Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
Matthew Zito wrote: Hello, snip I've had good luck shipping ~600 lbs of gear next day with Eagle Global Logistics. (http://www.eagleusa.com) It was fairly reasonably priced, too. HTH, Gabriel -- Gabriel Cain www.dialupusa.net Systems Administrator [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dialup USA, Inc.888-460-2286 ext 208 PGP Key ID: 2B081C6D PGP fingerprint: C0B4 C6BF 13F5 69D1 3E6B CD7C D4C8 2EA4 2B08 1C6D Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.
RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
Thanks to everyone for all of the responses. I got in touch with a number of companies - the two big common sticking points seem to be insuring shipments of greater than 50k value and the SLAs on their freight delivery. Overall (price vs. SLA vs. convenience), FedEx won, though they max out at 50k insurance per shipment. ForwardAir was the nicest and most helpful, but they charge $1 per $100 of shipped value and they have very rigid packing requirements for high-value shipments (plus a 4-day delivery timeframe). Airborne Express was notable for their willingness to insure well above the 50k max per shipment, though they require advance notice. Thanks again, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com -Original Message- From: Christopher Bird [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 6:19 PM To: 'Matthew Zito' Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? I have used Federal Express to great effect in the past. I have tended to stay away from Airborne because the local people here in Dallas didn't know not to turn printers full of toner on their sides. Since Airborne packed them, I felt they should not have been full of toner, but that is another story! Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 1:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? Hello, I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. Thanks again, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On 27 Aug 2003, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: FedEx Heavy = pay a surcharge for heavy boxes, get it moved by a 120 pound delivery person with a handtruck rather than a pallet jack or other appropriate freight handling equipment... and dropped off the truck. My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507 and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back when I was at AboveNet: http://www.seastrom.com/fedex/ That's it Rob, let it all out. ;) I can certainly empathize, as I have have my bad experiences with Fedex as well. We also use Emery on a regular basis for the big things also. The bottom line is, like vendors, all shippers can suck at times...it really is luck of the draw if some guy along the line decides that he is going to not care about your gear at some point while he is handling it. Accidents happen as well... C'est la vie..what can you do. Counter to counter I find is most effective, but as mentioned earlier, does require some effort on the sender's part. andy -- PGP Key Available at http://www.tigerteam.net/andy/pgp
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
A counter-to-counter shipment on a passenger airline is a thing of the past (at least from my experiences going directly to the passenger airlines). After Sept 11 the FAA has required that passenger airlines only accept shipments from known shippers (unless this has changed in the last 14 months). What does this mean? You need to setup an account with the airline (may of them will setup the account and still be able to bill to a credit card). You also need to become a known shipper by having their courier/employee visit your location and verify that you are a known shipper. Once this occurs you can do passenger airline counter-to-counter shipments at will. Setup time takes 7-10 days from what I remember. If anybody has counter-to-counter on their disaster recovery plans you may want to get setup as a known shipper. I went through the process with United's Cargo division http://www.unitedcargo.com. I used them as a backup to America West Airlines as I am located in Phoenix, AZ. -Andy --- Robert E. Seastrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: N. Richard Solis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me. FedEx Heavy = pay a surcharge for heavy boxes, get it moved by a 120 pound delivery person with a handtruck rather than a pallet jack or other appropriate freight handling equipment... and dropped off the truck. My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507 and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back when I was at AboveNet: http://www.seastrom.com/fedex/ You COULD do a counter to counter shipment via an airline cargo desk. That MIGHT be cheaper but you will still have to transport it from your spot to their pickup and back again on the other side. Counter-to-counter is the *last* way you would want to ship that sort of thing (handled as luggage on a flight, beat to hell by baggage handlers, and you get to retrieve it from baggage claim in an airport and schlep it all the way to your car). Far better (if you have access to trucks on both ends) is to ship it air freight. As you enter your favorite airport, follow the signs to Air Cargo, not the signs to the passenger terminal. When you find a place with a lot of places for 18-wheelers to back up to loading docks, and relatively few places for cars to park, you've found the right place. Matthew doesn't mention specific terminus points for the