonight... > Oh, and of course I also sign just to keep Rob from forging my email. > :) LOL! It was scary, now wasn't it?:-) > still haven't fixed the sig rotation script. Once you have, could you let me know -- I'd be interested too. :-) -- Jussi Ekholm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Jesus is on opium, Jesus needs a fix, http://erppimaa.cjb.net/~ekhowl/ | Singing love, brother love, ekh @ IRCNet | Singing love, brother love... msg26428/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Mutt ignoring 'From ' lines in mailbox
Hello I have recently switched from Pine to Mutt and I have several mailboxes that open fine in Pine but not in Mutt. Mutt seems to concatenate some of the messages together so that there are fewer messages in the index, but some contain multiple messages concatenated together when you open them, and I can see valid-looking 'From ' lines dotted throughout the bodies of those long messages. E.g. one mailbox has 102 messages when I open it in Pine but only 3 in Mutt. When I view a mailbox in a text viewing program like 'less' it looks fine (to me), there are lots of e-mail messages and they are separated by lines that begin 'From ' - which Mutt seems to be ignoring in some cases. I don't know what else to look for regarding a possible corrupt mailbox. I've been reading the documentation but I can't find any option in Mutt to control what format it expects mailboxes to have or how it opens them - the manual says auto-detects the format. As far as I know the files are in standard UNIX mbox format. Originally the folders were transferred from Microsoft Outlook using a program called 'LibDBX' which I downloaded from Freshmeat, which translates Outlook Express .dbx files into UNIX mailbox files. The program worked perfectly (apparently) and for the last few months I've been accessing the UNIX mailboxes in Pine with no problems - it's only since I switched to Mutt that the problem started. The only odd thing that the LibDBX program did was to put the messages in the mailbox file in the exact opposite order to what I expected - the newest are at the top, whereas UNIX e-mail programs seem to add new messages to the end. This wasn't a serious problem in itself because Pine (like any mailer) can re-sort them when you open the mailbox. So a second and perhaps related question is - how can I re-order an existing mailbox file by date so that the file itself changes, rather than doing it dynamically (and slowly on a large mailbox) every time the mailbox is opened? Perhaps if I could solve this problem the first problem might go away because the whole file would get re-generated from scratch, assuming the program I use to to that can read it in the first place. Thanks James
Re: gnupg
http://www.mutt.org has a few links to pgp/gpg stuff. take alook. On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 12:48:23PM -0500, keeper1 wrote: > Greetings! As a newbie to mutt, I was wondering if somebody could direct > me to a site that has a howto for mutt and gnupg to get me started. > Thanks for anything. > > Regards, > Mike > > -- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > "Don't Fear The Penguin." -- Peter Abplanalp President - Senior Developer PSA Consultants, Inc. Cell:(303) 810-9574 Fax: (303) 790-7504 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] PGP: pgp.mit.edu Address: 10408 Carriage Club Drive Littleton, CO 80124 msg26426/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
gnupg
Greetings! As a newbie to mutt, I was wondering if somebody could direct me to a site that has a howto for mutt and gnupg to get me started. Thanks for anything. Regards, Mike -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Don't Fear The Penguin."
Re: gpg multible keyrings
Michael Tatge ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered:
> Shawn McMahon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered:
> > begin quoting what Michael Tatge said on Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 02:43:12PM +0100:
> > >
> > > I'd like to have an extra keyring for this list.
> >
> > What problem are you trying to solve?
>
> Seems to work now. I forgot to use --keyring in $pgp_verify_command.
Correction - the only var you need to toggle is $pgp_import_command.
