Level3/AT&T Problems Today

2004-05-18 Thread Marius Strom

Anyone else seeing problems with packets going between ATT and L3? Just
starting a few minutes ago (looks like the problem is in their Dallas
peering point)

If you're in a position to do something about it and need more info,
drop me a line and I'll get you traceroute's, IP examples, etc..

-- 
   /----->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Mike Andrews |>


Discussion Group: Web Based tool for tracking circuits

2004-03-08 Thread Marius Strom

Hrm, sent several hours ago and still hasn't had nanog. Resending
in-case it got snarfed by hungry routers on the intarweb.

- Forwarded message from Marius Strom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:36:14 -0600
From: Marius Strom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Discussion Group: Web Based tool for tracking circuits
Mail-Followup-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Ok, I've created a "carrier-neutral" mailing list on yahoogroups to
house people who are interested in such a system.

Interested developers and such should subscribe to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] We can start discussions on what's out there, how
to integrate things, possibly create a sourceforge project, etc.

It seems everyone wants one, but no one's got one completed (other than
Excel spreadsheets).

On Mon, 08 Mar 2004, william(at)elan.net wrote:
> Several commercial ip allocation systems exist (cost thousands, I came 
> across couple of them but did not keep list). The closest opensource on 
> this is freeipdb (http://www.freeipdb.org), but its not very feature-rich.
> The IRM project (which I've never heard about until I just demod it right 
> now), comes much closer to what maybe needed and it does seem like it can 
> be converted to serve ISP allocation needs somewhat easily and is quite 
> extensible for shared enviroments, but in any case, such project needs to 
> be done right, i.e.:
>  1. Creating mail list and first discussing and list of goals and features
> we want in this system.
>  2. Looking at existing project to see which can feets best or parts of which 
> of which projects can possible be combined together
>  2. Creating sourceforge (or other) project and assiging features to be 
> implemented to developers. 
>  Etc.
> 
> If others are interested lets get together to work on it. I'm willing to 
> help in possible support for rwhois server or automated swips to arin and 
> some other back-end support where I have some experience I'm guessing 
> that at least half a dozen people need to get involved and be willing to 
> spend some of their time (perhaps 10 hours/month) for this to come through
> and most need to be php web developers if IRM is to be used as origin. 
> 
> If I receive favorable response privately about it and enough people are 
> willing to spend their time on it, I'll let you know about what the project
> development webpage would be (i.e. sourceforge most likely)
- End forwarded message -

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Mike Andrews |>


[ralden@ralden.com: FW: Web Based tool for tracking circuits]

2004-03-08 Thread Marius Strom


- Forwarded message from "Roland H. Alden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -

Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:04:13 -0800
From: "Roland H. Alden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Marius Strom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: FW: Web Based tool for tracking circuits
Return-Path: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I guess I'm not allowed to post but here is something I sent for your info.


-Original Message-
From: Roland H. Alden 
Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:37 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Web Based tool for tracking circuits


> If there is, let me know.  I started to work on one a couple 
> of years ago, I could dust off the project.

Same here. 

I haven't got time to dust off my project but I would gladly contribute what I have to 
someone else; basically a complex SQL schema with some queries, constraints and 
triggers done and/or partially baked. 

My model was as follows:

A location hierarchy tunable to whatever resolution was of interest; i.e., 
City:Facility:Floor:Rack etc.

A very complex model for pieces of equipment; i.e. chassis, blades within chassis, 
physical ports on blades. Ports themselves are modeled with data about their 
connectors (i.e., RJ45 male/female, DB9 male/female, etc.).

A model of special "ports" which are status indicators like LEDs, what their exact 
equipment labeling is, and what colors and what not they might normally be. I.e., 
information of value when walking some remote hands through a troubleshooting 
procedure.

A model for port-specific configuration so that the database can "know" that port x13 
on such an such an ethernet switch is connected to VLAN 3, etc.

