Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 12:37, Dewey Smolka wrote: > > Thank you for clarifying this. I don't use MythMusic or MythVideo at > > this time. I do use mythgallery so will need to setup NFS for that. > > > > I am also considering setting up NFS for the recordings directory since > > I have a TB of space on the master backend system. > > > > As I understand this now the NFS for recordings is not required but > > allows one to keep all the recordings on one system. > > Here is a simplified version of how this works: the backend manages > tuners and recordings through MySQL. When a FE connects to a BE to > play live TV or a recording, it streams the picture, meaning the BE > plays it, the FE displays it. When a FE plays a file through MythVideo > or MythMusic, the FE does the playing and the displaying, as the file > is mounted locally as NFS (or just a local directory). > > The recording directory is set up on the BE; The Mythvideo, Music, > Gallery, etc directories are set up on the FEs. > > Mounting your recordings directory as NFS will allow you to access and > manipulate the files over a network, but does not affect how those > files are dealt with in Myth. I imagine that messing around with the > recordings files over NFS could also screw with the MySQL tables, or > at least confuse it when it can't find a file where it should be, but > I don't really know that much about it. > > For example, let's say you've got a bunch of Simpsons episodes that > you've recorded in MythTV. If the directory is shared as NFS, you can > access the directory from a remote machine and play the files locally > without using Myth FE (assuming the local machine can play back the > .nuvs). > > But if you take some Simpsons that came from somewhere else and tried > to copy them into the recordings directory with NFS, they won't show > up in the Play Recordings directory inside of Myth FE, because there's > no MySQL entry for them (at least that's how I understand it). > > Here's the way I've got my rig set up: a combined FE/BE that sits next > to the main TV and stores everything on two 250GB drives (with a 20GB > drive for OS, MythTV and ring buffer). I've also got two remote FEs > which are full systems (meaning they're also used for non-Myth > purposes) but which don't have any Myth storage. Each FE has the BE's > /mnt/media/video (for MythVideo), /mnt/media/music (for MythMusic), > and /mnt/media/photos directories mounted as NFS. > > It's been a while since I set this all up, but I think I made the > recordings directory its own partition, which is not NFS since it's > not necessary. > > The BE will put the recordings wherever you ask it to, but it must be > a single directory. If your TB of storage is on the BE, there's no > need for NFS. If your storage is on another machine, you can use NFS > to have the backend write recordings to a remote volume. But if that > TB of storage is split across different machines, I don't know of any > way to use multiple volumes at the same time to store and playback. > > The only other real advantage I could see to making recordings an NFS > is that you could take the recording out of Myth, edit it or transcode > or whatever on a different machine, and then put it into MythVideo. > > Anyway, hope this helps. I think that helped a lot. Thank you. The master backend has four 300GB drives which I have configured to provide a 1TB /video file system for the recordings. I am in the process of setting up a slave backend which is where my lack of knowledge was an issue. As I currently understand it a slave backend will store shows it records on its own drives unless the master backend video drives are mounted via NFS on the slave backend. Front end systems based on your description will request the show to be displayed and will stream that show from which ever backend has that show. If I do NFS mount the storage from the master backend I suspect those shows recorded by the slave backend will get routed through the salve backend to which ever front end requested such a show. The database that will be used will reside on the master backend which will track all of this. Hopefully that is correct. :) Thanks for the help. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
> Thank you for clarifying this. I don't use MythMusic or MythVideo at > this time. I do use mythgallery so will need to setup NFS for that. > > I am also considering setting up NFS for the recordings directory since > I have a TB of space on the master backend system. > > As I understand this now the NFS for recordings is not required but > allows one to keep all the recordings on one system. Here is a simplified version of how this works: the backend manages tuners and recordings through MySQL. When a FE connects to a BE to play live TV or a recording, it streams the picture, meaning the BE plays it, the FE displays it. When a FE plays a file through MythVideo or MythMusic, the FE does the playing and the displaying, as the file is mounted locally as NFS (or just a local directory). The recording directory is set up on the BE; The Mythvideo, Music, Gallery, etc directories are set up on the FEs. Mounting your recordings directory as NFS will allow you to access and manipulate the files over a network, but does not affect how those files are dealt with in Myth. I imagine that messing around with the recordings files over NFS could also screw with the MySQL tables, or at least confuse it when it can't find a file where it should be, but I don't really know that much about it. For example, let's say