Re: [c-nsp] Leaked Video or Not (Linux and Cisco for internal Sales folks)
What do you mean ? Examples of Telemetry use cases are infinite? Are you asking for popular use cases that were not possible with snmp and netflow? Cheers On Sunday, August 5, 2018, Sami Joseph wrote: > On the topic of marketing hypes vs real requirements, does anyone see real > use cases for telemetry ? Can anyone pls give me examples? > > Thanks > > On Sunday, July 8, 2018, wrote: > >> > From: Marcus Leske [mailto:marcusles...@gmail.com] >> > Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2018 3:58 PM >> > >> > open APIs tops that funny abuse list IMHO : >> > https://github.com/OAI/OpenAPI-Specification/issues/568 >> > >> > can we change the topic of the thread to an informative one, instead of >> a >> > leaked video or not, to why exactly do network engineers are often >> > confused by the abusive marketing all over the place of what is open and >> > what is not and other computing terms. >> > >> > I guess this is happening in networking more often than other domains >> > because networking people didnt get a chance in their career to learn >> about >> > the world of computing, their heads were somewhere else, learning about >> > complex networking protocols and not the common computing interfaces, >> > the open source world, existing frameworks and paradigms, this video >> helps >> > a bit on how did this happen: >> > https://vimeo.com/262190505https://vimeo.com/262190505 >> > >> > has anyone here seen list of topics that network engineers usually miss >> on >> > their journey ? i know they never get exposed to software development >> > and engineering in general, databases, web technologies, operating >> system >> > fundamentals. >> > >> Well I guess if you stick around in networking for long time you kind of >> get exposed to some of these to a certain level on a day job, some of it >> was covered in school in various levels of detail, and to some of these >> concepts we (networkers) get a specific very narrow filed exposure I'd say, >> like in your example of databases -well various protocol tables are good >> examples of decentralized distributed databases, then some Network OS-es >> are good examples of distributed operating systems. So I guess it then just >> boils down to the willingness of and individual to understand these >> concepts on an ever more fundamental level -with every next interaction >> with these. Maybe it draws one more towards the software development side >> or perhaps more towards the somewhat holistic understanding of the >> networking discipline through graph theory and complex adaptive systems. >> >> >> adam >> >> netconsultings.com >> ::carrier-class solutions for the telecommunications industry:: >> >> >> ___ >> cisco-nsp mailing list cisco-...@puck.nether.net >> https://puck.nether.net/mailman/listinfo/cisco-nsp >> archive at http://puck.nether.net/pipermail/cisco-nsp/ >> >
Re: [c-nsp] Leaked Video or Not (Linux and Cisco for internal Sales folks)
You can certainly add 'security' to the list. I don't mean 'network security' here but 'information security' as a whole. A lot of vendors (notably AV) uses of a lot of marketing terms and they also play with the fears of people to sell their (insert revolutionary) products/solutions. Some of them could be rather useless in a security standpoint, especially if not properly tuned and configured. It can bring a false sense of security which is sometimes worst than a sense of security at all. My two cent.. On 07/07/18 16:57, Marcus Leske wrote: > open APIs tops that funny abuse list IMHO : > https://github.com/OAI/OpenAPI-Specification/issues/568 > > can we change the topic of the thread to an informative one, instead > of a leaked video or not, to why exactly do network engineers are > often confused by the abusive marketing all over the place of what is > open and what is not and other computing terms. > > I guess this is happening in networking more often than other domains > because networking people didnt get a chance in their career to learn > about the world of computing, their heads were somewhere else, > learning about complex networking protocols and not the common > computing interfaces, the open source world, existing frameworks and > paradigms, this video helps a bit on how did this happen: > https://vimeo.com/262190505https://vimeo.com/262190505 > > has anyone here seen list of topics that network engineers usually > miss on their journey ? i know they never get exposed to software > development and engineering in general, databases, web technologies, > operating