Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/21/05, Michael T. Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Mercury Morris wrote: Going back over the logs one more time, I found an event that occurred three seconds before the out-of-sync discontinuity in the Charlie Rose program.That event is the AutoExpire of the oldest Letterman show.The size?Sixteen gigabytes - 16GB !That would do it...:)Sounds like time for another drive (and,possibly, another filesystem)...Another drive, another filesystem... perhaps there is a better solution. Just as mythfilldatabase can be scheduled, I would prefer to see a similar option for AutoExpire. Two ideas come to mind, but I'm sure there are many others. One choice could be to add an option to mythtv-setup allowing a window for looking through the recordings and cleaning out the too-many-episodes candidates. Another choice could be that when the system determines it is idle (and about to shutdown), look through the recordings and clean out the old recordings. (To me, this is like having the office cleaning crew come in and prepare the work area for the next workday.) Depending on the specific filesystem to instantaneously erase what the recording process took half, one, two hours or more to create, seems to be misplacing the responsibility for cleanup. As for the specific test of avoiding the discontinuity caused by AutoExpire, the test was successful. That is, before recording Letterman and Charlie Rose last night, I manually deleted just one Letterman show. And scanning the Charlie Rose recording all the way to the end showed no glitches at all. It's only a single test, but that's enough for me to believe that AutoExpire of a huge recording during the recording made by the PVR-350 causes an out-of sync problem. (I'm referring only to my system here.) Although I didn't mention it before, there is a similar discontinuity in the recording of Letterman at exactly the same time as in Charlie Rose. But, the audio and video remain in sync. A few seconds of Letterman at the point of the IOBOUND are just lost. For now, I'll either manually delete old recordings, or change the schedule to minimize the problem (if that's possible). Eventually, I'd like to make a formal feature request, probably asking for an option similar to the mythfilldatabase scheduling option. -- MM ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/18/05, Paul Pick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be interested to know if anyone else has observed the out-of-sync problem while watching Charlie Rose.I record Charlie Rose (via PVR-350 ivtv stable) from WMED (Maine)without issues. And I've recorded it off KQED (SF) in HD (HD-3000) and SD (WinTV), and now WNET (NY) all without issue. I do find that occasionally any of my recordings gets out of sync, but pausing and restarting seems to bring it back together. --WendyPublic television fans unite!-- Wendy Seltzerhttp://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/ http://www.chillingeffects.org/ ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
Also, check the record profile you are using to record charlie, is it the same as the one you use for the other shows ? On 9/20/05, Wendy Seltzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/18/05, Paul Pick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I would be interested to know if anyone else has observed the out-of-sync problem while watching Charlie Rose.I record Charlie Rose (via PVR-350 ivtv stable) from WMED (Maine)without issues. And I've recorded it off KQED (SF) in HD (HD-3000) and SD (WinTV), and now WNET (NY) all without issue. I do find that occasionally any of my recordings gets out of sync, but pausing and restarting seems to bring it back together. --WendyPublic television fans unite!-- Wendy Seltzer http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/http://www.chillingeffects.org/ ___ mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/19/05, Michael T. Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could this be a problem with your system (instead of a problem withMyth) that others are seeing where running mythfilldatabase (or wget ofany kind) while recording causes an IOBOUND situation that preventsinformation from being written properly and causes an A/V sync offset? In other words, does Charlie Rose happen to record around the time yourmythfilldatabase runs?http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/150176 Yes Mike ! In the mythbackend.log, there are IOBOUND entries that correspond in time exactly! to the discontinuities in the Charlie Rose show. But here's the thing: I had already suspected mythfilldatabase because it had been running within the Charlie Rose hour. So, I changed the window for mythfilldatabase to run outside of that hour - problem still occurred. So, mythfilldatabase is not the cause, BUT the system is recording Letterman (in HDTV) from an HD3000 card at the same time. I guess that the simultaneous recordings are too much for the I/O system to handle - a bit of a surprise to me. But now, thanks to you pointing me to the logs, I can set up the recording schedules so that only one recording takes place at a time. (Of course, I feel that I should have looked in the logs without having to be told to.) One more observation, about a specific time: Last night's out-of-sync break occurred at 36:19 into the Charlie Rose show. That's within the first two minutes of Letterman. Maybe there is extra overhead at the start of a recording? Anyway, Thanks Mike, for the heads-up to look in the logs. It's quite likely that I can avoid the problem, at least for the near-term. -- MM ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/20/05, Mercury Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/19/05, Michael T. Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could this be a problem with your system (instead of a problem with Myth) that others are seeing where running mythfilldatabase (or wget of any kind) while recording causes an IOBOUND situation that prevents information from being written properly and causes an A/V sync offset? In other words, does Charlie Rose happen to record around the time your mythfilldatabase runs? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/150176 Yes Mike ! In the mythbackend.log, there are IOBOUND entries that correspond in time exactly! to the discontinuities in the Charlie Rose show. But here's the thing: I had already suspected mythfilldatabase because it had been running within the Charlie Rose hour. So, I changed the window for mythfilldatabase to run outside of that hour - problem still occurred. Did you completely restart the backend mysql processes after doing this? Maybe even reboot to be sure? So, mythfilldatabase is not the cause, BUT the system is recording Letterman (in HDTV) from an HD3000 card at the same time. I guess that the simultaneous recordings are too much for the I/O system to handle - a bit of a surprise to me. Not likely unless you have no DMA on your hard drives or the data is traversing the network. My backend storage is not on my backend server. I never see problems like this but I don't record HD either. None the less that should be less than 5MB/S which even a non-DMA hard drive might keep up with... But now, thanks to you pointing me to the logs, I can set up the recording schedules so that only one recording takes place at a time. (Of course, I feel that I should have looked in the logs without having to be told to.) One more observation, about a specific time: Last night's out-of-sync break occurred at 36:19 into the Charlie Rose show. That's within the first two minutes of Letterman. Maybe there is extra overhead at the start of a recording? Possibly. Cheers, Mark ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/20/05, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/20/05, Mercury Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/19/05, Michael T. Dean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Could this be a problem with your system (instead of a problem with Myth) that others are seeing where running mythfilldatabase (or wget of any kind) while recording causes an IOBOUND situation that prevents information from being written properly and causes an A/V sync offset? In other words, does Charlie Rose happen to record around the time your mythfilldatabase runs? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/150176Yes Mike !In the mythbackend.log, there are IOBOUND entries that correspond in time exactly! to the discontinuities in the Charlie Rose show.But here's the thing:I had already suspected mythfilldatabase becauseit had been running within the Charlie Rose hour. So, I changed the window for mythfilldatabase to run outside of that hour - problem stilloccurred.Did you completely restart the backend mysql processes after doingthis? Maybe even reboot to be sure? Yes. After changing the mythfilldatabase window, I waited until two days had passed. During those two days, the system did its normal shutdown-and-wakeup thing. That is, it shutdown the computer and re-booted at the times when programs were scheduled to be recorded. So, mythfilldatabase is not the cause, BUT the system is recordingLetterman (in HDTV) from an HD3000 card at the same time. I guess that the simultaneous recordings are too much for the I/Osystem to handle - a bit of a surprise to me.Not likely unless you have no DMA on your hard drives or the data istraversing the network. My backend storage is not on my backend server. I never see problems like this but I don't record HD either.None the less that should be less than 5MB/S which even a non-DMA harddrive might keep up with... Yeah, that's what I thought ! How could the I/O system of newly-built computer be unable to keep up with only two write-to-disk tasks. I've watched the disk-activity light (not a good measure of load, I know), and it blinks slowly. It's nothing like when the system is running updatedb or makewhatis. But now, thanks to you pointing me to the logs, I can set up the recording schedules so that only one recording takes place at a time.