Re: FYI: NANOG and ICANN

[Owen DeLong via NANOG]

> On Oct 8, 2021, at 12:39 PM, Warren Kumari  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:39 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG  > wrote:
> I see this as a way to allow NANOG to help channel some of ICANN’s incredible 
> excess of funding
> towards more useful pursuits than those ICANN has endowed so far.
> 
> https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-and-first-sign-memorandum-of-understanding-on-dns-threats-mitigation-22-5-2020-en
>  
> 
> 
> https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-signs-memorandum-of-understanding-with-the-georgian-national-communications-commission-7-12-2020-en
>  
> 
> 
> https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/gsma-and-icann-sign-memorandum-of-understanding-at-gsma-mobile-world-congress-28-2-2018-en
>  
> 
> 
> https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-signs-memorandum-of-understanding-with-the-global-cyber-alliance-16-6-2020-en
>  
> 
> 
> I suspect that if you think that this will make it rain, you will be sadly 
> disappointed...

I don’t expect it will do any good at all. I hope that it will be slightly less 
damaging than the things ICANN
usually spends money on.

I trust NANOG to be less destructive than ICANN and as near as I can tell, this 
partnership is mostly ICANN funding
and NANOG doing.

Owen

> 
> W
>  
> 
> Owen
> 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Edward McNair > > wrote:
>> 
>> This partnership will have no ill effect on NANOG conferences. The focus of 
>> these partnerships are on outreach, technical education and underserved 
>> communities in North America.
>> 
>> 
>> Edward McNair
>> Executive Director
>> 
>> emcn...@nanog.org  | +1 866-902-1336 ext. 102  | 
>> www.nanog.org 
>> NANOG | 305 E. Eisenhower Pkwy, Suite 100 | Ann Arbor, MI 48108, USA
>> 
>>> On Oct 4, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Mehmet Akcin >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Icann meetings used to be great. They are horrible now with few exceptions 
>>> of several technical sessions.
>>> 
>>> I hope this don’t ruin nanog meetings
>>> 
>>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:08 J. Hellenthal via NANOG >> > wrote:
>>> You mean they could not come together enough to share even the same page 
>>> yet even a domain name or central corporation to oversee these needs ?
>>> 
>>> Personally I'm calling partially "bullshit" the Matthew McConaughey way!
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>>  J. Hellenthal
>>> 
>>> The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says 
>>> a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>>> 
>>> > On Oct 4, 2021, at 09:33, Patrick W. Gilmore >> > > wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > NANOG’s version: 
>>> > https://www.nanog.org/stories/nanog-signs-a-memorandum-of-understanding-with-internet-society-icann/
>>> >  
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > TTFN,
>>> > patrick
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >> On Oct 4, 2021, at 4:42 AM, Hank Nussbacher >> >> > wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-signs-a-memorandum-of-understanding-with-nanog-27-9-2021-en
>>> >>  
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> Regards,
>>> >> Hank
>>> > 
>>> -- 
>>> Mehmet
>>> +1-424-298-1903
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the
> complexities of his own making. 
>   -- E. W. Dijkstra

Re: FYI: NANOG and ICANN

[Warren Kumari]

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 2:39 PM Owen DeLong via NANOG 
wrote:

> I see this as a way to allow NANOG to help channel some of ICANN’s
> incredible excess of funding
> towards more useful pursuits than those ICANN has endowed so far.
>

https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-and-first-sign-memorandum-of-understanding-on-dns-threats-mitigation-22-5-2020-en

https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-signs-memorandum-of-understanding-with-the-georgian-national-communications-commission-7-12-2020-en

https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/gsma-and-icann-sign-memorandum-of-understanding-at-gsma-mobile-world-congress-28-2-2018-en

https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-signs-memorandum-of-understanding-with-the-global-cyber-alliance-16-6-2020-en

I suspect that if you think that this will make it rain, you will be sadly
disappointed...