system fundamentals. > > opinions ? > > danke, > markus > > On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Matt Erculiani wrote: >> Unfortunately, like many other industry terms, "open" is becoming a >> meaningless marketing buzzword much like "cloud", "converged", even >> "redundancy" or any other technical term that has had its definition >> diluted as time goes on. We're all well aware on the ISP side that it >> only takes one Fortune 500 to start using a buzzword incorrectly, then >> the rest of the big guys all the way to mom and pop shops around the >> world start using it in the same context. Unfortunately I don't see >> any end to this trend in sight. >> >>"...fingerprints is took, days is lost, bail is made, court >> dates are ignored, cycle is repeated." >> - Early Cuyler >> >> -Matt >> >> On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Tails Pipes wrote: >>> No, things changed there as well. Lookup merchant sillicon, and revise this >>> post every 6 months. have you heard of Barefoot networks? The days of ASICs >>> from Cisco are gone and we are glad, we tested the P4 DSL (cisco never got >>> that right with mantel) on Nexus and its wonderful. >>> >>> The asics you speak of are no longer important or valuable because people >>> realized that in many networking planets and galaxies, the asic is reflects >>> the network design, they are related, and specifically for the data center, >>> the clos fabric design won, and that does not require fancy asics. >>> I guess your knowledge is out dated a bit. Cisco itself is using those >>> merchant sillicon ASICs happily. (lookup Chuck's comments on nexus9000, >>> best selling cisco switch ever)...guess it is a good switch, because bright >>> box pushed cisco to do that, and if any one on this list can disagree with >>> me here, i'm up to that challenge. >>> >>> What i have discovered recently is that things happen in following way. >>> >>> Your boss or his boss picks a work culture (no one gets fired for buying >>> IBM/Cisco), that culture (buying the shiny suits) impacts how you do work, >>> it makes you select vendors (the ones that sends me to vegas every year) >>> and not the right network design, you select cisco and you are stuck there >>> for life, because once they tell you how things should work (aka : >>> certificates), things are worse, now every time you make a new network >>> purchase (afraid of new CLI ), you will not be able to look the other way >>> because you just dont know any thing else (and loosing your certificate >>> value). >>> >>> I wish the culture would change to, no one got fired for buying closed but >>> didnt get promoted either. change requires boldness. >>> >>> https://toolr.io/2018/06/18/stop-abusing-the-word-open/ >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:41 AM, wrote: >>> > Tails Pipes > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 3:00 PM > > can you easily answer this question ? why packets are not pushed in linux ? > is it because of big switch, cumulus, pica8 ? > > can you push packets in linux without writing code to do that ? who is writing > that code ? > > this is supposedly a community effort, something that older generations > dont understand. > If pure linux as NOS has some legs it'll fly regardless of cisco blessing, don't worry no single company owns the whole industry. A
Re: [c-nsp] Leaked Video or Not (Linux and Cisco for internal Sales folks)
open APIs tops that funny abuse list IMHO : https://github.com/OAI/OpenAPI-Specification/issues/568 can we change the topic of the thread to an informative one, instead of a leaked video or not, to why exactly do network engineers are often confused by the abusive marketing all over the place of what is open and what is not and other computing terms. I guess this is happening in networking more often than other domains because networking people didnt get a chance in their career to learn about the world of computing, their heads were somewhere else, learning about complex networking protocols and not the common computing interfaces, the open source world, existing frameworks and paradigms, this video helps a bit on how did this happen: https://vimeo.com/262190505https://vimeo.com/262190505 has anyone here seen list of topics that network engineers usually miss on their journey ? i know they never get exposed to software development and engineering in general, databases, web technologies, operating system fundamentals. opinions ? danke, markus On Mon, Jul 2, 2018 at 12:25 PM, Matt Erculiani wrote: > Unfortunately, like many other industry terms, "open" is