Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Steve Hodge]

On 12/1/05, Ken Teague <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Also, a *base* Windows setup (including a copy of i386 in the root of
> C:) is roughly 1.5GB of data.

I understand that asthetically 1.5GB of OS is poor. But practically,
who cares? That's an hour of video at the settings I'm using. There
are plenty of good reasons not to use Windows but this is not one of
them.

Steve
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Bertrand]

I never intended this thread to be a discussion of the merits of Linux 
vs. windows.  I just wanted a bit a technical advice from the community 
before trying another os.  I apologize for putting the word "windows" in 
the subject.


I've heard good things about SageTV.

http://www.sagetv.com/

Not free, though.
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Raphael Pooser]

SixArm wrote:

I never intended this thread to be a discussion of the merits of Linux 
vs. windows.  I just wanted a bit a technical advice from the 
community before trying another os.  I apologize for putting the word 
"windows" in the subject.


92% of my computer usage is Linux, but I'm not really biased when it 
comes to solving a problem.  Sometimes you just need a dry roof over 
your head and it does't matter what kind of hammer you use to build it.


I have a simple goal.  Allow my wife to record HDTV as easily as she 
can now with our hacked TiVo.  Once this is done I get to justify the 
purchase of a 56" 1080p HDTV.  :)  If I have to go the windows route 
to get this done, I will.


I really appreciate the technical feedback and I've gotten a few good 
ideas to try out. 


cheers,

-sixarm

On 11/30/05, *Ken Teague* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote:


James C. Dastrup wrote:

>Just an off-topic tip:
>
>My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working
>system up to your network, then image it down when you need to
>rebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changes
>don't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image on
>a DVD and just image it to any computer - you never need to
>see the installation again.
>
>
I think the point, here, is that, at some point in time, you do
have to
go through the 45 minute flawed installation of Windows before you can
get to get to a point of imaging.  Lets throw sysprep in the mix and
you've possibly added a mini-setup to your post-image dump.  Tag
on the
-pnp argument to sysprep so you can detect any new hardware you
may have
thrown in your box since its last image and you've tacked on another
5-10 minutes to the mini-setup.

Also, a *base* Windows setup (including a copy of i386 in the root of
C:) is roughly 1.5GB of data.  What do you get in that
1.5GB?  Lets see,
Notepad (such a powerful text editor), Calculator, Character Map,
WordPad (even more powerful than Notepad!), Pinball, Freecell,
MediaPlayer, Internet Explorer, etc... but how much is actually
useful,
and how much productivity can be found?  Hardly any of it.  I can
install Debian in 20 minutes and have a fully functional X Window
System
and tons of utilities and productivity tools.  We can leave out
C:\i386
and take away about 500MB from that 1.5GB, and that still leaves
us with
1GB of stuff that's mostly CRAP!  To get up to speed after a
post-image
dump, you'll need to reinstall your apps which takes most of the time
when rebuiling a box.  So, tell us... how long does it take you to get
back to where you were after you dump the image in 5 minutes?

- Ken

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heh,
Ok no one said anything about any 56" TV here, somebody get me an XP CD 
stat. :P
No it's true, in the end, I think Linux is the uberOS, but I think also 
that when it comes to PVRs you do need to consider all the possibilites 
especially if you're just starting out (not that you are at all), and 
generally sometimes if you're a little screwed by the drivers in one OS 
or the other you have to do What Works(TM).
Before I said that mediaportal is too slow, and right now it is, but the 
guys working on it are working pretty hard and updating relatively 
often.  Already they have another release out since the first time I 
tried it, which was only August of this year.  I think if we give them 
some time, if I was to go the windows route I would go with media 
portal.  GBPVR I have never tried, though I downloaded.  never installed 
it as I saw it can't use my cards.
I wish someone windows or linux, would make a good PVR that could use 
all in wonders.  My all in wonder 9700 pro with the arctic cooling 
(really silent) heatsink on it is getting all lonely, poor baby.

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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Raphael Pooser]

Ken Teague wrote:


James C. Dastrup wrote:


Just an off-topic tip:

My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working
system up to your network, then image it down when you need to
rebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changes
don't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image on a DVD 
and just image it to any computer - you never need to
see the installation again.  

I think the point, here, is that, at some point in time, you do have 
to go through the 45 minute flawed installation of Windows before you 
can get to get to a point of imaging.  Lets throw sysprep in the mix 
and you've possibly added a mini-setup to your post-image dump.  Tag 
on the -pnp argument to sysprep so you can detect any new hardware you 
may have thrown in your box since its last image and you've tacked on 
another 5-10 minutes to the mini-setup.


Also, a *base* Windows setup (including a copy of i386 in the root of 
C:) is roughly 1.5GB of data.  What do you get in that 1.5GB?  Lets 
see, Notepad (such a powerful text editor), Calculator, Character Map, 
WordPad (even more powerful than Notepad!), Pinball, Freecell, 
MediaPlayer, Internet Explorer, etc... but how much is actually 
useful, and how much productivity can be found?  Hardly any of it.  I 
can install Debian in 20 minutes and have a fully functional X Window 
System and tons of utilities and productivity tools.  We can leave out 
C:\i386 and take away about 500MB from that 1.5GB, and that still 
leaves us with 1GB of stuff that's mostly CRAP!  To get up to speed 
after a post-image dump, you'll need to reinstall your apps which 
takes most of the time when rebuiling a box.  So, tell us... how long 
does it take you to get back to where you were after you dump the 
image in 5 minutes?


- Ken

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I will say, image or no image in windows, nothing can beat the 
simplicity and ease of "tar  backup.tgz /" in linux for backup 
and the subsequent ease of "tar  backup.tgz /" for 
restore.  There are plenty of other ways and programs to backup linux, 
like unison, and umpteen others, but hey, I don't think there is any 
windows program available (for free) that is as simple as just hitting 
return after a one line command (which you could make even simpler by 
just putting into a script with a really easy name like "backup_system") 
to backup or just hitting return after a one line command to restore.  
Put it in a cron, cycle the backup filenames, and you have XP's system 
restore on steroids, only it doesn't constantly take up resources.
Sorry, I'm just going on about this because I never even bothered 
backing up linux boxes until this year and so I'm still in that ooh wow 
phase about it.