shipment, but based on whois information I'll make a wild guess that NYC is one end. JFK appears to be the big United installation (vs LGA and EWR), per info on www.unitedcargo.com - I tend to prefer them because of their long hours for pickup and delivery at IAD, which makes life convenient for me. :) If you need door-to-door service, there are numerous air freight forwarders who can handle palletized equipment and move it around the country/world in a timely fashion (and really, if you're talking about 300+ pounds of rackmount equipment, that's how you want to move it anyway). Two companies that I've used and been quite happy with the results are Cavalier International and Eagle Global Logistics. You may recognize Eagle's logo from stickers on previous shipments that you've gotten from major manufacturers who have stuff manufactured in the Far East. The Pros Know. http://www.eaglegl.com/ http://www.cavalier-intl.com/ ---Rob
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
Andy Walden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That's it Rob, let it all out. ;) I can certainly empathize, as I have have my bad experiences with Fedex as well. We also use Emery on a regular basis for the big things also. The bottom line is, like vendors, all shippers can suck at times...it really is luck of the draw if some guy along the line decides that he is going to not care about your gear at some point while he is handling it. Accidents happen as well... Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise. C'est la vie..what can you do. Counter to counter I find is most effective, but as mentioned earlier, does require some effort on the sender's part. Do you really mean counter to counter, or do you mean Real Air Freight (like going to the United Air Cargo facility behind Gate Gourmet in the same strip as FedEx out at IAD)? Real Air Freight (tm) rocks my world. Going into the terminal to baggage claim and trying to find someone to help you find your package is annoying. ---Rob
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
Excellent points; didn't cross my mind since I've had (personal) accounts with Delta and United for ages now. Probably a call to ForwardAir, Cavalier, or EGL would get you their rules of engagement too. You might want to try http://www.khcargo.com/ for non-passenger air cargo. ---Rob Andy Ellifson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: A counter-to-counter shipment on a passenger airline is a thing of the past (at least from my experiences going directly to the passenger airlines). After Sept 11 the FAA has required that passenger airlines only accept shipments from known shippers (unless this has changed in the last 14 months). What does this mean? You need to setup an account with the airline (may of them will setup the account and still be able to bill to a credit card). You also need to become a known shipper by having their courier/employee visit your location and verify that you are a known shipper. Once this occurs you can do passenger airline counter-to-counter shipments at will. Setup time takes 7-10 days from what I remember. If anybody has counter-to-counter on their disaster recovery plans you may want to get setup as a known shipper. I went through the process with United's Cargo division http://www.unitedcargo.com. I used them as a backup to America West Airlines as I am located in Phoenix, AZ. -Andy --- Robert E. Seastrom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: N. Richard Solis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me. FedEx Heavy = pay a surcharge for heavy boxes, get it moved by a 120 pound delivery person with a handtruck rather than a pallet jack or other appropriate freight handling equipment... and dropped off the truck. My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507 and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back when I was at AboveNet: http://www.seastrom.com/fedex/ You COULD do a counter to counter shipment via an airline cargo desk. That MIGHT be cheaper but you will still have to transport it from your spot to their pickup and back again on the other side. Counter-to-counter is the *last* way you would want to ship that sort of thing (handled as luggage on a flight, beat to hell by baggage handlers, and you get to retrieve it from baggage claim in an airport and schlep it all the way to your car). Far better (if you have access to trucks on both ends) is to ship it air freight. As you enter your favorite airport, follow the signs to Air Cargo, not the signs to the passenger terminal. When you find a place with a lot of places for 18-wheelers to back up to loading docks, and relatively few places for cars to park, you've found the right place. Matthew doesn't mention specific terminus points for the shipment, but based on whois information I'll make a wild guess that NYC is one end. JFK appears to be the big United installation (vs LGA and EWR), per info on www.unitedcargo.com - I tend to prefer them because of their long hours for pickup and delivery at IAD, which makes life convenient for me. :) If you need door-to-door service, there are numerous air freight forwarders who can handle palletized equipment and move it around the country/world in a timely fashion (and really, if you're talking about 300+ pounds of rackmount equipment, that's how you want to move it anyway). Two companies that I've used and been quite happy with the results are Cavalier International and Eagle Global Logistics. You may recognize Eagle's logo from stickers on previous shipments that you've gotten from major manufacturers who have stuff manufactured in the Far East. The Pros Know. http://www.eaglegl.com/ http://www.cavalier-intl.com/ ---Rob
