Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mel Beckman]

Hertz car rental has the #1 product in its industry, even its major competitor 
Avis agrees (“We’re number two“:-), and yet Hertz stock is plunging towards 
zero even as we speak. Stock price has nothing to do with product quality. 
Theranos, for example, had a completely fictional product, yet it stock price 
skyrocketed.

Stock price is simply a way of measuring the perceived market value of a 
company‘s earning potential.

 -mel beckman

On May 26, 2020, at 11:50 PM, Etienne-Victor Depasquale  wrote:


" stock value is a terribly inaccurate way to measure if a company is 
"excelling."  "

That requires qualification.

Stock value might be a "terribly inaccurate way" in the short term but in the 
long term, it reflects whether you have a marketable product or not.

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:20 PM Mike Hammett 
mailto:na...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
Kind of OT for NANOG, but stock value is a terribly inaccurate way to measure 
if a company is "excelling." Wall Street knows nothing of how to run a company, 
prioritizing quarterly profit over long-term success. Not hiring additional 
staff makes your quarterly numbers look good, but it isn't good for the 
long-term attractiveness of your product. A good business doesn't just target 
new suckers, they also keep existing customers happy. Eventually you run out of 
suckers and all you have is a bunch of burned bridges in your wake.

I subscribe to several feature requests in their community that are YEARS old 
with little to no response from Ubiquiti. Some of them can't be hard for 
Ubiquiti to implement because they're running on the exact same hardware and 
underlying OS and some of them you can configure in JSON files, but they just 
aren't available in the GUI. They just don't care. They'd rather push out 
Flavor Flav cameras or lighting.

They came out with a new product in a particular family and opened a new 
feature request section for it. I commented something similar to, "Start with 
feature parity with the existing product, then start working through the years 
of feature requests there. Come back when you're done."


This doesn't just afflict equipment manufacturers. Network operators are in the 
same boat. Both groups have companies profiting hundreds of millions or 
billions of dollars every quarter, can't spare a few hundred grand a year for a 
couple dev-ops guys to just bang out automation or features. Yes, I understand 
you rarely get twice the work from twice the people, but there are 
opportunities to make this better.





-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]

From: "Matt Hoppes" 
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>>
To: "Mike Hammett" mailto:na...@ics-il.net>>
Cc: "NANOG list" mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 8:28:52 AM
Subject: Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

Except, you could argue they are exceling.  Stocks are going up up up,
and folks buy the product.

I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the
quarterly calls.

On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are
> no reasonable alternatives.
>
> Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD.
>
> A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't
> hire enough people in the right areas to really excel.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> --

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Etienne-Victor Depasquale]

" stock value is a terribly inaccurate way to measure if a company is
"excelling."  "

That requires qualification.

Stock value might be a "terribly inaccurate way" in the short term but in
the long term, it reflects whether you have a marketable product or not.

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:20 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Kind of OT for NANOG, but stock value is a terribly inaccurate way to
> measure if a company is "excelling." Wall Street knows nothing of how to
> run a company, prioritizing quarterly profit over long-term success. Not
> hiring additional staff makes your quarterly numbers look good, but it
> isn't good for the long-term attractiveness of your product. A good
> business doesn't just target new suckers, they also keep existing customers
> happy. Eventually you run out of suckers and all you have is a bunch of
> burned bridges in your wake.
>
> I subscribe to several feature requests in their community that are YEARS
> old with little to no response from Ubiquiti. Some of them can't be hard
> for Ubiquiti to implement because they're running on the exact same
> hardware and underlying OS and some of them you can configure in JSON
> files, but they just aren't available in the GUI. They just don't care.
> They'd rather push out Flavor Flav cameras or lighting.
>
> They came out with a new product in a particular family and opened a new
> feature request section for it. I commented something similar to, "Start
> with feature parity with the existing product, then start working through
> the years of feature requests there. Come back when you're done."
>
>
> This doesn't just afflict equipment manufacturers. Network operators are
> in the same boat. Both groups have companies profiting hundreds of millions
> or billions of dollars every quarter, can't spare a few hundred grand a
> year for a couple dev-ops guys to just bang out automation or features.
> Yes, I understand you rarely get twice the work from twice the people, but
> there are opportunities to make this better.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *Cc: *"NANOG list" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 8:28:52 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
>
> Except, you could argue they are exceling.  Stocks are going up up up,
> and folks buy the product.
>
> I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the
> quarterly calls.
>
> On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are
> > no reasonable alternatives.
> >
> > Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD.
> >
> > A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't
> > hire enough people in the right areas to really excel.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > <
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> > 
> > *From: *"Ben P" 
> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> > *Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list" 
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
> >
> > Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.
> >
> > Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable
> > replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram
> > cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My
> > network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic
> cloud.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but
> > their responsiveness and customer support have been declining over
> > the last five years.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike 

Re: Did I miss a problem: FCC and CISA stress need for access during pandemic

[Bill Woodcock]

> On May 27, 2020, at 3:40 AM, Sean Donelan  wrote:
> I have not heard of any problems with access for ISP and communications 
> workers in any U.S. state or locality during the pandemic.
> Did I miss a big problem requiring the FCC chairman and CISA Director send a 
> letter?

That was one of the outcomes of the OECD recommendations to member governments 
on the Internet during the pandemic.  As you may recall, I emailed you, and 
many other members of our community, on March 23, soliciting input for this 
document:

   
http://www.oecd.org/coronavirus/policy-responses/keeping-the-internet-up-and-running-in-times-of-crisis-4017c4c9/

The specific recommendation regarding prioritized access came from several of 
the people I mailed, and was of particular concern to global backbone 
operators. Whether you think that particular recommendation is a high priority 
or not, I’d chalk this up as a successful exercise of our community providing 
input to government and having government take it seriously and act upon it in 
the way that we requested them to.  Exercising that channel periodically, to 
keep government thinking of that as normal, would be good.

There’s no provable causality chain here, but it was a concern, we spoke, they 
listened, and the problem we were concerned with did not become an issue, so 
that’s a success.  If only we could do that with public health, we’d be in 
great shape.

   -Bill




-Bill



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP

RE: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Phil Lavin]

> Even the big guys like Juniper fail at basic functionality. Our brand new 
> MX204 fails to select the correct source address when doing ARP requests and 
> apparently that is a known will not fix.