becoming a > meaningless marketing buzzword much like "cloud", "converged", even > "redundancy" or any other technical term that has had its definition > diluted as time goes on. We're all well aware on the ISP side that it > only takes one Fortune 500 to start using a buzzword incorrectly, then > the rest of the big guys all the way to mom and pop shops around the > world start using it in the same context. Unfortunately I don't see > any end to this trend in sight. > >"...fingerprints is took, days is lost, bail is made, court > dates are ignored, cycle is repeated." > - Early Cuyler > > -Matt > > On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Tails Pipes wrote: >> No, things changed there as well. Lookup merchant sillicon, and revise this >> post every 6 months. have you heard of Barefoot networks? The days of ASICs >> from Cisco are gone and we are glad, we tested the P4 DSL (cisco never got >> that right with mantel) on Nexus and its wonderful. >> >> The asics you speak of are no longer important or valuable because people >> realized that in many networking planets and galaxies, the asic is reflects >> the network design, they are related, and specifically for the data center, >> the clos fabric design won, and that does not require fancy asics. >> I guess your knowledge is out dated a bit. Cisco itself is using those >> merchant sillicon ASICs happily. (lookup Chuck's comments on nexus9000, >> best selling cisco switch ever)...guess it is a good switch, because bright >> box pushed cisco to do that, and if any one on this list can disagree with >> me here, i'm up to that challenge. >> >> What i have discovered recently is that things happen in following way. >> >> Your boss or his boss picks a work culture (no one gets fired for buying >> IBM/Cisco), that culture (buying the shiny suits) impacts how you do work, >> it makes you select vendors (the ones that sends me to vegas every year) >> and not the right network design, you select cisco and you are stuck there >> for life, because once they tell you how things should work (aka : >> certificates), things are worse, now every time you make a new network >> purchase (afraid of new CLI ), you will not be able to look the other way >> because you just dont know any thing else (and loosing your certificate >> value). >> >> I wish the culture would change to, no one got fired for buying closed but >> didnt get promoted either. change requires boldness. >> >> https://toolr.io/2018/06/18/stop-abusing-the-word-open/ >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:41 AM, wrote: >> >>> > Tails Pipes >>> > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 3:00 PM >>> > >>> > can you easily answer this question ? why packets are not pushed in >>> linux ? >>> > is it because of big switch, cumulus, pica8 ? >>> > >>> > can you push packets in linux without writing code to do that ? who is >>> writing >>> > that code ? >>> > >>> > this is supposedly a community effort, something that older generations >>> > dont understand. >>> > >>> If pure linux as NOS has some legs it'll fly regardless of cisco blessing, >>> don't worry no single company owns the whole industry. >>> Also we can argue that this is only about the OS but in reality it's also >>> the quality of apps running on top and the quality of the underlying HW >>> that plays a major role. >>> The quality of BGP app for instance, or the ability of the forwarding ASIC >>> to deliver the stated pps rate even if multiple features are enabled or >>> protect high priority traffic even if ASIC is overloaded. >>> >>> >>> Oh and with regards to: >>> < I am sick of having to learn all the cisco specific terms to all sorts >>> of different boxes and technologies >>> I'd recommend you read all the cisco books on networking to get yourself >>> educated on the topic and to get t
Re: [c-nsp] Leaked Video or Not (Linux and Cisco for internal Sales folks)