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
I'm not sure if any of them are here, or if they would make their info known...but I'm sure vendors have some good data. I know Cisco's online ordering tool has about a bazillion (and yes, that's the right term) shippers, and I'm sure they track the number of problems reported. No doubt other vendors do as well. Anyone friends with someone in the logistics department at a big hardware vendor care to comment? :) -- Leo Bicknell - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - [EMAIL PROTECTED], www.tmbg.org pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On 27 Aug 2003, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: Andy Walden [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise. I can agree in principal, so long as we can designate a company that will execute proper company policy and do so *every* time. Unfortunately, for the purpose of the general well-being of our gear, we arrive back at generally blue collar, none-the-less, well paid, package handlers that individually define preferences for how they feel like doing it that day. C'est la vie..what can you do. Counter to counter I find is most effective, but as mentioned earlier, does require some effort on the sender's part. Do you really mean counter to counter, or do you mean Real Air Freight (like going to the United Air Cargo facility behind Gate Gourmet in the same strip as FedEx out at IAD)? Real Air Freight (tm) rocks my world. Going into the terminal to baggage claim and trying to find someone to help you find your package is annoying. Granted, it's been awhile since I have shipped counter to counter since I joined the dark side (vendor side), it probably was before 9/11, and things may be different now. Please forgive any outdated experiences represented. andy -- PGP Key Available at http://www.tigerteam.net/andy/pgp
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Leo Bicknell wrote: I'm not sure if any of them are here, or if they would make their info known...but I'm sure vendors have some good data. I know Cisco's online ordering tool has about a bazillion (and yes, that's the right term) shippers, and I'm sure they track the number of problems reported. No doubt other vendors do as well. Certainly, with 4.7 BILLION in revnue last quarter (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/030805/55780_1.html), they must have significant relationships with specific shippers to generate real data. The only objection I can think of is if you are a shipper doing *that much* business with a single company, how much extra care are you going to give boxes with some guy connecting a circuit on the front of them? How much care are you going to give everyone else? It still comes down to human nature and the luck of thd draw unless you are a major part of the shippers revenues and this has been driven into your head? andy -- PGP Key Available at http://www.tigerteam.net/andy/pgp
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 08:31:58PM -0500, Andy Walden wrote: On 27 Aug 2003, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise. I can agree in principal, so long as we can designate a company that will execute proper company policy and do so *every* time. Unfortunately, for So your position is that the the existence of exceptions defines the probability and severity of damage? That 1% and 40% damage rates are in fact the same? $10 and $10,000? the purpose of the general well-being of our gear, we arrive back at generally blue collar, none-the-less, well paid, package handlers that individually define preferences for how they feel like doing it that day. I still fail to see why I would choose an organiztion with handles hundreds of times more packages, most weighing less and being less breakable than mine, over one with the specialized equipment to move it. An air cargo carrier with heavy-cargo equipment is still less likely to drop a pallet off a pallet jack than an express shipper with a handtruck. That their respective employees are equally lackadaisical doesn't mean all other factors have been equalized. Cargo/freight carriers, in general, are also aware that nearly all their cargo is of declared value, that the fragility warnings are more likely correct, and, perhaps most important, that the customers are far more likely to be filing damage claims against them. Fedex, et al, know that most of THEIR packages are paper and other sturdy items, and that their customers are much less likely to notice/claim damages. It's somewhat like card counting in blackjack. The odds are still quite poor, but that n% shift can make the difference of coming out of the casino money ahead or behind. Of course, good packing is critical either way. If you're going freight, palletize the items with proper/extra padding/packing material, stick some damage (shock and tipping) indicators on each side, and tuck an INSPECTION CHECKLIST for whomever is on the receiving end (not they won't have their own copy, just sends a sign to anyone handling it that someone's going to look when it arrives). If you're still determined to use a shipper, pack and pad it well, then pack that box into another padded/packed box. If you're desperate to get it moved ASAP, see if you can find a college intern you can pay to drive it. You'll want your own people to