Raphael
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[SixArm]

I never intended this thread to be a discussion of the merits of Linux vs. windows.  I just wanted a bit a technical advice from the community before trying another os.  I apologize for putting the word "windows" in the subject.
92% of my computer usage is Linux, but I'm not really biased when it comes to solving a problem.  Sometimes you just need a dry roof over your head and it does't matter what kind of hammer you use to build it.
I have a simple goal.  Allow my wife to record HDTV as easily as she can now with our hacked TiVo.  Once this is done I get to justify the purchase of a 56" 1080p HDTV.  :)  If I have to go the windows route to get this done, I will.
I really appreciate the technical feedback and I've gotten a few good ideas to try out.  cheers,-sixarmOn 11/30/05, Ken Teague
 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:James C. Dastrup wrote:
>Just an off-topic tip:>>My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working>system up to your network, then image it down when you need to>rebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changes
>don't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image on>a DVD and just image it to any computer - you never need to>see the installation again.>>I think the point, here, is that, at some point in time, you do have to
go through the 45 minute flawed installation of Windows before you canget to get to a point of imaging.  Lets throw sysprep in the mix andyou've possibly added a mini-setup to your post-image dump.  Tag on the
-pnp argument to sysprep so you can detect any new hardware you may havethrown in your box since its last image and you've tacked on another5-10 minutes to the mini-setup.Also, a *base* Windows setup (including a copy of i386 in the root of
C:) is roughly 1.5GB of data.  What do you get in that 1.5GB?  Lets see,Notepad (such a powerful text editor), Calculator, Character Map,WordPad (even more powerful than Notepad!), Pinball, Freecell,MediaPlayer, Internet Explorer, etc... but how much is actually useful,
and how much productivity can be found?  Hardly any of it.  I caninstall Debian in 20 minutes and have a fully functional X Window Systemand tons of utilities and productivity tools.  We can leave out C:\i386
and take away about 500MB from that 1.5GB, and that still leaves us with1GB of stuff that's mostly CRAP!  To get up to speed after a post-imagedump, you'll need to reinstall your apps which takes most of the time
when rebuiling a box.  So, tell us... how long does it take you to getback to where you were after you dump the image in 5 minutes?- Ken___mythtv-users mailing list
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Ken Teague]

James C. Dastrup wrote:


Just an off-topic tip:

My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working
system up to your network, then image it down when you need to
rebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changes
don't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image on 
a DVD and just image it to any computer - you never need to
see the installation again. 
 

I think the point, here, is that, at some point in time, you do have to 
go through the 45 minute flawed installation of Windows before you can 
get to get to a point of imaging.  Lets throw sysprep in the mix and 
you've possibly added a mini-setup to your post-image dump.  Tag on the 
-pnp argument to sysprep so you can detect any new hardware you may have 
thrown in your box since its last image and you've tacked on another 
5-10 minutes to the mini-setup.


Also, a *base* Windows setup (including a copy of i386 in the root of 
C:) is roughly 1.5GB of data.  What do you get in that 1.5GB?  Lets see, 
Notepad (such a powerful text editor), Calculator, Character Map, 
WordPad (even more powerful than Notepad!), Pinball, Freecell, 
MediaPlayer, Internet Explorer, etc... but how much is actually useful, 
and how much productivity can be found?  Hardly any of it.  I can 
install Debian in 20 minutes and have a fully functional X Window System 
and tons of utilities and productivity tools.  We can leave out C:\i386 
and take away about 500MB from that 1.5GB, and that still leaves us with 
1GB of stuff that's mostly CRAP!  To get up to speed after a post-image 
dump, you'll need to reinstall your apps which takes most of the time 
when rebuiling a box.  So, tell us... how long does it take you to get 
back to where you were after you dump the image in 5 minutes?


- Ken

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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Raphael Pooser]

Mike Wafkowski wrote:


Sorry for the misstep - I'm fully aware of the difference between freeware
and OSS and anything else you can identify.

I mistyped...geeze...

Fact is tho, both packages are FREE for the user to use. Let's leave out the
politics of OSS vs. everything else pleeeze!

MRW

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael T. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Discussion about mythtv" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(


 


Mike Wafkowski wrote:

   


I wan't recommending Windows over Linux, just saying that there is
more than one way to "skin a cat." I love Mythtv and also GBPVR. They're
both very good solutions (better than any others IMHO) and both are
freeware.


 


MythTV is definitely *not* freeware (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware ).  MythTV is open-source, FLOSS
(Free/Libre Open Source Software), or libre software, and there is a big
difference.  Sure, MythTV is available for use free of charge, but who
cares?  The important thing is that *I'm* free to use it or modify it as
I like.

So, whereas GBPVR may be freeware (whatever it is, we know it's not open
source and is not libre software), MythTV is more "free-the-user-ware".

Mike

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It is a good point though.  For someone just looking for something to 
work GBPVR may be a good solution if they can get it up and running 
easier than mythtv.  It is true that before I started my project I was 
weighing all possibilities equally, whether they be in windows or 
linux.  It so happened that absolutely nothing in windows had lax enough 
hardware requirements for me (ati tv wonder and amd 1700+).  I also 
tried freevo under linux and could just never get the damn thing to work 
while following the howtos and instructions word for word.  That's the 
funny thing, it turns out myth isn't even the hardest PVR of all of them 
to set up, lol.  In truth although I will always recommend a linux over 
windows for anything but gaming, I will say that for PVRs it is a lot 
like gaming, in that the end justifies the means, if the machine finally 
serves the function, and a lot of people just want to get one up and 
running at all.


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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Trent Albright]

Thanks James. Oh wait, you aren't James. Guess I wasn't asking you.On 11/30/05, David Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:














Linux – now what does this have to
do with MythTV?

 

David

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Trent Albright
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
3:24 PM
To: Discussion
 about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm
thinking of switching to windows :(



 

Yeah, thats exactly what
I use Symantec Ghost for. What do you use?



On 11/30/05, James
C. Dastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

Just an off-topic tip:

My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working 
system up to your network, then image it down when you need to
rebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changes
don't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image on
a DVD and just image it to any computer - you never need to 
see the installation again.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
on behalf of Michael T. Dean
Sent: Wed 11/30/2005 12:27 PM 
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

And drivers, and ...  I always set aside a minimum of 8 hours for my
biannual (that's twice a year, not biennial--once every two years) 
Windows re-install of my gaming system and I don't have to install any
apps on that system save the one game I'm playing at the time.

Not to mention the obviously-flawed Windows installer to which people
have grown so accustomed that they no longer seem to notice the flaws.
You start the Windows install, you format your disk, it copies files, it
reboots, and *then* it asks for the CD key.  Gee, thanks Microsoft,
for 
wiping my disk and preventing me from continuing to use my old OS before
you told me that some crook OEM sold me an unlicensed Windows CD with my
computer.  (OK, this one has never happened to me, but
still...  That's 
basically imposing the death sentence without judge and jury.)

So, the real flaw--that's always a problem--is the fact that there are
at least three different points during the install at which the entire
process comes to a complete stop waiting for user input.  I was
helping
a Windows fan-boy install FC4 and after it asked all the information it
needed and started downloading packages, I said, "Oh, wait.  We
have a 
problem.  I know you really like Windows, and many apps for FC4 are
designed to work like those on Windows, but the installer
doesn't.  It
won't stop 45 minutes from now asking for more information, so when we
come back, the install will be complete."

OK, not all Linux distros do their installers correctly, either--yes,
this means you Ubuntu--but come on...  Does Microsoft really expect
me
to sit there in front of the installer reading their Windows XP ads for 
45 minutes?  If so, you'd think they at least have enough ads that
they
don't repeat throughout the install.

