Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Fri, 08 Jan 2021 14:10:41 -0600, Richard Porter said:

> I missed that... *he says as he deletes Keybase*

Hopefully not before you told your Keybase contacts where you were going. :)


pgpytCcsAjPkH.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Richard Porter]

Thanks Dave,
I missed that... *he says as he deletes Keybase*

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:36 PM Dave Phelps  wrote:

> Keybase was purchased by Zoom (
> https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/zoom-buys-keybase-in-first-deal-as-part-of-plan-to-fix-security.html).
> From what I've gathered, Zoom is too tight with, owned by, or run by China,
> so I believe there was a similar mass exodus from Keybase for lack of trust.
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:17 PM Richard Porter 
> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone considered or used Keybase?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:14 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 1/8/21 19:26, Drew Weaver wrote:
>>>
>>> > This might be anecdotal but there is a ton of debate about whether or
>>> not Telegram is encrypted.
>>> >
>>> > This is not anecdotal though, on Wednesday night I saw an interview
>>> with a security expert on CNBC and he indicated that they knew that the
>>> riots in DC were going to happen because they had been "monitoring the
>>> extremists Telegram groups". What they didn't say was whether or not they
>>> were simply members of those groups, or monitoring from a
>>> "networking/technology" sense. I'm not sure if Signal does groups the same
>>> way that Telegram does but that one is widely believed to be much better
>>> than Telegram as far as privacy and security.
>>> >
>>> > Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to
>>> Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to
>>> Teams for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under
>>> the hood with Telegram.
>>> >
>>> > Just some things that I have observed, not trying to start a holy war.
>>>
>>> My rudimentary understanding of Telegram is that group messages are
>>> client-server, which is why new members can read old posts when they
>>> join a group.
>>>
>>> Signal, on the other hand, is p2p for members within the group. No
>>> messages are ever sent to their cloud.
>>>
>>> Mark.
>>>
>>

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Mike Bolitho]

Zoom bought Keybase.
Keybase also has a bit of technical overhead that prevents casual users
from adopting. It's why my group chats are migrating to Signal. Having
non-tech friends generate key strings and all that... definitely not going
to happen.

- Mike Bolitho


On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 12:17 PM Richard Porter 
wrote:

> Has anyone considered or used Keybase?
>

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Dave Phelps]

Keybase was purchased by Zoom (
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/07/zoom-buys-keybase-in-first-deal-as-part-of-plan-to-fix-security.html).
>From what I've gathered, Zoom is too tight with, owned by, or run by China,
so I believe there was a similar mass exodus from Keybase for lack of trust.

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:17 PM Richard Porter 
wrote:

> Has anyone considered or used Keybase?
>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:14 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 1/8/21 19:26, Drew Weaver wrote:
>>
>> > This might be anecdotal but there is a ton of debate about whether or
>> not Telegram is encrypted.
>> >
>> > This is not anecdotal though, on Wednesday night I saw an interview
>> with a security expert on CNBC and he indicated that they knew that the
>> riots in DC were going to happen because they had been "monitoring the
>> extremists Telegram groups". What they didn't say was whether or not they
>> were simply members of those groups, or monitoring from a
>> "networking/technology" sense. I'm not sure if Signal does groups the same
>> way that Telegram does but that one is widely believed to be much better
>> than Telegram as far as privacy and security.
>> >
>> > Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to
>> Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to
>> Teams for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under
>> the hood with Telegram.
>> >
>> > Just some things that I have observed, not trying to start a holy war.
>>
>> My rudimentary understanding of Telegram is that group messages are
>> client-server, which is why new members can read old posts when they
>> join a group.
>>
>> Signal, on the other hand, is p2p for members within the group. No
>> messages are ever sent to their cloud.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Saku Ytti]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 21:18, Richard Porter  wrote:

> Has anyone considered or used Keybase?

Didn't they sell their customers recently. I may be talking out of my posterior.

But on a more serious note, which of these are provably correct?

One of them used to offer you a local message and outgoing data
(signal?) so you could independently verify that they send the correct
data out, reflecting the algorithmic choice you have. So instead of
trusting that(signal?) you have to trust the algorithm, which they
don't control.