load it in and out of the car/van, but it'll be cheap and probably less risky than relying on the odds with a shipper. -- Ray Wong [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Ray Wong wrote: On Wed, Aug 27, 2003 at 08:31:58PM -0500, Andy Walden wrote: On 27 Aug 2003, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: Yes, but my point is that you can stack the deck in your favor by using a company that uses appropriate material handling devices to move every package if you are shipping packages that are heavy enough that moving them with a handtruck or by hand is possible-but-unwise. I can agree in principal, so long as we can designate a company that will execute proper company policy and do so *every* time. Unfortunately, for So your position is that the the existence of exceptions defines the probability and severity of damage? That 1% and 40% damage rates are in fact the same? $10 and $10,000? Just out of curiosity, What makes them less likely? I still think anyone driving a pallet for a living (or running a network for that matter;) could have very well had a binger the night before and still feeling the effects. the purpose of the general well-being of our gear, we arrive back at generally blue collar, none-the-less, well paid, package handlers that individually define preferences for how they feel like doing it that day. I still fail to see why I would choose an organiztion with handles hundreds of times more packages, most weighing less and being less breakable than mine, over one with the specialized equipment to move it. An air cargo carrier with heavy-cargo equipment is still less likely to drop a pallet off a pallet jack than an express shipper with a handtruck. That their respective employees are equally lackadaisical doesn't mean all other factors have been equalized. Cargo/freight carriers, in general, are also aware that nearly all their cargo is of declared value, that the fragility warnings are more likely correct, and, perhaps most important, that the customers are far more likely to be filing damage claims against them. Fedex, et al, know that most of THEIR packages are paper and other sturdy items, and that their customers are much less likely to notice/claim damages. What insight do you have into each shipper's package types and the insurance liability? It's somewhat like card counting in blackjack. The odds are still quite poor, but that n% shift can make the difference of coming out of the casino money ahead or behind. Maybe, but make sure you are correct when you place you bet. Of course, good packing is critical either way. If you're going freight, palletize the items with proper/extra padding/packing material, stick some damage (shock and tipping) indicators on each side, and tuck an INSPECTION CHECKLIST for whomever is on the receiving end (not they won't have their own copy, just sends a sign to anyone handling it that someone's going to look when it arrives). If you're still determined to use a shipper, pack and pad it well, then pack that box into another padded/packed box. If you're desperate to get it moved ASAP, see if you can find a college intern you can pay to drive it. You'll want your own people to load it in and out of the car/van, but it'll be cheap and probably less risky than relying on the odds with a shipper. 100% agreed. We are talking about bringing the entire process under your control in this case. Not always an option, but it certainly let's us feel better if the option is available. Unfortunately, in the real world, this isn't always an option. andy -- PGP Key Available at http://www.tigerteam.net/andy/pgp
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. Thanks again, Matt This probably is too small of a load for this but we have had good luck moving high value industrial control panels using the special cargo division of carriers like United Van Lines (http://www.unitedvanlines.com/spec/highvalue.htm?gid=9). Basically standard household moving trucks with crews dedicated to moving high value electronics, exhibits, art, etc. around the country.With a 2 person crew in the truck you can go a hell of a long ways in 2 days though the cost may not be exactly pretty. Mark Radabaugh Amplex (419) 720-3635
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
I still fail to see why I would choose an organiztion with handles hundreds of times more packages, most weighing less and being less breakable than mine, over one with the specialized equipment to move it. An air cargo carrier with heavy-cargo equipment is still less likely to drop a pallet off a pallet jack than an express shipper with a handtruck. That their respective employees are equally lackadaisical doesn't mean all other factors have been equalized. Fedex != Fedex Freight I have had fedex heavyweight boxes trashed, but have never had an issue with Fedex Freight. They show up with a liftgate or box truck, and a pallet jack. If your load is not palletized, they put it on one in the truck. I think Fedex Freight is a bit more in the heavy moving industry than Fedex, agreed. bill ps. Is this operational? :)
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
Speaking on Deep Background, the Press Secretary whispered:
Do you really mean counter to counter, or do you mean Real Air Freight
(like going to the United Air Cargo facility behind Gate Gourmet in
the same strip as FedEx out at IAD)? Real Air Freight (tm) rocks my
world. Going into the terminal to baggage claim and trying to find
someone to help you find your package is annoying.
