Re: Please read the manual
Mr. Samuel, Im new in this field (mysql, linux, etc.), I am a MCSE, and at this time, I try to impulse this software (Mysql, Linux, etc) in Central America, I see many feactures in this software but I need to Know if exist a maillist for dummies as I, mybe in a two months I can give to people like you (MySQL Development Team) a good feed back to make this software the best of the world, that I think is your objetive, please, patience sir. Thanks Edwin Neff Patrick K ha escrito: Maybe it is the lack of coffee this morning talking or maybe it is the fact that I have spent 4 days trying to get mysql up and running on linux(a platform I am unfamiliar with) but I assumes this mailing list would allow me to have contact with other users who have been thru the same issues I have had. Apparently I was wrong. You see I am a newbie too and what turned me on to mysql ,linux and the open source movement was the fact that it seems to focus on the power of people and there combined knowledge. I am not stupid and I can read in fact I have look over this manual about 100 times now the last four evenings. I apologize for wasting anyone's time but before I can become a valid contributor to a group dealing with a specific software I first have to be able to get the thing running. I in fact finally got mysql up and running last night but not one word in your manual helped me do it. So in fact all the reading in the world would have left me sitting in the same position. I am sorry to rant and rave but maybe if some seasoned user on this mailing list (not the developers) would help us newbies then we could all work together to. That is my two cents sorry to waste your time with it. -Original Message- From: Tnu Samuel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please read the manual Maybe it is my depression and I see everything in black but please read manual before posting questions in this list. Manual covers at least 90% questions asked here. If manual does not cover them, we will put new chapters in it. This is all because what we do in this list can be called FREE support. As much I know, most of our developers are spending 2..4 hours per day just reading all related groups and answering questions "Error 2002: Can't connect via socket /tmp/mysql.sock". Also I wanted to ask everyone who gets revenue from MySQL still buy support contract. While MySQL is free to users there are people behind it who eat, buy books, pay for internet connection get hardware and buy icecream to kids. This is not about home users. There are companies on NASDAQ who use heavily different open source software for their success and have never paid a penny. For that money you get guaranteed answers. MySQL is free, support in this list is partially free but do not abuse it, then it can stay free in future. -- MySQL Development Team __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ / Tonu Samuel [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, http://www.mysql.com/ /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Tallinn, Estonia ___/ -- - Please check "http://www.mysql.com/documentation/manual.php" before posting. To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have a broken mail client that cannot send a message to the above address (Microsoft Outlook), you can use: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php -- Edwin Martinez G. Ingenieria Aplicada S.A. / Grupo MICRO Guatemala, Guatemala Tel: +(502) 3326480 / 3345175 Web: http://www.micro.com.gt - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Please read the manual
In order to conserver bw I'll only through my $0.01 in...;) I do believe that if you search the list you will see that many of us who are not on the devteam do answer questions. Although I do whole heartedly believe in RTFM; I agree with you about the power of the people, and feel it is important for all of us to help by giving back to our community...;D Cheers, Mikel Neff Patrick K wrote: Maybe it is the lack of coffee this morning talking or maybe it is the fact that I have spent 4 days trying to get mysql up and running on linux(a platform I am unfamiliar with) but I assumes this mailing list would allow me to have contact with other users who have been thru the same issues I have had. Apparently I was wrong. You see I am a newbie too and what turned me on to mysql ,linux and the open source movement was the fact that it seems to focus on the power of people and there combined knowledge. I am not stupid and I can read in fact I have look over this manual about 100 times now the last four evenings. I apologize for wasting anyone's time but before I can become a valid contributor to a group dealing with a specific software I first have to be able to get the thing running. I in fact finally got mysql up and running last night but not one word in your manual helped me do it. So in fact all the reading in the world would have left me sitting in the same position. I am sorry to rant and rave but maybe if some seasoned user on this mailing list (not the developers) would help us newbies then we could all work together to. That is my two cents sorry to waste your time with it. -Original Message- From: Tnu Samuel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please read the manual Maybe it is my depression and I see everything in black but please read manual before posting questions in this list. Manual covers at least 90% questions asked here. If manual does not cover them, we will put new chapters in it. This is all because what we do in this list can be called FREE support. As much I know, most of our developers are spending 2..4 hours per day just reading all related groups and answering questions "Error 2002: Can't connect via socket /tmp/mysql.sock". Also I wanted to ask everyone who gets revenue from MySQL still buy support contract. While MySQL is free to users there are people behind it who eat, buy books, pay for internet connection get hardware and buy icecream to kids. This is not about home users. There are companies on NASDAQ who use heavily different open source software for their success and have never paid a penny. For that money you get guaranteed answers. MySQL is free, support in this list is partially free but do not abuse it, then it can stay free in future. -- MySQL Development Team __ ___ ___ __ / |/ /_ __/ __/ __ \/ / Tonu Samuel [EMAIL PROTECTED] / /|_/ / // /\ \/ /_/ / /__ MySQL AB, http://www.mysql.com/ /_/ /_/\_, /___/\___\_\___/ Tallinn, Estonia ___/ -- - Please check "http://www.mysql.com/documentation/manual.php" before posting. To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you have a broken mail client that cannot send a message to the above address (Microsoft Outlook), you can use: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
