Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Have you looked into a complete case change? Anyone have experience with the Zalman tnn300 case? http://www.zalman.co.kr/eng/product/view.asp?idx=176&code=020 Jeff Simpson wrote: I am upgrading the processor in my myth/desktop box from an AthlonXP 1600 to a 3000 (because it's the fastest processor my board can support and I was going to buy another 1600 for somebody else but opted to trade mine up and give them my old one instead). I need to get a new fan because the one I have doesn't cool enough for a 3000. I have always gotten the Thermaltake brand and really like them, but I want to get something quiet. I looked for the Thermaltake SilentBoost A1889, and while it seems like a great + quiet fan, there are NO vendors that have any stock in these, except the ones selling it for $50 (instead of $20). I have an order placed for one, but I expect it, like the others, will be cancelled when they realize they have no stock. So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for good silent SocketA fans that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd like to keep cost under $30 and preferably have the noise rating close to or under 20dBA. Thanks - Je ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Joe Votour wrote: --- Meatwad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Brad Fuller wrote: Joe Votour wrote: If your board has the four holes surrounding the CPU (which is apparently not required by AMD in Socket A designs), then you can use one of the Zalman flower designs. When the fan is turned down to the lowest, it's very quiet, and still does a good job of cooling. (I use them in all of my PCs, including my socket 754 MythTV machine.) I just put in a all copper Zalman on a socket 754. Much quieter than the stock. you probably could get by with the copper and aluminum mix. I think it was $20 cheaper at newegg.com. I have three of the Zalman Cu/Al flowers right now - first one bought over two years ago IIRC. No problems whatsoever. At the speeds they are set at now, they cannot be heard over the Silverstone power supplies I've been using. There may be quieter fansinks out there but I haven't felt the need to improve on these. Slightly off-topic, is anyone using a Seasonic power supply? I was reading some reviews and they sound promising. 80+ efficiency across all loads sounds like a really good idea for and media center machine. If they are as quiet as the reviewers claim, I'll probably switch. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users I have two Seasonic power supplies actually - I have a Super Tornado 400W in my MythTV machine, and an S12 in my Via EPIA-based file server. (I was also using a Super Silencer in my desktop until I picked up a P150 case which includes the NeoHE). I find that the Seasonic power supplies are great, and are very quiet. I can't say that I've actually measured real numbers on them, but the noisiest thing in my MythTV machine is the two 60mm exhaust fans on the back. With those fans undervolted, the machine is reasonably quiet (by reasonably, I mean, I can't hear it while sitting on the couch, 10 or so feet away). -- Joe __ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users Yeah seasonics are the quietest supply I've ever heard, or not heard actually. We put an S12 in my girlfriend's athlon64 3000+ machine and the PS fan spins at a constant 600rpm. It is temperature controlled but I believe around 600 is the lowest it will go. Under full load it never goes higher. With the included fan speed reducing connectors (they just 7 volt your fans) connected to the processor and case fan, the computer is completely silent, and I mean completely silent, from 3 feet away. It is more quiet than my mythtv machine by far. Raphael ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Peter Loron wrote: On Dec 1, 2005, at 10:46 PM, Bob wrote: Jeff Simpson wrote: I am upgrading the processor in my myth/desktop box from an AthlonXP 1600 to a 3000 (because it's the fastest processor my board can support and I was going to buy another 1600 for somebody else but opted to trade mine up and give them my old one instead). I need to get a new fan because the one I have doesn't cool enough for a 3000. I have always gotten the Thermaltake brand and really like them, but I want to get something quiet. I looked for the Thermaltake SilentBoost A1889, and while it seems like a great + quiet fan, there are NO vendors that have any stock in these, except the ones selling it for $50 (instead of $20). I have an order placed for one, but I expect it, like the others, will be cancelled when they realize they have no stock. So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for good silent SocketA fans that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd like to keep cost under $30 and preferably have the noise rating close to or under 20dBA. Thanks