Apparently EX2300/EX3400 doesn't support STP when using Virtual Chassis and 
QFX51XX don't support firewall filters when using VXLAN. Both cannot/will not 
fix. How I long to be in the spend category that makes vendors care about 
fundamental issues.

Re: Did I miss a problem: FCC and CISA stress need for access during pandemic

[Benson Schliesser via NANOG]

Good question -

Of the listed “key points” the first and second, regarding designation as
essential employees, has been explicitly included in the several state and
county orders that I’ve personally read. By no means a complete survey, but
at least some locales are aware of the issue.

The only one that I’ve heard is (anecdotally) a problem is the last one,
regarding permits. E.g. in some cases state, county, and/or local
permitting offices have been operating slower than usual or simply closed.
In some cases because they’re reliant on agents, inspectors, etc, who
aren’t considered essential...

But this seems like more of an issue for new deployments (e.g. 5G masts)
rather than security and/or maintaining existing infrastructure. Not to
diminish the importance of new infrastructure, but it’s a mixed bag - some
of it is about connecting people in need, some of it is driven
predominantly by business / competitive concerns.

I’d be interested to hear others’ experiences if they can illuminate more.

Thanks,
- Benson


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 21:41 Sean Donelan  wrote:

>
> I have not heard of any problems with access for ISP and communications
> workers in any U.S. state or locality during the pandemic.
>
> Did I miss a big problem requiring the FCC chairman and CISA Director send
> a letter?
>
>
>
>
> https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-cisa-stress-need-communications-industry-access-resources-0
>
>
> Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai and the Cybersecurity
> and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Director Christopher Krebs
> today sent a letter to the nation’s governors encouraging them to provide
> necessary access and resources to the communications workers helping to
> keep Americans connected during the COVID-19 pandemic.
>
> [...]
>
> The letter includes these key points:
> - Highlights recent guidance from CISA related to the essential critical
> infrastructure workforce and 911 centers during the pandemic
> - Asks that certain communications industry entities and personnel be
> declared essential to the pandemic response and afforded all appropriate
> access and resources
> - Asks that states consider prioritizing the distribution of personal
> protective equipment to communications personnel when available
> - Underscores the role of various communications industry personnel to
> supporting consumers’ remote emergency communications needs
> - Encourages industry and government to work together to prioritize and
> complete communications infrastructure and next generation 911 projects
> - Calls on states to facilitate the maintenance, repair, and provisioning
> of communications infrastructure and services by providing online access
> to relevant government functions, such as the permitting process, where
> not already available electronically.
>

Did I miss a problem: FCC and CISA stress need for access during pandemic

[Sean Donelan]

I have not heard of any problems with access for ISP and communications 
workers in any U.S. state or locality during the pandemic.


Did I miss a big problem requiring the FCC chairman and CISA Director send 
a letter?




https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-cisa-stress-need-communications-industry-access-resources-0


Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai and the Cybersecurity 
and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Director Christopher Krebs
today sent a letter to the nation’s governors encouraging them to provide 
necessary access and resources to the communications workers helping to 
keep Americans connected during the COVID-19 pandemic.


[...]

The letter includes these key points:
- Highlights recent guidance from CISA related to the essential critical 
infrastructure workforce and 911 centers during the pandemic
- Asks that certain communications industry entities and personnel be 
declared essential to the pandemic response and afforded all appropriate 
access and resources
- Asks that states consider prioritizing the distribution of personal 
protective equipment to communications personnel when available
- Underscores the role of various communications industry personnel to 
supporting consumers’ remote emergency communications needs
- Encourages industry and government to work together to prioritize and 
complete communications infrastructure and next generation 911 projects
- Calls on states to facilitate the maintenance, repair, and provisioning 
of communications infrastructure and services by providing online access 
to relevant government functions, such as the permitting process, where 
not already available electronically.

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Baldur Norddahl]

tir. 26. maj 2020 17.04 skrev Tom Beecher :

> Mostly agree, but the "your pet bug" argument has validity.
>
> When the thing that isn't working is basic functionality, (e.g. IPv6) ,
> there is no excuse for that not to work, and a company that tries to spin
> 'basic functionality" as "feature request" tends to dig their own grave.
>

Even the big guys like Juniper fail at basic functionality. Our brand new
MX204 fails to select the correct source address when doing ARP requests
and apparently that is a known will not fix.

Re: [External] Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Josh Luthman]

What are you looking for OP?  If it's a vulnerability you should have no
problem with the provided link.  If it's something else, let us know.

Most of my contacts have left there but there is still someone I can get
you in touch with.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 2:21 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> All of the traditional POCs are gone, most of them not replaced. There may
> not be anywhere to send the OP, other than to wish them luck on the forums.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Hunter Fuller" 
> *Cc: *"NANOG list" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 11:30:03 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [External] Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
>
> This thread has taken a very NANOG turn. Whether the company has or
> hasn't fallen apart, I'm sure someone is still there to contact.
>
> Some say the poster is still looking for a contact at Ubiquiti to this
> day...
>
> --
> Hunter Fuller (they)
> Router Jockey
> VBH Annex B-5
> +1 256 824 5331
>
> Office of Information Technology
> The University of Alabama in Huntsville
> Network Engineering
>
>

NANOG 79 - Lightning Talks submissions extended to 5/31

[Vincent Celindro]

Hello NANOG community,
The Program Committee has extended the deadline to submit Lightning Talks
to May 31st 2020 10pm EDT.

Lightning Talks will be presented virtually on Tuesday June 2nd 2020.

A lightning talk is a very short presentation/speech by any attendee on any
topic relevant to the NANOG audience. These are limited to ten minutes;
this will be strictly enforced. If you have a topic that's timely and
interesting, we encourage you to consider presenting it.
Please submit an abstract via https://www.nanog.org/meetings/submit-
lightning-talk.
You will be notified if you have been selected on Monday June 1st.

If you have any questions please contact nano...@nanog.org.

Come share your ideas and insights.

Thank You,

Vincent Celindro
NANOG - Program Committee Chair

Re: [External] Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mike Hammett]

All of the traditional POCs are gone, most of them not replaced. There may not 
be anywhere to send the OP, other than to wish them luck on the forums. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Hunter Fuller"  
Cc: "NANOG list"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 11:30:03 AM 
Subject: Re: [External] Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 

This thread has taken a very NANOG turn. Whether the company has or 
hasn't fallen apart, I'm sure someone is still there to contact. 