A model for what ports should be physically connected to what ports. A necessary list 
of cables can then be generated automatically; connector specs and unique cable ID's 
are generated. A database of common connectors and their "opposite sex" is part of the 
model. The system does not take advantage of any understanding of how far apart ports 
are to suggest a cable length, but once a cable table is generated that can be added 
by hand so that the information is captured.

A "fanout" cable model accomodates single cables that connect more than two ports.

A power model that records how much heat is generated by each device and how much 
power of what flavor it consumes.

A circuit model similar to the cable model (port:circuit:port) but accomodates 
"tunnels" such as a ds1 inside a ds3, or a VPN tunnel. A "noc contact" record can be 
associated with a particular circuit and the contractual details of a circuit (such as 
SLA) can also be recorded. A unique circuit ID is generated and a vendor's circuit ID 
can be recorded as well. 

Equipment configurations (and history of them) is stored within each item of 
equipment. However, there is no sophisticated linkage or syntax checking between the 
equipment model and the configuration and there is no way to automatically push a 
configuration to its equipment.

Documents such as PDF files of equipment manuals or contracts can be attached to 
various items like equipment records, circuit records, etc. However this does require 
"blob" support and in my implementation is all MSFT specific code.

A somewhat badly implemented fine-grained security model so that various views show 
only the rows a person was allowed to see and/or edit. My notion was that the system 
would be used across handoff boundaries but I didn't exactly get that far.

FWIW.






- End forwarded message -

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Mike Andrews |>


Summary: Web Based tool for tracking circuits

2004-03-08 Thread Marius Strom

Sorry about the self-reply, but I figured I'd keep the Followup threads
going on this one.

Out of almost a dozen responses received, it seems that everyone is
currently looking for such a solution. Everyone currently seems to be
using their own Excel spreadsheet (which, obviously, isn't that ideal in
a shared environment).

One person is using IRM[1], slightly modified to track circuits and IP
allocations instead of just tracking computers.

Another person (Curtis Maurand <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) sent mail to NANOG
indicating at one point he was working on such a beast. Curtis, I'm
gonna pass the buck to you -- it looks like it's time to dust off your
project cause nothing else exists. If you're wanting to do so, contact
me off-list and I'll see what help I can lend (though IANA web
developer).

[1]: http://www.atrustrivalie.org/irm/

On Sun, 07 Mar 2004, Marius Strom wrote:
> 
> I know there's always people searching out web based utils for tracking
> IP allocations and such, but surprisingly I don't recall there ever
> being discussion on tracking circuits. I'm looking for such a tool and
> am curious if anyone knows of one?
> 
> I'm looking to track: circuit type, circuit id, trouble reporting
> number, serving telco.  Possibly more, such as connected-router
> information, etc.
> 
> Thanks in advance, if there's sufficient demand I'll summarize back to
> the list.
> 
> -- 
>/->
> Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
> Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
> System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
> http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
>\-----| Mike Andrews |>

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Mike Andrews |>


Web Based tool for tracking circuits

2004-03-07 Thread Marius Strom

I know there's always people searching out web based utils for tracking
IP allocations and such, but surprisingly I don't recall there ever
being discussion on tracking circuits. I'm looking for such a tool and
am curious if anyone knows of one?

I'm looking to track: circuit type, circuit id, trouble reporting
number, serving telco.  Possibly more, such as connected-router
information, etc.

Thanks in advance, if there's sufficient demand I'll summarize back to
the list.

-- 
   /----->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Mike Andrews |>


Re: PC Routers (was Re: /24s run amuck)

2004-01-15 Thread Marius Strom

Yep, that describes the old GRF400/800 to a T.  It was gated.