Beware:
IMHE, Real Air Freight seldom comes with a guarantee that it
will travel on a given flight. Some time back, I REALLY REALLY
needed a 235# 20HP 480V motor moved CLE-ORD-MIA. I {well, you..}
paid United ~2X for Priority One and then found out 10 minutes
before its departure they'd bumped it off the ORD-MIA plane
because we gotta bunch of mail on that 727. [Note the USPS
tariff is very profitable to airlines..]
I pointed out that this was ALSO a USG shipment, and if it was not
at MIA at 1600 that day, United could deliver it to my end point,
as at that time I was leaving for South America, with motor,
on Eastern. [I was in fact going to get the motor there and
install it...]
The motor got there on time.
(I took it as checked baggage on Eastern; they could not figure
out how to charge me so it was the usual $40 flatrate per bag
for the international leg)
In conclusion:
Air freight may well be best but be sure it's a direct flight,
and know what you are paying for.
--
A host is a host from coast to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
no one will talk to a host that's close[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead20915-1433
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:56:09 PDT, nanog [EMAIL PROTECTED] said: ps. Is this operational? :) It's *NON* operational if they drop the gear. :) pgp0.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On 27 Aug 2003, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: N. Richard Solis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me. FedEx Heavy = pay a surcharge for heavy boxes, get it moved by a 120 pound delivery person with a handtruck rather than a pallet jack or other appropriate freight handling equipment... and dropped off the truck. My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507 and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back when I was at AboveNet: http://www.seastrom.com/fedex/ You aren't alone: http://www.16paws.com/FedEx/ matto [EMAIL PROTECTED]darwin Flowers on the razor wire/I know you're here/We are few/And far between/I was thinking about her skin/Love is a many splintered thing/Don't be afraid now/Just walk on in. #include disclaim.h
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
http://colofinder.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album18 Although this is a small item, I believe it wins the contest for Most thoroughly damaged shipment. :-) My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507 and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back when I was at AboveNet: http://www.seastrom.com/fedex/ You aren't alone: http://www.16paws.com/FedEx/
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
At 08:32 PM 8/27/2003, Eric Kuhnke wrote: http://colofinder.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album18 Although this is a small item, I believe it wins the contest for Most thoroughly damaged shipment. Oh dear! Yes, I do think you are the winner (so far). just me [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.16paws.com/FedEx/ The first damaged shipment at this URL was not correctly packed. You can't expect styrofoam peanuts *alone* to properly cushion and center a router in a box, even when you wrap the router itself in bubble wrap. The peanuts will shift, your router will end up abutting the box at one point or another, especially if the box is dropped (even if it's only dropped a short distance, such as can happen when it's being loaded and dropped/slid into place on a stack of boxes). That's why it's important to use the packing cases that the router came in from the manufacture (with the special styrofoam inserts) whenever possible, to properly center your router in the box. If you can't get the correct inserts, use inserts from some other shipment and cut them to fit. Create a ~3 inch layer below the router, add peanuts to fill in that layer between the makeshift inserts, set the router in the box, put more inserts next to the router (~3 inches on all sides) and fill the gaps with peanuts, put more inserts on top (~3 inches) and fill the gaps with peanuts. The inserts will hold the router in the *center* of the box and will prevent the peanuts from shifting enough to allow the inserts to shift and let the router move towards one of the box sides. And as you can see, the box itself should be large enough that you can put ~3+ inches of padding on all sides around the computer. That's why a 1u server typically comes in a box that's 8 to 10 inches thick. When you are shipping something heavy and fragile (in that it can be damaged if the box is dropped or if something is dropped on the box), you have a responsibility to properly pack the box to minimize damage. Don't count on insurance or the shipper to reimburse you if the item is damaged due to inadequate packing. Wrapping an item in bubble wrap and then placing it in the middle of styrofoam peanuts may work for some items, but a critical and expensive piece of computer hardware NEEDS more protection. Ebay vendors who specialize in selling fragile items use a process called double boxing. You wrap the item in bubble wrap, put it in a box with at *least* 1 inch of space all around the bubble wrap, with styrofoam peanuts filling that 1 inch gap. Then you place this box in a larger box with another 1 inch of space all around. Put 1 inch of peanuts in the larger box, place the smaller box on this layer and fill all around and on top with more peanuts, filling them in tightly enough to help prevent the box from shifting. So if you are packing an item that's 6 inches across, the smaller box is at least 8 inches, the larger box is at least 10 inches. For something heavy like a router, you need more than 2 inches of padding. Just some food for thought the next time you pack something for shipment. jc