Michael
--
if (argc > 1 && strcmp(argv[1], "-advice") == 0) {
printf("Don't Panic!\n");
exit(42);
}
(Arnold Robbins in the LJ of February '95, describing RCS)
PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key
Re: gpg multible keyrings
Shawn McMahon ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered: > begin quoting what Michael Tatge said on Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 02:43:12PM +0100: > > > > I'd like to have an extra keyring for this list. > > What problem are you trying to solve? Seems to work now. I forgot to use --keyring in $pgp_verify_command. Thanx, Michael -- "Oh, I've seen copies [of Linux Journal] around the terminal room at The Labs." (By Dennis Ritchie) PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key
Re: gpg multible keyrings
begin quoting what Michael Tatge said on Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 02:43:12PM +0100: > > I'd like to have an extra keyring for this list. What problem are you trying to solve? msg26422/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
gpg multible keyrings
Hi all! I'd like to have an extra keyring for this list. I can set folder-hooks to set $pgp_* varibles, but how do I tell gpg which key to use? There is the --keyring option, but as the man page said it only introduces a new keyring to gpg. TIA, Michael -- "I once witnessed a long-winded, month-long flamewar over the use of mice vs. trackballs...It was very silly." (By Matt Welsh) PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key
Re: Display Error Redux
Hi, * Michael Tatge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [02-03-30 14:11]: >I just have a keyserver in my options file and >pgp_getkeys_command="" >gpg will fetch any key not in your keyring from the keyserver. No need >to specify pgp_getkeys_command. >Works like charm. Works like a charm, right. Thank you very much! Thorsten -- Death to all fanatics!
Re: Display Error Redux
On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 02:11:21PM +0100, Michael Tatge wrote: > Rocco Rutte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered: > > > I only have: > > > > set pgp_getkeys_command="gpg --batch --recv-keys %r > /dev/null 2>&1" > > I just have a keyserver in my options file and > pgp_getkeys_command="" > gpg will fetch any key not in your keyring from the keyserver. No need > to specify pgp_getkeys_command. > Works like charm. When displaying a message, yes. Documentation says it's used whenever Mutt need information about a public key. So I don't know wether other situations may occur. This seems not to be the case. After looking at the sample rc files comming with mutt, it seems that it is only required for pgp6 users. Maybe drop a note somewhere? Cheers, Rocco
Re: Display Error Redux
Rocco Rutte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered: > On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 01:33:36PM +0100, Thorsten Haude wrote: > > set pgp_verify_command="gpg --no-verbose --quiet --batch -o - --verify %s %f" > > set pgp_getkeys_command="gpg --no-secmem-warning --no-verbose --batch >--with-colons --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys %r" > The second line seems pretty strange to me. The keyserver should be placed > in ~/.gnupg/options to make it available to all apps and not only Mutt. > > I only have: > > set pgp_getkeys_command="gpg --batch --recv-keys %r > /dev/null 2>&1" I just have a keyserver in my options file and pgp_getkeys_command="" gpg will fetch any key not in your keyring from the keyserver. No need to specify pgp_getkeys_command. Works like charm. HTH, Michael -- I did this 'cause Linux gives me a woody. It doesn't generate revenue. (Dave '-ddt->` Taylor, announcing DOOM for Linux) PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key msg26418/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Display Error Redux
On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 01:33:36PM +0100, Thorsten Haude wrote: > set pgp_verify_command="gpg --no-verbose --quiet --batch -o - --verify %s %f" > set pgp_getkeys_command="gpg --no-secmem-warning --no-verbose --batch --with-colons >--keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys %r" [...] > > I neither see anything wrong with the second line, nor do I understand > why $pgp_getkeys_command is called for verifying a signature. > Do you have any ideas? The second line seems pretty strange to me. The keyserver should be placed in ~/.gnupg/options to make it available to all apps and not only Mutt. If everything works (except display corruption) you may wish to direct the output to /dev/null. The statistics about imported keys is still placed above the message. I only have: set pgp_getkeys_command="gpg --batch --recv-keys %r > /dev/null 2>&1" HTH, Cheers, Rocco.