>
> On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:14 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/8/21 19:26, Drew Weaver wrote:
>>
>> > This might be anecdotal but there is a ton of debate about whether or not 
>> > Telegram is encrypted.
>> >
>> > This is not anecdotal though, on Wednesday night I saw an interview with a 
>> > security expert on CNBC and he indicated that they knew that the riots in 
>> > DC were going to happen because they had been "monitoring the extremists 
>> > Telegram groups". What they didn't say was whether or not they were simply 
>> > members of those groups, or monitoring from a "networking/technology" 
>> > sense. I'm not sure if Signal does groups the same way that Telegram does 
>> > but that one is widely believed to be much better than Telegram as far as 
>> > privacy and security.
>> >
>> > Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to 
>> > Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to 
>> > Teams for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under 
>> > the hood with Telegram.
>> >
>> > Just some things that I have observed, not trying to start a holy war.
>>
>> My rudimentary understanding of Telegram is that group messages are
>> client-server, which is why new members can read old posts when they
>> join a group.
>>
>> Signal, on the other hand, is p2p for members within the group. No
>> messages are ever sent to their cloud.
>>
>> Mark.



-- 
  ++ytti

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Richard Porter]

Has anyone considered or used Keybase?

On Fri, Jan 8, 2021 at 1:14 PM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 1/8/21 19:26, Drew Weaver wrote:
>
> > This might be anecdotal but there is a ton of debate about whether or
> not Telegram is encrypted.
> >
> > This is not anecdotal though, on Wednesday night I saw an interview with
> a security expert on CNBC and he indicated that they knew that the riots in
> DC were going to happen because they had been "monitoring the extremists
> Telegram groups". What they didn't say was whether or not they were simply
> members of those groups, or monitoring from a "networking/technology"
> sense. I'm not sure if Signal does groups the same way that Telegram does
> but that one is widely believed to be much better than Telegram as far as
> privacy and security.
> >
> > Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to
> Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to
> Teams for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under
> the hood with Telegram.
> >
> > Just some things that I have observed, not trying to start a holy war.
>
> My rudimentary understanding of Telegram is that group messages are
> client-server, which is why new members can read old posts when they
> join a group.
>
> Signal, on the other hand, is p2p for members within the group. No
> messages are ever sent to their cloud.
>
> Mark.
>

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Mark Tinka]

On 1/8/21 19:26, Drew Weaver wrote:


This might be anecdotal but there is a ton of debate about whether or not 
Telegram is encrypted.

This is not anecdotal though, on Wednesday night I saw an interview with a security expert on CNBC 
and he indicated that they knew that the riots in DC were going to happen because they had been 
"monitoring the extremists Telegram groups". What they didn't say was whether or not they 
were simply members of those groups, or monitoring from a "networking/technology" sense. 
I'm not sure if Signal does groups the same way that Telegram does but that one is widely believed 
to be much better than Telegram as far as privacy and security.

Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to 
Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to Teams 
for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under the hood 
with Telegram.

Just some things that I have observed, not trying to start a holy war.


My rudimentary understanding of Telegram is that group messages are 
client-server, which is why new members can read old posts when they 
join a group.


Signal, on the other hand, is p2p for members within the group. No 
messages are ever sent to their cloud.


Mark.

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Mark Tinka]

On 1/8/21 19:00, Ge DUPIN wrote:

There is also Telegram, which is quite good 


My rough formula:

    Signal > Telegram > iMessage > WhatsApp

Mark.

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Mark Tinka]

On 1/8/21 18:56, Andy Ringsmuth wrote:


Same boat here. I don’t even have a FB account but I am in a handful of 
WhatsApp groups.


Ditched my Facebook account in 2012, after some glitch posted private 
messages to one's time line. Never looked back.


Mark.

RE: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Drew Weaver]

Personally it was the inability to set policies/controls on usage and not 
having any visibility with what Telegram was doing.

But again, everyone should do whatever everyone wants to do.



-Original Message-
From: Saku Ytti  
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 1:24 PM
To: Drew Weaver 
Cc: Ge DUPIN ; Andy Ringsmuth ; 
nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 20:05, Drew Weaver  wrote:

> Everyone can and should use whatever signals they want to make their own 
> decisions.

