Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:03:28AM -0600, Andrew Close wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:43:50 +, Simon Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > install - issues installing the software > > announce - annoucement of new releases > > bugs - posting of bugs/fixes > > hardware - issues with hardware > > discuss - general discussion/fluff > > software - issues running the software > > > > comments please > > instead of creating multiple lists maybe it could be requested of > posters to tag the subject of their email with the above tags. ie, > - compile issue with current CVS... or - when > will we see drivers for PVR-500? ;) OR, to non-Myth specific lists. Like the IVTV list for PVR-x50 problems, which usually aren't MythTV specific. And linux-dvb for DVB driver problems, which again aren't MythTV-specific. And LIRC lists, ALSA lists etc. Lots of the discussion isn't Myth-specific at all. Also, encourage better use of the list archives - many questions here have been asked time and time again. Hamish -- Hamish Moffatt VK3SB <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: Are 'dev' and 'users' mailing lists sufficient? (was Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend)
Getting users to preface the subject would be next to impossible. I would definitely like a read only announce list. Would be great to get an email as soon as the latest version is out. I'm always in favor of overwriting my working setup for the latest and greatest! :) On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 10:39:25 -0600, Chris Delis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:03:28AM -0600, Andrew Close wrote: > > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:43:50 +, Simon Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > we have two mailing lists > > > > > > dev and users > > > > > > maybe it is time to go for some finer granularity > > > > > > install - issues installing the software > > > announce - annoucement of new releases > > > bugs - posting of bugs/fixes > > > hardware - issues with hardware > > > discuss - general discussion/fluff > > > software - issues running the software > > > > > > comments please > > > > instead of creating multiple lists maybe it could be requested of > > posters to tag the subject of their email with the above tags. ie, > > - compile issue with current CVS... or - when > > will we see drivers for PVR-500? ;) > > Or, perhaps just ask users to be a little bit descriptive in their > subject headings? :-) > > --Chris > > > > > then users of the list could just filter based on the subject tags. > > it wouldn't be perfect, but it wouldn't require everyone to subscribe > > to multiple lists or have to deal with cross-list posts as much. > > > > just my $.02 > > :) > > > > > > 9 GMail Invites available > > Email me OFF-list only... > > > ___ > > mythtv-users mailing list > > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 03:43:50PM +, Simon Kenyon wrote: > we have two mailing lists > > dev and users > > maybe it is time to go for some finer granularity > > install - issues installing the software > announce - annoucement of new releases > bugs - posting of bugs/fixes > hardware - issues with hardware > discuss - general discussion/fluff > software - issues running the software > > comments please Some suggest people just tag their posts -- alas, that doesn't have a history or working well in lists I have been on. Even splits don't have a great history. This may be too many divisions. However, to me one desirable split is between "platform" issues and "Mythtv" issues. I would say that the majority of traffic on this list is actually platform issues generated by people trying to bring up MythTV -- hardware, drivers, what to buy, linux configuration and so on. These issues tend to come fast and furious when creating a system, and diminish once the system is running. The other list would be for the MythTV core technologies, Myth itself, and perhaps some of the platform items that are largely only used because of myth (perhaps lirc, datadirect) Another way to make this split that is not as clear but might be clearer for users would be "Initial build" vs. "operating". This is going to amount to the same division, though the operating list would now officially discuss platform issues people encountered after running for a while. However, you need to set it up so that people who can answer new questions still read the initial build list ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Are 'dev' and 'users' mailing lists sufficient? (was Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend)
On Tue, Jan 11, 2005 at 10:03:28AM -0600, Andrew Close wrote: > On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:43:50 +, Simon Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > we have two mailing lists > > > > dev and users > > > > maybe it is time to go for some finer granularity > > > > install - issues installing the software > > announce - annoucement of new releases > > bugs - posting of bugs/fixes > > hardware - issues with hardware > > discuss - general discussion/fluff > > software - issues running the software > > > > comments please > > instead of creating multiple lists maybe it could be requested of > posters to tag the subject of their email with the above tags. ie, > - compile issue with current CVS... or - when > will we see drivers for PVR-500? ;) Or, perhaps just ask users to be a little bit descriptive in their subject headings? :-) --Chris > > then users of the list could just filter based on the subject tags. > it wouldn't be perfect, but it wouldn't require everyone to subscribe > to multiple lists or have to deal with cross-list posts as much. > > just my $.02 > :) > > > 9 GMail Invites available > Email me OFF-list only... > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