Re: X-Mailer header
John Buttery ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) muttered: > * Sven Guckes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-03-29 22:27:02 +0100]: > >Sven [and *dont* touch indent_prefix or sigdashes!] > > Actually, isn't the prefix supposed to be ">" whereas mutt uses "> " > by default? NO. It's "> " Period. Please don't make a new OT thread out of this, especially you David. ;-) Michael -- PGP-Key: http://www-stud.ims.uni-stuttgart.de/~tatgeml/public.key
Display Error Redux
Hi, I should have done this earlier, but I finally went through my mutt.rc line by line to see why I have display problems. It boils down to these two lines: - - - Schnipp - - - set pgp_verify_command="gpg --no-verbose --quiet --batch -o - --verify %s %f" set pgp_getkeys_command="gpg --no-secmem-warning --no-verbose --batch --with-colons --keyserver wwwkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys %r" - - - Schnapp - - - With only the first line, all works well; with both lines, the display is corrupted whenever Mutt verifies a signature, even with keys I already have in my keychain. I neither see anything wrong with the second line, nor do I understand why $pgp_getkeys_command is called for verifying a signature. Do you have any ideas? tia, Thorsten -- The history of Liberty is a history of the limitation of government power. - Woodrow Wilson
Re: X-Mailer header
* Sven Guckes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2002-03-29 22:27:02 +0100]: >Sven [and *dont* touch indent_prefix or sigdashes!] Actually, isn't the prefix supposed to be ">" whereas mutt uses "> " by default? -- geez, it was working yesterday... msg26414/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
Hi, On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 10:36:41:AM + Simon White wrote: > Computer courses should teach about computers, not some proprietary > software guff. Doesn't have to be programming, but how about file systems, > and troubleshooting procedures? Troubleshooting is part of what I think makes most sence. Everybody should learn how to help yourself, including how to gain knowledge, searching for information and stuff like that. Just fundamental things of how to get used to a certain environment on your own. The Windows GUI-only knowledge doesn't help a lot if 'vi' (or edit.com) is the only tool someone has to make the GUI working. Mice won't help a lot if you have to edit config files to make the mouse working... Btw, I often see that former DOS users are having much less trouble to get used to Unix and shells than Windows users. Cheers, Rocco. msg26413/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: OT: OS definition thread
30-Mar-02 at 10:26, Rocco Rutte ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote : > No! I was writing about schools. At _school_ others were told how to use > Word and Works. Our teacher really asked us what we want to do the last > two two years in Computer Science. So we decided _not_ to learn how to > use MS Office. The only courses that should teach how to use MS Office are secretarial courses. Anyone with an ounce of computer sense will be doing something far more interesting than what we used to call "typesetting". Computer courses should teach about computers, not some proprietary software guff. Doesn't have to be programming, but how about file systems, and troubleshooting procedures? That is where the world at large is sadly lacking... -- [Simon White. vim/mutt. [EMAIL PROTECTED] GIMPS:60.41% see www.mersenne.org] When the bosses talk about improving productivity, they are never talking about themselves. [Linux user #170823 http://counter.li.org. Home cooked signature rotator.]
Re: OT: OS definition thread
Hi, On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 10:16:13:PM -0700 Rob 'Feztaa' Park wrote: > Alas! Rocco Rutte spake thus: > > In Computer Science I spent two terms on creating a website on something > > dealing with new media (okay, surfing all the time and hacking it > > together in 1/2 day before deadline). Others students have to write web > > pages with Word and do some 'office' with Works. Again: what to expect? > Computer Science? You mean, university level computer science? You try to fool me? ;-) > They > teach you to use MSWord at university? No! I was writing about schools. At _school_ others were told how to use Word and Works. Our teacher really asked us what we want to do the last two two years in Computer Science. So we decided _not_ to learn how to use MS Office. > Get your money back, you were > cheated! Any idiot can use Word with no training. To spend money on > learning this is nothing more than a waste. ... of time, too. Cheers, Rocco. msg26411/pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