Some say the poster is still looking for a contact at Ubiquiti to this day... 

-- 
Hunter Fuller (they) 
Router Jockey 
VBH Annex B-5 
+1 256 824 5331 

Office of Information Technology 
The University of Alabama in Huntsville 
Network Engineering 

How to Make the Most of a Virtual Conference

[NANOG Marketing]

*Ten tips from Angela Reyna of Kentik*

“We’re all longing for more connected times with less distance. For now,
the best thing we can do is be present, and make the most of these virtual
opportunities."

While nothing can totally replace the experience of gathering IRL, virtual
conferences are still an amazing way to share, discover, and connect with
your community. That’s why we love these tips for making the most of any
virtual conference, shared with us by Angela Reyna, Senior Marketing
Manager at Kentik — up now, on NANOG Stories.

Read the Feature

Re: [External] Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Hunter Fuller]

This thread has taken a very NANOG turn. Whether the company has or
hasn't fallen apart, I'm sure someone is still there to contact.

Some say the poster is still looking for a contact at Ubiquiti to this day...

--
Hunter Fuller (they)
Router Jockey
VBH Annex B-5
+1 256 824 5331

Office of Information Technology
The University of Alabama in Huntsville
Network Engineering

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Joe Greco]

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 02:44:40PM +, Mel Beckman wrote:
> JG, 
> 
> I empathize with your BGP problems. I???ve had problems with BGP 
> on anything other than Cisco for my entire networking life. It???s 
> just the nature of the beast, although that???s not an excuse for
> ubiquity not fixing it.
> 
> But what is an excuse is market demand. How many people do you 
> think speak BGP on ubiquiti routers? I know ubiquiti, like every 
> company, likes to claim that they do everything. But no company 
> can do everything, so you have to find out where their strengths 
> are and avoid their weaknesses.

Well, my point was more about the nature of software (it's fixable!)
and the "market pressures deter edge case bux fixes" argument which
appears to be a fallacy if you, as a hardware vendor, have paid a 
license for some professionally developed product, like ZebOS.

ZebOS is the commercial offspring of Zebra, which forked Quagga,
which forked FRR.  I have minor complaints about all of them, but
the open source developers have generally done well over the years.

ZebOS is integrated into a variety of networking devices.  A quick
Google suggests this includes F5, SonicWall, Ubiquiti, Fortinet,
and other devices.

Ubiquiti produced its EdgeRouter Lite back in late 2012, able to do
a million PPS on a $100 platform, so there's little doubt about 
their ability to create devices that do "hardware assisted" software
packet routing.  I was kinda hoping that the marriage of their 
hardware and ZebOS would result in a usable product.  I am pretty
sure that's what Ubiquiti expected to happen, so that they would not 
need to worry about the finer points of arcane routing protocols.

I don't really have a need to do a bazillion PPS.  There's still an
Ascend GRF 400 here, and having passed the 150K routes mark, it now
serves to lift my office laser printer to a better height.  It's
also part of why I try to avoid buying the hardware routers.  There's
no budget for it and hardware routers generally provide far more
router than is needed here.

> Personally, I always put a pair of stacked Cisco layer3 switches 
> at the edge of every BGP network. This gives me reliable, redundant 
> BGP peering that operates at wire speed and can still carry full 
> backbone tables. Use Cisco hardware let me do this for less money 
> then I would pay for a buggy ubiquiti router.

[assuming that was supposed to be "Used Cisco hardware"]

Veering way off topic here, I wasn't aware that there were layer 3
stackable Cisco switches that could handle full BGP tables.  The
Ubiquiti Infinity is $1,800.  I am curious what you're using.  I
have nothing against used hardware.

... JG
-- 
Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way
through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG]

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:44 AM Mel Beckman  wrote:

> Your or my pet bug may never get fixed, based on market demand.
>

Gonna have to disagree with you there.
I'm not sure if it was a cashflow issue or what, but they launched the
Unifi Dream Machine Pro after a very short testing period.
A client bought two thinking they could replace their office firewall with
it.
There were *so* many show-stopping issues with the product, it was
basically a brick for ~4 months.
You couldn't configure the device unless it had a non RFC-1918 address on
its WAN interface.  It crashed frequently both due to software bugs and
memory usage. Software updates frequently b0rked things...and
backup/restore was broken.  Interfaces would disconnect and reconnect for
~30 seconds several times per hour.  I tested it for my client and had a
list of ~15 show-stopper bugs that prevented us from putting it into
production.

Thankfully they were "quick" to fix it.  It's been ~3 months and all the
show-stoppers seem to be resolved.  Things like logging and graphing are
still broken, but that doesn't stop internet access.

Regardless, they shouldn't have pushed a completely broken device out the
door as being ready for public sale.  It should still be in beta today in
my opinion.

-A

Re: Network issues in Israel/Middle East

[John Von Essen]

Yeah, this is bad default GeoDNS logic. I'm overriding Israel now to use Europe 
now, and things are much better.