And I won't even get into the installer loading drivers for every
possible piece of hardware before the installer can begin.  (Ever
hear 
of auto-detection, MS?)

Mike


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RE: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[David Ellis]

Linux – now what does this have to
do with MythTV?

 

David

 









From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Trent Albright
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005
3:24 PM
To: Discussion
 about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm
thinking of switching to windows :(



 

Yeah, thats exactly what
I use Symantec Ghost for. What do you use?



On 11/30/05, James
C. Dastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

Just an off-topic tip:

My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working 
system up to your network, then image it down when you need to
rebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changes
don't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image on
a DVD and just image it to any computer - you never need to 
see the installation again.



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
on behalf of Michael T. Dean
Sent: Wed 11/30/2005 12:27 PM 
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

And drivers, and ...  I always set aside a minimum of 8 hours for my
biannual (that's twice a year, not biennial--once every two years) 
Windows re-install of my gaming system and I don't have to install any
apps on that system save the one game I'm playing at the time.

Not to mention the obviously-flawed Windows installer to which people
have grown so accustomed that they no longer seem to notice the flaws.
You start the Windows install, you format your disk, it copies files, it
reboots, and *then* it asks for the CD key.  Gee, thanks Microsoft,
for 
wiping my disk and preventing me from continuing to use my old OS before
you told me that some crook OEM sold me an unlicensed Windows CD with my
computer.  (OK, this one has never happened to me, but
still...  That's 
basically imposing the death sentence without judge and jury.)

So, the real flaw--that's always a problem--is the fact that there are
at least three different points during the install at which the entire
process comes to a complete stop waiting for user input.  I was
helping
a Windows fan-boy install FC4 and after it asked all the information it
needed and started downloading packages, I said, "Oh, wait.  We
have a 
problem.  I know you really like Windows, and many apps for FC4 are
designed to work like those on Windows, but the installer
doesn't.  It
won't stop 45 minutes from now asking for more information, so when we
come back, the install will be complete."

OK, not all Linux distros do their installers correctly, either--yes,
this means you Ubuntu--but come on...  Does Microsoft really expect
me
to sit there in front of the installer reading their Windows XP ads for 
45 minutes?  If so, you'd think they at least have enough ads that
they
don't repeat throughout the install.

And I won't even get into the installer loading drivers for every
possible piece of hardware before the installer can begin.  (Ever
hear 
of auto-detection, MS?)

Mike


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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Trent Albright]

Yeah, thats exactly what I use Symantec Ghost for. What do you use?On 11/30/05, James C. Dastrup <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:Just an off-topic tip:My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working
system up to your network, then image it down when you need torebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changesdon't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image ona DVD and just image it to any computer - you never need to
see the installation again.From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Michael T. DeanSent: Wed 11/30/2005 12:27 PM
To: Discussion about mythtvSubject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(And drivers, and ...  I always set aside a minimum of 8 hours for mybiannual (that's twice a year, not biennial--once every two years)
Windows re-install of my gaming system and I don't have to install anyapps on that system save the one game I'm playing at the time.Not to mention the obviously-flawed Windows installer to which people
have grown so accustomed that they no longer seem to notice the flaws.You start the Windows install, you format your disk, it copies files, itreboots, and *then* it asks for the CD key.  Gee, thanks Microsoft, for
wiping my disk and preventing me from continuing to use my old OS beforeyou told me that some crook OEM sold me an unlicensed Windows CD with mycomputer.  (OK, this one has never happened to me, but still...  That's
basically imposing the death sentence without judge and jury.)So, the real flaw--that's always a problem--is the fact that there areat least three different points during the install at which the entire
process comes to a complete stop waiting for user input.  I was helpinga Windows fan-boy install FC4 and after it asked all the information itneeded and started downloading packages, I said, "Oh, wait.  We have a
problem.  I know you really like Windows, and many apps for FC4 aredesigned to work like those on Windows, but the installer doesn't.  Itwon't stop 45 minutes from now asking for more information, so when we
come back, the install will be complete."OK, not all Linux distros do their installers correctly, either--yes,this means you Ubuntu--but come on...  Does Microsoft really expect meto sit there in front of the installer reading their Windows XP ads for
45 minutes?  If so, you'd think they at least have enough ads that theydon't repeat throughout the install.And I won't even get into the installer loading drivers for everypossible piece of hardware before the installer can begin.  (Ever hear
of auto-detection, MS?)Mike___mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.org
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Trent Albright]

I think it's important to make the distinction, even if it seems like
to you semantic bullying (Not to say the comment sounded like that to
me). On 11/30/05, Mike Wafkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry for the misstep - I'm fully aware of the difference between freewareand OSS and anything else you can identify.I mistyped...geeze...Fact is tho, both packages are FREE for the user to use. Let's leave out the
politics of OSS vs. everything else pleeeze!MRW- Original Message -From: "Michael T. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: "Discussion about mythtv" <
mythtv-users@mythtv.org>Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:39 PMSubject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(> Mike Wafkowski wrote:
>> >I wan't recommending Windows over Linux, just saying that there is> >more than one way to "skin a cat." I love Mythtv and also GBPVR. They're> >both very good solutions (better than any others IMHO) and both are
> >freeware.> >> >> MythTV is definitely *not* freeware (> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware ).  MythTV is open-source, FLOSS
> (Free/Libre Open Source Software), or libre software, and there is a big> difference.  Sure, MythTV is available for use free of charge, but who> cares?  The important thing is that *I'm* free to use it or modify it as
> I like.>> So, whereas GBPVR may be freeware (whatever it is, we know it's not open> source and is not libre software), MythTV is more "free-the-user-ware".>> Mike>
> ___> mythtv-users mailing list> mythtv-users@mythtv.org> 
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users>>> --> No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG Free Edition.> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10
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RE: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[James C. Dastrup]

Just an off-topic tip:
 
My biannual Windows reinstall takes 5 minutes. Image a working
system up to your network, then image it down when you need to
rebuild. And if you use sysprep, then even any hardware changes
don't affect the image process. Or, put a sysprep'ed image on 
a DVD and just image it to any computer - you never need to
see the installation again. 



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Michael T. Dean
Sent: Wed 11/30/2005 12:27 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

And drivers, and ...  I always set aside a minimum of 8 hours for my
biannual (that's twice a year, not biennial--once every two years)
Windows re-install of my gaming system and I don't have to install any
apps on that system save the one game I'm playing at the time.

Not to mention the obviously-flawed Windows installer to which people
have grown so accustomed that they no longer seem to notice the flaws. 
You start the Windows install, you format your disk, it copies files, it
reboots, and *then* it asks for the CD key.  Gee, thanks Microsoft, for
wiping my disk and preventing me from continuing to use my old OS before
you told me that some crook OEM sold me an unlicensed Windows CD with my
computer.  (OK, this one has never happened to me, but still...  That's
basically imposing the death sentence without judge and jury.)