(Of course, I feel that I should have looked in the logs without havingto be told to.)One more observation, about a specific time:Last night's out-of-sync break occurred at 36:19 into the Charlie Rose show.That's within thefirst two minutes of Letterman.Maybe there is extra overhead at the startof a recording?Possibly. If there is a problem with starting a second recording when a first recording is underway, then it should be repeatable. I may set up some tests that run during Daytime TV, to see if I can get the out-of-sync problem to repeat, reliably. -- MM ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/20/05, Mercury Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/20/05, Mark Knecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:One more observation, about a specific time:Last night's out-of-sync break occurred at 36:19 into the Charlie Rose show.That's within thefirst two minutes of Letterman.Maybe there is extra overhead at the startof a recording?Possibly. Extra overhead..., Hmmm. Going back over the logs one more time, I found an event that occurred three seconds before the out-of-sync discontinuity in the Charlie Rose program. That event is the AutoExpire of the oldest Letterman show. The size? Sixteen gigabytes - 16GB ! That's because I have the recording set for not just one hour, but over two hours to also record Craig Ferguson. (CBS doesn't start their programs on the zero-zero mark in a minute, so I gang the two shows together for ease-of-viewing). Is seems quite likely to me that the EXT3 filesystem cannot delete the 16GB file fast enough, thus causing the IOBOUND condition. A few months ago, I observed the EXT3 filesystem's long delays in deleting old recorded programs during the preparation for adding a new physical volume to the logical volume that makes up the file storage for recorded programs. I could enter all the rm commands as fast as I wanted, but the system took betwen one and two minutes to complete all the requests. It will be easy to Pre-Expire a couple of old Letterman shows, manually, and then see if Charlie Rose is recorded without any discontinuity. -- MM ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:05:32 -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote: Mercury Morris wrote: OK. Thanks for satisfying my curiousity. Since Charlie Rose is the only show that exhibits the out-of-sync behaviour, I felt it was worth asking if anyone else had seen it. There are quite a few additional tests that I can run on the MythTV systems I have access to, and I can move the Charlie Rose recordings to other, non-MythTV systems, and see if they play out-of-sync there, too. If I do eventually come up with a reasonable answer, I'll post it here. Could this be a problem with your system (instead of a problem with Myth) that others are seeing where running mythfilldatabase (or wget of any kind) while recording causes an IOBOUND situation that prevents information from being written properly and causes an A/V sync offset? In other words, does Charlie Rose happen to record around the time your mythfilldatabase runs? Another wild guess out of right fieldDo you have the box turn itself on to do this recording? And perchance do you have some older (especially SCSCI) hardware in the box? I have an old SCSI drive which I used for ripping some CD's. On playback I get weird stutters in the music. On some music the stutter was almost regular... Long story short, it turned out that the drive was doing some sort of thermal recalibration during that session. When I left the box up for 24 hours, the recalibration stutter basically disappeared. I wonder if you are seeing a similar sort of change if your system is still warming up while this program is being recorded. I've never heard of Charlie Rose, but since you record every day, could it be an afternoon program and you bring the box up just for this recording...? Just a thought... Geoff R. Geoffrey Newbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] Barrister and Solicitor Telephone: 905-271-9600 Mississauga,Ontario, Canada Facsimile: 905-271-1638 ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/20/05, R. Geoffrey Newbury [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 00:05:32 -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote:Mercury Morris wrote: OK.Thanks for satisfying my curiousity. Since Charlie Rose is the only show that exhibits the out-of-sync behaviour, I felt it was worth asking if anyone else had seen it. There are quite a few additional tests that I can run on the MythTV systems I have access to, and I can move the Charlie Rose recordings to other, non-MythTV systems, and see if they play out-of-sync there, too. If I do eventually come up with a reasonable answer, I'll post it here.Could this be a problem with your system (instead of a problem with Myth) that others are seeing where running mythfilldatabase (or wget ofany kind) while recording causes an IOBOUND situation that