you've got a bunch of Simpsons episodes that you've recorded in MythTV. If the directory is shared as NFS, you can access the directory from a remote machine and play the files locally without using Myth FE (assuming the local machine can play back the .nuvs). But if you take some Simpsons that came from somewhere else and tried to copy them into the recordings directory with NFS, they won't show up in the Play Recordings directory inside of Myth FE, because there's no MySQL entry for them (at least that's how I understand it). Here's the way I've got my rig set up: a combined FE/BE that sits next to the main TV and stores everything on two 250GB drives (with a 20GB drive for OS, MythTV and ring buffer). I've also got two remote FEs which are full systems (meaning they're also used for non-Myth purposes) but which don't have any Myth storage. Each FE has the BE's /mnt/media/video (for MythVideo), /mnt/media/music (for MythMusic), and /mnt/media/photos directories mounted as NFS. It's been a while since I set this all up, but I think I made the recordings directory its own partition, which is not NFS since it's not necessary. The BE will put the recordings wherever you ask it to, but it must be a single directory. If your TB of storage is on the BE, there's no need for NFS. If your storage is on another machine, you can use NFS to have the backend write recordings to a remote volume. But if that TB of storage is split across different machines, I don't know of any way to use multiple volumes at the same time to store and playback. The only other real advantage I could see to making recordings an NFS is that you could take the recording out of Myth, edit it or transcode or whatever on a different machine, and then put it into MythVideo. Anyway, hope this helps. Good luck ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 10:47, Dewey Smolka wrote: > On 9/16/05, Kevin Kuphal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Scot L. Harris wrote: > > > > >I suspect mythgallery requires nfs mount of the picture directory. > > > > > > > > To answer this question, mythgallery (which runs with mythfrontend) > > needs access to the picture directory via NFS or SAMBA or whatever other > > means you have to mount the disk. > > > > Kevin > > > The same is true for MythMusic and MythVideo. Recordings are streamed > using a built-in protocol, but content from outside of Myth needs to > be mounted on an NFS share (or Samba). Thank you for clarifying this. I don't use MythMusic or MythVideo at this time. I do use mythgallery so will need to setup NFS for that. I am also considering setting up NFS for the recordings directory since I have a TB of space on the master backend system. As I understand this now the NFS for recordings is not required but allows one to keep all the recordings on one system. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
On 9/16/05, Kevin Kuphal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Scot L. Harris wrote: > > >I suspect mythgallery requires nfs mount of the picture directory. > > > > > To answer this question, mythgallery (which runs with mythfrontend) > needs access to the picture directory via NFS or SAMBA or whatever other > means you have to mount the disk. > > Kevin The same is true for MythMusic and MythVideo. Recordings are streamed using a built-in protocol, but content from outside of Myth needs to be mounted on an NFS share (or Samba). ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
Scot L. Harris wrote: I suspect mythgallery requires nfs mount of the picture directory. To answer this question, mythgallery (which runs with mythfrontend) needs access to the picture directory via NFS or SAMBA or whatever other means you have to mount the disk. Kevin ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
Robert Kulagowski wrote: That is great news. So each backend system does its own auto deletion calculations based on space available in the local /video file system? Don't know; have enough space that I don't need to auto-delete. I believe the answer is yes. However, the disk that fills up may not have the oldest files so it's a bit unjust. So which is the preferred setup? NFS or local storage on slave backends? Personal choice. I use NFS because my masterbackend has all the drives; my slaves are diskless backends / frontends. And I use local disks to reduce network traffic and latency and I don't want to spoil recordings if there are network interuptions. Any calculations on how many streams a 100Mb LAN connection can support? Lots, most likely. Certainly on the order of the number of units you'd find in a typical home. Depends on the bitrate of the content. The easiest way to calculate throughput is that 1MB/sec is 3600MB or 3.6GB/hr. My Default profile recordings are 1.7GB/hr so ~1/2MB/sec. 7GB/hr HDTV would be ~2MB/sec. 100Mb can carry on the order of 10MB. -- bjm ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