W


>
> Owen
>
>
> On Oct 4, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Edward McNair  wrote:
>
> This partnership will have no ill effect on NANOG conferences. The focus
> of these partnerships are on outreach, technical education and underserved
> communities in North America.
>
>
> *Edward McNair*
> Executive Director
>
> emcn...@nanog.org | +1 866-902-1336 ext. 102  | www.nanog.org
> NANOG | 305 E. Eisenhower Pkwy, Suite 100 | Ann Arbor, MI 48108, USA
>
> On Oct 4, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Mehmet Akcin  wrote:
>
> Icann meetings used to be great. They are horrible now with few exceptions
> of several technical sessions.
>
> I hope this don’t ruin nanog meetings
>
> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:08 J. Hellenthal via NANOG 
> wrote:
>
>> You mean they could not come together enough to share even the same page
>> yet even a domain name or central corporation to oversee these needs ?
>>
>> Personally I'm calling partially "bullshit" the Matthew McConaughey way!
>>
>> --
>>  J. Hellenthal
>>
>> The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven
>> says a lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>>
>> > On Oct 4, 2021, at 09:33, Patrick W. Gilmore  wrote:
>> >
>> > NANOG’s version:
>> https://www.nanog.org/stories/nanog-signs-a-memorandum-of-understanding-with-internet-society-icann/
>> >
>> > --
>> > TTFN,
>> > patrick
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Oct 4, 2021, at 4:42 AM, Hank Nussbacher 
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-signs-a-memorandum-of-understanding-with-nanog-27-9-2021-en
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Hank
>> >
>>
> --
> Mehmet
> +1-424-298-1903
>
>
>
>

-- 
The computing scientist’s main challenge is not to get confused by the
complexities of his own making.
  -- E. W. Dijkstra

Re: FYI: NANOG and ICANN

[Owen DeLong via NANOG]

I see this as a way to allow NANOG to help channel some of ICANN’s incredible 
excess of funding
towards more useful pursuits than those ICANN has endowed so far.

Owen


> On Oct 4, 2021, at 9:27 AM, Edward McNair  wrote:
> 
> This partnership will have no ill effect on NANOG conferences. The focus of 
> these partnerships are on outreach, technical education and underserved 
> communities in North America.
> 
> 
> Edward McNair
> Executive Director
> 
> emcn...@nanog.org  | +1 866-902-1336 ext. 102  | 
> www.nanog.org 
> NANOG | 305 E. Eisenhower Pkwy, Suite 100 | Ann Arbor, MI 48108, USA
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2021, at 9:12 AM, Mehmet Akcin > > wrote:
>> 
>> Icann meetings used to be great. They are horrible now with few exceptions 
>> of several technical sessions.
>> 
>> I hope this don’t ruin nanog meetings
>> 
>> On Mon, Oct 4, 2021 at 12:08 J. Hellenthal via NANOG > > wrote:
>> You mean they could not come together enough to share even the same page yet 
>> even a domain name or central corporation to oversee these needs ?
>> 
>> Personally I'm calling partially "bullshit" the Matthew McConaughey way!
>> 
>> -- 
>>  J. Hellenthal
>> 
>> The fact that there's a highway to Hell but only a stairway to Heaven says a 
>> lot about anticipated traffic volume.
>> 
>> > On Oct 4, 2021, at 09:33, Patrick W. Gilmore > > > wrote:
>> > 
>> > NANOG’s version: 
>> > https://www.nanog.org/stories/nanog-signs-a-memorandum-of-understanding-with-internet-society-icann/
>> >  
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > TTFN,
>> > patrick
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> On Oct 4, 2021, at 4:42 AM, Hank Nussbacher > >> > wrote:
>> >> 
>> >> https://www.icann.org/en/announcements/details/icann-signs-a-memorandum-of-understanding-with-nanog-27-9-2021-en
>> >>  
>> >> 
>> >> 
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Hank
>> > 
>> -- 
>> Mehmet
>> +1-424-298-1903
> 

Weekly Global IPv4 Routing Table Report

[Routing Analysis Role Account]

This is an automated weekly mailing describing the state of the Internet
Global IPv4 Routing Table as seen from APNIC's router in Japan.

