Fw: Antwort: mySQL is winning

2001-02-02 Thread Fábio Ottolini

I didn't receive this e-mail back after I sent it...

- Original Message -
From: "Fábio Ottolini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Paul DuBois" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Fowler, J.T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 7:20 PM
Subject: Re: Antwort: mySQL is winning


> One thing that I have learned on the corporate market is that huge
companies
> prefer to pay huge amounts of money than to bet on a product that is new
and
> almost for free. Quality in this case is secondary and what happens behind
> the scenes is what is taken into consideration. An IT Director doesn't
feel
> comfortable to say to a huge enterprise that they are going to migrate to
an
> open source database. Again, quality is not the problem. If something goes
> wrong people will always say: "If I have stayed with Oracle this would
never
> happend!" That's bullshit. We all know that but have to face the facts and
> learn to live with them, learn to dodge'em.
> Of course Oracle is worried about MySQL. They have enough reasons for
that.
> At the moment I'm trying to use MySQL inside a HUGE (really HUGE) company
> and the answers that I receive from the IT Department is something like:
> "We'll be not responsible if anything goes wrong." NOBODY wants to put
their
> faces at the combat front but still I'm trying... Future will show the
truth
> and people who believe in open source and MySQL have to be prepared for
this
> kind of situations. I don't expect my company to forget about their
> agreement with other companies just because the open source comunity says
> MySQL is good. News like NASA using MySQL and some small movements here
and
> there are going to put MySQL against the wall. If I can put MySQL to work
> inside this company and people start to hear about it they are going to
> consider it in the future for big things.
> If MySQL is good, and I truly believe that it is, we are going to hear the
> trumpets of victory very soon. So, if you are a MySQL addicted like I am,
> don't worry. It takes time to prove that something is good but once it's
> done it's just a matter of maintaining the name and the quality of the
> astonishing product that MySQL is today.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Fábio Ottolini
>
> ----- Original Message -
> From: "Paul DuBois" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: "Fowler, J.T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:32 PM
> Subject: Re: Antwort: mySQL is winning
>
>
> > On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:21:15PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> > > On 01.02.2001 14:54:11 Fowler, J.T. wrote:
> > >
> > > > Migration Kit for MySQL to Oracle on Linux Now Available.
> > > >
> > > > Moving just got easier with the new MySQL-to-Oracle Migration
> Workbench-the
> > > > ideal migration software for developers who want to migrate
> open-source
> > > > database on Linux to Oracle on Red Hat Linux 6.2.
> > >
> > > Hmm??  In how far is MySQL winning?  Isn't that a sign that it's
losing?
> I
> > > mean, if this were a Oracle-To-MySQL kit, I would understand you
> >
> >
> > The announcement is an explicit indicator that Oracle has taken notice
of
> > the MySQL world, and felt a need to respond.




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Re: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-02 Thread Vivek Khera

> "RH" == Rolf Hopkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

RH> That also depends on your definition of *PRODUCTION* status.   If you are
RH> going to make a profit using MySQL then you need to purchase a license.

Not any more; MySQL is GPL in the current version.


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Re: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread Jeremy D. Zawodny

On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 11:06:14AM +0800, Rolf Hopkins wrote:
>
> Well, even so, if you are going to make a profit from it, you should
> purchase some sort of support, right?  and it really isn't that
> expensive, either.

I won't argue with that. :-)
-- 
Jeremy D. Zawodny, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Finance
Desk: (408) 328-7878Fax: (408) 530-5454
Cell: (408) 439-9951

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Re: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread Rolf Hopkins

Well, even so, if you are going to make a profit from it, you should
purchase some sort of support, right?  and it really isn't that expensive,
either.

- Original Message -
From: "Jeremy D. Zawodny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rolf Hopkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Brad Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Dickson Alastair T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Christopher Bone"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 10:50
Subject: Re: mySQL IS winning


> On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:11:49AM +0800, Rolf Hopkins wrote:
> >
> > That also depends on your definition of *PRODUCTION* status.  If you
> > are going to make a profit using MySQL then you need to purchase a
> > license.
>
> Not if you use the GPL versions.
> --
> Jeremy D. Zawodny, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Finance
> Desk: (408) 328-7878Fax: (408) 530-5454
> Cell: (408) 439-9951


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Re: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread Billy Harvey

 > If you are going to make a profit using MySQL then you need to
 > purchase a license.

No you don't.

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Re: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread Jeremy D. Zawodny

On Fri, Feb 02, 2001 at 10:11:49AM +0800, Rolf Hopkins wrote:
>
> That also depends on your definition of *PRODUCTION* status.  If you
> are going to make a profit using MySQL then you need to purchase a
> license.