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Nicole wrote:
>  I used to work with an Ascend GRF (goes real fast) Router that was nothing
> more than a hacked BSD os running on a hard drive at first then they
> moved to a flash card that controlled some custom switching hardware.
> But all the functions were via the BSD os and I think it just used
> Gated.
> 
>  Sounds very similiar.
> 
> 
>   Nicole
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  |\ __ /|   (`\
>  | o_o  |__  ) )   
> //  \\ 
>  -  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  -  Powered by FreeBSD  -
> --
>  " Daemons" will now be known as "spiritual guides"
> -Politically Correct UNIX Page
> 
> "Witchcraft is in essence the worship of the powers of this world,
>  beautiful and terrible, but all in a circle under the turning sky
>  that is the One." -C.A. Burland, "Echoes of Magic"
> 
> "Connecting with energy is something humans have to be open
>  to and talking about and expecting,  otherwise the whole human
>  race can go back to pretending that life is about power over others
>  and exploiting the planet.  If we go back to doing this,
>  then we won't survive."  -James Redfield, "The Celestine Prophecy"
> 

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Mike Andrews |>


Re: Cox.Net problems?

2003-12-23 Thread Marius Strom

Never mind; either it fixed itself or someone fixed the routing table.
All is well, nothing to see here, move along.

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003, Marius Strom wrote:
> Any cox.net folks around this evening?
> 
> Seems packets from various cox.net terminated sites to AT&T address
> space (12.0.0.0/8) is going to Singtel.net out of Singapore. Singtel.net
> is not permitting transit.
> 
> Partial MTR below:
> 
>  2. bcstbbrc01-vln30.ma.dl.cox-internet0%1111   11   11 11
>  3. dllsbbrc01-gew0402.ma.dl.cox-intern0%1118   18   18 18
>  4. dllsdsrc01-gew0303.rd.dl.cox.net   0%1160   60   60 60
>  5. dllsbbrc01-pos0101.rd.dl.cox.net   0%1116   16   16 16
>  6. chndbbrc02-pos0103.rd.ph.cox.net   0%1137   37   37 37
>  7. chndbbrc01-pos0100.rd.ph.cox.net   0%1144   44   44 44
>  8. lvxxbbrc01-pos0103.rd.lv.cox.net   0%1147   47   47 47
>  9. paltbbrj01-pos01.r2.pt.cox.net 0%1164   64   64 64
> 10. g1-0-0.plapx-ar1.ix.singtel.com0%1172   72   72 72
> 11. 203.208.182.21 0%1168   68   68 68
> 12. 203.208.182.1290%11   254  254  254 254
> 13. ???
> 
> If need be for troubleshooting at the source (connected via Cox), I can
> be reached 
> 
> -- 
>    /->
> Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
> Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
> System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
> http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
>\-| Alan Frame |------>

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


Cox.Net problems?

2003-12-23 Thread Marius Strom

Any cox.net folks around this evening?

Seems packets from various cox.net terminated sites to AT&T address
space (12.0.0.0/8) is going to Singtel.net out of Singapore. Singtel.net
is not permitting transit.

Partial MTR below:

 2. bcstbbrc01-vln30.ma.dl.cox-internet0%1111   11   11 11
 3. dllsbbrc01-gew0402.ma.dl.cox-intern0%1118   18   18 18
 4. dllsdsrc01-gew0303.rd.dl.cox.net   0%1160   60   60 60
 5. dllsbbrc01-pos0101.rd.dl.cox.net   0%1116   16   16 16
 6. chndbbrc02-pos0103.rd.ph.cox.net   0%1137   37   37 37
 7. chndbbrc01-pos0100.rd.ph.cox.net   0%1144   44   44 44
 8. lvxxbbrc01-pos0103.rd.lv.cox.net   0%1147   47   47 47
 9. paltbbrj01-pos01.r2.pt.cox.net 0%1164   64   64 64
10. g1-0-0.plapx-ar1.ix.singtel.com0%1172   72   72 72
11. 203.208.182.21 0%1168   68   68 68
12. 203.208.182.1290%11   254  254  254 254
13. ???

If need be for troubleshooting at the source (connected via Cox), I can
be reached via 979-575-1605.

-- 
   /----->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


Old Lorain Rectifier Manual availability?

2003-10-08 Thread Marius Strom

Does anyone know where to find old Lorain Rectifier manuals
(Specifically model #A50F50)?  Google (groups and www) turns up nothing.