On Tue, 11 Jan 2005 15:43:50 +, Simon Kenyon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > we have two mailing lists > > dev and users > > maybe it is time to go for some finer granularity > > install - issues installing the software > announce - annoucement of new releases > bugs - posting of bugs/fixes > hardware - issues with hardware > discuss - general discussion/fluff > software - issues running the software > > comments please instead of creating multiple lists maybe it could be requested of posters to tag the subject of their email with the above tags. ie, - compile issue with current CVS... or - when will we see drivers for PVR-500? ;) then users of the list could just filter based on the subject tags. it wouldn't be perfect, but it wouldn't require everyone to subscribe to multiple lists or have to deal with cross-list posts as much. just my $.02 :) 9 GMail Invites available Email me OFF-list only... ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
we have two mailing lists dev and users maybe it is time to go for some finer granularity install - issues installing the software announce - annoucement of new releases bugs - posting of bugs/fixes hardware - issues with hardware discuss - general discussion/fluff software - issues running the software comments please -- simon ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
Obviously there is some history here, but I wonder if some of the flaming that goes on in the boards like this is not a hinderance to MythTV and Linux in general. A post like that (going both ways) makes someone almost fearful of posting anything. I have to agree with Brad on one part the SysAdmin of a linux sstem does take more time than I'd like. It seems to be getting better, but it is still a difficult land to master. Flame me if you like, John Williams > > Sorry you feel that way. > > No one here owes you anything. If you are alone in believing > that you have a brilliant idea, it's up to you to work it out. > I know that myth does the things I want it to do, does things > that dozens of other people needed and I'm pretty sure it does > what Isaac needs too. No one here is taking orders from you or > anyone else. > > I also am sorry that you feel we aren't doing a lot to support MythTV > > I've never seen Isaac say anything of the sort. I have seen > you use this technique on this list before and it is childish > and uncalled for. 'Maybe it's just me but personally, I'm opposed > to your idea that we should all club baby seals. I think everyone > on this list would be appalled by your support for this senseless > mutilation.' > > > and open source digital TV in general. Our digital TV liberation front > > page (www.eff.org/broadcastflag) with associated articles on building > > MythTV have brought it a fair bit of attention, I hope. If there is > > more we can do, let us know. > > First of all, lets establish if you are here as a representative > of EFF. If so, I think there are some serious issues with how > EFF intends to interface with this project but I don't actually > believe that you are their appointed goodwill ambassador. > > If EFF went looking for an open source project that supports > the pcHDTV, they would naturally find that of the hundreds > (literally hundreds) of attempts to start a DVR project that > few got off the ground and none come close to MythTV as a > direct result of Isaac's skills, approach and temperament. > > If you want to believe that we should be beholden to you because > you happen to be associated with someone who wrote an article > that merely mentioned the work that Isaac and others have done > over the past nearly three years, you are sadly mistaken. > > I don't give a rats ass if a single person uses MythTV as a > result of seeing it mentioned at EFF or in a magazine or > where ever. I want to have the best possible DVR for myself > and if others find it useful, that's fine. Even better if > they can improve upon it. > > If EFF and it's members want to make contributions to this > project that meet their agenda, that's fine. However, if all > you have to offer is the fanciful, impractical suggestions > you've made in the past, unfounded alarmist proclamations > posted to our users, endless debate apparently for sport, > and now cheap shots at the lead developer? No thank you. > > Have I not made an effort to try to respond to your questions > with honest and informed answers about our software? I think > you've worn out your welcome there. I had done so with the > expectation that you intended to contribute. I was unaware > that you were incapable of so much as installing a complier > over the course of several weeks. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