I've got two of these http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/4in1heatpipe/cl-p0071SonicTower/ cl-p0071.htm on two Athlon XP 3200s and they're awesome, my frontend goes up to 54C under heavy load with one 40Gb 7200RPM Hard-Drive and one slow spinning 120mm fan, my backend is exactly the same but plus a 200Gb 7200RPM /myth drive and I've seen 57C as measured by the sensor on the MB under the chip, (I gather there is a 7~18C difference between that and the on-die thermistor) I'm considering taking the thing out of the case and mounting it on the wall at which point you wouldn't need a fan at all. If the SonicTower won't work (needs the P4 style through-mobo mounting holes and is huge), I've had really good luck with the ArcticCooling Copper Silent 2TC. The Zalman 7000/7700 are highly regarded. Also check here for more info: http://silentpcreview.com -Pete ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users I second the suggestion for arctic cooling. In my experience, arctic cooling is generally less loud than zalman, and often cheaper. Also you get a 5 year warranty, so if those bearings start to squeal, you're not gonna be out of luck. I got the arctic cooling copper lite: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186131 It is extremely lightweight and also very easy to mount. I 7-volted it using one of the in-series resistors that came with one of my zalman 90mm fans. One 7volted it is completey inaudible when inside a case for me. It's cooling an athlon 1700+ Palomino, which is pretty much guaranteed to run hotter than your 3000+ thoroughbred or barton. That said, under full load I reach only about 43C, showing how amazing the cooler is for the money. Using my older AMD heatsink along with a zalman fan 7-volted I could get up to around 56 sometimes even 59C (talking summertime temps here). For $10 this is the best socket A HSF you cna get for the money I'd say. Just to tell you it's not that specific model, I also have the vga silencer rev 3 for my all in wonder 9700 pro. Also silent in the low setting. I also have the Silencer64 ultra TC. That one is the copper lite's older brother (aluminum only though) and also an extremely great cooler with literally no noise whatsoever (talking max of 800rpm on the fan so that's why. Raphael ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
It doesn't meet your cost constraint, but when I was considering doing the same thing you are doing, I went with the Thermalright SI-97A. I got the 'A' model because it is also usable with socket 754 so I could keep using it when if/when I upgrade. It doesn't come with a fan, but I had a 92mm Zalman fan which was fairly quiet to begin with and then I undervolted it to 5V which made it silent. The best place to find out which fans are truly quiet is at www.silentpcreview.com. The only tricky part is that the Thermalright fan mounting clips require your fan have "open corners" with the mounting holes accessible from the inside. Fans with "filled-in" corners won't work, unless you're handy with a dremel tool. Believe it or not, I've found that the best way to get a quiet heatsink is to find out what the air-cooling overclockers are using and use a quiet fan instead of the screaming Volcanos they use. In the end, however, I did not upgrade my Athlon XP. At the time, it turned out to be cheaper (and cooler) to upgrade to a socket 754 motherboard with an Athlon or Sempron 64 CPU, so I did that instead. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
On Dec 1, 2005, at 10:46 PM, Bob wrote: Jeff Simpson wrote: I am upgrading the processor in my myth/desktop box from an AthlonXP 1600 to a 3000 (because it's the fastest processor my board can support and I was going to buy another 1600 for somebody else but opted to trade mine up and give them my old one instead). I need to get a new fan because the one I have doesn't cool enough for a 3000. I have always gotten the Thermaltake brand and really like them, but I want to get something quiet. I looked for the Thermaltake SilentBoost A1889, and while it seems like a great + quiet fan, there are NO vendors that have any stock in these, except the ones selling it for $50 (instead of $20). I have an order placed for one, but I expect it, like the others, will be cancelled when they realize they have no stock. So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for good silent SocketA fans that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd like to keep cost under $30 and preferably have the noise rating close to or under 20dBA. Thanks I've got two of these http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/4in1heatpipe/cl-p0071SonicTower/ cl-p0071.htm on two Athlon XP 3200s and they're awesome, my frontend goes up to 54C under heavy load with one 40Gb 7200RPM Hard-Drive and one slow spinning 120mm fan, my backend is exactly the same but plus a 200Gb 7200RPM /myth