So, the real flaw--that's always a problem--is the fact that there are
at least three different points during the install at which the entire
process comes to a complete stop waiting for user input.  I was helping
a Windows fan-boy install FC4 and after it asked all the information it
needed and started downloading packages, I said, "Oh, wait.  We have a
problem.  I know you really like Windows, and many apps for FC4 are
designed to work like those on Windows, but the installer doesn't.  It
won't stop 45 minutes from now asking for more information, so when we
come back, the install will be complete."

OK, not all Linux distros do their installers correctly, either--yes,
this means you Ubuntu--but come on...  Does Microsoft really expect me
to sit there in front of the installer reading their Windows XP ads for
45 minutes?  If so, you'd think they at least have enough ads that they
don't repeat throughout the install.

And I won't even get into the installer loading drivers for every
possible piece of hardware before the installer can begin.  (Ever hear
of auto-detection, MS?)

Mike

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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Mike Wafkowski]

Sorry for the misstep - I'm fully aware of the difference between freeware
and OSS and anything else you can identify.

I mistyped...geeze...

Fact is tho, both packages are FREE for the user to use. Let's leave out the
politics of OSS vs. everything else pleeeze!

MRW

- Original Message - 
From: "Michael T. Dean" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(


> Mike Wafkowski wrote:
>
> >I wan't recommending Windows over Linux, just saying that there is
> >more than one way to "skin a cat." I love Mythtv and also GBPVR. They're
> >both very good solutions (better than any others IMHO) and both are
> >freeware.
> >
> >
> MythTV is definitely *not* freeware (
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware ).  MythTV is open-source, FLOSS
> (Free/Libre Open Source Software), or libre software, and there is a big
> difference.  Sure, MythTV is available for use free of charge, but who
> cares?  The important thing is that *I'm* free to use it or modify it as
> I like.
>
> So, whereas GBPVR may be freeware (whatever it is, we know it's not open
> source and is not libre software), MythTV is more "free-the-user-ware".
>
> Mike
>
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>
>
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Michael T. Dean]

Mike Wafkowski wrote:


I wan't recommending Windows over Linux, just saying that there is
more than one way to "skin a cat." I love Mythtv and also GBPVR. They're
both very good solutions (better than any others IMHO) and both are
freeware.
 

MythTV is definitely *not* freeware ( 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freeware ).  MythTV is open-source, FLOSS 
(Free/Libre Open Source Software), or libre software, and there is a big 
difference.  Sure, MythTV is available for use free of charge, but who 
cares?  The important thing is that *I'm* free to use it or modify it as 
I like.


So, whereas GBPVR may be freeware (whatever it is, we know it's not open 
source and is not libre software), MythTV is more "free-the-user-ware".


Mike

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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Michael T. Dean]

Raphael Pooser wrote:


Justin Hornsby wrote:

I happen to agree with the whole linux vs windows argument being a 
non-starter.  Yes, Windows is an OS you can install in less than an 
hour to have a working system, but then there are a lot of Linux 
distros which allow you to do that aswell.  Don't forget that the 
Windows install process is rarely ever over when you eject the CD.. 
all those security updates that need reboots, followed by more 
updates & reboots... you can easily kiss goodbye to the best part of 
a day doing a fresh windows install & update-fest.


Amen.  In fact, I tested it.  XP is so old now and the install process 
is so bad, it takes longer to install XP on my machine than it does to 
install ubuntu.  For the "linux is hard to install" croud there are 
tons of alternatives to XP that are in fact easier to install.  Let's 
see, Mandrake (well, mandriva), Ubuntu, Mepis, all extremely easy to 
install and actually take me less time to install than XP.  I'm 
talking about the installer copying files, configuring things, etc, 
not about me sitting there looking at the screen saying now what do I 
do when presented with a choice.  And for mythtv, don't forget 
Knoppmyth, a 15 minute install that often works right away for people 
(I don't like it but it did work when I tried it).  In fact, It took 
me 12  minutes to get ubuntu up and running on my mythtv machine.  I 
also installed XP on this same machine, and it took 40 minutes.  
Before service packs, etc.


And drivers, and ...  I always set aside a minimum of 8 hours for my 
biannual (that's twice a year, not biennial--once every two years) 
Windows re-install of my gaming system and I don't have to install any 
apps on that system save the one game I'm playing at the time.


Not to mention the obviously-flawed Windows installer to which people 
have grown so accustomed that they no longer seem to notice the flaws.  
You start the Windows install, you format your disk, it copies files, it 
reboots, and *then* it asks for the CD key.  Gee, thanks Microsoft, for 
wiping my disk and preventing me from continuing to use my old OS before 
you told me that some crook OEM sold me an unlicensed Windows CD with my 
computer.  (OK, this one has never happened to me, but still...  That's 
basically imposing the death sentence without judge and jury.)


So, the real flaw--that's always a problem--is the fact that there are 
at least three different points during the install at which the entire 
process comes to a complete stop waiting for user input.  I was helping 
a Windows fan-boy install FC4 and after it asked all the information it 
needed and started downloading packages, I said, "Oh, wait.  We have a 
problem.  I know you really like Windows, and many apps for FC4 are 
designed to work like those on Windows, but the installer doesn't.  It 
won't stop 45 minutes from now asking for more information, so when we 
come back, the install will be complete."


OK, not all Linux distros do their installers correctly, either--yes, 
this means you Ubuntu--but come on...  Does Microsoft really expect me 
to sit there in front of the installer reading their Windows XP ads for 
45 minutes?  If so, you'd think they at least have enough ads that they 
don't repeat throughout the install.


And I won't even get into the installer loading drivers for every 
possible piece of hardware before the installer can begin.  (Ever hear 
of auto-detection, MS?)


Mike
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Mike Wafkowski]

My last comment on the Win and Linux PVR issue. In my experience Windows MCE
is a serious non-starter for so many reasons that it doesn't even deserve to
be talked about. I was only referring to Windows in the context of gbpvr.