Sorry, I'm still confused. What was the signal that you used to change from 
Telegram to Teams?

--
  ++ytti

Spoofer Report for NANOG for Dec 2020

[CAIDA Spoofer Project]

In response to feedback from operational security communities,
CAIDA's source address validation measurement project
(https://spoofer.caida.org) is automatically generating monthly
reports of ASes originating prefixes in BGP for systems from which
we received packets with a spoofed source address.
We are publishing these reports to network and security operations
lists in order to ensure this information reaches operational
contacts in these ASes.

This report summarises tests conducted within usa, can.

Inferred improvements during Dec 2020:
ASNName   Fixed-By
7859   PAIR-NETWORKS  2020-12-13
20473  AS-CHOOPA  2020-12-16
25787  ROWE-NETWORKS  2020-12-23

Further information for the inferred remediation is available at:
https://spoofer.caida.org/remedy.php

Source Address Validation issues inferred during Dec 2020:
ASNName   First-Spoofed Last-Spoofed
54825  PACKET2016-04-15   2020-12-09
209CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST   2016-08-16   2020-12-21
6128   CABLE-NET-1   2016-09-03   2020-12-06
20412  CLARITY-TELECOM   2016-09-30   2020-12-31
6181   FUSE-NET  2016-10-10   2020-12-31
14971  PINETEL   2016-10-21   2020-12-19
11427  TWC-11427-TEXAS   2016-10-21   2020-12-23
32440  LONI  2016-11-03   2020-12-21
12083  WOW-INTERNET  2016-11-09   2020-12-30
30036  MEDIACOM-ENTERPRISE-BUSINESS  2016-11-16   2020-12-21
63296  AWBROADBAND   2017-09-01   2020-12-29
1  AKAMAI2018-02-14   2020-12-23
393564 SPOKANE   2018-06-05   2020-12-15
33452  RW2018-09-19   2020-12-29
20448  VPNTRANET-LLC 2018-09-20   2020-12-15
8047   GCI   2019-04-11   2020-12-18
7859   PAIR-NETWORKS 2020-04-03   2020-12-20
6391   URBAN-15  2020-05-29   2020-12-23
11814  DISTRIBUTEL-AS11814   2020-11-22   2020-12-18
208188 PUGET-SOUND-NETWORKS  2020-12-04   2020-12-19

Further information for these tests where we received spoofed
packets is available at:
https://spoofer.caida.org/recent_tests.php?country_include=usa,can_block=1

Source Address Validation issues inferred during Dec 2020
using open resolver tests:
ASNName   Last-Detected
16524  METTEL2020-12-05
19257  SUBRIGO   2020-12-05
53274  3DB-WIRELESS  2020-12-04
395262 CENTRE-OF-EXCELLENCE-IN-NEXT-G2020-12-04
11260  EASTLINK-HSI  2020-12-04
397081 AUWIRELESS-01 2020-12-04
53338  ITCI  2020-12-04
47023  NOR-NET-COMM  2020-12-04
40651  MONSTERGOVSOL 2020-12-04
32233  PERSONA   2020-12-03
394232 TELKEL-MTL2020-12-03
46375  AS-SONICTELECOM   2020-12-03
9009   M247  2020-12-03
46328  FOUR-U2020-12-03
15081  ASN-CROS-12020-12-02
16922  OUHSC-EDU 2020-12-02
29953  MORNCOMM  2020-12-02
396236 MIMOKC2020-12-02
53456  WESTRUX   2020-12-01
11287  AS-MSEA   2020-12-01
4565   MEGAPATH2-US  2020-12-01
55175  CLOUDBURST2020-12-01
395261 AS-HCCL-7 2020-12-01
25636  ONTL-2002 2020-12-01
30600  AS-CMN2020-12-01

Further information for these tests is available at:
https://spoofer.caida.org/ornog.php?country_include=usa,can

Please send any feedback or suggestions to spoofer-i...@caida.org

RE: Video Conferencing options to Beijing

[Scott, Thomas]

Spencer,

Skype (not for business) is what I've used in the past for video-conferencing 
inside the great (fire)wall. It works without a VPN, not sure if there are any 
limitations currently.