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
Various war-story authors wrote: My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507 and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back when I was at AboveNet: http://www.seastrom.com/fedex/ You aren't alone: http://www.16paws.com/FedEx/ Although this is a small item, I believe it wins the contest for Most thoroughly damaged shipment. http://colofinder.net/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album18 While I sadly no longer have the image, sometimes words paint a more vivid picture... We had a 7505 which could have won, simultaneously, awards for: Most Blantant Disregard For Shipment Contents Least Excusible or Fathomable Damage Mode Failure To Note Packing Material Damage - Outstand Achievement Shipper Rules Weaseling - Special Mention Vendor Sudden Observance Of Fine Print One *Tough* Box We shipped the 7507 in its original packing material, including crimped straps, to a colo site. The site contact received it, signed for it, and discarded the packing material, all without noticing the damage. What damage, you ask? UPS had driven a forklift tine through its side. As in, straight in, through packing material, and *pierced* the chassis, right in the center of the side, ie into the card cage. Without the packing material, UPS wouldn't pay damages. Cisco wouldn't RMA the chassis. Not a pleasant situation at all. However, the router only had a couple of cards, which were installed (luckily) next to the power supplies, and at the opposite end from the gaping 3/4 x 2.5 hole. The site tech suggested seeing if it would boot. Sure enough, it did. And ran fine. And to the best of my knowledge, is still in service. It's a good thing the airflow wasn't too badly disrupted by the hole. It's the last time we used UPS... -- Brian Dickson Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cineclix.comTel : +1 604 688 2339
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
I've only shipped a few (moderately) heavy things on short notice in my career. Almost all of those involved FedEx because it was simple and hassle-free. If we're talking about shipping palettes of equipment then I agree with the use of air cargo. It wasn't entirely clear from the first post that a few palette's worth of equipment was what was being shipped. BTW, counter-to-counter service isn't always handled as luggage. In a few cases the package is hand-carried over to the cargo terminal where it's put on the next flight out. Then it's held for you at the destination, NOT put out on the conveyor belt. Most air cargo firms are set up to deal with companies that ship products as a part of their daily business. They usually dont do a whole lot of business with individual shippers. YMMV. I've used air, rail, and truck. IMHO, if you dont know a bill of lading from a hotel bill then an air cargo company isn't where you should start. WRT FedEx: just because your stuff got damaged, don't assume that they break everything they touch. There isn't a single business that I can think of that would tolerate a 40% loss rate on anything. FedEx could NOT stay in business long with those kinds of numbers. Nor could they keep an insurance carrier. Robert E. Seastrom wrote: N. Richard Solis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me. FedEx Heavy = pay a surcharge for heavy boxes, get it moved by a 120 pound delivery person with a handtruck rather than a pallet jack or other appropriate freight handling equipment... and dropped off the truck. My experience is a 40% damage rate when shipping Cisco 7507 and 7513 routers via FedEx Heavy. Here are some pictures from back when I was at AboveNet: http://www.seastrom.com/fedex/ You COULD do a counter to counter shipment via an airline cargo desk. That MIGHT be cheaper but you will still have to transport it from your spot to their pickup and back again on the other side. Counter-to-counter is the *last* way you would want to ship that sort of thing (handled as luggage on a flight, beat to hell by baggage handlers, and you get to retrieve it from baggage claim in an airport and schlep it all the way to your car). Far better (if you have access to trucks on both ends) is to ship it air freight. As you enter your favorite airport, follow the signs to Air Cargo, not the signs to the passenger terminal. When you find a place with a lot of places for 18-wheelers to back up to loading docks, and relatively few places for cars to park, you've found the right place. Matthew doesn't mention specific terminus points for the shipment, but based on whois information I'll make a wild guess that NYC is one end. JFK appears to be the big United installation (vs LGA and EWR), per info on www.unitedcargo.com - I tend to prefer them because of their long hours for pickup and delivery at IAD, which makes life convenient for me. :) If you need door-to-door service, there are numerous air freight forwarders who can handle palletized equipment and move it around the country/world in a timely fashion (and really, if you're talking about 300+ pounds of rackmount equipment, that's how you want to move it anyway). Two companies that I've used and been quite happy with the results are Cavalier International and Eagle Global Logistics. You may recognize Eagle's logo from stickers on previous shipments that you've gotten from major manufacturers who have stuff manufactured in the Far East. The Pros Know. http://www.eaglegl.com/ http://www.cavalier-intl.com/ ---Rob