The posting is sent to APOPS, NANOG, AfNOG, SANOG, PacNOG, SAFNOG
TZNOG, MENOG, BJNOG, SDNOG, CMNOG, LACNOG and the RIPE Routing WG.

Daily listings are sent to bgp-st...@lists.apnic.net

For historical data, please see http://thyme.rand.apnic.net.

If you have any comments please contact Philip Smith .

Global IPv4 Routing Table Report   04:00 +10GMT Sat 09 Oct, 2021

Report Website: http://thyme.rand.apnic.net
Detailed Analysis:  http://thyme.rand.apnic.net/current/

Analysis Summary


BGP routing table entries examined:  865799
Prefixes after maximum aggregation (per Origin AS):  328037
Deaggregation factor:  2.64
Unique aggregates announced (without unneeded subnets):  417220
Total ASes present in the Internet Routing Table: 72037
Prefixes per ASN: 12.02
Origin-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   61895
Origin ASes announcing only one prefix:   25518
Transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   10142
Transit-only ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:342
Average AS path length visible in the Internet Routing Table:   4.3
Max AS path length visible:  53
Max AS path prepend of ASN (265020)  50
Prefixes from unregistered ASNs in the Routing Table:   977
Number of instances of unregistered ASNs:   981
Number of 32-bit ASNs allocated by the RIRs:  37427
Number of 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:   31091
Prefixes from 32-bit ASNs in the Routing Table:  144662
Number of bogon 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:28
Special use prefixes present in the Routing Table:1
Prefixes being announced from unallocated address space:515
Number of addresses announced to Internet:   3069966592
Equivalent to 182 /8s, 251 /16s and 249 /24s
Percentage of available address space announced:   82.9
Percentage of allocated address space announced:   82.9
Percentage of available address space allocated:  100.0
Percentage of address space in use by end-sites:   99.5
Total number of prefixes smaller than registry allocations:  287724

APNIC Region Analysis Summary
-

Prefixes being announced by APNIC Region ASes:   231808
Total APNIC prefixes after maximum aggregation:   66263
APNIC Deaggregation factor:3.50
Prefixes being announced from the APNIC address blocks:  227275
Unique aggregates announced from the APNIC address blocks:92050
APNIC Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   12003
APNIC Prefixes per ASN:   18.93
APNIC Region origin ASes announcing only one prefix:   3416
APNIC Region transit ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:   1688
Average APNIC Region AS path length visible:4.5
Max APNIC Region AS path length visible: 37
Number of APNIC region 32-bit ASNs visible in the Routing Table:   7169
Number of APNIC addresses announced to Internet:  772148352
Equivalent to 46 /8s, 6 /16s and 12 /24s
APNIC AS Blocks4608-4864, 7467-7722, 9216-10239, 17408-18431
(pre-ERX allocations)  23552-24575, 37888-38911, 45056-46079, 55296-56319,
   58368-59391, 63488-64098, 64297-64395, 131072-147769
APNIC Address Blocks 1/8,  14/8,  27/8,  36/8,  39/8,  42/8,  43/8,
49/8,  58/8,  59/8,  60/8,  61/8, 101/8, 103/8,
   106/8, 110/8, 111/8, 112/8, 113/8, 114/8, 115/8,
   116/8, 117/8, 118/8, 119/8, 120/8, 121/8, 122/8,
   123/8, 124/8, 125/8, 126/8, 133/8, 150/8, 153/8,
   163/8, 171/8, 175/8, 180/8, 182/8, 183/8, 202/8,
   203/8, 210/8, 211/8, 218/8, 219/8, 220/8, 221/8,
   222/8, 223/8,