Re: Please read the manual
It is not that the "seasoned veterans" don't want to help you. They want to know that you have helped yourself first before seeking help from them. It is obvious when someone asks a question and they haven't tried reading the manual first. A question that comes up from time to time is "how do I install mysql?". This is obviously a sign that the person hasn't even bothered trying to read the manual. The installation isn't just a simple process and each platform has its differences and odd little quirks. How can seasoned veterans answer such a question? They can either quote the whole manual or tell you to download and read it for yourself. If you had said "I did this, this and this as per the manual but got this error/have this problem", people are more than willing to assist you, if they know the answer, and they will also have some idea of where you are going wrong. Quoting a sentence/example from the manual will show that you have at least tried on your own first. I answered one guy's question earlier on today who did just that. Quoted from the manual, that is. At least that shows he tried first before seeking help. If you are a newbie to SQL in general, ie. you don't even know how to write simple SELECT, INSERT and DELETE statements, then you have most certainly come to the wrong place. I was a newbie once, but through trial and error and reading and re-reading, I managed to get it up and running. I have only asked once from the list as I was a little confused with one section of the manual, but generally, I thought it is quite a comprehensive and excellent manual, not like Oracle's which is like a set of Encyclopedias. I have also found this list and the archive of this list to be far more valuable than the manual itself as the problems are real problems. If you really find the manual that confusing, perhaps you should suggest to the MySQL team on how they can improve it to make it easier for others who will follow in your footsteps. - Original Message - From: "Edwin Martinez" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Neff Patrick K" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2001 22:08 Subject: Re: Please read the manual Mr. Samuel, Im new in this field (mysql, linux, etc.), I am a MCSE, and at this time, I try to impulse this software (Mysql, Linux, etc) in Central America, I see many feactures in this software but I need to Know if exist a maillist for dummies as I, mybe in a two months I can give to people like you (MySQL Development Team) a good feed back to make this software the best of the world, that I think is your objetive, please, patience sir. Thanks Edwin Neff Patrick K ha escrito: Maybe it is the lack of coffee this morning talking or maybe it is the fact that I have spent 4 days trying to get mysql up and running on linux(a platform I am unfamiliar with) but I assumes this mailing list would allow me to have contact with other users who have been thru the same issues I have had. Apparently I was wrong. You see I am a newbie too and what turned me on to mysql ,linux and the open source movement was the fact that it seems to focus on the power of people and there combined knowledge. I am not stupid and I can read in fact I have look over this manual about 100 times now the last four evenings. I apologize for wasting anyone's time but before I can become a valid contributor to a group dealing with a specific software I first have to be able to get the thing running. I in fact finally got mysql up and running last night but not one word in your manual helped me do it. So in fact all the reading in the world would have left me sitting in the same position. I am sorry to rant and rave but maybe if some seasoned user on this mailing list (not the developers) would help us newbies then we could all work together to. That is my two cents sorry to waste your time with it. -Original Message- From: Tnu Samuel [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2001 4:58 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Please read the manual Maybe it is my depression and I see everything in black but please read manual before posting questions in this list. Manual covers at least 90% questions asked here. If manual does not cover them, we will put new chapters in it. This is all because what we do in this list can be called FREE support. As much I know, most of our developers are spending 2..4 hours per day just reading all related groups and answering questions "Error 2002: Can't connect via socket /tmp/mysql.sock". Also I wanted to ask everyone who gets revenue from MySQL still buy support contract. While MySQL is free to users there are people behind it who eat, buy books, pay for internet connection get hardware and buy icecream to kids. This is not about home users. There are companies on NASDAQ who use heavily
Re: Please read the manual
Doug Young wrote: If I may add my 0.5c here too, the MySQL manual, like so many of its kind was obviously written by a highly skilled developer(/s) but who, like virtually all of that ilk, lacks the ability to impart knowledge to others. The MySQL manual available at www.mysql.com is terrific. It's not perfect, because nothing is, and because nothing that is meant for general-purpose use can ever be perfect for all situations. However, it's still terrific. a similar situation to that existing with most unix / linux man pages time time again we see experts going on about RTFM, however all those things do is totally confuse newbies. There are two possible assertions that you could have made in your email, and I'm not sure which one you actually did. They are: * The existing MySQL documentation is poor. * The MySQL user community (especially the newbies) would be well-served by parrallel documentation that was delivered in more of a tutorial format. If you mean the latter, then sure, I agree. Hey, why not agree? It's easy to fluff off the job of writing a tutorial into the realm of wishes and other people's work. If you mean the former, then I disagree. There's a difference between newbies being totally confused about (e.g.) some of the finer points of advanced SQL (which is forgivable), and people who are too lazy to read the documentation regarding how to reset a MySQL password they'd forgotten. (This example is my most-hated, most-often-experienced question on this list.) Cheers, Richard - Before posting, please check: http://www.mysql.com/manual.php (the manual) http://lists.mysql.com/ (the list archive) To request this thread, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, e-mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