Regards,
[cid:image001.png@01D6E5BC.7D885F70]
Thomas Scott
Engineer, Network Operations

2875 Fork Creek Church Road, Ellenwood, GA 30294
+1 404-381-2446 | M +1 480-241-7422
www.intelsat.com


From: NANOG  On Behalf Of 
Spencer Coplin
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 12:36
To: North American Network Operators' Group 
Subject: Video Conferencing options to Beijing

External Email - Use Caution |

I know this is a bit outside of North America, so if this isn't relevant, 
please let me know. I have a client that is asking for video conferencing 
options back to Beijing for their users. What has everyone's experience been 
with setting up a solution like this?

We have to assume the Chinese users will be on non-VPN connections and under 
the filters of the Great Firewall of China. We are looking for software that 
can be installed on Windows, so apps that rely on Android or iOS are at bottom 
of our list, but not fully out of consideration.

Teams was my first thought, but per Microsoft, Teams isn't available in China:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/services-in-china/services-in-china?view=o365-21vianet

Thank you,
Spencer


*** This email was received from a system outside of Intelsat's network and may 
contain hyperlinks.

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the message is from a trusted, validated source before taking any action.

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[https://www.intelsat.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/INTELSAT-Logo-Horiz_4C_200-002.jpg]

As the foundational architects of satellite technology, Intelsat operates the 
largest, most advanced satellite fleet and connectivity infrastructure in the 
world. We apply our unparalleled expertise and global scale to reliably and 
seamlessly connect people, devices and networks in even the most challenging 
and remote locations. Transformation happens when businesses, governments and 
communities build a ubiquitous connected future through Intelsat's 
next-generation global network and simplified managed services. At Intelsat, we 
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For more information, visit www.intelsat.com and 
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Re: Show NOCs: OIG report: Should you charge extra for NOC tours?

[Seth Mattinen]

On 1/7/21 10:31 AM, Christopher Morrow wrote:

NOC tours seem like a very 1990's thing, that and 'datacenter tours'.



I still offer them because as a small company a lot of people think 
unless you're $bigname that whatever a small company can possibly offer 
is trash.

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Saku Ytti]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 20:05, Drew Weaver  wrote:

> Everyone can and should use whatever signals they want to make their own 
> decisions.

Sorry, I'm still confused. What was the signal that you used to change
from Telegram to Teams?

-- 
  ++ytti

RE: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Drew Weaver]

Well, I suppose you can't really know for sure that Teams is following any sort 
of best practices but Teams does let you set standards for security and privacy 
in the admin center a couple of other points:

A) It seems like if there is an issue with Teams they have more of an 
imperative to fix it (as well as financial and technical resources)
B) If you do a few searches on your favorite search engine regarding Telegram 
there appears to be debate about what it's doing in regards to security, 
privacy, storage/custody of data, etc.

Everyone can and should use whatever signals they want to make their own 
decisions.



-Original Message-
From: Saku Ytti  
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 12:36 PM
To: Drew Weaver 
Cc: Ge DUPIN ; Andy Ringsmuth ; 
nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 19:29, Drew Weaver  wrote:


> Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to 
> Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to Teams 
> for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under the hood 
> with Telegram.

For my education, how is Teams doing this better, and can I independently 
verify it?

--
  ++ytti

Weekly Routing Table Report

[Routing Analysis Role Account]

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet
Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan.

The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, SAFNOG
TZNOG, MENOG, BJNOG, SDNOG, CMNOG, LACNOG and the RIPE Routing WG.

Daily listings are sent to bgp-st...@lists.apnic.net

For historical data, please see http://thyme.rand.apnic.net.

If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith .

Routing Table Report   04:00 +10GMT Sat 09 Jan, 2021

Report Website: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net
Detailed Analysis:  http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/

Analysis Summary


BGP routing table entries examined:  835914
Prefixes after maximum aggregation (per Origin AS):  320620
Deaggregation factor:  2.61
Unique aggregates announced (without unneeded subnets):  400305
Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 70275
Prefixes per ASN: 11.89
Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   60448
Origin ASes announcing only one prefix:   25023
Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:9827
Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:296
Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table:   4.4
Max AS path length visible: 203
Max AS path prepend of ASN (396896) 200
Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table:  1015
Number of instances of unregistered ASNs:  1018
Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs:  34613
Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:   28766
Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table:  132847
Number of bogon 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:15
Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table:1
Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space:501
Number of addresses announced to Internet:   2864181632
Equivalent to 170 /8s, 183 /16s and 241 /24s
Percentage of available address space announced:   77.4
Percentage of allocated address space announced:   77.4
Percentage of available address space allocated:  100.0
Percentage of address space in use by end-sites:   99.5
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  284376

APNIC Region Analysis Summary
-

Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes:   218915
Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation:   64842
APNIC Deaggregation factor:3.38
Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks:  214864
Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks:87855
APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   11192
APNIC Prefixes per ASN:   19.20
APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix:   3195
APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   1604
Average APNIC Region AS path length visible:4.5
Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 31
Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:   6324
Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet:  778374912
Equivalent to 46 /8s, 101 /16s and 15 /24s
APNIC AS Blocks4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431
(pre-ERX allocations)  23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319,
   58368-59391, 63488-64098, 64297-64395, 131072-143673
APNIC Address Blocks 1/8,  14/8,  27/8,  36/8,  39/8,  42/8,  43/8,
49/8,  58/8,  59/8,  60/8,  61/8, 101/8, 103/8,
   106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8,
   116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8,
   123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 150/8, 153/8,
   163/8, 171/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8,
   203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8,
   222/8, 223/8,

ARIN Region Analysis Summary


Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes:241300
Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation:   111690
ARIN Deaggregation factor: 2.16
Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks:   241836
Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks:115697
ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:18696
ARIN Prefixes per ASN:12.94
ARIN 

RE: Video Conferencing options to Beijing

[Spencer Coplin]

Thank you Scott and Eric. This gives me some good options to pursue.

Thank you,
Spencer

From: Scott, Thomas 
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 11:48 AM
To: Spencer Coplin ; North American Network Operators' 
Group 
Subject: RE: Video Conferencing options to Beijing

CAUTION: This email originated from an external source. Verify the sender 
before taking any actions.

Spencer,

Skype (not for business) is what I've used in the past for video-conferencing 
inside the great (fire)wall. It works without a VPN, not sure if there are any 
limitations currently.

Regards,
[cid:image001.png@01D6E5B5.367B7470]
Thomas Scott
Engineer, Network Operations

2875 Fork Creek Church Road, Ellenwood, GA 30294
+1 404-381-2446 | M +1 480-241-7422
www.intelsat.com


From: NANOG 
mailto:nanog-bounces+thomas.scott=intelsat@nanog.org>>
 On Behalf Of Spencer Coplin
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 12:36
To: North American Network Operators' Group 
mailto:nanog@nanog.org>>
Subject: Video Conferencing options to Beijing

External Email - Use Caution |

I know this is a bit outside of North America, so if this isn't relevant, 
please let me know. I have a client that is asking for video conferencing 
options back to Beijing for their users. What has everyone's experience been 
with setting up a solution like this?

We have to assume the Chinese users will be on non-VPN connections and under 
the filters of the Great Firewall of China. We are looking for software that 
can be installed on Windows, so apps that rely on Android or iOS are at bottom 
of our list, but not fully out of consideration.

Teams was my first thought, but per Microsoft, Teams isn't available in China:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/services-in-china/services-in-china?view=o365-21vianet

Thank you,
Spencer


*** This email was received from a system outside of Intelsat's network and may 
contain hyperlinks.

Emails from external sources could be malicious in nature. Please ensure that 
the message is from a trusted, validated source before taking any action.

Please contact the Intelsat Help Desk with any questions or concerns.