Brad Templeton wrote: On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:14:10AM -0500, Isaac Richards wrote: On Sunday 09 January 2005 11:57 pm, Brad Templeton wrote: Right now mythtv is not mature enough to give to people who are not sophisticated computer users. They need help administering it from somebody else, and that's why this is a useful feature. Don't see you doing terribly much to help with that. Sorry you feel that way. No one here owes you anything. If you are alone in believing that you have a brilliant idea, it's up to you to work it out. I know that myth does the things I want it to do, does things that dozens of other people needed and I'm pretty sure it does what Isaac needs too. No one here is taking orders from you or anyone else. As for the issue at hand, mythfrontend absolutely can be run on a host remote to the master backend and frontends on a host can potentially connect to any master anywhere. If you elect to use ssh and a different port number, mysql (www.mysql.com) has a config file to set the port number that their client libraries use. If you have a better idea, diff -u spaces no tabs. I also am sorry that you feel we aren't doing a lot to support MythTV I've never seen Isaac say anything of the sort. I have seen you use this technique on this list before and it is childish and uncalled for. 'Maybe it's just me but personally, I'm opposed to your idea that we should all club baby seals. I think everyone on this list would be appalled by your support for this senseless mutilation.' and open source digital TV in general. Our digital TV liberation front page (www.eff.org/broadcastflag) with associated articles on building MythTV have brought it a fair bit of attention, I hope. If there is more we can do, let us know. First of all, lets establish if you are here as a representative of EFF. If so, I think there are some serious issues with how EFF intends to interface with this project but I don't actually believe that you are their appointed goodwill ambassador. If EFF went looking for an open source project that supports the pcHDTV, they would naturally find that of the hundreds (literally hundreds) of attempts to start a DVR project that few got off the ground and none come close to MythTV as a direct result of Isaac's skills, approach and temperament. If you want to believe that we should be beholden to you because you happen to be associated with someone who wrote an article that merely mentioned the work that Isaac and others have done over the past nearly three years, you are sadly mistaken. I don't give a rats ass if a single person uses MythTV as a result of seeing it mentioned at EFF or in a magazine or where ever. I want to have the best possible DVR for myself and if others find it useful, that's fine. Even better if they can improve upon it. If EFF and it's members want to make contributions to this project that meet their agenda, that's fine. However, if all you have to offer is the fanciful, impractical suggestions you've made in the past, unfounded alarmist proclamations posted to our users, endless debate apparently for sport, and now cheap shots at the lead developer? No thank you. Have I not made an effort to try to respond to your questions with honest and informed answers about our software? I think you've worn out your welcome there. I had done so with the expectation that you intended to contribute. I was unaware that you were incapable of so much as installing a complier over the course of several weeks. -- bjm ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
You can consider VNC, it can be tunneled via SSH, so you will see the screen the way it looks on the remote PC. Strangely, it works much faster than X. Seems like X protocol is very bad for slow links. - Original Message - From: Brad Templeton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Saturday, January 8, 2005 5:11 pm Subject: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend > > Just a wishlist feature. After giving a mythtv box to family, I > want to be able to maintain it. I can make a tunnel and run mythweb, > or even phpmyadmin. > > But I don't want to run mythfrontend remotely for a couple of reasons. > A big x application can be slow over a remote link, and since my > screenis the same size, it will do the annoying resizing of all > the graphics > once for me and then once for them, unless I set my screen to their > exact size. > > A couple of options that might make this nice: > >a) Command line options on mythfrontend to say which backend > to talk > to, or perhaps more simply, which mysql.txt file to use to > say which > SQL server & DB to talk to for that info. Needs to have > the ability to set the port for the mysql server because > the way > tunnel over ssh works is via port forwarding a different > port to > the sql server on the remote machine. > >I could do a script to swap in different mysql.txt files but >the port issue is another matter. > >b) If I do run it remotely over X, have the cache of sizes be done > once per screen size, so temporarily running it over X doesn't > reset things. Or if not once per screen size, once per X > server. ie. have one cache for $DISPLAY = ":0.0" and another > one for > my remote X server. > ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