ARIN Region Analysis Summary


Prefixes being announced by ARIN Region ASes:253515
Total ARIN prefixes after maximum aggregation:   116297
ARIN Deaggregation factor: 2.18
Prefixes being announced from the ARIN address blocks:   253446
Unique aggregates announced from the ARIN address blocks:120928
ARIN Region origin ASes present in the Internet Routing Table:18893
ARIN Prefixes per ASN: 

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Andy Ringsmuth]

> On Oct 8, 2021, at 11:22 AM, Sabri Berisha  wrote:
> 
> - On Oct 8, 2021, at 7:18 AM, Mark Tinka mark@tinka.africa wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>> So we are reviewing our flow data, and it's very clear, on our network, that
>> during the period Facebook were experiencing their global outage, Netflix
>> traffic went up 3X for us.
> 
> Who says they were ... ahem ... watching? :)
> 
> I'd be interested to see global birth rates in June 2022...
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sabri

Well, I did just see a story that PornHub’s traffic increased by about 10 
percent during that time…



-Andy

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

[Christopher Morrow]

(I'm going to hate myself in the morning, but)

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 10:22 AM Masataka Ohta <
mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> wrote:

> William Herrin wrote:
>
>
> https://engineering.fb.com/2021/10/05/networking-traffic/outage-details/
>
> our DNS servers disable those BGP advertisements if they
> themselves can not speak to our data centers
>
> The end result was that our DNS servers became unreachable
> even though they were still operational.
>
> means their DNS servers were serving the zone, even after
> they recognize their zone data were too old, that is, expired.
>
>
that's not what this means. I think Mr. Petach previously described this,
but:
  1) dns server in pop serves some content (ttls aren't important right now)
  2) dns server uses some quagga/gated/bird/etc to announce locally: "Hey,
foo/32 here!"
  (imagine this triggers an 'aggregate route' or 'network statement'
(pick your vendor solution) to appear in the global table)
  3) dns server also 'ping backend server set'
  4) when 3 fails for X period of time 'tell quagga/bird/etc to stop
announcing the /32'

then the local pop no longer sources the aggregate (/24 or /23 or
whatever)... so traffic SHOULD (externally)
flow toward another copy of the /23 or /24 or whatever...

there's not a lot of magic here... and it's not about the zone data really
at all.

Spoofer Report for NANOG for Sep 2021

[CAIDA Spoofer Project]

In response to feedback from operational security communities,
CAIDA's source address validation measurement project
(https://spoofer.caida.org) is automatically generating monthly
reports of ASes originating prefixes in BGP for systems from which
we received packets with a spoofed source address.
We are publishing these reports to network and security operations
lists in order to ensure this information reaches operational
contacts in these ASes.

This report summarises tests conducted within usa, can.

Inferred improvements during Sep 2021:
ASNName   Fixed-By
8038   6CONNECT   2021-09-08
208188 PUGET-SOUND-NETWORKS   2021-09-28

Further information for the inferred remediation is available at:
https://spoofer.caida.org/remedy.php