(A PDF would be nice, but I don't have my fingers crossed)

-- 
   /----->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


Re: What *are* they smoking?

2003-09-16 Thread Marius Strom

Just noticed this: verisign is redirecting queries for dorkslayers.com's
old RBL, even though dorkslayers.com is a registered and active domain.
It just has no name servers. 

So it seems they're doing this to billing-active domains as well.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Sabri Berisha wrote:
> 
> On Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 12:56:57AM +0200, Niels Bakker wrote:
> > 
> > A wildcard A record in the net TLD.
> > 
> > $ host does.really-not-exist.net
> > does.really-not-exist.net has address 64.94.110.11
> > 
> > $ host 64.94.110.11
> > 11.110.94.64.IN-ADDR.ARPA domain name pointer sitefinder-idn.verisign.com
> 
> Simply inject a route for 64.94.110.11/32 in your favorite IGP, route it 
> to a box and alias it on eth0. Put up a 404 not found and let Verisign
> rot in hell until such time as they regain their consiousness.
> 
> -- 
> Sabri Berisha "I route, therefore you are"
> 
> "Wij doen niet aan default gateways" - anonymous engineer bij een DSL klant.
> 

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


Re: (Slightly OT) Bandwidth in Belize

2003-09-09 Thread Marius Strom

Monopoly status for BTL expired December 31, 2002.

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
> 
> > Generally, you get paved roads and working telco service BEFORE
> > you can buy T1's..
> 
> And isn't BTL the legislated monopoly carrier? (Although I heard rumours
> that this was supposed to change at some point ...)
> 
> I suspect satellite is your only option.
> 
> --lyndon
> 

-- 
   /--------->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


Re: (Slightly OT) Bandwidth in Belize

2003-09-09 Thread Marius Strom

Hey, they've improved!  In San Pedro, the fire engine I saw was a
new-ish Ford F-350 with a water tank on the back, painted fire-engine
red. :)

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, David Lesher wrote:
> 
> Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
> > 
> > 
> > Can anyone here point me to T1 bandwidth providers in Belize,
> > specifically Belize City, San Pedro, and Caye Caulker?
> > (Preferably not via BTL, and not satellite links)
> 
> 
> ROTFL!! I've spent more time in Belize, esp. BC, than I wish.
> [Check our Four Fourth Street's "Death by Chocolote" for dessert.]
> 
> Generally, you get paved roads and working telco service BEFORE
> you can buy T1's..
> 
> The fire truck I saw was (as Dave Barry world say, "I'm NOT making
> this up...") a 1908 Dennis. They kept a 2nd for parts.

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


(Slightly OT) Bandwidth in Belize

2003-09-09 Thread Marius Strom

Can anyone here point me to T1 bandwidth providers in Belize,
specifically Belize City, San Pedro, and Caye Caulker?
(Preferably not via BTL, and not satellite links)

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


cox.net/cox-internet.com people here?

2003-09-04 Thread Marius Strom

Please contact me off-list.

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->


Re: Level3 routing issues?

2003-01-25 Thread Marius Strom

FYI we're not seeing any particular problems with Qwest here in Houston,
TX (connected off iah-edge-04).

Is anyone (CERT, etc.) starting to collect lists of affected hosts via
log submissions so we can get this stuff reported?

On Sat, 25 Jan 2003, Andy Dills wrote:
> Oh, and the master ticket number is 693626, with no ETR.
> 
> 
> Any speculation as to why Qwest is taking it in the ass so particularly
> hard?
> 
> Andy
> 
> 
> Andy Dills  301-682-9972
> Xecunet, LLCwww.xecu.net
> 
> Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access
> 

-- 
   /----->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->



qwest<->bbnplanet problems this morning?

2002-11-13 Thread Marius Strom

Is anyone else seeing occasional flapping between qwest and bbn this
morning?  I've got TT's open w/Qwest and since the ticket-taker I spoke
to had 0 clue, I assume my T1's will go down for testing anytime. *sigh*


-- 
   /----->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->



Re: Fiber Cut, TX?