-John


> On May 26, 2020, at 11:06 AM, Dovid Bender  wrote:
> 
> John,
> 
> As others have mentioned you should be going to Europe we have a POP in Rosh 
> Hayain, IL and in Nicosia, CY. Both POP's backup to AWS Ireland. Almost all 
> of your traffic in IL is going to go through Western Europe so it makes no 
> sense to send it to India. Israel does not have any peering with its 
> neighbors.
> 
> I just did some tests from Bezeq in Petah Tiqwa
> 
> AWS Ireland
> [root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.248.0.0
> PING 3.248.0.0 (3.248.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from 3.248.0.0 : icmp_seq=1 ttl=223 time=69.0 ms
> 64 bytes from 3.248.0.0 : icmp_seq=2 ttl=223 time=69.1 ms
> ^C
> 
> AWS Virginia
> [root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.80.0.0
> PING 3.80.0.0 (3.80.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from 3.80.0.0 : icmp_seq=1 ttl=238 time=149 ms
> 64 bytes from 3.80.0.0 : icmp_seq=2 ttl=238 time=149 ms
> ^C
> 
> AWS Mumbai
> [root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.6.0.0
> PING 3.6.0.0 (3.6.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from 3.6.0.0 : icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=168 ms
> 64 bytes from 3.6.0.0 : icmp_seq=2 ttl=233 time=168 ms
> ^C
> 
> AWS Milan
> [root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 15.161.0.254
> PING 15.161.0.254 (15.161.0.254) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from 15.161.0.254 : icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 
> time=58.5 ms
> 64 bytes from 15.161.0.254 : icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 
> time=58.4 ms
> ^C
> 
> AWS London
> [root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.8.0.0
> PING 3.8.0.0 (3.8.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from 3.8.0.0 : icmp_seq=1 ttl=229 time=57.2 ms
> 64 bytes from 3.8.0.0 : icmp_seq=2 ttl=229 time=57.2 ms
> ^C
> 
> AWS Frankfurt
> [root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.120.0.0 
> PING 3.120.0.0 (3.120.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
> 64 bytes from 3.120.0.0 : icmp_seq=1 ttl=235 time=50.7 ms
> 64 bytes from 3.120.0.0 : icmp_seq=2 ttl=235 time=50.7 ms
> ^C
> 
> 
> It seems like you're better off going to the US over going to Mumbai!
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 3:00 PM John Von Essen  > wrote:
> I know this is outside the scope of “North America”, but has anyone else been 
> fielding more issues related to network health/congestion in the middle east, 
> specifically Israel?
> 
> Our users in Israel are primarily served from India-based resources 
> (AWS/Azure), both of which have cloud capacity issues in India that I’m aware 
> of.
> 
> Also, the majority of our users in Israel that have been reporting slowness 
> seem to be mostly behind the ISP Bezeq. If we force them to route to Ireland 
> (which is technically farther away form a latency standpoint) things are much 
> better, so I’m wondering if just Bezeq (or everyone in Israel) is just 
> experiencing 3rd party-related network congestion to Mumbai.
> 
> Thanks
> John
> 
> 

Re: Network issues in Israel/Middle East

[Dovid Bender]

John,

As others have mentioned you should be going to Europe we have a POP in
Rosh Hayain, IL and in Nicosia, CY. Both POP's backup to AWS Ireland.
Almost all of your traffic in IL is going to go through Western Europe so
it makes no sense to send it to India. Israel does not have any peering
with its neighbors.

I just did some tests from Bezeq in Petah Tiqwa

AWS Ireland
[root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.248.0.0
PING 3.248.0.0 (3.248.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 3.248.0.0: icmp_seq=1 ttl=223 time=69.0 ms
64 bytes from 3.248.0.0: icmp_seq=2 ttl=223 time=69.1 ms
^C

AWS Virginia
[root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.80.0.0
PING 3.80.0.0 (3.80.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 3.80.0.0: icmp_seq=1 ttl=238 time=149 ms
64 bytes from 3.80.0.0: icmp_seq=2 ttl=238 time=149 ms
^C

AWS Mumbai
[root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.6.0.0
PING 3.6.0.0 (3.6.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 3.6.0.0: icmp_seq=1 ttl=233 time=168 ms
64 bytes from 3.6.0.0: icmp_seq=2 ttl=233 time=168 ms
^C

AWS Milan
[root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 15.161.0.254
PING 15.161.0.254 (15.161.0.254) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 15.161.0.254: icmp_seq=1 ttl=239 time=58.5 ms
64 bytes from 15.161.0.254: icmp_seq=2 ttl=239 time=58.4 ms
^C

AWS London
[root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.8.0.0
PING 3.8.0.0 (3.8.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 3.8.0.0: icmp_seq=1 ttl=229 time=57.2 ms
64 bytes from 3.8.0.0: icmp_seq=2 ttl=229 time=57.2 ms
^C

AWS Frankfurt
[root@cust-219-83-123 ~]# ping 3.120.0.0
PING 3.120.0.0 (3.120.0.0) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 3.120.0.0: icmp_seq=1 ttl=235 time=50.7 ms
64 bytes from 3.120.0.0: icmp_seq=2 ttl=235 time=50.7 ms
^C


It seems like you're better off going to the US over going to Mumbai!



On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 3:00 PM John Von Essen  wrote:

> I know this is outside the scope of “North America”, but has anyone else
> been fielding more issues related to network health/congestion in the
> middle east, specifically Israel?
>
> Our users in Israel are primarily served from India-based resources
> (AWS/Azure), both of which have cloud capacity issues in India that I’m
> aware of.
>
> Also, the majority of our users in Israel that have been reporting
> slowness seem to be mostly behind the ISP Bezeq. If we force them to route
> to Ireland (which is technically farther away form a latency standpoint)
> things are much better, so I’m wondering if just Bezeq (or everyone in
> Israel) is just experiencing 3rd party-related network congestion to Mumbai.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Tom Beecher]

Mostly agree, but the "your pet bug" argument has validity.

When the thing that isn't working is basic functionality, (e.g. IPv6) ,
there is no excuse for that not to work, and a company that tries to spin
'basic functionality" as "feature request" tends to dig their own grave.

But many, many bugs are a result of a Large Spending Companies that told a
vendor "implement this thing or I won't buy from you anymore". Sometimes
that thing is a good feature that advances the entire industry, and
sometimes that thing is a bad feature that only helps their situation and
they are simply throwing money to make it someone else's problem.

This is why we see the historical pattern. Vendor enters the space and they
are great! Over some years their code bloats all to hell and turns into
buggy garbage because they are spending 90% of their time supporting 10% of
the features from 5% of their customers because they spend the most money.
Eventually someone starts something new and enters the space and here we go
again. Sound familiar?

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 10:45 AM Mike Bolitho  wrote:

> >>Your or my pet bug may never get fixed, based on market demand. That’s
> simply capitalism, not low quality.
>
> No, that's low quality, full stop. Bugs need to be fixed in software that
> you are selling. I bought a product and I expect it to work. If they are
> going to tout themselves as enterprise grade, which they do (*Narrator:
> They're not*), then they need to fix bugs in their production software.
>
> - Mike Bolitho
>
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:44 AM Mel Beckman  wrote:
>
>> I deploy Ubiquiti equipment quite a bit, both in WLANs and WISP
>> distribution networks. It’s excellent quality at a dirt cheap price. As
>> with all software-based products, there will be bugs. Your or my pet bug
>> may never get fixed, based on market demand. That’s simply capitalism, not
>> low quality. None of us can afford to pay for perfection, because it would
>> never ship.
>>
>> I deployed 400 HP-Aruba APs at SFO, and that installation requires a
>> full-time network engineer to manage the system. I’ve deployed many more
>> times that in Unifi APs and they run perfectly well with only periodic
>> software updates to accommodate new client device types. Unifi is 75%
>> cheaper than Aruba, for essentially the same result.
>>
>>  -mel
>>
>> > On May 26, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > Except, you could argue they are exceling.  Stocks are going up up up,
>> and folks buy the product.
>> >
>> > I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the
>> quarterly calls.
>> >
>> >> On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> >> That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are
>> no reasonable alternatives.
>> >> Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD.
>> >> A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't
>> hire enough people in the right areas to really excel.
>> >> -
>> >> Mike Hammett
>> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> >> <
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> >> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> >> <
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
>> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> >> The Brothers WISP 
>> >> <
>> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> >>
>> 
>> >> *From: *"Ben P" 
>> >> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
>> >> *Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list" 
>> >> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM
>> >> *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
>> >> Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.
>> >> Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a
>> suitable replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram
>> cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My
>> network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud.
>> >>On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett > >>> wrote:
>> >>The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but
>> >>their responsiveness and customer support have been declining over
>> >>the last five years.
>> >>-
>> >>Mike Hammett
>> >>Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> >><
>> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
>> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
>> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> >>Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> >><
>> https://ww

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Cummings, Chris]

For the carrier side of things Mikrotik is a fairly standard replacement for 
UBNT stuff. 

—
chris


From: NANOG  on behalf of Ben 
Date: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 09:55
To: NANOG list 
Subject: Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.

Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable 
replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram cloud-management 
down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My network, my control, not 
under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud.


On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett  wrote:

The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but their 
responsiveness and customer support have been declining over the last five 
years.


-
Mike Hammett
https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://www.ics-il.com/&c=E,1,2cRoIhFvqTaan4SPyr09-SmXgOsZJQqCFi2FwhWYV9ctXyEZWBO-t0rHLwvNsOiA5SeA36NyXcXP_2fSpJbMxiprDZ9YWqKnpO9ZovATGA,,&typo=1

https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://www.midwest-ix.com/&c=E,1,M3kKzgV7y8ieeU8fd8NVQHbI9DhVc8yccaJyiS8ZXknqE1kDSQeehG8tE_4CzbJ4fsgKnMTSap_waGTIszwk6BOFZIswbKFfDndDlue95e6sf8_IFV2cbQ,,&typo=1

https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/&c=E,1,dJU5lLTp7m78fqlcHBlm7fYrKz0Euf61wdKso7F8_yZvID2DEKRxAU4LlovT3UdfKKlrdIkw5QDN-uu-d2e69x8R3JOq7QxDis8It6FlO2sORiqExN7Y&typo=1


From: "j k" 
To: "NANOG list" 
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM
Subject: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a pattern I don't 
like. 


Joe Klein 
"inveniet viam, aut faciet" --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, Scene 1)
"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Ben]

Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.

Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable 
replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram cloud-management 
down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My network, my control, not 
under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud.

> On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but their 
> responsiveness and customer support have been declining over the last five 
> years.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>   
> 
> From: "j k" 
> To: "NANOG list" 
> Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM
> Subject: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
> 
> Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a pattern I 
> don't like.
> 
> Joe Klein 
> "inveniet viam, aut faciet" --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, Scene 1)
> "I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela

Re: Network issues in Israel/Middle East

[Arie Vayner]

Most (if not all) of Israel's capacity is served from Europe. There is no
real reason to serve users in Israel from India... You should most likely
be using instances in Frankfurt or London for best results.

On Mon, May 25, 2020, 12:46 Martijn Schmidt via NANOG 
wrote:

> Hey John,
>
> Do you have some background information about how Dublin is "technically
> farther away" than Mumbai? Is the latency actually better in the middle of
> the night? I'm genuinely curious, and I'll explain the reason why.. :)
>
> The shortest submarine route to Mumbai would probably be Mednautilus to
> Greece, hope you can crossconnect to AAE-1 there, and then through Egypt,
> around the Arabian Peninsula, to Mumbai. All in all ~7800km if not more,
> and that's a pretty uncommon path - you may have to go all the way to Italy
> or even Marseille to do the crossconnect.
>
> Compared to using let's say Jonah to connect to Italy for ~2300km,
> terrestrial to the western UK via the Channel tunnel for another ~2500km,
> take UK to Ireland over let's say Solas for ~230km, and the last stretch to
> Dublin for ~180km. All in all ~5200km, and that's all pretty common routing
> for the Internet.
>
> Then the last option could be a terrestrial path straight through the
> Arabian peninsula and using a submarine cable for the last stretch to
> Mumbai, which may technically be the shortest distance with ~4500km
> covered.. but let's just say that there is a reason why Google's Blue-Raman
> cable will be a very impressive achievement if/when it goes live:
> https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/.premium-israel-to-play-key-role-in-giant-google-fiber-optic-cable-project-1.8764470
>
> Best regards,
> Martijn
> --
> *From:* NANOG  on behalf of John Von Essen <
> j...@essenz.com>
> *Sent:* 25 May 2020 20:59
> *To:* NANOG Operators' Group 
> *Subject:* Network issues in Israel/Middle East
>
> I know this is outside the scope of “North America”, but has anyone else
> been fielding more issues related to network health/congestion in the
> middle east, specifically Israel?
>
> Our users in Israel are primarily served from India-based resources
> (AWS/Azure), both of which have cloud capacity issues in India that I’m
> aware of.
>
> Also, the majority of our users in Israel that have been reporting
> slowness seem to be mostly behind the ISP Bezeq. If we force them to route
> to Ireland (which is technically farther away form a latency standpoint)
> things are much better, so I’m wondering if just Bezeq (or everyone in
> Israel) is just experiencing 3rd party-related network congestion to Mumbai.
>
> Thanks
> John
>
>
>

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mike Hammett]

I've been deploying Ubiquiti products since Robert was going around to the 
conferences himself, peddling his mini PCI card radios. I've deployed most of 
their product lines. I'm familiar with how they operate. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Mel Beckman"  
To: "Matt Hoppes"  
Cc: "Mike Hammett" , "NANOG list"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 8:43:02 AM 
Subject: Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 

I deploy Ubiquiti equipment quite a bit, both in WLANs and WISP distribution 
networks. It’s excellent quality at a dirt cheap price. As with all 
software-based products, there will be bugs. Your or my pet bug may never get 
fixed, based on market demand. That’s simply capitalism, not low quality. None 
of us can afford to pay for perfection, because it would never ship. 