Eucumenically Yours,
Littlalex

- Original Message - 
From: "Justin Hornsby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(


> I happen to agree with the whole linux vs windows argument being a
> non-starter.  Yes, Windows is an OS you can install in less than an hour
> to have a working system, but then there are a lot of Linux distros
> which allow you to do that aswell.  Don't forget that the Windows
> install process is rarely ever over when you eject the CD.. all those
> security updates that need reboots, followed by more updates &
> reboots... you can easily kiss goodbye to the best part of a day doing a
> fresh windows install & update-fest.
>
> Then there's the thorny issue of getting tuner card hardware to work
> properly.  You only have to take a quick look at a forum like
> www.tv-cards.com/messageboard to determine what a nightmare capturing
> video on any PC platform _can_ be.
>
> I almost gave up on Linux a year ago when I first tried getting mythtv
> working.  That was after giving up on trying to get my new tuner working
> in Windows.  I stuck at it and after about a week's worth of late nights
> I got the kernel modules working properly.  Getting mythtv installed &
> running after that was a breeze - and it's been going ever since.
>
> What I would've done if I hadn't got Linux to work doesn't even bear
> thinking about - the only other option for me would be a standalone PVR
> (eew!).
>
> Anyway.. I say stick at it.  Yes, hardware can be a total pain in the
> ass to get working in Linux, but when you do, it generally stays like
> that.  Those tales of folks needing to reboot XP MCE every day haven't
> come out of nowhere, I suspect.
>
> And contrary to popular belief outside the Linux fraternity, Linux isn't
> an OS that needs constant cuddling & massaging to keep working.  Or at
> least not if you leave it alone (i.e. don't upgrade everything just
> because there's an update available without making backups).
>
> So.. do some digging & find out why your hardware isn't behaving itself
> - or else stop whining & become yet another miserable Windows user ;-)
>
> Just my opinion of course, for what it's worth.
>
> Justin.
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>
>
> -- 
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> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.13.10/189 - Release Date:
11/30/2005
>
>

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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Mike Wafkowski]

Hi All - I wan't recommending Windows over Linux, just saying that there is
more than one way to "skin a cat." I love Mythtv and also GBPVR. They're
both very good solutions (better than any others IMHO) and both are
freeware.
There is hardly any reason to run two separate PVR systems except I love to
muck around 8^). as clearly many on the list like to do.

I wasn't even addressing ease of setup though If one gets a daily migraine
from trying one solution with no relief in sight I say why not give a try to
other solutions.

I'm an OS agnostic 8^0

Peace,
MRW

- Original Message - 
From: "Raphael Pooser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" 
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(


:
Mike Wafkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I'll speak the heresy. I'm running both MTV and GBPVR in WIN2000 (the
later
> >>functioning very well through a Hauppauge MediaMVP) and the Myth box
> >>directly plugged into my A/V stuff. Strengths and weaknesses to both
> >>solutions but worth taking a look at. Take a look at the forums @
gbpvr.com.
> >>
> >>Regards,
> >>Littlalex
> >>


> ahh.  well I would say that mythtv is one of the easiest to set up
> PVRs.  Sure it's a major bitch at first but once you've done it once for
> a particular hardware combination you can at least do it easily if you
> have to again.  The problem isn't mythtv mainly, but drivers for linux.
> Mythtv supports pretty much anything but it has to also be supported by
> the right drivers in linux (like v4l, why can't it support all in
> wonders, wah wah).   Here's a quick tip.  If you have a mythtv box
> running the way you want completely optimized, don't upgrade your distro
> without backing up your system first.
> Anyway, my point is that the windows solutions have just as strict, if
> not worse hardware restrictions in general, and are literally not always
> easier to set up.  The only time they're easier to set up is when
> they're made for a specific tuner card.  Plus, in myth you can use
> software cards, with excellent results.  Most of the windows solutions
> leave you in the cold if you have a software card.  I've used media
> portal, slow it is, it's hardware requirements are stricter than mythtv,
> and while it's free, it's way too slow; in the same clock cycles it can
> probably only get about half what mythtv can get done..
> Once I had my mythbox up and running in acceptable shape, my friend just
> had to go and build himself a windows MCE 2005 box to show me how "easy"
> it was going to be compared to linux and how much more features and
> superior it was going to be since it was windows.  What a mess.  He
> STILL hasn't got it working 100% optimally with all the features right.
> The damn thing takes 70% cpu to record a show with a hardware encoder!
> He couldn't get hus remote working so he bought the $70 M$ remote
> keyboard combo.  It's a travesty. I already didn't believe the hype, but
> not only was it absolutely not easier for him to get his wondows box
> running than for me to get my myth box up, it took him much much longer
> and he still doesn't have it optimized.
> Not telling people don't go to windows or linux - just saying don't
> believe the hype - windows won't be your savior if linux is giving you
> trouble.
> Raphael
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>
>

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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Raphael Pooser]

Justin Hornsby wrote:

I happen to agree with the whole linux vs windows argument being a 
non-starter.  Yes, Windows is an OS you can install in less than an 
hour to have a working system, but then there are a lot of Linux 
distros which allow you to do that aswell.  Don't forget that the 
Windows install process is rarely ever over when you eject the CD.. 
all those security updates that need reboots, followed by more updates 
& reboots... you can easily kiss goodbye to the best part of a day 
doing a fresh windows install & update-fest.


Amen.  In fact, I tested it.  XP is so old now and the install process 
is so bad, it takes longer to install XP on my machine than it does to 
install ubuntu.  For the "linux is hard to install" croud there are tons 
of alternatives to XP that are in fact easier to install.  Let's see, 
Mandrake (well, mandriva), Ubuntu, Mepis, all extremely easy to install 
and actually take me less time to install than XP.  I'm talking about 
the installer copying files, configuring things, etc, not about me 
sitting there looking at the screen saying now what do I do when 
presented with a choice.  And for mythtv, don't forget Knoppmyth, a 15 
minute install that often works right away for people (I don't like it 
but it did work when I tried it).  In fact, It took me 12  minutes to 
get ubuntu up and running on my mythtv machine.  I also installed XP on 
this same machine, and it took 40 minutes.  Before service packs, etc.


Then there's the thorny issue of getting tuner card hardware to work 
properly.  You only have to take a quick look at a forum like 
www.tv-cards.com/messageboard to determine what a nightmare capturing 
video on any PC platform _can_ be.


I almost gave up on Linux a year ago when I first tried getting mythtv 
working.  That was after giving up on trying to get my new tuner 
working in Windows.  I stuck at it and after about a week's worth of 
late nights I got the kernel modules working properly.  Getting mythtv 
installed & running after that was a breeze - and it's been going ever 
since.


Yup sam here.  I tried my hardware in winwoes and actually had a harder 
time getting everything to work (never got the remote working even 
though it worked perfectly on the XP machine in the other room).


What I would've done if I hadn't got Linux to work doesn't even bear 
thinking about - the only other option for me would be a standalone 
PVR (eew!).


Anyway.. I say stick at it.  Yes, hardware can be a total pain in the 
ass to get working in Linux, but when you do, it generally stays like 
that.  Those tales of folks needing to reboot XP MCE every day haven't 
come out of nowhere, I suspect.


See my last post about my friend with XP MCE. stay away I think, after 
hearing this..


And contrary to popular belief outside the Linux fraternity, Linux 
isn't an OS that needs constant cuddling & massaging to keep working.  
Or at least not if you leave it alone (i.e. don't upgrade everything 
just because there's an update available without making backups).


Yup, if it ain't broke don't fix it.  Easy to backup your whole system 
in about 5 minutes: tar / with assorted options of your choice (try 
backing up that easy in windows).  If something breaks after an upgrade, 
compile the upgrade from latest source instead, after restoring your 
working backup.  More than likely what broke was already found and fixed 
in the latest CVS, or is documented to be broke and noted not to upgrade 
it you want this or that feature.


