Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 03:32:17PM -0400, Jay R. Ashworth wrote: > On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 03:30:06PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote: > > Also, since Attack of the Clones was a movie to start with, maybe it was > > broadcast as 720p24 instead of 720p60. (Movies are filmed at 24fps, so > > broadcasting at higher refresh rates wouldn't add anything--it's only > > done with NTSC since NTSC only allows one format.). If so it seems > > sensible that 720p24 would take about half the bandwidth of 720p60... > > I'd expect that to be 720p30, Mike; I rarely see 60 Frame progressive > anywhere -- I may never have seen it. > There are several reasons for the small size of a movie sent this way. (I also recorded it and watched it because I went to RotSith today. MUCH better than Ep1 and Ep2, like everybody's saying. Also, in some ways, I recommend watching the original Star Wars before RotSith even more than Attack of the Clones.) As noted, the movie is generated at 24fps for cinema, and then converted to 60fps with duplicated frames etc. The duplicated frames, however, take very little space, because they are just duplicates. Secondly, Star Wars is generated digitally. Much of what you see is becoming analog for the very first time as it gets to your TV or video cable. As such it is going to be very low-noise and very suitable for good compression. Though since Star Wars is generated digitally, and Lucas wants it shown mostly on digital projectors (though they are still rare but will become the norm down the road) I think it would have been cool if he had shot and rendered it in 30fps or even 60fps. The digital cinemas could have really shown the difference, and eventually the fancy home TVs could have done the same. Attack of the Clones was one of the more remarkable HD presentations I've seen. While not up to the 2048 x 1080 show I just came from, it was still very good at 720p, and nobody talking. While nobody's going to avoid the cinema over the version on bittorrent right now, they might over a 720p version. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
Network seems to re-encode everything at the edge... I mean at the edge, just before transmission. They have no choice since they need to add the weather alert and etc... I'm assuming this, since they always send the same format at any time during the day. cropped or not, 4:3 ro 16:9, it will be 720p for Fox. I might be wrong. Steve On 5/23/05, Preston Crow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 15:38, Mudit Wahal wrote: > > libmpeg2 decoder debug: 1280x720, aspect 768000, 59.941 fps > > a52 decoder: A/52 channels:6 samplerate:48000 bitrate:448000 > > > > does it mean its sending 60fps ? > > Yup. I just saw essentially the same thing by playing it with mplayer. > > Actually, they could send 720p60, but they're sending 720p59.940. Those > are two different formats (of the 17 ATSC formats). > > Why not send it with the original fps? The networks are just too stuck > in the habit of doing everything at 59.940fps. Perhaps there are issues > with switching rates between programs? I would like to think that they > could easily switch between any of the 17 formats, even in so far as > having consecutive commercials in different formats. > > As to SW:AotC, I'm guessing that it was encoded by the network, not the > individual stations, so if any one station couldn't handle a different > fps, they couldn't use it. Of course, when two consecutive frames are > identical, it doesn't take much additional bandwidth. > > --PC > > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
Mine came in at 13G (same three hours ;)... Technically, it came in at: 13346060404 bytes. It also came in at 59.94fps (so says ProjectX). -- John Sturgeon <>< http://www.sturgeonfamily.com/mythtv.php On 5/23/05, Preston Crow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 15:38, Mudit Wahal wrote: > > libmpeg2 decoder debug: 1280x720, aspect 768000, 59.941 fps > > a52 decoder: A/52 channels:6 samplerate:48000 bitrate:448000 > > > > does it mean its sending 60fps ? > > Yup. I just saw essentially the same thing by playing it with mplayer. > > Actually, they could send 720p60, but they're sending 720p59.940. Those > are two different formats (of the 17 ATSC formats). > > Why not send it with the original fps? The networks are just too stuck > in the habit of doing everything at 59.940fps. Perhaps there are issues > with switching rates between programs? I would like to think that they > could easily switch between any of the 17 formats, even in so far as > having consecutive commercials in different formats. > > As to SW:AotC, I'm guessing that it was encoded by the network, not the > individual stations, so if any one station couldn't handle a different > fps, they couldn't use it. Of course, when two consecutive frames are > identical, it doesn't take much additional bandwidth. > > --PC > > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > -- -- John Sturgeon ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 15:38, Mudit Wahal wrote: > libmpeg2 decoder debug: 1280x720, aspect 768000, 59.941 fps > a52 decoder: A/52 channels:6 samplerate:48000 bitrate:448000 > > does it mean its sending 60fps ? Yup. I just saw essentially the same thing by playing it with mplayer. Actually, they could send 720p60, but they're sending 720p59.940. Those are two different formats (of the 17 ATSC formats). Why not send it with the original fps? The networks are just too stuck in the habit of doing everything at 59.940fps. Perhaps there are issues with switching rates between programs? I would like to think that they could easily switch between any of the 17 formats, even in so far as having consecutive commercials in different formats. As to SW:AotC, I'm guessing that it was encoded by the network, not the individual stations, so if any one station couldn't handle a different fps, they couldn't use it. Of course, when two consecutive frames are identical, it doesn't take much additional bandwidth. --PC ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