Thank You ***

[https://www.intelsat.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/INTELSAT-Logo-Horiz_4C_200-002.jpg]

As the foundational architects of satellite technology, Intelsat operates the 
largest, most advanced satellite fleet and connectivity infrastructure in the 
world. We apply our unparalleled expertise and global scale to reliably and 
seamlessly connect people, devices and networks in even the most challenging 
and remote locations. Transformation happens when businesses, governments and 
communities build a ubiquitous connected future through Intelsat's 
next-generation global network and simplified managed services. At Intelsat, we 
turn possibilities into reality. Imagine Here, with us, at Intelsat.com.

For more information, visit www.intelsat.com and 
follow us on 
Facebook, 
Twitter and 
LinkedIn

This email message is for the sole use of the intended recipients and may 
contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, 
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended 
recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of 
the original message. Any views expressed in this message are those of the 
individual sender, except where the sender specifically states them to be the 
views of Intelsat S.A. and its subsidiaries.

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Saku Ytti]

On Fri, 8 Jan 2021 at 19:29, Drew Weaver  wrote:


> Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to 
> Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to Teams 
> for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under the hood 
> with Telegram.

For my education, how is Teams doing this better, and can I
independently verify it?

-- 
  ++ytti

Video Conferencing options to Beijing

[Spencer Coplin]

I know this is a bit outside of North America, so if this isn't relevant, 
please let me know. I have a client that is asking for video conferencing 
options back to Beijing for their users. What has everyone's experience been 
with setting up a solution like this?

We have to assume the Chinese users will be on non-VPN connections and under 
the filters of the Great Firewall of China. We are looking for software that 
can be installed on Windows, so apps that rely on Android or iOS are at bottom 
of our list, but not fully out of consideration.

Teams was my first thought, but per Microsoft, Teams isn't available in China:
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/admin/services-in-china/services-in-china?view=o365-21vianet

Thank you,
Spencer

Re: Show NOCs: OIG report: Should you charge extra for NOC tours?

[Jay R. Ashworth]

- Original Message -
> From: "Valdis Klētnieks" 

> On Thu, 07 Jan 2021 23:35:06 +, "Jay R. Ashworth" said:
>> > From: "Brandon Svec" 
>> > It is not really different than most other tourist attractions. Some are 
>> > amazed
>> > and curious to see the largest ball of twine
>> Those would be people who *don't* do this for a living, mostly...
>> >   and some think it is 
>> > ridiculous.
>> Those would be people who *do* this for a living, mostly.
> 
> I could go "meh" about a NOC tour itself.  On the other hand, I can think
> of a number of providers where buying the right person a beer would be
> significantly enlightening. :)

About 10 years ago now, I had a client whose project enabled/required me to 
go tour the big 6 or 7 colo providers in Tampa; we ended up in Park Tower at
eSolutions, now owned by WOW.  (Very nicely run, though I don't know if Arrin
is still running it; they operated the carrier hotel in Tampa as well, so...)

As you imply, while the tours were nice, the more important thing was that
they were *given by exactly the guy you wanted to know better*.

And by the end of the tour, if you'd asked good questions, you'd established
both his bonafides... and your own.

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth  Baylink   j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think   RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates   http://www.bcp38.info  2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA  BCP38: Ask For It By Name!   +1 727 647 1274

RE: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Drew Weaver]

This might be anecdotal but there is a ton of debate about whether or not 
Telegram is encrypted. 

This is not anecdotal though, on Wednesday night I saw an interview with a 
security expert on CNBC and he indicated that they knew that the riots in DC 
were going to happen because they had been "monitoring the extremists Telegram 
groups". What they didn't say was whether or not they were simply members of 
those groups, or monitoring from a "networking/technology" sense. I'm not sure 
if Signal does groups the same way that Telegram does but that one is widely 
believed to be much better than Telegram as far as privacy and security. 

Telegram is a tremendously useful (and free service) for connecting to 
Elastalert for all manner of notifications, but we have since moved to Teams 
for that just because we can't really be sure what is going on under the hood 
with Telegram.

Just some things that I have observed, not trying to start a holy war.