Source Address Validation issues inferred during Sep 2021:
ASNName   First-Spoofed Last-Spoofed
6939   HURRICANE 2016-02-22   2021-09-15
209CENTURYLINK-US-LEGACY-QWEST   2016-08-16   2021-09-29
20412  CLARITY-TELECOM   2016-09-30   2021-09-30
6181   FUSE-NET  2016-10-10   2021-09-30
11427  TWC-11427-TEXAS   2016-10-21   2021-09-28
22898  ATLINK2016-12-16   2021-09-25
701UUNET 2017-06-14   2021-09-13
63296  AWBROADBAND   2017-09-01   2021-09-24
23089  HOTWIRE-COMMUNICATIONS2017-09-30   2021-09-24
546PARSONS-PGS-1 2017-11-20   2021-09-24
1  AKAMAI2018-02-14   2021-09-23
393564 SPOKANE   2018-06-05   2021-09-28
33452  RW2018-09-19   2021-09-28
8047   GCI   2019-04-11   2021-09-17
62904  EONIX-COMMUNICATIONS-ASBLOCK-62019-07-14   2021-09-28
5078   ONENET-AS-1   2020-04-06   2021-09-23
11650  PLDI  2020-05-25   2021-09-10
398836 NP-NETWORKS   2021-03-12   2021-09-17
56207  Converge  2021-03-26   2021-09-14
13876  FIBER-64  2021-05-20   2021-09-11
399318   2021-08-29   2021-09-30
268206 Community Net Internet e Infor2021-08-30   2021-09-28
18450  WEBNX 2021-09-01   2021-09-16
399804   2021-09-04   2021-09-04
63457  EMPIRE-CONNECT2021-09-08   2021-09-29
398355 DATAIDEAS-LLC 2021-09-10   2021-09-10
211562   2021-09-23   2021-09-23
264872 Brothers Lan House Ltda Me2021-09-28   2021-09-28
33258  CSONLINE-AS-1 2021-09-28   2021-09-28

Further information for these tests where we received spoofed
packets is available at:
https://spoofer.caida.org/recent_tests.php?country_include=usa,can&no_block=1

Please send any feedback or suggestions to spoofer-i...@caida.org

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/8/21 18:22, Sabri Berisha wrote:


Who says they were ... ahem ... watching? :)


I considered that... and decided that scrolling the Netflix library 
doesn't create that much data :-).


Of course, who pays 100% attention anymore these days. You've watched an 
episode if it was playing. Whether you actually saw it or not, is 
irrelevant :-).


Perhaps folk were watching "How to fix Facebook on your iThingy".




I'd be interested to see global birth rates in June 2022...


Hehehe

Mark.

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Sabri Berisha]

- On Oct 8, 2021, at 7:18 AM, Mark Tinka mark@tinka.africa wrote:

Hi,

> So we are reviewing our flow data, and it's very clear, on our network, that
> during the period Facebook were experiencing their global outage, Netflix
> traffic went up 3X for us.

Who says they were ... ahem ... watching? :)

I'd be interested to see global birth rates in June 2022...

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Tom Beecher]

>
> Look, I like all this traffic, and it brings in revenue for my business.
> But I'm starting to wonder whether it's all worth it, if we end up
> creating a generation with significantly less brain function, for the
> first time in our evolution, less than 50, 60, 70 years from now.
>

I feel you man. I've had plenty of existential crisis moments in the last
handful of years. I enjoy what I do and the compensation/opportunities that
come with it, and it is always amazing to see some of the wonderful things
that have happened in the world because of all the work that has been put
in to connect people. But it often bothers me that at the same time it's
helped more nefarious elements of societies to connect more easily too, and
enabled them to do more bad things more easily.

Overall I do think the good outweighs the bad , but occasionally things
happen in the world that make me really wonder. I'm sure my therapist is
sick of hearing about it by now. :p

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 11:40 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 10/8/21 17:26, Tom Beecher wrote:
>
> > There is already lots of published research on social media addiction
> > that does call it out just that strongly.
>
> Oh no, I didn't mean that the research to link social media addiction to
> long-term mental harm does not exist. It's just that such research will
> be ignored or buried under piles of stone to never see the light of
> common day, so that BigCorporate can keep cashing in on our addictions.
>
> As a practical example of life-saving research-stomping, between the
> US$1.5 trillion food industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the medical
> fraternity and the medical insurance companies, there is a reason why
> the globe spends US$1 billion on insulin therapy for Type 2 Diabetes.
> Every. Single. Day. And the research about how T2D can be successfully
> reversed, through diet alone, has been around for over a decade:
>
>
> https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/lifestyle/health-fitness/how-i-reversed-diabetes-3449528
>
>
> >
> > There is a reason why that company has started going to great lengths
> > in recent years to make it harder for outside researchers to do
> > similar work.
>
> Exactly my point, above.
>
> And sadly, little young Jane + Thabo won't be looking for social media
> feeds on how to get their social media addiction under control.
>
> Look, I like all this traffic, and it brings in revenue for my business.
> But I'm starting to wonder whether it's all worth it, if we end up
> creating a generation with significantly less brain function, for the
> first time in our evolution, less than 50, 60, 70 years from now.
>
> Mark.
>