Hmm.. I tried playing it with vlc - from a ssh session :-) Atleast I can see the debugs :-) I'm still waiting for an option in vlc just to dump the info about the stream without actually playing it. Or may be there is a way and I dont know about it :-) Here are the two important debug info. libmpeg2 decoder debug: 1280x720, aspect 768000, 59.941 fps a52 decoder: A/52 channels:6 samplerate:48000 bitrate:448000 does it mean its sending 60fps ? On 5/23/05, Jay R. Ashworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 03:30:06PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote: > > Also, since Attack of the Clones was a movie to start with, maybe it was > > broadcast as 720p24 instead of 720p60. (Movies are filmed at 24fps, so > > broadcasting at higher refresh rates wouldn't add anything--it's only > > done with NTSC since NTSC only allows one format.). If so it seems > > sensible that 720p24 would take about half the bandwidth of 720p60... > > I'd expect that to be 720p30, Mike; I rarely see 60 Frame progressive > anywhere -- I may never have seen it. > > Cheers, > -- jra > -- > Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL > PROTECTED] > Designer Baylink RFC 2100 > Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 > St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 > > If you can read this... thank a system administrator. Or two. --me > > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > > > ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
On Mon, May 23, 2005 at 03:30:06PM -0400, Michael T. Dean wrote: > Also, since Attack of the Clones was a movie to start with, maybe it was > broadcast as 720p24 instead of 720p60. (Movies are filmed at 24fps, so > broadcasting at higher refresh rates wouldn't add anything--it's only > done with NTSC since NTSC only allows one format.). If so it seems > sensible that 720p24 would take about half the bandwidth of 720p60... I'd expect that to be 720p30, Mike; I rarely see 60 Frame progressive anywhere -- I may never have seen it. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth[EMAIL PROTECTED] Designer Baylink RFC 2100 Ashworth & AssociatesThe Things I Think'87 e24 St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 1274 If you can read this... thank a system administrator. Or two. --me ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
John Patrick Poet wrote: On Mon, 23 May 2005, Mudit Wahal wrote: The file size for the 3 hour HD program recorded on Fox yesterday evening from 7 to 10pm? Mine is only 12GB. -rw-r--r-- 1 mythtv mythtv 12912449684 May 22 22:00 1031_2005052219_200505.nuv Is it recorded correctly ? Just wondering ! Also, any command which can some how tell whats inside the stream/program, bitrate, frames, resolution, total time, etc without actually playing it ? Something like gspot in Windows. FOX HD shows are typically around 6-7 GB/hour where I live. Fox uses 720p which requires less bandwidth than 1080i. ABC HD also uses 720p, but their shows are smaller where I live, because they reprocess the MPEG shows to have a lower bitrate. They do this so they can sell bandwidth to other companies and make some money. Also, since Attack of the Clones was a movie to start with, maybe it was broadcast as 720p24 instead of 720p60. (Movies are filmed at 24fps, so broadcasting at higher refresh rates wouldn't add anything--it's only done with NTSC since NTSC only allows one format.). If so it seems sensible that 720p24 would take about half the bandwidth of 720p60... Mike ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
On Mon, 23 May 2005, Mudit Wahal wrote: > Hi All, > > The file size for the 3 hour HD program recorded on Fox yesterday > evening from 7 to 10pm? Mine is only 12GB. > > -rw-r--r-- 1 mythtv mythtv 12912449684 May 22 22:00 > 1031_2005052219_200505.nuv > > Is it recorded correctly ? Just wondering ! > Also, any command which can some how tell whats inside the > stream/program, bitrate, frames, resolution, total time, etc without > actually playing it ? Something like gspot in Windows. > > thx. > /m FOX HD shows are typically around 6-7 GB/hour where I live. Fox uses 720p which requires less bandwidth than 1080i. ABC HD also uses 720p, but their shows are smaller where I live, because they reprocess the MPEG shows to have a lower bitrate. They do this so they can sell bandwidth to other companies and make some money. John ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Fox 3 hour HD program size ?
On Mon, 2005-05-23 at 14:57, Mudit Wahal wrote: > The file size for the 3 hour HD program recorded on Fox yesterday > evening from 7 to 10pm? Mine is only 12GB. > Is it recorded correctly ? Just wondering ! > Also, any command which can some how tell whats inside the > stream/program, bitrate, frames, resolution, total time, etc without > actually playing it ? Something like gspot in Windows. Yeah, I confess that I also recorded Attack of the Clones yesterday, and I was afraid that it had messed up, as the file size is 12GB. With HDTV, the broadcaster has a lot of control over the bitrate. A one-hour episode of CSI is often 8GB, so I was expecting 24GB for this recording, but I suspect it's fine. But you do have a good point that we could use a tool to test the integrity of HDTV recordings. --PC ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