I deployed 400 HP-Aruba APs at SFO, and that installation requires a full-time 
network engineer to manage the system. I’ve deployed many more times that in 
Unifi APs and they run perfectly well with only periodic software updates to 
accommodate new client device types. Unifi is 75% cheaper than Aruba, for 
essentially the same result. 

-mel 

> On May 26, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote: 
> 
> Except, you could argue they are exceling. Stocks are going up up up, and 
> folks buy the product. 
> 
> I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the quarterly 
> calls. 
> 
>> On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
>> That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are no 
>> reasonable alternatives. 
>> Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD. 
>> A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't hire 
>> enough people in the right areas to really excel. 
>> - 
>> Mike Hammett 
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions  
>> 
>>  
>> Midwest Internet Exchange  
>> 
>>  
>> The Brothers WISP  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> *From: *"Ben P"  
>> *To: *"Mike Hammett"  
>> *Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list"  
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM 
>> *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 
>> Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike. 
>> Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable 
>> replacement vendor. All the other vendors seem to want to ram 
>> cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want. My 
>> network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud. 
>> On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett > > wrote: 
>> The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but 
>> their responsiveness and customer support have been declining over 
>> the last five years. 
>> - 
>> Mike Hammett 
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions  
>> 
>>  
>> Midwest Internet Exchange  
>> 
>>  
>> The Brothers WISP  
>> 
>>  
>>  
>> *From:*"j k" mailto:jskl...@gmail.com>> 
>> *To:*"NANOG list" mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> 
>> *Sent:*Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM 
>> *Subject:*Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 
>> Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a 
>> pattern I don't like. 
>> Joe Klein 
>> "inveniet viam, aut faciet"^ --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, 
>> Scene 1) 
>> "I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela 

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mel Beckman]

JG, 

I empathize with your BGP problems. I’ve had problems with BGP on anything 
other than Cisco for my entire networking life. It’s just the nature of the 
beast, although that’s not an excuse for ubiquity not fixing it.

But what is an excuse is market demand. How many people do you think speak BGP 
on ubiquiti routers? I know ubiquiti, like every company, likes to claim that 
they do everything. But no company can do everything, so you have to find out 
where their strengths are and avoid their weaknesses.

Personally, I always put a pair of stacked Cisco layer3 switches at the edge of 
every BGP network. This gives me reliable, redundant BGP peering that operates 
at wire speed and can still carry full backbone tables. Use Cisco hardware let 
me do this for less money then I would pay for a buggy ubiquiti router.

-mel via cell

> On May 26, 2020, at 7:08 AM, Joe Greco  wrote:
> 
> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 01:43:02PM +, Mel Beckman wrote:
>> I deploy Ubiquiti equipment quite a bit, both in WLANs and WISP
>> distribution networks. It???s excellent quality at a dirt cheap
>> price. As with all software-based products, there will be bugs.
>> Your or my pet bug may never get fixed, based on market demand.
>> That???s simply capitalism, not low quality. None of us can
>> afford to pay for perfection, because it would never ship.
> 
> Bugs exist in hardware products too.  The difference is that with the
> software products, you'd hope for them to be fixed, whereas the ones
> in hardware generally turn into RMA.
> 
> My current pet peeves with Ubiquiti are all on the router side of
> things.  OSPFv3 (IPv6) doesn't work correctly past EdgeOS v1.10.9,
> and their BGP blows chunks - I've got an Infinity connected to a
> pair of route reflectors handling a single IX (two route servers)
> and it loses its mind, with the bgpd process actually going away.
> 
> Whether that's Ubiquiti's fault or should be blamed on ZebOS is a
> debatable question.  If you've got a vendor supplying your routing
> software, it seems like fixing advertised features that are clearly
> broken would be a matter of applying pressure on the upstream vendor
> whose code used to work and then was broken, not a matter of "market
> demand."
> 
> What's not debatable is that this has been the status quo for around
> nine months.  That's nine months without proper IPv6 support.  And
> this is their high end 10G full BGP tables router.  Buyer beware.
> 
> The wifi side of things?  Yes, the Ubiquiti stuff is very inexpensive
> and it provides better value-per-dollar than just about anything else
> out there.
> 
> ... JG
> -- 
> Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
> "The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way
> through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
> democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mike Bolitho]

>>Your or my pet bug may never get fixed, based on market demand. That’s
simply capitalism, not low quality.

No, that's low quality, full stop. Bugs need to be fixed in software that
you are selling. I bought a product and I expect it to work. If they are
going to tout themselves as enterprise grade, which they do (*Narrator:
They're not*), then they need to fix bugs in their production software.

- Mike Bolitho


On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 6:44 AM Mel Beckman  wrote:

> I deploy Ubiquiti equipment quite a bit, both in WLANs and WISP
> distribution networks. It’s excellent quality at a dirt cheap price. As
> with all software-based products, there will be bugs. Your or my pet bug
> may never get fixed, based on market demand. That’s simply capitalism, not
> low quality. None of us can afford to pay for perfection, because it would
> never ship.
>
> I deployed 400 HP-Aruba APs at SFO, and that installation requires a
> full-time network engineer to manage the system. I’ve deployed many more
> times that in Unifi APs and they run perfectly well with only periodic
> software updates to accommodate new client device types. Unifi is 75%
> cheaper than Aruba, for essentially the same result.
>
>  -mel
>
> > On May 26, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
> >
> > Except, you could argue they are exceling.  Stocks are going up up up,
> and folks buy the product.
> >
> > I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the
> quarterly calls.
> >
> >> On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> >> That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are
> no reasonable alternatives.
> >> Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD.
> >> A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't
> hire enough people in the right areas to really excel.
> >> -
> >> Mike Hammett
> >> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> >> <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> >> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> >> <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> >> The Brothers WISP 
> >> <
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >> 
> >> *From: *"Ben P" 
> >> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> >> *Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list" 
> >> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM
> >> *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
> >> Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.
> >> Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable
> replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram
> cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My
> network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud.
> >>On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett  >>> wrote:
> >>The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but
> >>their responsiveness and customer support have been declining over
> >>the last five years.
> >>-
> >>Mike Hammett
> >>Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> >><
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> >>Midwest Internet Exchange 
> >><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> >>The Brothers WISP 
> >><
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> >>
> 
> >>*From:*"j k" mailto:jskl...@gmail.com>>
> >>*To:*"NANOG list" mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
> >>*Sent:*Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM
> >>*Subject:*Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
> >>Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a
> >>pattern I don't like.
> >>Joe Klein
> >>"inveniet viam, aut faciet"^ --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II,
> >>Scene 1)
> >>"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela
>

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Tom Beecher]

For you an I, a hundred grand of reinvestment in the product and business
makes perfect sense. Make a good product, you will sell more of it, the
customers win, the business wins, the shareholders win.