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/8/21 17:26, Tom Beecher wrote:

There is already lots of published research on social media addiction 
that does call it out just that strongly.


Oh no, I didn't mean that the research to link social media addiction to 
long-term mental harm does not exist. It's just that such research will 
be ignored or buried under piles of stone to never see the light of 
common day, so that BigCorporate can keep cashing in on our addictions.


As a practical example of life-saving research-stomping, between the 
US$1.5 trillion food industry, the pharmaceutical industry, the medical 
fraternity and the medical insurance companies, there is a reason why 
the globe spends US$1 billion on insulin therapy for Type 2 Diabetes. 
Every. Single. Day. And the research about how T2D can be successfully 
reversed, through diet alone, has been around for over a decade:


https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/bd/lifestyle/health-fitness/how-i-reversed-diabetes-3449528




There is a reason why that company has started going to great lengths 
in recent years to make it harder for outside researchers to do 
similar work.


Exactly my point, above.

And sadly, little young Jane + Thabo won't be looking for social media 
feeds on how to get their social media addiction under control.


Look, I like all this traffic, and it brings in revenue for my business. 
But I'm starting to wonder whether it's all worth it, if we end up 
creating a generation with significantly less brain function, for the 
first time in our evolution, less than 50, 60, 70 years from now.


Mark.

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Tom Beecher]

>
> Which they probably will, but it won't be labeled as dangerous or
> leading to immediate mental harm.
>

There is already lots of published research on social media addiction that
does call it out just that strongly.

There is a reason why that company has started going to great lengths in
recent years to make it harder for outside researchers to do similar work.

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 11:22 AM Mark Tinka  wrote:

>
>
> On 10/8/21 17:07, cosmo wrote:
>
> > A psychologist would probably describe this as "self soothing behavior"
> >
> > An addiction specialist would identify it as illicit drug substitution
> > : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7370931/
>
> Which they probably will, but it won't be labeled as dangerous or
> leading to immediate mental harm. And as such, will fly under the radar
> as an addiction that needs to be managed in the same way we manage
> opioid addiction, heroine addiction, sex addiction, alcohol addiction,
> nicotine addiction, e.t.c. All the stuff we have anonymous groups and
> sponsors for.
>
> Mark.
>

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/8/21 17:12, Tom Beecher wrote:

Yeah.. I mean people couldn't get stuck in the DoomScroll, so they 
chose to do something else. I'm sure plenty of people did something 
besides Netflix.


For sure.

We just happened to measure Netflix on our side. I'm certain other 
operators measuring other apps likely saw the same thing.


Mark.

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/8/21 17:07, cosmo wrote:


A psychologist would probably describe this as "self soothing behavior"

An addiction specialist would identify it as illicit drug substitution 
: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7370931/


Which they probably will, but it won't be labeled as dangerous or 
leading to immediate mental harm. And as such, will fly under the radar 
as an addiction that needs to be managed in the same way we manage 
opioid addiction, heroine addiction, sex addiction, alcohol addiction, 
nicotine addiction, e.t.c. All the stuff we have anonymous groups and 
sponsors for.


Mark.

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Mark Tinka]

On 10/8/21 16:34, Steven Bakker via NANOG wrote:

My inner cynic is interpreting this data a bit differently. Instead of 
going out for a walk or just engage in the gentle art of doing 
nothing, the social media users need something to keep their minds 
distracted from the here and now. Anything to avoid having to do any 
kind of self-reflection or, heaven forbid, live in the moment. And I 
fear that it doesn't apply to adolescents only...