drive and I've seen 57C as measured by the sensor on the MB under the chip, (I gather there is a 7~18C difference between that and the on-die thermistor) I'm considering taking the thing out of the case and mounting it on the wall at which point you wouldn't need a fan at all. If the SonicTower won't work (needs the P4 style through-mobo mounting holes and is huge), I've had really good luck with the ArcticCooling Copper Silent 2TC. The Zalman 7000/7700 are highly regarded. Also check here for more info: http://silentpcreview.com -Pete ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Richard Bronosky wrote: Bob wrote: Jeff Simpson wrote: 8< Snip need new quiet heat sync I've got two of these http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/4in1heatpipe/cl-p0071SonicTower/cl-p0071.htm on two Athlon XP 3200s and they're awesome, my frontend goes up to 54C under heavy load with one 40Gb 7200RPM Hard-Drive and one slow spinning 120mm fan, my backend is exactly the same but plus a 200Gb 7200RPM /myth drive and I've seen 57C as measured by the sensor on the MB under the chip, (I gather there is a 7~18C difference between that and the on-die thermistor) I'm considering taking the thing out of the case and mounting it on the wall at which point you wouldn't need a fan at all. Wow, that's a cool looking heat sink. (NPI) It seems that putting the fan in between the two "beach condos" would provide better flow. Is there enough room? Yes, there's probably room (the heatpipes are a bit flexible) but there's a non-insurmountable problem that the holes that the fan holders screw into are on the outside, (both sides so you could have the fan on either side) but I don't have a fan on it at all, it's quite close to the power supply and the very slow spinning and quiet 120mm fan on that in conjunction with convection causes easily enough airflow to keep things cool, the next step for me (if I needed more cooling) would be to build some cardboard ducting to direct more of the suction from the PSU fan past the CPU heat sync, after that I'd put in a case fan and cardboard ducting. I find that breakfast cereal boxes and masking tape are the best combination for home-brew ducting. -- tveeprom: Hauppauge: model = 34132, rev = J158, tveeprom: tuner = Philips FM1236 MK3 (idx = 58, type = 4) tveeprom: audio_processor = MSP3416 (type = 14) (new type Model 401) model name : mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP Processor cpu MHz : 2277.214 cache size : 512 KB (Plenty o' grunt on an ECS k7s5a MB) Knoppmyth R5A16 (unmodified) http://mysettopbox.tv/CHANGELOG.txt MythTV 0.18.1 ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Wow, that's a cool looking heat sink. (NPI) It seems that putting the fan in between the two "beach condos" would provide better flow. Is there enough room? Bob wrote: Jeff Simpson wrote: I am upgrading the processor in my myth/desktop box from an AthlonXP 1600 to a 3000 (because it's the fastest processor my board can support and I was going to buy another 1600 for somebody else but opted to trade mine up and give them my old one instead). I need to get a new fan because the one I have doesn't cool enough for a 3000. I have always gotten the Thermaltake brand and really like them, but I want to get something quiet. I looked for the Thermaltake SilentBoost A1889, and while it seems like a great + quiet fan, there are NO vendors that have any stock in these, except the ones selling it for $50 (instead of $20). I have an order placed for one, but I expect it, like the others, will be cancelled when they realize they have no stock. So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for good silent SocketA fans that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd like to keep cost under $30 and preferably have the noise rating close to or under 20dBA. Thanks I've got two of these http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/4in1heatpipe/cl-p0071SonicTower/cl-p0071.htm on two Athlon XP 3200s and they're awesome, my frontend goes up to 54C under heavy load with one 40Gb 7200RPM Hard-Drive and one slow spinning 120mm fan, my backend is exactly the same but plus a 200Gb 7200RPM /myth drive and I've seen 57C as measured by the sensor on the MB under the chip, (I gather there is a 7~18C difference between that and the on-die thermistor) I'm considering taking the thing out of the case and mounting it on the wall at which point you wouldn't need a fan at all. -- Thank you for your time, --==<< R i c h a r d B r o n o s k y >>==-- Nearly all viruses and spyware are designed to use Microsoft internet products. Protect yourself by avoiding Internet Explorer & Outlook/Outlook Express. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Jeff Simpson wrote: I am upgrading the processor in my myth/desktop box from an AthlonXP 1600 to a 3000 (because it's the fastest processor my board can support and I was going to buy another 1600 for somebody else but opted to trade mine up and give them my old one instead). I need to get a new fan because the one I have doesn't cool enough for a 3000. I have always gotten the Thermaltake brand and really like them, but I want to get something quiet. I looked for the Thermaltake SilentBoost A1889, and while it seems like a great + quiet fan, there are NO vendors that have any stock in these, except the ones selling it for $50 (instead of $20). I have an order placed for one, but I expect it, like the others, will be cancelled when they realize they have no stock. So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for good silent SocketA fans that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd like to keep cost under $30 and preferably have the noise rating close to or under 20dBA. Thanks I've got two of these http://www.thermaltake.com/coolers/4in1heatpipe/cl-p0071SonicTower/cl-p0071.htm on two Athlon XP 3200s and they're awesome, my frontend goes up to 54C under heavy load with one 40Gb 7200RPM Hard-Drive and one slow spinning 120mm fan, my backend is exactly the same but plus a 200Gb 7200RPM /myth drive and I've seen 57C as measured by the sensor on the MB under the chip, (I gather there is a 7~18C difference between that and the on-die thermistor) I'm considering taking the thing out of the case and mounting it on the wall at which point you wouldn't need a fan at all. -- tveeprom: Hauppauge: model = 34132, rev = J158, tveeprom: tuner = Philips FM1236 MK3 (idx = 58, type = 4) tveeprom: audio_processor = MSP3416 (type = 14) (new type Model 401) model name : mobile AMD Athlon(tm) XP Processor cpu MHz : 2277.214 cache size : 512 KB (Plenty o' grunt on an ECS k7s5a MB) Knoppmyth R5A16 (unmodified) http://mysettopbox.tv/CHANGELOG.txt MythTV 0.18.1 ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
--- Meatwad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Brad Fuller wrote: > > > Joe Votour wrote: > > > >>If your board has the four holes surrounding the > CPU > >>(which is apparently not required by AMD in Socket > A > >>designs), then you can use one of the Zalman > flower > >>designs. When the fan is turned down to the > lowest, > >>it's very quiet, and still does a good job of > cooling. > >> (I use them in all of my PCs, including my socket > 754 > >>MythTV machine.) > > > > I just put in a all copper Zalman on a socket 754. > Much quieter than the > > stock. > > you probably could get by with the copper and > aluminum mix. I think it > > was $20 cheaper at newegg.com. > > I have three of the Zalman Cu/Al flowers right now - > first one bought > over two years ago IIRC. No problems whatsoever. At > the speeds they are > set at now, they cannot be heard over the > Silverstone power supplies > I've been using. There may be quieter fansinks out > there but I haven't > felt the need to improve on these. > > Slightly off-topic, is anyone using a Seasonic power > supply? I was > reading some reviews and they sound promising. 80+ > efficiency across all > loads sounds like a really good idea for and media > center machine. If > they are as quiet as the reviewers claim, I'll > probably switch. > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > I have two Seasonic power supplies actually - I have a Super Tornado 400W in my MythTV machine, and an S12 in my Via EPIA-based file server. (I was also using a Super Silencer in my desktop until I picked up a P150 case which includes the NeoHE). I find that the Seasonic power supplies are great, and are very quiet. I can't say that I've actually measured real numbers on them, but the noisiest thing in my MythTV machine is the two 60mm exhaust fans on the back. With those fans undervolted, the machine is reasonably quiet (by reasonably, I mean, I can't hear it while sitting on the couch, 10 or so feet away). -- Joe __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Brad Fuller wrote: Joe Votour wrote: If your board has the four holes surrounding the CPU (which is apparently not required by AMD in Socket A designs), then you can use one of the Zalman flower designs. When the fan is turned down to the lowest, it's very quiet, and still does a good job of cooling. (I use them in all of my PCs, including my socket 754 MythTV machine.) I just put in a all copper Zalman on a socket 754. Much quieter than the stock. you probably could get by with the copper and aluminum mix. I think it was $20 cheaper at newegg.com. I have three of the Zalman Cu/Al flowers right now - first one bought over two years ago IIRC. No problems whatsoever. At the speeds they are set at now, they cannot be heard over the Silverstone power supplies I've been using. There may be quieter fansinks out there but I haven't felt the need to improve on these. Slightly off-topic, is anyone using a Seasonic power supply? I was reading some reviews and they sound promising. 80+ efficiency across all loads sounds like a really good idea for and media center machine. If they are as quiet as the reviewers claim, I'll probably switch. ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