Raphael
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Justin Hornsby]

I happen to agree with the whole linux vs windows argument being a 
non-starter.  Yes, Windows is an OS you can install in less than an hour 
to have a working system, but then there are a lot of Linux distros 
which allow you to do that aswell.  Don't forget that the Windows 
install process is rarely ever over when you eject the CD.. all those 
security updates that need reboots, followed by more updates & 
reboots... you can easily kiss goodbye to the best part of a day doing a 
fresh windows install & update-fest.


Then there's the thorny issue of getting tuner card hardware to work 
properly.  You only have to take a quick look at a forum like 
www.tv-cards.com/messageboard to determine what a nightmare capturing 
video on any PC platform _can_ be.


I almost gave up on Linux a year ago when I first tried getting mythtv 
working.  That was after giving up on trying to get my new tuner working 
in Windows.  I stuck at it and after about a week's worth of late nights 
I got the kernel modules working properly.  Getting mythtv installed & 
running after that was a breeze - and it's been going ever since.


What I would've done if I hadn't got Linux to work doesn't even bear 
thinking about - the only other option for me would be a standalone PVR 
(eew!).


Anyway.. I say stick at it.  Yes, hardware can be a total pain in the 
ass to get working in Linux, but when you do, it generally stays like 
that.  Those tales of folks needing to reboot XP MCE every day haven't 
come out of nowhere, I suspect.


And contrary to popular belief outside the Linux fraternity, Linux isn't 
an OS that needs constant cuddling & massaging to keep working.  Or at 
least not if you leave it alone (i.e. don't upgrade everything just 
because there's an update available without making backups).


So.. do some digging & find out why your hardware isn't behaving itself 
- or else stop whining & become yet another miserable Windows user ;-)


Just my opinion of course, for what it's worth.

Justin.
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[R. Geoffrey Newbury]

On Wed, 30 Nov 2005 08:07:42 -0500, Lee Koloszyc wrote:

>SixArm wrote:
>> Here's some troubleshooting info from my current Gentoo setup:
>>
>> mythtv ~ # uname -a
>> Linux mythtv 2.6.14-gentoo-r2 #5 SMP Sat Nov 26 20:44:25 PST 2005 
>> x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
>>
>>
>> ivtv0: Failed to load module tveeprom
>> ivtv0: Failed to load module tuner
>> ivtv0: Failed to load module saa7115
>> ivtv0: Failed to load module saa7127
>> ivtv0: Failed to load module msp3400
>> ivtv0: Failed to load module tda9887
>>
>> Any feedback would be appreciated.
>
>I had am running similar hardware (same MB and a 3000+ on 64 bit gentoo 
>linux) and had this similar problem.   If I recall correctly it is some 
>kind of conflict between the ivtv modules and the kernel ones.  I think 
>I just moved/symlinked both places to the same directory.  I can't get 
>into my box now, so I am unable to check.   Do a find for those files 
>and you will probably find 2 copies.

You don't say what TV card hardware you are running. The HD3000 needs the
kernel tveeprom. The Hauppauge cards will use that module, but seem to
require their own  tuner modules (with '-ivtv' added to the names' and
aliased). And ivtv has to be loaded first. I suggest that you also upgrade
to the newest ivtv .5 version, which handles this better.

So you need: 

alias char-major-81 videodev
alias char-major-81-0 ivtv #for your PVR500 tuner 1 or your
150/250/350
alias char-major-81-1 ivtv # PVR500 tuner #2
#alias tveeprom tveeprom-ivtv#make it use the kernel module
alias tuner tuner-ivtv
etc.

***Now choose:***
***EITHER 
alias char-major-81-2  cx8800  # for NTSC with the HD3000 
   # and the card will show up
at /dev/video2
*OR*

install cx88-dvb   # for ATSC with the HD3000
   # and the card will show up
at /dev/dvb/adapter0 with subfolders.
install cx88-blackbird   # this is an encoder module of some
sort

These 2 are mutually exclusive. You cannot do both at once. 

You can however actively rmmod one set and modprobe the other into place
without re-booting... How mythtv would react is unknown.Even if
you have distinct lineups for the 2 setups and 'install' both versions of
the card in mythtv-setup, you would have to play some very careful games
with the mysql database and priorities to not have mythv barf. It always
expects to have its specified input cards available and this setup
necessarily requires that one *not* exist.

Geoff


R. Geoffrey Newbury  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Barrister and Solicitor Telephone: 905-271-9600 

Mississauga,Ontario, Canada  Facsimile:   905-271-1638

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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Raphael Pooser]

Fredrik Karlsson wrote:


Hi,

This is of cource not at all the forum for this discussion, but it you
need Window$, maybe you should try MediaPortal as an alternative.

http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/

I heard someone calling it a bit on the slow side, but hey, with the
computers available today, I think that is no problem.

For me MythTV is the best option, but getting it to work has been a
trip. See my blog for details.

/Fredrik

On 11/30/05, Mike Wafkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 


I'll speak the heresy. I'm running both MTV and GBPVR in WIN2000 (the later
functioning very well through a Hauppauge MediaMVP) and the Myth box
directly plugged into my A/V stuff. Strengths and weaknesses to both
solutions but worth taking a look at. Take a look at the forums @ gbpvr.com.

Regards,
Littlalex

   




--
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http://gentoomythtv.blogspot.com/
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ahh.  well I would say that mythtv is one of the easiest to set up 
PVRs.  Sure it's a major bitch at first but once you've done it once for 
a particular hardware combination you can at least do it easily if you 
have to again.  The problem isn't mythtv mainly, but drivers for linux.  
Mythtv supports pretty much anything but it has to also be supported by 
the right drivers in linux (like v4l, why can't it support all in 
wonders, wah wah).   Here's a quick tip.  If you have a mythtv box 
running the way you want completely optimized, don't upgrade your distro 
without backing up your system first.
Anyway, my point is that the windows solutions have just as strict, if 
not worse hardware restrictions in general, and are literally not always 
easier to set up.  The only time they're easier to set up is when 
they're made for a specific tuner card.  Plus, in myth you can use 
software cards, with excellent results.  Most of the windows solutions 
leave you in the cold if you have a software card.  I've used media 
portal, slow it is, it's hardware requirements are stricter than mythtv, 
and while it's free, it's way too slow; in the same clock cycles it can 
probably only get about half what mythtv can get done..
Once I had my mythbox up and running in acceptable shape, my friend just 
had to go and build himself a windows MCE 2005 box to show me how "easy" 
it was going to be compared to linux and how much more features and 
superior it was going to be since it was windows.  What a mess.  He 
STILL hasn't got it working 100% optimally with all the features right.  
The damn thing takes 70% cpu to record a show with a hardware encoder!  
He couldn't get hus remote working so he bought the $70 M$ remote 
keyboard combo.  It's a travesty. I already didn't believe the hype, but 
not only was it absolutely not easier for him to get his wondows box 
running than for me to get my myth box up, it took him much much longer 
and he still doesn't have it optimized.
Not telling people don't go to windows or linux - just saying don't 
believe the hype - windows won't be your savior if linux is giving you 
trouble.