Your reflection is the same as mine - we enjoy sedentary lives, staring 
at some kind of electronic. No doubt about that. It's not unlike why 
most people that give up cigarettes end up gaining weight, because they 
give up nicotine, and replace it with chronic excessive consumption of 
carbohydrates :-).


However, if we are going to Netflix as an alternative to "scrolling 
through time lines like droids on a train", then perhaps something that 
stimulates our brain and prevents it from shrinking due to a lack of 
complex body movements that the brain is mainly designed to manage, is 
what Netflix could look into, for humanity's sake.


Mark.

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Tom Beecher]

Yeah.. I mean people couldn't get stuck in the DoomScroll, so they chose to
do something else. I'm sure plenty of people did something besides Netflix.

On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 10:35 AM Steven Bakker via NANOG 
wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> On Fri, 2021-10-08 at 16:18 +0200, Mark Tinka wrote:
>
> Could Netflix, perhaps, play a part in mitigating the increasing impact of
> social media addiction in teenagers, whose young brains aren't developed
> enough to have sufficient executive control, impulse control and good
> judgement?
>
>
> My inner cynic is interpreting this data a bit differently. Instead of
> going out for a walk or just engage in the gentle art of doing nothing, the
> social media users need something to keep their minds distracted from the
> here and now. Anything to avoid having to do any kind of self-reflection
> or, heaven forbid, live in the moment. And I fear that it doesn't apply to
> adolescents only...
>
> Best,
>
> Steven
>

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[cosmo]

A psychologist would probably describe this as "self soothing behavior"

An addiction specialist would identify it as illicit drug substitution :
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7370931/




On Fri, Oct 8, 2021, 7:37 AM Steven Bakker via NANOG 
wrote:

> Hi Mark,
>
> On Fri, 2021-10-08 at 16:18 +0200, Mark Tinka wrote:
>
> Could Netflix, perhaps, play a part in mitigating the increasing impact of
> social media addiction in teenagers, whose young brains aren't developed
> enough to have sufficient executive control, impulse control and good
> judgement?
>
>
> My inner cynic is interpreting this data a bit differently. Instead of
> going out for a walk or just engage in the gentle art of doing nothing, the
> social media users need something to keep their minds distracted from the
> here and now. Anything to avoid having to do any kind of self-reflection
> or, heaven forbid, live in the moment. And I fear that it doesn't apply to
> adolescents only...
>
> Best,
>
> Steven
>

Re: What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Steven Bakker via NANOG]

Hi Mark,

On Fri, 2021-10-08 at 16:18 +0200, Mark Tinka wrote:
Could Netflix, perhaps, play a part in mitigating the increasing impact of 
social media addiction in teenagers, whose young brains aren't developed enough 
to have sufficient executive control, impulse control and good judgement?

My inner cynic is interpreting this data a bit differently. Instead of going 
out for a walk or just engage in the gentle art of doing nothing, the social 
media users need something to keep their minds distracted from the here and 
now. Anything to avoid having to do any kind of self-reflection or, heaven 
forbid, live in the moment. And I fear that it doesn't apply to adolescents 
only...

Best,

Steven

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

[Masataka Ohta]

William Herrin wrote:


If they are not using standard expire mechanism expecting
internal data still accessible even after external data
has expired, there is difference.


I give up.


To accept the reality of disastrous facebook failure? I know.


Although you have no knowledge whatsoever about how
Facebook implemented their DNS


   https://engineering.fb.com/2021/10/05/networking-traffic/outage-details/

   our DNS servers disable those BGP advertisements if they
   themselves can not speak to our data centers

   The end result was that our DNS servers became unreachable
   even though they were still operational.

means their DNS servers were serving the zone, even after
they recognize their zone data were too old, that is, expired.


you are obviously correct in all things.


If you think so, it's your problem, I'm afraid.