preventsinformation from being written properly and causes an A/V sync offset? In other words, does Charlie Rose happen to record around the time yourmythfilldatabase runs?Another wild guess out of right fieldDo you have the box turn itselfon to do this recording? And perchance do you have some older (especially SCSCI) hardware in the box?I have an old SCSI drive which I used for ripping some CD's. On playback Iget weirdstutters in the music. On some music the stutter was almostregular... Long story short, it turned out that the drive was doing some sort of thermal recalibration during thatsession. When I left the box upfor 24 hours, the recalibration stutter basically disappeared. I wonder ifyou are seeing a similar sort of change if your system is still warming up while this program is being recorded.I've never heard of Charlie Rose, but since you record every day, could itbe an afternoon program and you bring the box up just for thisrecording...?Just a thought... Not a bad scenario, good thinking. However, the box is built with all-new components, no old SCSI's. In a previous post, I have noted what my current thinking is on the most likely cause. With a little luck, I should have more information tomorrow and will post the findings here. ...never heard of Charlie Rose - Hey, at least we know your not a liberal left-winger ! Thanks for posting your thoughts on the out-of-sync troubles. -- MM ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
Mercury Morris wrote: On 9/20/05, *Mercury Morris* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/20/05, *Mark Knecht* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One more observation, about a specific time: Last night's out-of-sync break occurred at 36:19 into the Charlie Rose show. That's within the first two minutes of Letterman. Maybe there is extra overhead at the start of a recording? Possibly. Extra overhead..., Hmmm. Going back over the logs one more time, I found an event that occurred three seconds before the out-of-sync discontinuity in the Charlie Rose program. That event is the AutoExpire of the oldest Letterman show. The size? Sixteen gigabytes - 16GB ! That would do it... :) Sounds like time for another drive (and, possibly, another filesystem)... Mike ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
Mercury Morris wrote: OK. Thanks for satisfying my curiousity. Since Charlie Rose is the only show that exhibits the out-of-sync behaviour, I felt it was worth asking if anyone else had seen it. There are quite a few additional tests that I can run on the MythTV systems I have access to, and I can move the Charlie Rose recordings to other, non-MythTV systems, and see if they play out-of-sync there, too. If I do eventually come up with a reasonable answer, I'll post it here. Could this be a problem with your system (instead of a problem with Myth) that others are seeing where running mythfilldatabase (or wget of any kind) while recording causes an IOBOUND situation that prevents information from being written properly and causes an A/V sync offset? In other words, does Charlie Rose happen to record around the time your mythfilldatabase runs? http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/commits/150176 Mike ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
OK. Thanks for satisfying my curiousity. Since Charlie Rose is the only show that exhibits the out-of-sync behaviour, I felt it was worth asking if anyone else had seen it. There are quite a few additional tests that I can run on the MythTV systems I have access to, and I can move the Charlie Rose recordings to other, non-MythTV systems, and see if they play out-of-sync there, too. If I do eventually come up with a reasonable answer, I'll post it here. -- MM ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Charlie Rose via PVR-350
On 9/17/05, Mercury Morris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bear with me. I'm looking for anyone else who might observe the following: For weeks now, I have recorded Charlie Rose on KTCI, in Minnesota. In every show, at random points, the audio and video get out of sync by a few seconds. The show is still listenable, but watching the screen is like Water Torture. So, to see if it was a KTCI problem (yeah, right), I switched from KTCI to KSMQ. Aha! Same problem! My guess it's the Charlie Rose show's problem, but it still could be my system's problem. Next week, I plan to add an Air2PC card to the system in question. During that change, I will record Charlie Rose on a completely separate system and see if the problem follows along. But between now and then, I would be interested to know if anyone else has observed the out-of-sync problem while watching Charlie Rose. (I have a feeling that very, very few folks record, let alone even WATCH Charlie Rose, but my curiousity has gotten the better of me.) Thanks. -- MM Hi Mercury, I record Charlie rose daily. I see no such problem here. KQED/Comcast in the SF BAy Area. - Mark ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