Not if you use the GPL versions.
-- 
Jeremy D. Zawodny, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Technical Yahoo - Yahoo Finance
Desk: (408) 328-7878Fax: (408) 530-5454
Cell: (408) 439-9951

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Re: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread Rolf Hopkins

That also depends on your definition of *PRODUCTION* status.   If you are
going to make a profit using MySQL then you need to purchase a license.

- Original Message -
From: "Brad Christensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Dickson Alastair T" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
"Christopher Bone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 3:35
Subject: RE: mySQL IS winning


> Having worked with Oracle products for several years, their licensing
policy
> is essentially as follows:
>
> Development licenses are generally free, as is indicated below with the
> individual who got his *free* copy of Oracle.
>
> However, as soon as a system moves to *PRODUCTION* status, the database
must
> be licensed, including add-on such as OPS (Oracle Parallel Server) etc...
> If you are running a *PRODUCTION* application on your *free* development
> license, you are in violation of the license agreement.
>
> The following licensing structure covers only the core database, but this
> will probably change with Oracle's introduction of 9i (which is really
only
> version 8.2, which is still new, repackaged with some changes in the
> licensing).
>
> NAMED USER
> This is only allowed if you can *PROVE* that only those named users
> will be able to connect to the database.  Since this doesn't apply to Web
> applications, I'll skip this section.
>
> POWER UNIT LICENSING
> This is the method required for most implementations.
>
> RISC  (such as Sun, HP, Digital, etc...)
> # of CPU's  X  MHZ Rating  X  1.5 (RISC Factor)  X  $100
> INTEL (such as for Linux)
> # of CPU's  X  MHZ Rating  X  $100
>
> Examples:
> SUN Ultra-10 with 1 433-MHZ cpu
> 1  X  433  X  1.5  X  $100 = $64, 950
> SUN 220-R with 2 433-MHZ cpu's
> 2  X  433  X  1.5  X  $100 = $129,900
>
> INTEL Box with 2 PIII 800-MHZ cpu's
> 2  X  800  X  $100 = $160,000
>
> Granted these examples are very basic, and are based on Oracle's current
> *RETAIL* pricing, but this will give you the general idea, and this
doesn't
> include maintenance fees.
>
> These costs may seem exorbitant, but you don't buy a Ferrari to carry you
> two blocks down the street to buy groceries.  Likewise, you don't take a
> free bicycle to race in the Indy 500.  Every cost is justified in the
proper
> application.  MySQL is not the solution for all applications just as using
> Oracle may be over-kill in some applications.
>
> For what it is worth...
>
> Brad L. Christensen
>    Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.center7.com
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: John Cichy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:26 AM
> To: Dickson Alastair T; Christopher Bone
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: mySQL IS winning
>
>
> On Thursday 01 February 2001 11:43, Dickson Alastair T wrote:
>
> > > >But you still have to buy the ORACLE software right?
> >>
> >> Nope. I got my Enterprise Edition Oracle8i free.
> >>
> >> The *support and training* is paid for (ooouch, very expensive),
> >> unlike mysql (free and from "the horses mouth")
> >>
> >> :)
> >>
> >> If you have lots of memory, processing power, time etc...
> >> Download 8i for Linux (Registration Reqd)at:
> >> http://technet.oracle.com/software/products/oracle8i/software_index.htm
>
>
> JOHN CICHY WROTE:
>
> >I'm not sure about this but isn't this a developers version, i.e. free to
> >build your application, but if you want to deploy...
>
> >I was going to check the link you offered, but it asked for a password
and
> >userid.
>
>
> >--
> >Have a great day...
> >John
>
> -
> Before posting, please check:
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>http://lists.mysql.com/   (the list archive)
>
> To request this thread, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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>
> -
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Re: Antwort: mySQL is winning

2001-02-01 Thread Fábio Ottolini

One thing that I have learned on the corporate market is that huge companies
prefer to pay huge amounts of money than to bet on a product that is new and
almost for free. Quality in this case is secondary and what happens behind
the scenes is what is taken into consideration. An IT Director doesn't feel
comfortable to say to a huge enterprise that they are going to migrate to an
open source database. Again, quality is not the problem. If something goes
wrong people will always say: "If I have stayed with Oracle this would never
happend!" That's bullshit. We all know that but have to face the facts and
learn to live with them, learn to dodge'em.
Of course Oracle is worried about MySQL. They have enough reasons for that.
At the moment I'm trying to use MySQL inside a HUGE (really HUGE) company
and the answers that I receive from the IT Department is something like:
"We'll be not responsible if anything goes wrong." NOBODY wants to put their
faces at the combat front but still I'm trying... Future will show the truth
and people who believe in open source and MySQL have to be prepared for this
kind of situations. I don't expect my company to forget about their
agreement with other companies just because the open source comunity says
MySQL is good. News like NASA using MySQL and some small movements here and
there are going to put MySQL against the wall. If I can put MySQL to work
inside this company and people start to hear about it they are going to
consider it in the future for big things.
If MySQL is good, and I truly believe that it is, we are going to hear the
trumpets of victory very soon. So, if you are a MySQL addicted like I am,
don't worry. It takes time to prove that something is good but once it's
done it's just a matter of maintaining the name and the quality of the
astonishing product that MySQL is today.