Raphael
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Fredrik Karlsson]

Hi,

This is of cource not at all the forum for this discussion, but it you
need Window$, maybe you should try MediaPortal as an alternative.

http://mediaportal.sourceforge.net/

I heard someone calling it a bit on the slow side, but hey, with the
computers available today, I think that is no problem.

For me MythTV is the best option, but getting it to work has been a
trip. See my blog for details.

/Fredrik

On 11/30/05, Mike Wafkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I'll speak the heresy. I'm running both MTV and GBPVR in WIN2000 (the later
> functioning very well through a Hauppauge MediaMVP) and the Myth box
> directly plugged into my A/V stuff. Strengths and weaknesses to both
> solutions but worth taking a look at. Take a look at the forums @ gbpvr.com.
>
> Regards,
> Littlalex
>


--
My Gentoo + PVR-350 + IVTV + MythTV blog is on
http://gentoomythtv.blogspot.com/
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[korebantic]

Interesting. I assume you have used both MythTV and GBPVR -- how do they 
compare to each other?

--- Mike Wafkowski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'll speak the heresy. I'm running both MTV and GBPVR in WIN2000 (the later 
> functioning very
> well through a Hauppauge MediaMVP) and the Myth box directly plugged into my 
> A/V stuff.
> Strengths and weaknesses to both solutions but worth taking a look at. Take a 
> look at the forums
> @ gbpvr.com.
> 
> Regards,
> Littlalex
>   - Original Message - 
>   From: SixArm 
>   To: mythtv-users@mythtv.org 
>   Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:28 PM
>   Subject: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(
> 
> 
>   I consider myself a pretty savvy Linux user.  It's my day job and I live 
> and breath it 10
> hours+ a day. I've gone through the mailing lists and tried just about every 
> troubleshoot
> technique I could find.
> 
>   I've tried multiple combination of linux distros and drivers to get my 
> mythtv setup working
> nicely.  However, I can't seem to get the magic combination. 
> 
>   Here's my hardware setup:
> 
>   MSI K8 Neo4 Platinum mobo
>   AMD64 3200+ Athlon
>   2 Gig Kingston RAM
>   2 x 200G Samsung SATA drives
>   Soundblaster Audigy 2 ZS
>   Haupauge WinTV-PVR 350 pci
>   PCHDTV-3000 HD tuner 
>   NEC 16x DVDR
> 
>   I don't really watch live tv and my ultimate goal is to be able to schedule 
> and record clear
> QAM HDTV from comcast.  As a bonus I'd like to be able to archive my dvds to 
> a fileserver.
> 
>   My first attempt was to use KnoppMyth which required tweaking the setup to 
> partition the disks
> myself.  It just never liked my SATA drives. 
> 
>   The second attempt was using 64bit FC4.  No problems getting the system 
> setup but the ivtv
> drivers don't like 64bit.
> 
>   Third attempt was the most successful 32bit FC4 thanks to Jarod's FC HOWTO. 
>  I could tune the
> Haupauge card and get the TV-out working nicely from the Haupauge.  No luck 
> with the
> PCHDTV-3000.  After one yum update I was no longer able to tune anything on 
> the Haupauge card.  
> 
>   For my forth attempt I decided to go as clean as possible.  64Bit Gentoo.  
> I want to take
> advantage of the Athlon's Quiet & Cool and from what I was under the 
> assumption this is related
> to the 64bit distro?
> 
>   I was able to build all the device drivers except for the lirc stuff, but 
> I'll sort that out
> after I can see some HD.
> 
> 
>   If anyone's got a similar setup or some feed back I'd really appreciate it. 
>  My next step is
> to toss the HD3000 into the box of parts in the basement and work on a 
> windows solution.  I
> really rather not do this. 
> 
>   I seem to only get static from the cards, and it's hard to tell which 
> device is associated
> with each card.
> 
>   Here's some troubleshooting info from my current Gentoo setup:
> 
>   mythtv ~ # uname -a
>   Linux mythtv 2.6.14-gentoo-r2 #5 SMP Sat Nov 26 20:44:25 PST 2005 x86_64 
> AMD Athlon(tm) 64
> Processor 3200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux
> 
>   mythtv ~ # lsmod
>   Module  Size  Used by
>   ivtv_fb40920  0
>   ivtv  207636  1 ivtv_fb 
>   snd_emu10k1   114884  0
>   snd_util_mem5952  1 snd_emu10k1
>   snd_ac97_codec105496  1 snd_emu10k1
>   snd_ac97_bus4480  1 snd_ac97_codec
>   snd_rtctimer5024  0
>   snd_rawmidi24864  1 snd_emu10k1 
>   snd_hwdep  10592  1 snd_emu10k1
>   snd_pcm_oss52320  0
>   snd_pcm89800  3 snd_emu10k1,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_oss
>   snd_timer  23752  3 snd_emu10k1,snd_rtctimer,snd_pcm 
>   snd_page_alloc 11792  2 snd_emu10k1,snd_pcm
>   snd_mixer_oss  18112  1 snd_pcm_oss
>   snd52552  8
> snd_emu10k1,snd_ac97_codec,snd_rawmidi,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mixer_oss
>  
>   8021q  20688  0
>   nvidiafb   52512  0
>   softcursor  4032  1 nvidiafb
>   cfbimgblt   4864  1 nvidiafb
>   cfbfillrect 6400  1 nvidiafb
>   cfbcopyarea 6080  1 nvidiafb 
>   s2io   49352  0
>   tvaudio26652  0
>   tuner  26208  0
>   tda988716080  0
>   tda987510064  0
>   tda743210264  0
>   rds11804  0 
>   msp340029952  0
>   ir_kbd_i2c  9868  0
>   ir_kbd_gpio 8580  0
>   cx88_dvb   10628  0
>   video_buf_dvb   7300  1 cx88_dvb
>   cx88_blackbird 16084  0
>   cx8802 12164  2 cx88_dvb,cx88_blackbird
>   cx8800 32716  1 cx88_blackbird
>   cx88xx 59424  4 cx88_dvb,cx88_blackbird,cx8802,cx8800
>   v4l1_compat14084  1 cx8800
>   bttv  184528  1 ir_kbd_gpio
>   video_buf  21636  7
> cx88_dvb,video_buf_dvb,cx88_blackbird

Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Lee Koloszyc]

SixArm wrote:
For my forth attempt I decided to go as clean as possible.  64Bit 
Gentoo.  I want to take advantage of the Athlon's Quiet & Cool and 
from what I was under the assumption this is related to the 64bit distro?