Masataka Ohta

What Eyeballs Did During The Facebook Nap

[Mark Tinka]

So we are reviewing our flow data, and it's very clear, on our network, 
that during the period Facebook were experiencing their global outage, 
Netflix traffic went up 3X for us.


The psychological assessment of this, for me, is most interesting; 
especially because like carbohydrates, social media addiction does not 
create "medically immediate" mental harm, unlike other addictions such 
as cocaine, heroine, crystal meth, LSD, alcohol, e.t.c., which 
governments and the medical fraternity are quick to label as "dangerous 
to human health due to their addictive properties".


Could Netflix, perhaps, play a part in mitigating the increasing impact 
of social media addiction in teenagers, whose young brains aren't 
developed enough to have sufficient executive control, impulse control 
and good judgement?


In the words of Spock, "Fascinating!"

Mark.

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

[Tom Beecher]

>
> In facebook case, it was combined with poor understanding
> on short/long expiration period to cause the disaster.
>

Still, no.

The CAUSE of the outage was all of the FB datacenters being completely
disconnected from their backbone, and thus the internet. DNS breaking was a
direct RESULT of that. Even if FB's DNS was happily still providing answers
to IPs that were still unreachable, they were still horked.

Could their DNS design possibly have contributed to some delay in the
RESTORATION phase? Perhaps. But with the volume of traffic they do, that
was certainly going to take a while anyways.


On Fri, Oct 8, 2021 at 5:17 AM Masataka Ohta <
mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp> wrote:

> Sabri Berisha wrote:
>
> > Let's for a moment contemplate about the sheer magnitude of
> > their operation. With almost 3 billion users worldwide, can you imagine
> the
> > amount of DNS queries they have to process? Their scale is unprecedented.
> That's what I predicted about 20 years ago, which is why
> I proposed to have anycast name servers analyzing its
> implications.
>
> As such I'm sure anycast route withdrawal ignoring rfc3258
> is poor engineering.
>
> Scalable solutions can be constructed only with careful
> theoretical analysis, against which random hacks, which
> may work 99% of the time, are just harmful.
>
> In facebook case, it was combined with poor understanding
> on short/long expiration period to cause the disaster.
>
> Masataka Ohta
>

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

[William Herrin]

On Thu, Oct 7, 2021 at 9:04 PM Masataka Ohta
 wrote:
> William Herrin wrote:
> > Facebook withdrawing the BGP
> > routes to its anycasted public DNS servers as they expired made no
> > difference.
>
> If they are not using standard expire mechanism expecting
> internal data still accessible even after external data
> has expired, there is difference.

I give up. Although you have no knowledge whatsoever about how
Facebook implemented their DNS you are obviously correct in all
things.



--
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

[Carsten Bormann]

On 2021-10-08, at 07:25, Sabri Berisha  wrote:
> 
> Whenever there is an aviation incident, the keyboard warriors at pprune.org
> are always the first to start speculating about root causes

So we need an NTSB, BFU, ... for the Internet and widely used Internet 
applications.  
(And the other national equivalents…)

A site like avherald.com would also be useful (minor todo: Find someone as 
dedicated as Simon Hradecky to run it).

Grüße, Carsten

Re: DNS pulling BGP routes?

[Masataka Ohta]

Sabri Berisha wrote:


Let's for a moment contemplate about the sheer magnitude of
their operation. With almost 3 billion users worldwide, can you imagine the
amount of DNS queries they have to process? Their scale is unprecedented.

That's what I predicted about 20 years ago, which is why
I proposed to have anycast name servers analyzing its
implications.

As such I'm sure anycast route withdrawal ignoring rfc3258
is poor engineering.

Scalable solutions can be constructed only with careful
theoretical analysis, against which random hacks, which
may work 99% of the time, are just harmful.

In facebook case, it was combined with poor understanding
on short/long expiration period to cause the disaster.

Masataka Ohta