-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Ge 
DUPIN
Sent: Friday, January 8, 2021 12:00 PM
To: Andy Ringsmuth 
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

There is also Telegram, which is quite good 

Ge Dupin

> Le 8 janv. 2021 à 17:56, Andy Ringsmuth  a écrit :
> 
> Same boat here. I don’t even have a FB account but I am in a handful of 
> WhatsApp groups. Most are family related but one is a tight-knit men’s group 
> at church where privacy is important. The “hey men, I’m struggling with 
>  and I need support” type group.
> 
> We’re ditching WhatsApp likely for Signal as well. I trust satan himself more 
> than I trust Zuckerburg.
> 
> 
> Andy Ringsmuth
> 5609 Harding Drive
> Lincoln, NE 68521-5831
> (402) 304-0083
> a...@andyring.com
> 
> “Better even die free, than to live slaves.” - Frederick Douglas, 1863
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Tinka  wrote:
>> 
>> ... finally been the final push all my friends needed to dump it and move to 
>> Signal.
>> 
>> Several of the WhatsApp groups I'm on have, as of this morning, been 
>> disbanded and re-launched on Signal.
>> 
>> Facebook say the new policy applies to business accounts, but heck, the 
>> cat's out the bag and gone.
>> 
>> What's most amazing to me is that a lot more people seem to be a tad more 
>> concerned about their privacy, when they ordinarily wouldn't have.
>> 
>> Mark.
> 

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Ge DUPIN]

There is also Telegram, which is quite good 

Ge Dupin

> Le 8 janv. 2021 à 17:56, Andy Ringsmuth  a écrit :
> 
> Same boat here. I don’t even have a FB account but I am in a handful of 
> WhatsApp groups. Most are family related but one is a tight-knit men’s group 
> at church where privacy is important. The “hey men, I’m struggling with 
>  and I need support” type group.
> 
> We’re ditching WhatsApp likely for Signal as well. I trust satan himself more 
> than I trust Zuckerburg.
> 
> 
> Andy Ringsmuth
> 5609 Harding Drive
> Lincoln, NE 68521-5831
> (402) 304-0083
> a...@andyring.com
> 
> “Better even die free, than to live slaves.” - Frederick Douglas, 1863
> 
>> On Jan 8, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Tinka  wrote:
>> 
>> ... finally been the final push all my friends needed to dump it and move to 
>> Signal.
>> 
>> Several of the WhatsApp groups I'm on have, as of this morning, been 
>> disbanded and re-launched on Signal.
>> 
>> Facebook say the new policy applies to business accounts, but heck, the 
>> cat's out the bag and gone.
>> 
>> What's most amazing to me is that a lot more people seem to be a tad more 
>> concerned about their privacy, when they ordinarily wouldn't have.
>> 
>> Mark.
> 

Re: WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Andy Ringsmuth]

Same boat here. I don’t even have a FB account but I am in a handful of 
WhatsApp groups. Most are family related but one is a tight-knit men’s group at 
church where privacy is important. The “hey men, I’m struggling with  and I need support” type group.

We’re ditching WhatsApp likely for Signal as well. I trust satan himself more 
than I trust Zuckerburg.


Andy Ringsmuth
5609 Harding Drive
Lincoln, NE 68521-5831
(402) 304-0083
a...@andyring.com

“Better even die free, than to live slaves.” - Frederick Douglas, 1863

> On Jan 8, 2021, at 10:00 AM, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> 
> ... finally been the final push all my friends needed to dump it and move to 
> Signal.
> 
> Several of the WhatsApp groups I'm on have, as of this morning, been 
> disbanded and re-launched on Signal.
> 
> Facebook say the new policy applies to business accounts, but heck, the cat's 
> out the bag and gone.
> 
> What's most amazing to me is that a lot more people seem to be a tad more 
> concerned about their privacy, when they ordinarily wouldn't have.
> 
> Mark.

WhatsApp's New Policy Has...

[Mark Tinka]

... finally been the final push all my friends needed to dump it and 
move to Signal.


Several of the WhatsApp groups I'm on have, as of this morning, been 
disbanded and re-launched on Signal.


Facebook say the new policy applies to business accounts, but heck, the 
cat's out the bag and gone.


What's most amazing to me is that a lot more people seem to be a tad 
more concerned about their privacy, when they ordinarily wouldn't have.


Mark.