Best regards,

Fábio Ottolini

- Original Message -
From: "Paul DuBois" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "Fowler, J.T." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 3:32 PM
Subject: Re: Antwort: mySQL is winning


> On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:21:15PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> > On 01.02.2001 14:54:11 Fowler, J.T. wrote:
> >
> > > Migration Kit for MySQL to Oracle on Linux Now Available.
> > >
> > > Moving just got easier with the new MySQL-to-Oracle Migration
Workbench-the
> > > ideal migration software for developers who want to migrate
open-source
> > > database on Linux to Oracle on Red Hat Linux 6.2.
> >
> > Hmm??  In how far is MySQL winning?  Isn't that a sign that it's losing?
I
> > mean, if this were a Oracle-To-MySQL kit, I would understand you
>
>
> The announcement is an explicit indicator that Oracle has taken notice of
> the MySQL world, and felt a need to respond.
>
> -
> Before posting, please check:
>http://www.mysql.com/manual.php   (the manual)
>http://lists.mysql.com/   (the list archive)
>
> To request this thread, e-mail <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To unsubscribe, e-mail
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Trouble unsubscribing? Try: http://lists.mysql.com/php/unsubscribe.php
>
>



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Re: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread John Cichy

On Thursday 01 February 2001 11:43, Dickson Alastair T wrote:

> > >But you still have to buy the ORACLE software right?
>
> Nope. I got my Enterprise Edition Oracle8i free.
>
> The *support and training* is paid for (ooouch, very expensive),
> unlike mysql (free and from "the horses mouth")
>
> :)
>
> If you have lots of memory, processing power, time etc...
> Download 8i for Linux (Registration Reqd)at:
> http://technet.oracle.com/software/products/oracle8i/software_index.htm

I'm not sure about this but isn't this a developers version, i.e. free to 
build your application, but if you want to deploy...

I was going to check the link you offered, but it asked for a password and 
userid.


-- 
Have a great day...
John

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RE: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread Brad Christensen

Having worked with Oracle products for several years, their licensing policy
is essentially as follows:

Development licenses are generally free, as is indicated below with the
individual who got his *free* copy of Oracle.

However, as soon as a system moves to *PRODUCTION* status, the database must
be licensed, including add-on such as OPS (Oracle Parallel Server) etc...
If you are running a *PRODUCTION* application on your *free* development
license, you are in violation of the license agreement.

The following licensing structure covers only the core database, but this
will probably change with Oracle's introduction of 9i (which is really only
version 8.2, which is still new, repackaged with some changes in the
licensing).

NAMED USER
This is only allowed if you can *PROVE* that only those named users
will be able to connect to the database.  Since this doesn't apply to Web
applications, I'll skip this section.

POWER UNIT LICENSING
This is the method required for most implementations.

RISC  (such as Sun, HP, Digital, etc...)
# of CPU's  X  MHZ Rating  X  1.5 (RISC Factor)  X  $100
INTEL (such as for Linux)
# of CPU's  X  MHZ Rating  X  $100

Examples:
SUN Ultra-10 with 1 433-MHZ cpu
1  X  433  X  1.5  X  $100 = $64, 950
SUN 220-R with 2 433-MHZ cpu's
2  X  433  X  1.5  X  $100 = $129,900

INTEL Box with 2 PIII 800-MHZ cpu's
2  X  800  X  $100 = $160,000

Granted these examples are very basic, and are based on Oracle's current
*RETAIL* pricing, but this will give you the general idea, and this doesn't
include maintenance fees.

These costs may seem exorbitant, but you don't buy a Ferrari to carry you
two blocks down the street to buy groceries.  Likewise, you don't take a
free bicycle to race in the Indy 500.  Every cost is justified in the proper
application.  MySQL is not the solution for all applications just as using
Oracle may be over-kill in some applications.

For what it is worth...