For those who ascribe a different line of thinking, a few hundred grand
of reinvestment in the product means THEY DIDN'T MAXIMIZE SHAREHOLDER VALUE
FOR MY 0.02% OWNERSHIP , TIME TO FILE SUIT!

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 10:22 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Kind of OT for NANOG, but stock value is a terribly inaccurate way to
> measure if a company is "excelling." Wall Street knows nothing of how to
> run a company, prioritizing quarterly profit over long-term success. Not
> hiring additional staff makes your quarterly numbers look good, but it
> isn't good for the long-term attractiveness of your product. A good
> business doesn't just target new suckers, they also keep existing customers
> happy. Eventually you run out of suckers and all you have is a bunch of
> burned bridges in your wake.
>
> I subscribe to several feature requests in their community that are YEARS
> old with little to no response from Ubiquiti. Some of them can't be hard
> for Ubiquiti to implement because they're running on the exact same
> hardware and underlying OS and some of them you can configure in JSON
> files, but they just aren't available in the GUI. They just don't care.
> They'd rather push out Flavor Flav cameras or lighting.
>
> They came out with a new product in a particular family and opened a new
> feature request section for it. I commented something similar to, "Start
> with feature parity with the existing product, then start working through
> the years of feature requests there. Come back when you're done."
>
>
> This doesn't just afflict equipment manufacturers. Network operators are
> in the same boat. Both groups have companies profiting hundreds of millions
> or billions of dollars every quarter, can't spare a few hundred grand a
> year for a couple dev-ops guys to just bang out automation or features.
> Yes, I understand you rarely get twice the work from twice the people, but
> there are opportunities to make this better.
>
>
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> --
> *From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> *Cc: *"NANOG list" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 8:28:52 AM
> *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
>
> Except, you could argue they are exceling.  Stocks are going up up up,
> and folks buy the product.
>
> I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the
> quarterly calls.
>
> On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> > That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are
> > no reasonable alternatives.
> >
> > Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD.
> >
> > A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't
> > hire enough people in the right areas to really excel.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > <
> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> > 
> > *From: *"Ben P" 
> > *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
> > *Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list" 
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
> >
> > Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.
> >
> > Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable
> > replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram
> > cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My
> > network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic
> cloud.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but
> > the

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mike Hammett]

Kind of OT for NANOG, but stock value is a terribly inaccurate way to measure 
if a company is "excelling." Wall Street knows nothing of how to run a company, 
prioritizing quarterly profit over long-term success. Not hiring additional 
staff makes your quarterly numbers look good, but it isn't good for the 
long-term attractiveness of your product. A good business doesn't just target 
new suckers, they also keep existing customers happy. Eventually you run out of 
suckers and all you have is a bunch of burned bridges in your wake. 


I subscribe to several feature requests in their community that are YEARS old 
with little to no response from Ubiquiti. Some of them can't be hard for 
Ubiquiti to implement because they're running on the exact same hardware and 
underlying OS and some of them you can configure in JSON files, but they just 
aren't available in the GUI. They just don't care. They'd rather push out 
Flavor Flav cameras or lighting. 


They came out with a new product in a particular family and opened a new 
feature request section for it. I commented something similar to, "Start with 
feature parity with the existing product, then start working through the years 
of feature requests there. Come back when you're done." 




This doesn't just afflict equipment manufacturers. Network operators are in the 
same boat. Both groups have companies profiting hundreds of millions or 
billions of dollars every quarter, can't spare a few hundred grand a year for a 
couple dev-ops guys to just bang out automation or features. Yes, I understand 
you rarely get twice the work from twice the people, but there are 
opportunities to make this better. 








- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Matt Hoppes"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "NANOG list"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 8:28:52 AM 
Subject: Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 

Except, you could argue they are exceling. Stocks are going up up up, 
and folks buy the product. 

I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the 
quarterly calls. 

On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: 
> That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are 
> no reasonable alternatives. 
> 
> Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD. 
> 
> A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't 
> hire enough people in the right areas to really excel. 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions  
> 
>  
> Midwest Internet Exchange  
> 
>  
> The Brothers WISP  
> 
>  
>  
> *From: *"Ben P"  
> *To: *"Mike Hammett"  
> *Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list"  
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM 
> *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 
> 
> Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike. 
> 
> Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable 
> replacement vendor. All the other vendors seem to want to ram 
> cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want. My 
> network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud. 
> 
> 
> 
> On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett  > wrote: 
> 
> The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but 
> their responsiveness and customer support have been declining over 
> the last five years. 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions  
> 
>  
> Midwest Internet Exchange  
> 
>  
> The Brothers WISP  
> 
>  
>  
> *From:*"j k" mailto:jskl...@gmail.com>> 
> *To:*"NANOG list" mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> 
> *Sent:*Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM 
> *Subject:*Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 
> 
> Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a 
> pattern I don't like. 
> 
> Joe Klein 
> "inveniet vi

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Joe Greco]

On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 01:43:02PM +, Mel Beckman wrote:
> I deploy Ubiquiti equipment quite a bit, both in WLANs and WISP
> distribution networks. It???s excellent quality at a dirt cheap
> price. As with all software-based products, there will be bugs.
> Your or my pet bug may never get fixed, based on market demand.
> That???s simply capitalism, not low quality. None of us can
> afford to pay for perfection, because it would never ship.

Bugs exist in hardware products too.  The difference is that with the
software products, you'd hope for them to be fixed, whereas the ones
in hardware generally turn into RMA.

My current pet peeves with Ubiquiti are all on the router side of
things.  OSPFv3 (IPv6) doesn't work correctly past EdgeOS v1.10.9,
and their BGP blows chunks - I've got an Infinity connected to a
pair of route reflectors handling a single IX (two route servers)
and it loses its mind, with the bgpd process actually going away.