On Mon, Jan 10, 2005 at 12:14:10AM -0500, Isaac Richards wrote: > On Sunday 09 January 2005 11:57 pm, Brad Templeton wrote: > > Right now mythtv is not mature enough to give to people who are > > not sophisticated computer users. They need help administering it > > from somebody else, and that's why this is a useful feature. > > Don't see you doing terribly much to help with that. Sorry you feel that way. Myself, I'm still working on getting the environment stable as it is before fixing bugs. It's involved a lot of other sysadmin, upgrading systems. Most of the problems are not actually MythTV's. The statement about Mythtv's maturity is not directed as an insult -- it is marked with a version number of 0.16 after all, which generally means that's exactly what the developers are declaring. It's also much more than a statement about MythTV. As noted, most of the problems people have encountered with MythTV are actually problems with trying to make Linux itself work in less tested areas, with new video cards and capture cards and young and unstable drivers, with remote controls, and DVI output and untested screen resolutions and much more. I also am sorry that you feel we aren't doing a lot to support MythTV and open source digital TV in general. Our digital TV liberation front page (www.eff.org/broadcastflag) with associated articles on building MythTV have brought it a fair bit of attention, I hope. If there is more we can do, let us know. Or if you simply refer to me personally not sending in my own share of patches, I agree, I have not. And it's not that I don't understand the issues of being the developer and how to view people who mostly report bugs and ask for features rather than coding them. However, that doesn't mean it's not appropriate for people to do that, it just adjusts the priority that should be expected for them. > Override the hostname in the mysql.txt file, and you wouldn't have that > problem. Multiple frontends doesn't really hurt anything, either. > > I'd accept a patch to allow configuring the mysql port, too. Won't spend > time > on it myself, though. Not expecting it. And I will see if I can put together such a patch, once I manage to get the CVS myth to compile. That it won't compile is not your fault, it's a strange bug in the Fedora upgrade process that has left my system in a state where certain programs won't link, and Myth is one of them. It compiles on a virgin system (but not the one I code on) so it's my problem to eventually piece together. Linux sysadmin takes up way to much of all of our time, I fear. Though there are other patches I would also put in line way ahead of this one, which was more of an observation than anything. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
On Sunday 09 January 2005 11:57 pm, Brad Templeton wrote: > Right now mythtv is not mature enough to give to people who are > not sophisticated computer users. They need help administering it > from somebody else, and that's why this is a useful feature. Don't see you doing terribly much to help with that. > As noted, there is another way to do it, which is to create an X tunnel > and run mythfrontend on their machine. However, that will alter the > cached window size unless you can be sure you have the same one, and > might have other problems if the frontend is already running. (Haven't > tested what happens in that situation.) Override the hostname in the mysql.txt file, and you wouldn't have that problem. Multiple frontends doesn't really hurt anything, either. I'd accept a patch to allow configuring the mysql port, too. Won't spend time on it myself, though. Isaac ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
On Sun, Jan 09, 2005 at 08:26:53PM -0800, Bruce Markey wrote: > >Remember that when connecting to a remote database over an ssh tunnel, > >you will not be on port 3306. Well, not if that port is already in > >use on your own system, which it is. > > Not sure what you mean. A listener on foo:3306 is different > than one on bar:3306. How would you connect to another web > server over an ssh tunnel if you were using port 80 for a > web server on your own host? SSH tunnels work as follows. On MY machine, there is an sql server listening on 3306. It is my own mythtv's mysql server. On the far away machine, there is also an sql server on that port, it is the mythtv mysql server for the myth box I gave my brother that i want to configure. However, this box does not listen on port 3306 out to the open internet, for security reasons, just locally. I create an ssh tunnel. This forwards a port on my machine, say 3300, to port 3306 on the remote machine. If I connect to port 3300 on my local host, I am talking to the mysql server of the system I want to administer. Likewise to do this I must forward ports for the remote port 80 (for mythweb) and would like to forward a port to the backend as well, though most config doesn't generally require talking to it. And it wouldn't work well because mythfrontend asks the database where the backend is and what port to talk to it on, and that would return local addresses on the remote network, which are no good to me. I could create an entire vpn, but that's overkill and has other troubles. Changing the client entry in my.cnf (if mythfrontend listens to that) would not be good, because all clients would suddenly be talking to the remote server, not what I want at all. Right now mythtv is not mature enough to give to people who are not sophisticated computer users. They need help administering it from somebody else, and that's why this is a useful feature. As noted, there is another way to do it, which is to create an X tunnel and run mythfrontend on their machine. However, that will alter the cached window size unless you can be sure you have the same one, and might have other problems if the frontend is already running. (Haven't tested what happens in that situation.) ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