I was able to build all the device drivers except for the lirc stuff, 
but I'll sort that out after I can see some HD.



If anyone's got a similar setup or some feed back I'd really 
appreciate it.  My next step is to toss the HD3000 into the box of 
parts in the basement and work on a windows solution.  I really rather 
not do this.


I seem to only get static from the cards, and it's hard to tell which 
device is associated with each card.


Here's some troubleshooting info from my current Gentoo setup:

mythtv ~ # uname -a
Linux mythtv 2.6.14-gentoo-r2 #5 SMP Sat Nov 26 20:44:25 PST 2005 
x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux



ivtv0: Failed to load module tveeprom
ivtv0: Failed to load module tuner
ivtv0: Failed to load module saa7115
ivtv0: Failed to load module saa7127
ivtv0: Failed to load module msp3400
ivtv0: Failed to load module tda9887

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Cheers,

-sixarm


I had am running similar hardware (same MB and a 3000+ on 64 bit gentoo 
linux) and had this similar problem.   If I recall correctly it is some 
kind of conflict between the ivtv modules and the kernel ones.  I think 
I just moved/symlinked both places to the same directory.  I can't get 
into my box now, so I am unable to check.   Do a find for those files 
and you will probably find 2 copies.



Lee
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Re: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of switching to windows :(

[Mike Wafkowski]

I'll speak the heresy. I'm running both MTV and 
GBPVR in WIN2000 (the later functioning very well through a Hauppauge MediaMVP) 
and the Myth box directly plugged into my A/V stuff. Strengths and weaknesses to 
both solutions but worth taking a look at. Take a look at the forums @ 
gbpvr.com.
 
Regards,
Littlalex

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  SixArm 
  To: mythtv-users@mythtv.org 
  Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 7:28 
  PM
  Subject: [mythtv-users] I'm thinking of 
  switching to windows :(
  I consider myself a pretty savvy Linux user.  It's my day 
  job and I live and breath it 10 hours+ a day. I've gone through the mailing 
  lists and tried just about every troubleshoot technique I could 
  find.I've tried multiple combination of linux distros and drivers to 
  get my mythtv setup working nicely.  However, I can't seem to get the 
  magic combination. Here's my hardware setup:MSI K8 Neo4 
  Platinum moboAMD64 3200+ Athlon2 Gig Kingston RAM2 x 200G Samsung 
  SATA drivesSoundblaster Audigy 2 ZSHaupauge WinTV-PVR 350 
  pciPCHDTV-3000 HD tuner NEC 16x DVDRI don't really watch live 
  tv and my ultimate goal is to be able to schedule and record clear QAM HDTV 
  from comcast.  As a bonus I'd like to be able to archive my dvds to a 
  fileserver.My first attempt was to use KnoppMyth which required 
  tweaking the setup to partition the disks myself.  It just never liked my 
  SATA drives. The second attempt was using 64bit FC4.  No problems 
  getting the system setup but the ivtv drivers don't like 64bit.Third 
  attempt was the most successful 32bit FC4 thanks to Jarod's FC HOWTO.  I 
  could tune the Haupauge card and get the TV-out working nicely from the 
  Haupauge.  No luck with the PCHDTV-3000.  After one yum update I was 
  no longer able to tune anything on the Haupauge card.  For my 
  forth attempt I decided to go as clean as possible.  64Bit Gentoo.  
  I want to take advantage of the Athlon's Quiet & Cool and from what I was 
  under the assumption this is related to the 64bit distro?I was able to 
  build all the device drivers except for the lirc stuff, but I'll sort that out 
  after I can see some HD.If anyone's got a similar setup or some 
  feed back I'd really appreciate it.  My next step is to toss the HD3000 
  into the box of parts in the basement and work on a windows solution.  I 
  really rather not do this. I seem to only get static from the cards, 
  and it's hard to tell which device is associated with each card.Here's 
  some troubleshooting info from my current Gentoo setup:mythtv ~ # 
  uname -aLinux mythtv 2.6.14-gentoo-r2 #5 SMP Sat Nov 26 20:44:25 PST 2005 
  x86_64 AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linuxmythtv 
  ~ # 
  lsmodModule  
  Size  Used 
  byivtv_fb    
  40920  
  0ivtv  
  207636  1 ivtv_fb 
  snd_emu10k1   
  114884  
  0snd_util_mem    
  5952  1 
  snd_emu10k1snd_ac97_codec    
  105496  1 
  snd_emu10k1snd_ac97_bus    
  4480  1 
  snd_ac97_codecsnd_rtctimer    
  5024  
  0snd_rawmidi    
  24864  1 snd_emu10k1 
  snd_hwdep  
  10592  1 
  snd_emu10k1snd_pcm_oss    
  52320  
  0snd_pcm    
  89800  3 
  snd_emu10k1,snd_ac97_codec,snd_pcm_osssnd_timer  
  23752  3 snd_emu10k1,snd_rtctimer,snd_pcm 
  snd_page_alloc 11792  
  2 
  snd_emu10k1,snd_pcmsnd_mixer_oss  
  18112  1 
  snd_pcm_osssnd    
  52552  8 
  snd_emu10k1,snd_ac97_codec,snd_rawmidi,snd_hwdep,snd_pcm_oss,snd_pcm,snd_timer,snd_mixer_oss 
  8021q  
  20688  
  0nvidiafb   
  52512  
  0softcursor  
  4032  1 
  nvidiafbcfbimgblt   
  4864  1 
  nvidiafbcfbfillrect 
  6400  1 
  nvidiafbcfbcopyarea 
  6080  1 nvidiafb 
  s2io   
  49352  
  0tvaudio    
  26652  
  0tuner  
  26208  
  0tda9887    
  16080  
  0tda9875    
  10064  
  0tda7432    
  10264  
  0rds    
  11804  0 
  msp3400    
  29952  
  0ir_kbd_i2c  
  9868  
  0ir_kbd_gpio 
  8580  
  0cx88_dvb   
  10628  
  0video_buf_dvb   
  7300  1 
  cx88_dvbcx88_blackbird 
  16084  
  0cx8802 
  12164  2 
  cx88_dvb,cx88_blackbirdcx8800 
  32716  1 
  cx88_blackbirdcx88xx 
  59424  4 
  cx88_dvb,cx88_blackbird,cx8802,cx8800v4l1_compat    
  14084  1 
  cx8800bttv  
  184528  1 
  ir_kbd_gpiovideo_buf  
  21636  7 
  cx88_dvb,video_buf_dvb,cx88_blackbird,cx8802,cx8800,cx88xx,bttvv4l2_common 
  8512  2 
  cx8800,bttvtveeprom   
  16876  2 cx88xx,bttv 
  videodev   
  11328  5 
  ivtv,cx88_blackbird,cx8800,cx88xx,bttvbtcx_risc   
  6472  4 
  cx8802,cx8800,cx88xx,bttvor51132