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
N. Richard Solis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: BTW, counter-to-counter service isn't always handled as luggage. In a few cases the package is hand-carried over to the cargo terminal where it's put on the next flight out. Then it's held for you at the destination, NOT put out on the conveyor belt. Rarely (but it does happen on occasion) put on the conveyor belt, equally rarely hand-carried to the cargo building -- usually stuck in a marked cargo container on the ramp. The big problem that I have with counter-to-counter is that you have to park your car and hoof it into the terminal to retrieve the package at baggage claim. Always inconvenient (particularly on the return trip with a bunch of boxes) and often pricey if you park anywhere near the terminal. Good luck tracking down the baggage agent if a flight hasn't just come in, and have fun waiting in line with disgruntled travelers if one has. Compare and contrast to parking right outside of the air freight or FedEx station and walking 50 feet, then backing your pickup or u-haul truck (or unimog ;-)) up to dock 7 to have them fork the pallet in. Life can be as simple or as difficult as you want to make it. Most air cargo firms are set up to deal with companies that ship products as a part of their daily business. They usually dont do a whole lot of business with individual shippers. YMMV. I've used air, rail, and truck. IMHO, if you dont know a bill of lading from a hotel bill then an air cargo company isn't where you should start. For the average NANOG denizen, the most difficult part of filling out bills of lading and commercial invoices for the first time will be the gymnastics necessary to swallow his pride and politley ask the guy behind the counter for help determining what goes in one or two non-obviously-labeled spaces on the form. :) WRT FedEx: just because your stuff got damaged, don't assume that they break everything they touch. There isn't a single business that I can think of that would tolerate a 40% loss rate on anything. FedEx could NOT stay in business long with those kinds of numbers. Nor could they keep an insurance carrier. Certainly _we_ (the company I was working for at that point) didn't tolerate the 40% loss rate - we took our business elsewhere. Those pictures were taking to support my cast for giving them the final boot for large objects - such measures had been discussed on previous occasions. We still used FedEx for stuff that could be carried under one arm, and even on one or two occasions for stuff that was sufficiently large as to discourage even the most intrepid soul from trying to move it without a pallet jack. Not, though, for the stuff in the middle which they showed themselves to be uniquely incompetent to handle, which explains why our mae-east router (also a 7513 at the time) ended up with 1800nofedex as an enable password for a while. ---Rob
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003, Matthew Zito wrote: I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. FedEx, or Forward Air. FedEx - Door-to-door, reliable, easy to do business with. Forward Air - Terminal to terminal. You deliver it to their facility near an airport, they deliver it to a terminal near the destination airport. This means that you need guys and a truck at both ends. A bit more trouble than FedEx to do business with. You'll typically need to palletize your gear. http://www.fedex.com/ http://www.forwardair.com/ -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Administration - [EMAIL PROTECTED] WestNet: Connecting you to the planet. 805 884-6323 WB6RDV NetLojix Communications, Inc. - http://www.netlojix.com/
RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
FWIW we've had FedEx destroy hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear in transit (all shipped with full insurance and properly packed). They're extremely slow to pay their insurance claims on large amounts, as well. This has happened to us at least 5 times so far - cross-country, cross-state, and international. Choose carefully. -Original Message- From: N. Richard Solis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:27 PM To: Matthew Zito Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me. You COULD do a counter to counter shipment via an airline cargo desk. That MIGHT be cheaper but you will still have to transport it from your spot to their pickup and back again on the other side. Rail is not an option because it is across country. Ground/Highway is not an option because it is across country. Your only choice is by air. Use FedEx. Life is short. -Richard Matthew Zito wrote: Hello, I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. Thanks again, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
We've shipped (using Fedex International Freight) 300+lb pallets of Sun gear without any untoward delays or problems. Multiple times. The pricing was excellent and the service (once they knew freight was involved) was fine. I think bad experiences with fedex have more to do with the statistical probability of a problem occurring over x million deliveries rather than a problem with the vendor itself. Deepak Jain AiNET -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? Hello, I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. Thanks again, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