Brad Templeton wrote: Right, but how do you get it to connect to the database server on other than port 3306? Is there an undocumented field in mysql.txt to set that? Not the application's business. That is the mysql server and client libraries. The my.cnf files (usually /etc/mysql/my.cnf ) has a [client] section and a [mysqld] section. These would need to agree at both ends. Remember that when connecting to a remote database over an ssh tunnel, you will not be on port 3306. Well, not if that port is already in use on your own system, which it is. Not sure what you mean. A listener on foo:3306 is different than one on bar:3306. How would you connect to another web server over an ssh tunnel if you were using port 80 for a web server on your own host? -- bjm ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
On Sun, Jan 09, 2005 at 01:39:20PM -0800, Bruce Markey wrote: > >a) Command line options on mythfrontend to say which backend to talk > > to, or perhaps more simply, which mysql.txt file to use to say which > > The files is searched for in . , $HOME/.mythtv/ then > /usr/local/share/mythtv or where ever it was installed. I have > several test DBs on different machines so I've created per > hostname directories in my home dir, each with a mysql.txt for > that host. I cd into the directory then run any executable > (usually mythbackend, mythfrontend or mythfilldatabase). > "mythconverg" is a variable that only exists in mysql.txt so > you can even have a different database name in the same mysql > server instance then a dir with the mysql.txt to connect to > that DB. Right, but how do you get it to connect to the database server on other than port 3306? Is there an undocumented field in mysql.txt to set that? Remember that when connecting to a remote database over an ssh tunnel, you will not be on port 3306. Well, not if that port is already in use on your own system, which it is. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
Brad Templeton wrote: Just a wishlist feature. After giving a mythtv box to family, I want to be able to maintain it. I can make a tunnel and run mythweb, or even phpmyadmin. But I don't want to run mythfrontend remotely for a couple of reasons. A big x application can be slow over a remote link, and since my screen Why would you want to do that? The frontend can be run locally and just needs to know which DB to connect to through mysql.txt. Assuming you can resolve hostname and have enough bandwidth to get string lists even if you can't play video, you can set per host preferences just like any local frontend. is the same size, it will do the annoying resizing of all the graphics once for me and then once for them, unless I set my screen to their exact size. Just use the same theme and size as your local system for your frontend prefs when connected to their db. Besides. when you run a local process, mythfrontend gets the graphics for the theme from the local path (/usr/local/share/mythtv/themes/) and not over the net. A couple of options that might make this nice: a) Command line options on mythfrontend to say which backend to talk to, or perhaps more simply, which mysql.txt file to use to say which The files is searched for in . , $HOME/.mythtv/ then /usr/local/share/mythtv or where ever it was installed. I have several test DBs on different machines so I've created per hostname directories in my home dir, each with a mysql.txt for that host. I cd into the directory then run any executable (usually mythbackend, mythfrontend or mythfilldatabase). "mythconverg" is a variable that only exists in mysql.txt so you can even have a different database name in the same mysql server instance then a dir with the mysql.txt to connect to that DB. -- bjm ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
[mythtv-users] Talking to more than one backend
Just a wishlist feature. After giving a mythtv box to family, I want to be able to maintain it. I can make a tunnel and run mythweb, or even phpmyadmin. But I don't want to run mythfrontend remotely for a couple of reasons. A big x application can be slow over a remote link, and since my screen is the same size, it will do the annoying resizing of all the graphics once for me and then once for them, unless I set my screen to their exact size. A couple of options that might make this nice: a) Command line options on mythfrontend to say which backend to talk to, or perhaps more simply, which mysql.txt file to use to say which SQL server & DB to talk to for that info. Needs to have the ability to set the port for the mysql server because the way tunnel over ssh works is via port forwarding a different port to the sql server on the remote machine. I could do a script to swap in different mysql.txt files but the port issue is another matter. b) If I do run it remotely over X, have the cache of sizes be done once per screen size, so temporarily running it over X doesn't reset things. Or if not once per screen size, once per X server. ie. have one cache for $DISPLAY = ":0.0" and another one for my remote X server. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