2002-09-25 Thread Marius Strom


To summarize, I've heard back from folks in San Antonio that are using
these folks for transit and/or fiber without problem.  I've also heard
of an AT&T cut in Houston that effects KMC in Beaumont, Nederland, and
Pascagoula.  Also heard of an SBC fiber cut in Crosby, with no ETR.

Further information from folks at the QwestDial NOC (good guys there!)
is that KMC is saying it's a fiber cut in Houston in a heavily
trafficked area, and they can't get to the fiber to repair it until
TxDOT or the county or whoever is responsible for the road/highway shuts
it down for traffic at 6pm so the splicing crews can get to it.

*sigh* I wish my .signature didn't hold true.

On Wed, 25 Sep 2002, Marius Strom wrote:
> 
> We've got some problems with Qwest outsourced dial in eastern Texas, and
> Qwest is telling us that the telcos (KMC, AT&T, Time Warner) are
> reporting a fiber cut, but aren't willing to give out a location.  Has
> anyone heard of a fiber cut in the vicinity of Texas (yeah, I know
> that's really broad, but that's all I've got to go on)?

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->



Fiber Cut, TX?

2002-09-25 Thread Marius Strom


We've got some problems with Qwest outsourced dial in eastern Texas, and
Qwest is telling us that the telcos (KMC, AT&T, Time Warner) are
reporting a fiber cut, but aren't willing to give out a location.  Has
anyone heard of a fiber cut in the vicinity of Texas (yeah, I know
that's really broad, but that's all I've got to go on)?

-- 
   /--------->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->



SpamCop Forgeries

2002-09-07 Thread Marius Strom


FYI, for those of you who get worried when you see mail from spamcop
hitting your postmaster addresses:

http://www.julianhaight.com/forgery.shtml

It may be forged.

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->



Re: Certification or College degrees? Was: RE: list problems?

2002-05-22 Thread Marius Strom


Also sounds a lot like Texas A&M University's Telecommunications
Engineering Technology degree. (Yes, it says Engineering Technology.
No, it's not a two year associates degree.)  It's currently rich on
voice communications networks, but is picking up tremendously on data
communications.

http://etidweb.tamu.edu/telecomm/tel_index.html

On Wed, 22 May 2002, Pistone, Mike wrote:

> 
> Not to toot the horn of my Alma Mater too much, but Ohio University's
> Communication Systems Management program (www.csm.ohiou.edu) is also along
> the lines of a network engineering degree.  It also focus on other aspects
> of the industry (regulation, comm theory, security, etc) but they all sort
> of flow together.  They were just getting into more hands on networking labs
> when I graduated, I am sure they have greatly improved since then.
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: John Kristoff [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 3:52 PM
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Certification or College degrees? Was: RE: list problems?
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 22 May 2002 16:40:27 -0400
> "Kristian P. Jackson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > network engineers, just as a bunch of network engineers are no more
> > qualified to program. Perhaps a bachelors in network engineering is in
> > order?
> 
> We actually have that - or something close to it.  We are slowly
> building a bigger networking lab with router-ish stuff for students to
> learn from.  In fact, I'll be handing off full BGP table for them to see
> and play with in the lab.  If you want to help us educate, we'll gladly
> accept any donations, particularly gear, we can get.  :-)
> 
> http://www.cs.depaul.edu/programs/2002/BachelorNT2002.asp
> http://ipdweb.cs.depaul.edu/programs/lan/index.html
> http://condor.depaul.edu/~jkristof/tdc375/
> http://condor.depaul.edu/~jkristof/2001Spr365/
> 
> John

-- 
   /->
Marius Strom   | Always carry a short length of fibre-optic cable.
Professional Geek  | If you get lost, then you can drop it on the
System/Network Admin   | ground, wait 10 minutes, and ask the backhoe
http://www.marius.org/ | operator how to get back to civilization.
   \-| Alan Frame |-->