On 12/1/05, Jeff Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for good silent SocketA fans that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd like to keep cost under $30 and preferably have the noise rating close to or under 20dBA. Thanks I'm happy with the Thermalright SI-97 and Panaflo L1A on my Duron 1400. I'm not sure this HS scales up to the 3000+, but as mentioned, there's always the XP-120. ;) ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
Joe Votour wrote: If your board has the four holes surrounding the CPU (which is apparently not required by AMD in Socket A designs), then you can use one of the Zalman flower designs. When the fan is turned down to the lowest, it's very quiet, and still does a good job of cooling. (I use them in all of my PCs, including my socket 754 MythTV machine.) Otherwise, another good heatsink is the Thermalright XP series. They're just a big block, and you attach your own (quiet) fan onto them (of course, you need to find a quiet fan). If you're looking to make a quieter PC, I highly recommend that you check out http://www.silentpcreview.com - they have reviews of many heatsinks along with noise readings. -- Joe I just put in a all copper Zalman on a socket 754. Much quieter than the stock. you probably could get by with the copper and aluminum mix. I think it was $20 cheaper at newegg.com. --- Jeff Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I am upgrading the processor in my myth/desktop box from an AthlonXP 1600 to a 3000 (because it's the fastest processor my board can support and I was going to buy another 1600 for somebody else but opted to trade mine up and give them my old one instead). I need to get a new fan because the one I have doesn't cool enough for a 3000. I have always gotten the Thermaltake brand and really like them, but I want to get something quiet. I looked for the Thermaltake SilentBoost A1889, and while it seems like a great + quiet fan, there are NO vendors that have any stock in these, except the ones selling it for $50 (instead of $20). I have an order placed for one, but I expect it, like the others, will be cancelled when they realize they have no stock. So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for good silent SocketA fans that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd like to keep cost under $30 and preferably have the noise rating close to or under 20dBA. Thanks - Jeff ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users __ Yahoo! DSL – Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
Re: [mythtv-users] Silent Fan for Socket A (AthlonXP 3000)
If your board has the four holes surrounding the CPU (which is apparently not required by AMD in Socket A designs), then you can use one of the Zalman flower designs. When the fan is turned down to the lowest, it's very quiet, and still does a good job of cooling. (I use them in all of my PCs, including my socket 754 MythTV machine.) Otherwise, another good heatsink is the Thermalright XP series. They're just a big block, and you attach your own (quiet) fan onto them (of course, you need to find a quiet fan). If you're looking to make a quieter PC, I highly recommend that you check out http://www.silentpcreview.com - they have reviews of many heatsinks along with noise readings. -- Joe --- Jeff Simpson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am upgrading the processor in my myth/desktop box > from an AthlonXP 1600 to > a 3000 (because it's the fastest processor my board > can support and I was > going to buy another 1600 for somebody else but > opted to trade mine up and > give them my old one instead). > > I need to get a new fan because the one I have > doesn't cool enough for a > 3000. I have always gotten the Thermaltake brand and > really like them, but I > want to get something quiet. I looked for the > Thermaltake SilentBoost A1889, > and while it seems like a great + quiet fan, there > are NO vendors that have > any stock in these, except the ones selling it for > $50 (instead of $20). > > I have an order placed for one, but I expect it, > like the others, will be > cancelled when they realize they have no stock. > > So my question: Anybody have other suggestions for > good silent SocketA fans > that will be happy cooling an AthlonXP 3000? I'd > like to keep cost under $30 > and preferably have the noise rating close to or > under 20dBA. Thanks > > - Jeff > > ___ > mythtv-users mailing list > mythtv-users@mythtv.org > http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users > __ Yahoo! DSL Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ___ mythtv-users mailing list mythtv-users@mythtv.org http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