Whether that's Ubiquiti's fault or should be blamed on ZebOS is a
debatable question.  If you've got a vendor supplying your routing
software, it seems like fixing advertised features that are clearly
broken would be a matter of applying pressure on the upstream vendor
whose code used to work and then was broken, not a matter of "market
demand."

What's not debatable is that this has been the status quo for around
nine months.  That's nine months without proper IPv6 support.  And
this is their high end 10G full BGP tables router.  Buyer beware.

The wifi side of things?  Yes, the Ubiquiti stuff is very inexpensive
and it provides better value-per-dollar than just about anything else
out there.

... JG
-- 
Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
"The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way
through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that
democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'"-Asimov

Re: BGPmon alerting me about prefixes being withdrawn from Hurricane Electric attached sites

[Anurag Bhatia]

Contacted you offlist to look into this further.


Thanks.

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 7:09 PM Frank Bulk  wrote:

> I've already emailed the HE NOC, but curious if anyone else this morning
> has
> noticed any of their prefixes going missing from Hurricane Electric
> attached
> networks.
>
> BGPmon sent me these alerts, happening at different times:
>
> Withdraw of Prefix (Code: 97)
> Your prefix:  104.192.56.0/22:
> Update time:  2020-05-23 12:28 (UTC)
> Detected by #peers:   17
>
> Withdraw of Prefix (Code: 97)
> Your prefix:  96.31.0.0/19:
> Update time:  2020-05-23 13:08 (UTC)
> Detected by #peers:   13
>
> When I log into my BGPmon portal and look at the BGPmon peers listed,
> basically every one is peered directly or indirectly with HE. These BGPmon
> peers are located all over the world and if those two prefixes were
> globally
> withdrawn then the peer count would be much higher.
>
> While HE has a looking glass website, I can only choose three at a time,
> and
> since these 13 to 17 peers are located all over the world and I don't know
> what the IPs are, I can't traceroute to figure out what their most likely
> interconnection point with HE is to look at the appropriate looking glass.
> The HE NOC is obviously better positioned to see where our prefixes are or
> are not on their network, which is why I contacted them.
>
> Frank
> AS53347
>
>

-- 


Anurag Bhatia
anuragbhatia.com

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mel Beckman]

I deploy Ubiquiti equipment quite a bit, both in WLANs and WISP distribution 
networks. It’s excellent quality at a dirt cheap price. As with all 
software-based products, there will be bugs. Your or my pet bug may never get 
fixed, based on market demand. That’s simply capitalism, not low quality. None 
of us can afford to pay for perfection, because it would never ship.

I deployed 400 HP-Aruba APs at SFO, and that installation requires a full-time 
network engineer to manage the system. I’ve deployed many more times that in 
Unifi APs and they run perfectly well with only periodic software updates to 
accommodate new client device types. Unifi is 75% cheaper than Aruba, for 
essentially the same result.

 -mel 

> On May 26, 2020, at 6:29 AM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> Except, you could argue they are exceling.  Stocks are going up up up, and 
> folks buy the product.
> 
> I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the quarterly 
> calls.
> 
>> On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>> That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are no 
>> reasonable alternatives.
>> Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD.
>> A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't hire 
>> enough people in the right areas to really excel.
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>> 
>> *From: *"Ben P" 
>> *To: *"Mike Hammett" 
>> *Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
>> Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.
>> Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable 
>> replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram 
>> cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My 
>> network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud.
>>On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett >> wrote:
>>The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but
>>their responsiveness and customer support have been declining over
>>the last five years.
>>-
>>Mike Hammett
>>Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>
>> 
>>Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>
>> 
>>The Brothers WISP 
>>
>> 
>>
>>*From:*"j k" mailto:jskl...@gmail.com>>
>>*To:*"NANOG list" mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
>>*Sent:*Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM
>>*Subject:*Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?
>>Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a
>>pattern I don't like.
>>Joe Klein
>>"inveniet viam, aut faciet"^ --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II,
>>Scene 1)
>>"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Matt Hoppes]

Except, you could argue they are exceling.  Stocks are going up up up, 
and folks buy the product.


I really wish stock holders would ask the proper questions in the 
quarterly calls.


On 5/26/20 8:53 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are 
no reasonable alternatives.


Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD.

A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't 
hire enough people in the right areas to really excel.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 


*From: *"Ben P" 
*To: *"Mike Hammett" 
*Cc: *"j k" , "NANOG list" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM
*Subject: *Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike.

Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable 
replacement vendor.  All the other vendors seem to want to ram 
cloud-management down your throat which I absolutely do not want.  My 
network, my control, not under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud.




On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett mailto:na...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but
their responsiveness and customer support have been declining over
the last five years.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 



*From:*"j k" mailto:jskl...@gmail.com>>
*To:*"NANOG list" mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
*Sent:*Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM
*Subject:*Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a
pattern I don't like.

Joe Klein
"inveniet viam, aut faciet"^ --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II,
Scene 1)
"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela

Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks?

[Mike Hammett]

That is a big problem. In terms of their UniFi product line, there are no 
reasonable alternatives. 


Upper management is the biggest problem. They have severe ADD. 


A ton of companies have these kinds of issues. They just plain don't hire 
enough people in the right areas to really excel. 





- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "Ben P"  
To: "Mike Hammett"  
Cc: "j k" , "NANOG list"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2020 5:01:36 AM 
Subject: Re: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 


Agree 1000% with the sentiments expressed by Mike. 


Unfortunately despite much research I’ve been unable to find a suitable 
replacement vendor. All the other vendors seem to want to ram cloud-management 
down your throat which I absolutely do not want. My network, my control, not 
under the auspices of someone else’s magic cloud. 








On 25 May 2020, at 21:21, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote: 


The company has mostly fallen apart. Their sales are going up, but their 
responsiveness and customer support have been declining over the last five 
years. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 

- Original Message -

From: "j k" < jskl...@gmail.com > 
To: "NANOG list" < nanog@nanog.org > 
Sent: Monday, May 25, 2020 3:16:36 PM 
Subject: Contact at Ubiquiti Networks? 


Does anyone have a good contact at Ubiquity Networks? Finding a pattern I don't 
like. 









Joe Klein 


"inveniet viam, aut faciet" --- Seneca's Hercules Furens (Act II, Scene 1) 
"I never lose. I either win or learn" - Nelson Mandela