Brad L. Christensen
   Email:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   http://www.center7.com
 


-Original Message-
From: John Cichy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 11:26 AM
To: Dickson Alastair T; Christopher Bone
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: mySQL IS winning


On Thursday 01 February 2001 11:43, Dickson Alastair T wrote:

> > >But you still have to buy the ORACLE software right?
>>
>> Nope. I got my Enterprise Edition Oracle8i free.
>>
>> The *support and training* is paid for (ooouch, very expensive),
>> unlike mysql (free and from "the horses mouth")
>>
>> :)
>>
>> If you have lots of memory, processing power, time etc...
>> Download 8i for Linux (Registration Reqd)at:
>> http://technet.oracle.com/software/products/oracle8i/software_index.htm


JOHN CICHY WROTE:

>I'm not sure about this but isn't this a developers version, i.e. free to 
>build your application, but if you want to deploy...

>I was going to check the link you offered, but it asked for a password and 
>userid.


>-- 
>Have a great day...
>John

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RE: mySQL IS winning

2001-02-01 Thread Dickson Alastair T

>But you still have to buy the ORACLE software right?
Nope. I got my Enterprise Edition Oracle8i free.

The *support and training* is paid for (ooouch, very expensive), 
unlike mysql (free and from "the horses mouth") 
:)

If you have lots of memory, processing power, time etc...
Download 8i for Linux (Registration Reqd)at:
http://technet.oracle.com/software/products/oracle8i/software_index.htm




-- 
Alastair Dickson
ICL
===



Re: Antwort: mySQL is winning

2001-02-01 Thread Paul DuBois

On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 04:21:15PM +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On 01.02.2001 14:54:11 Fowler, J.T. wrote:
> 
> > Migration Kit for MySQL to Oracle on Linux Now Available.
> >
> > Moving just got easier with the new MySQL-to-Oracle Migration Workbench-the
> > ideal migration software for developers who want to migrate open-source
> > database on Linux to Oracle on Red Hat Linux 6.2.
> 
> Hmm??  In how far is MySQL winning?  Isn't that a sign that it's losing?  I
> mean, if this were a Oracle-To-MySQL kit, I would understand you


The announcement is an explicit indicator that Oracle has taken notice of
the MySQL world, and felt a need to respond.

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Re: mySQL is winning

2001-02-01 Thread Vivek Khera

> "AS" == Alexander Skwar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

AS> Well, I still don't get it - why should I want to shell out a huge
AS> amount of money?  I mean, your post would fit a lot better, if
AS> this was a Oracle mailinglist

The point, I beleive, is that Oracle finds MySQL such a threat to
their business that they have to put out a migration kit to make it
easy for people to switch to their product.

It shows that the popularity of MySQL is being taken seriously by the
majors.

-- 
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Vivek Khera, Ph.D.Khera Communications, Inc.
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Rockville, MD   +1-240-453-8497
AIM: vivekkhera Y!: vivek_khera   http://www.khera.org/~vivek/

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Antwort: mySQL is winning

2001-02-01 Thread alexander . skwar



On 01.02.2001 14:54:11 Fowler, J.T. wrote:

> Migration Kit for MySQL to Oracle on Linux Now Available.
>
> Moving just got easier with the new MySQL-to-Oracle Migration Workbench-the
> ideal migration software for developers who want to migrate open-source
> database on Linux to Oracle on Red Hat Linux 6.2.

Hmm??  In how far is MySQL winning?  Isn't that a sign that it's losing?  I
mean, if this were a Oracle-To-MySQL kit, I would understand you



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Re: mySQL is winning

2001-02-01 Thread Tim Bunce

On Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 09:17:13AM -0600, Fowler, J.T. wrote:
> My error - I had the [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL in my notepad not the correct
> ORACLE link
>  
> For news about how to "FOR FREE" convert from mySQL to ORACLE:
>  
>  http://www.oracle.com/ip/deploy/database/featurestory/index.html?mysql.html

But the tool is a hopeless waste of space (IMHO).

Tim.

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Re: mySQL is winning

2001-02-01 Thread Alexander Skwar

So sprach Fowler, J.T. am Thu, Feb 01, 2001 at 09:17:13AM -0600:
> My error - I had the [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL in my notepad not the correct
> ORACLE link

Well, I still don't get it - why should I want to shell out a huge amount of
money?  I mean, your post would fit a lot better, if this was a Oracle
mailinglist

Alexander Skwar
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mySQL is winning

2001-02-01 Thread Fowler, J.T.

Copied from webpage at - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Migration Kit for MySQL to Oracle on Linux Now Available. 

Moving just got easier with the new MySQL-to-Oracle Migration Workbench-the
ideal migration software for developers who want to migrate open-source
database on Linux to Oracle on Red Hat Linux 6.2.

Thanks,
J.T.Fowler
512-326-6371 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
























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