Re: saved or deleted?
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 06:49:54PM -0500, Derek Martin wrote: > On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 02:33:01PM -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote: > > The message index shows a "D" when a message has been > > deleted or when it has been saved. Is there a way > > to distinguish which of the two operations (delete > > or save) has been performed? > > As Florian points out, the message is marked "D" because Mutt has, in > fact, executed the delete operation on it. It will be purged the next > time you sync (or change folders, if so configured), unless you > (u)ndelete it beforehand. The deletion is essentially what > distinguishes the "save message" and "copy message" operations. > > Why, then, do you feel the need to distinguish between a deletion > caused by a copy, and a deletion caused by you explicitly deleting the > message? In both cases, it is legitimately a deletion. Rephrasing, how can I tell if a deleted message has been copied? Currently, if I am uncertain I have to copy it just in case and in the future, delete the duplicate if I created one. Jon -- Jon H. LaBadie j...@jgcomp.com 11226 South Shore Rd. (703) 787-0688 (H) Reston, VA 20190 (703) 935-6720 (C)
Re: saved or deleted?
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016, Derek Martin wrote:
> Why, then, do you feel the need to distinguish between a deletion
> caused by a copy, and a deletion caused by you explicitly deleting the
> message? In both cases, it is legitimately a deletion.
In the former case the user still has a copy of the message, in the
latter case most likely not...
Seems like a good addition IMHO ("did I actually copied it to
a different folder or did I simply delete it?")
Re: [SPAM?] Re: list-reply without Cc?
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 04:42:10PM -0700, Will Yardley wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 12:08:30PM +0200, Gabriel Philippe wrote: >> I don't know if this is relevant: the list is not a real list with >> appropriate headers, and most of the people use poorly-designed MUA >> (no Mail-Followup-To, etc.). > > To be fair, Mail-Followup-To was never turned into a standard. Yeah, that's fair. It's not like majordomo and LISTSERV were going to change back then anyway. > You could make a (convincing) argument that Mutt is incorrect for > continuing to use it, vs. that other MUAs are wrong for not using / > following it. This, however, I must disagree on for the simple reason that the absence of MUST or SHOULD with regards any project or proposal does not automatically imply MUST NOT or SHOULD NOT. Since the existing standards made no decision, it's a design decision for as long as it does not interfere with a standardised feature or attribute. :D > It's a draft from 1997 that expired in 1998, and I don't think was ever > ratified as standards-track or as a standard. I think you're probably right. That's roughly when it started popping up in Mailman and then later in Sympa. Too many geeks adored the List-Id tag for the benefit of procmail (and now mailfilter) rules for it to ever die. Regards, Ben signature.asc Description: PGP signature
[SPAM?] Re: list-reply without Cc?
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 12:08:30PM +0200, Gabriel Philippe wrote: > I don't know if this is relevant: the list is not a real list with > appropriate headers, and most of the people use poorly-designed MUA > (no Mail-Followup-To, etc.). To be fair, Mail-Followup-To was never turned into a standard. You could make a (convincing) argument that Mutt is incorrect for continuing to use it, vs. that other MUAs are wrong for not using / following it. It's a draft from 1997 that expired in 1998, and I don't think was ever ratified as standards-track or as a standard. w
Re: saved or deleted?
On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 02:33:01PM -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote: > The message index shows a "D" when a message has been > deleted or when it has been saved. Is there a way > to distinguish which of the two operations (delete > or save) has been performed? As Florian points out, the message is marked "D" because Mutt has, in fact, executed the delete operation on it. It will be purged the next time you sync (or change folders, if so configured), unless you (u)ndelete it beforehand. The deletion is essentially what distinguishes the "save message" and "copy message" operations. Why, then, do you feel the need to distinguish between a deletion caused by a copy, and a deletion caused by you explicitly deleting the message? In both cases, it is legitimately a deletion. -- Derek D. Martinhttp://www.pizzashack.org/ GPG Key ID: 0xDFBEAD02 -=-=-=-=- This message is posted from an invalid address. Replying to it will result in undeliverable mail due to spam prevention. Sorry for the inconvenience. pgpzUhYpHFarx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: list-reply without Cc?
On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 12:08:30PM +0200, Gabriel Philippe wrote: > Thanks Ben, but I realize my question was not accurate. I am > disappointed by having recipients in Cc when I use list-reply on my > own messages (match alternates). > > Ex: > - I am subscribed to a list (with mutt's subscribe command), > - I have sent a message to A (not in the list), Cc the list and B, > - I want to list-reply my own message, to add some remarks to the list only. > > In this case the defaults recipients after list-reply are: > To: the list > Cc: A, B That's pretty standard behavious for a group reply or reply-all. > A and B are not supposed to read my remarks, and I sometimes forget > to remove them (no need to do it when list-replying other people' > messages). I have not found an option to change this behaviour, and > can't think of a not-too-dirty macro. You probably don't have much choice this time, because: > I don't know if this is relevant: the list is not a real list with > appropriate headers, and most of the people use poorly-designed MUA > (no Mail-Followup-To, etc.). It's extremely relevant; indeed, it's why it doesn't behave the way you'd like. Without the ^List-* headers, there's nothing for Mutt to know for sure what it ought to be responding to without human intervention. Without that, though, there is no real (consistent) way for code to know the difference between a mailing list post or a single message from someone. If it could, well, it'd almost certainly pass a Turing test and that might not be what you'd want in your MUA. Regards, Ben -- | Ben McGinnes | Adversarial Press | Author and Publisher | | Writer, Trainer, Systems Administrator, Developer, ICT Consultant | | Twitter: @benmcginnes (personal) | @AdversaryPub (publishing) | | Web: http://www.adversary.org/ http://publishing.adversary.org/ | signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: saved or deleted?
Hi Jon, On 2016-08-29 14:33, Jon LaBadie wrote: The message index shows a "D" when a message has been deleted or when it has been saved. Is there a way to distinguish which of the two operations (delete or save) has been performed? "saving" a message -- as in "moving to another mailbox" -- means "copy to another mailbox and then delete it from the current mailbox". So strictly speaking, there is no way to distinguish these two operations. If you really care about whether you performed the correct operation, you should do it in more than one step. Delete your unwanted messages. Sync mailbox. Save your messages to another mailbox. Sync. When you save your messages to another mailbox, you will be prompted to type in the destination and you will get a status message on success, so you will definitely notice if you deleted your messages instead. -- Kind regards Flo
Re: list-reply without Cc?
Thanks Ben, but I realize my question was not accurate. I am disappointed by having recipients in Cc when I use list-reply on my own messages (match alternates). Ex: - I am subscribed to a list (with mutt's subscribe command), - I have sent a message to A (not in the list), Cc the list and B, - I want to list-reply my own message, to add some remarks to the list only. In this case the defaults recipients after list-reply are: To: the list Cc: A, B A and B are not supposed to read my remarks, and I sometimes forget to remove them (no need to do it when list-replying other people' messages). I have not found an option to change this behaviour, and can't think of a not-too-dirty macro. I don't know if this is relevant: the list is not a real list with appropriate headers, and most of the people use poorly-designed MUA (no Mail-Followup-To, etc.). -- Gabriel