> That is great news. So each backend system does its own auto deletion > calculations based on space available in the local /video file system? Don't know; have enough space that I don't need to auto-delete. > So which is the preferred setup? NFS or local storage on slave > backends? Personal choice. I use NFS because my masterbackend has all the drives; my slaves are diskless backends / frontends. > Any calculations on how many streams a 100Mb LAN connection > can support? Lots, most likely. Certainly on the order of the number of units you'd find in a typical home. Depends on the bitrate of the content. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 23:00, Robert Kulagowski wrote: > > What I am not sure about is if I need to setup nfs to mount the /video > > from the master on the slave system. And if I don't does the slave > > backend have a way to save the recorded files to the /video file system > > on the master? > > You don't have to use NFS - the slave can store the captured files > locally. And when a frontend requests to view that program the slave > will stream the file to the client. > > The reason that people use NFS is so that if the slave isn't available > you can still watch the content, because the master backend will have > the file. That's what the masterbackend override toggle does: if the > masterbackend can stream the file, it will. That is great news. So each backend system does its own auto deletion calculations based on space available in the local /video file system? So which is the preferred setup? NFS or local storage on slave backends? Any calculations on how many streams a 100Mb LAN connection can support? Thanks for explaining this. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
> What I am not sure about is if I need to setup nfs to mount the /video > from the master on the slave system. And if I don't does the slave > backend have a way to save the recorded files to the /video file system > on the master? You don't have to use NFS - the slave can store the captured files locally. And when a frontend requests to view that program the slave will stream the file to the client. The reason that people use NFS is so that if the slave isn't available you can still watch the content, because the master backend will have the file. That's what the masterbackend override toggle does: if the masterbackend can stream the file, it will. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 21:33, Michael T. Dean wrote: > W.Kenworthy wrote: > > >Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and > >mythbackend? Where are the files stored, which has the tv cards, which > >has the database (backend) and so on. This seems to be missing from the > >website docs. > > > > > The backend has capture cards. The frontend plays back recordings and > executes the plugins (MythVideo, MythMusic, MythGame, MythWeather, > MythGallery, MythNews, MythBrowser, etc.). > > Files can be stored on any network-accessible filesystem. Database can > be on any network-accessible host. In other words, the filesystem and > database are not "a part" of Myth. The same holds true for Apache--if > using MythWeb, it can be hosted on any web server with network access to > the database and the backend. > > All of these can be on the same physical machine or can be spread out > across as many different machines as you have to spare... In other > words, there's no requirement for a particular configuration (which is > why it's not really documented--too many variations possible). Can you explain how a slave backend/front end system works with a master backend/front end system? Setting this up for the first time this weekend and am not sure I understand how this will work. If I understand the install process correctly I set up the slave backend/front end system just like the master backend/front end except I don't run mythfilldatabase and configure the slave to point to the backend system. What I am not sure about is if I need to setup nfs to mount the /video from the master on the slave system. And if I don't does the slave backend have a way to save the recorded files to the /video file system on the master? I suspect mythgallery requires nfs mount of the picture directory. Any other pointers for such a setup? ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
W.Kenworthy wrote: Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend? Where are the files stored, which has the tv cards, which has the database (backend) and so on. This seems to be missing from the website docs. The backend has capture cards. The frontend plays back recordings and executes the plugins (MythVideo, MythMusic, MythGame, MythWeather, MythGallery, MythNews, MythBrowser, etc.). Files can be stored on any network-accessible filesystem. Database can be on any network-accessible host. In other words, the filesystem and database are not "a part" of Myth. The same holds true for Apache--if using MythWeb, it can be hosted on any web server with network access to the database and the backend. All of these can be on the same physical machine or can be spread out across as many different machines as you have to spare... In other words, there's no requirement for a particular configuration (which is why it's not really documented--too many variations possible). Mike ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
I don't run them seperately, but I think the tuners are with the backend, the recorded files can be stored where ever - I would store them on the backend, probably. Database doesn't have to be on either one, also. You can specify. It's pretty open to whatever you'd like to do. Paul On 9/15/05, W.Kenworthy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend andmythbackend? Where are the files stored, which has the tv cards, whichhas the database (backend) and so on. This seems to be missing from the website docs.BillK___mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend?
Are there any docs that describe the split between mythfrontend and mythbackend? Where are the files stored, which has the tv cards, which has the database (backend) and so on. This seems to be missing from the website docs. BillK ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