Well I recieved lots of computer hardware including laptops/desktops with fedex when I was living in Turkey from USA without any problem, 300 pounds is quite heavy and I assume this is a couple of thousands computer gear so the best would be fedex, imho. Mehmet Akcin - Original Message - From: Temkin, David [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'N. Richard Solis' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Matthew Zito [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:53 PM Subject: RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? FWIW we've had FedEx destroy hundreds of thousands of dollars of gear in transit (all shipped with full insurance and properly packed). They're extremely slow to pay their insurance claims on large amounts, as well. This has happened to us at least 5 times so far - cross-country, cross-state, and international. Choose carefully. -Original Message- From: N. Richard Solis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:27 PM To: Matthew Zito Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? FedEx will be your best bet. Trust me. You COULD do a counter to counter shipment via an airline cargo desk. That MIGHT be cheaper but you will still have to transport it from your spot to their pickup and back again on the other side. Rail is not an option because it is across country. Ground/Highway is not an option because it is across country. Your only choice is by air. Use FedEx. Life is short. -Richard Matthew Zito wrote: Hello, I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. Thanks again, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
I've shipped LOTS of heavy datacenter gear via FedEX cross countryb4 without problems as well. -Jim -Original Message- From: Deepak Jain [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 3:08 PM To: Matthew Zito; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? We've shipped (using Fedex International Freight) 300+lb pallets of Sun gear without any untoward delays or problems. Multiple times. The pricing was excellent and the service (once they knew freight was involved) was fine. I think bad experiences with fedex have more to do with the statistical probability of a problem occurring over x million deliveries rather than a problem with the vendor itself. Deepak Jain AiNET -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 2:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? Hello, I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. Thanks again, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
At 11:19 AM 8/27/2003, Matthew Zito wrote: I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Is the problem moving them ASAP or moving them with the least delay while in transit? If you have enough time to buy airplane tickets at a reasonable rate it can often be more cost effective to fly someone to pull the gear and fly with the boxes. I pulled and moved a rack full of servers in and out of colos quite a few times, flying out with new equipment and bringing the old equipment back, or flying out with empty boxes and packing the equipment in the right boxes (with the right foam inserts etc.) and bringing them back. You can save quite a bit by not having to pay remote hands at the other end to pull and pack the gear. I believe that most airlines allow you 3 items of checked luggage up to 70 lbs at no additional charge. Extra checked items were ~$50 per box, and occasionally ~$50 extra if the box is overweight. I had a carry-on for my personal needs (clothes, laptop). If you need a rental car, get an SUV and get one where the rear deck folds down flat. The largest passenger SUVs (like a Lincoln or Ford) sometimes have a rear seat that sits on top of the rear deck and can NOT be removed, check this when making reservations as it's a big PITA to put boxes in and over this lump. I highly recommend a Durango instead. Every time I shipped boxes instead of flew with them there were shipping delays. *Especially* when going thru international boundaries. When I took boxes with me thru customs as checked luggage, no delays. If the computers you need to move are going to or from the west coast, I'm available if you want to hire someone to do this, if you can't spare a person to fly. Email off-list. HTH jc
RE: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear?
I have used Federal Express to great effect in the past. I have tended to stay away from Airborne because the local people here in Dallas didn't know not to turn printers full of toner on their sides. Since Airborne packed them, I felt they should not have been full of toner, but that is another story! Chris -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Zito Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 1:19 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Cross-country shipping of large network/computer gear? Hello, I was wondering if anyone could provide any advice or suggestions on shipping heavy/bulky equipment (~300 pounds, about a half-rack worth of gear) on short notice cross-country? We're obviously looking to minimize cost, but realistically it can't be in transit for more than two days. Are there any companies or methods people would recommend? Thanks in advance for the help. Thanks again, Matt -- Matthew Zito GridApp Systems Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cell: 646-220-3551 Phone: 212-358-8211 x 359 http://www.gridapp.com