Unfortunately, like many other industry terms, "open" is becoming a meaningless marketing buzzword much like "cloud", "converged", even "redundancy" or any other technical term that has had its definition diluted as time goes on. We're all well aware on the ISP side that it only takes one Fortune 500 to start using a buzzword incorrectly, then the rest of the big guys all the way to mom and pop shops around the world start using it in the same context. Unfortunately I don't see any end to this trend in sight. "...fingerprints is took, days is lost, bail is made, court dates are ignored, cycle is repeated." - Early Cuyler -Matt On Thu, Jun 28, 2018 at 11:29 AM, Tails Pipes wrote: > No, things changed there as well. Lookup merchant sillicon, and revise this > post every 6 months. have you heard of Barefoot networks? The days of ASICs > from Cisco are gone and we are glad, we tested the P4 DSL (cisco never got > that right with mantel) on Nexus and its wonderful. > > The asics you speak of are no longer important or valuable because people > realized that in many networking planets and galaxies, the asic is reflects > the network design, they are related, and specifically for the data center, > the clos fabric design won, and that does not require fancy asics. > I guess your knowledge is out dated a bit. Cisco itself is using those > merchant sillicon ASICs happily. (lookup Chuck's comments on nexus9000, > best selling cisco switch ever)...guess it is a good switch, because bright > box pushed cisco to do that, and if any one on this list can disagree with > me here, i'm up to that challenge. > > What i have discovered recently is that things happen in following way. > > Your boss or his boss picks a work culture (no one gets fired for buying > IBM/Cisco), that culture (buying the shiny suits) impacts how you do work, > it makes you select vendors (the ones that sends me to vegas every year) > and not the right network design, you select cisco and you are stuck there > for life, because once they tell you how things should work (aka : > certificates), things are worse, now every time you make a new network > purchase (afraid of new CLI ), you will not be able to look the other way > because you just dont know any thing else (and loosing your certificate > value). > > I wish the culture would change to, no one got fired for buying closed but > didnt get promoted either. change requires boldness. > > https://toolr.io/2018/06/18/stop-abusing-the-word-open/ > > > > On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:41 AM, wrote: > >> > Tails Pipes >> > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 3:00 PM >> > >> > can you easily answer this question ? why packets are not pushed in >> linux ? >> > is it because of big switch, cumulus, pica8 ? >> > >> > can you push packets in linux without writing code to do that ? who is >> writing >> > that code ? >> > >> > this is supposedly a community effort, something that older generations >> > dont understand. >> > >> If pure linux as NOS has some legs it'll fly regardless of cisco blessing, >> don't worry no single company owns the whole industry. >> Also we can argue that this is only about the OS but in reality it's also >> the quality of apps running on top and the quality of the underlying HW >> that plays a major role. >> The quality of BGP app for instance, or the ability of the forwarding ASIC >> to deliver the stated pps rate even if multiple features are enabled or >> protect high priority traffic even if ASIC is overloaded. >> >> >> Oh and with regards to: >> < I am sick of having to learn all the cisco specific terms to all sorts >> of different boxes and technologies >> I'd recommend you read all the cisco books on networking to get yourself >> educated on the topic and to get the difference between SW and HW >> forwarding ( -on why packets are not routed in linux) >> And while on that I suggest you read all Stanford university lectures on >> how routers work too, it'll help you understand why Cisco and Juniper ASICs >> are so much more expensive than white-box ASICs. >> >> adam >> >> netconsultings.com >> ::carrier-class solutions for the telecommunications industry:: >> >> >>
Re: [c-nsp] Leaked Video or Not (Linux and Cisco for internal Sales folks)
No, things changed there as well. Lookup merchant sillicon, and revise this post every 6 months. have you heard of Barefoot networks? The days of ASICs from Cisco are gone and we are glad, we tested the P4 DSL (cisco never got that right with mantel) on Nexus and its wonderful. The asics you speak of are no longer important or valuable because people realized that in many networking planets and galaxies, the asic is reflects the network design, they are related, and specifically for the data center, the clos fabric design won, and that does not require fancy asics. I guess your knowledge is out dated a bit. Cisco itself is using those merchant sillicon ASICs happily. (lookup Chuck's comments on nexus9000, best selling cisco switch ever)...guess it is a good switch, because bright box pushed cisco to do that, and if any one on this list can disagree with me here, i'm up to that challenge. What i have discovered recently is that things happen in following way. Your boss or his boss picks a work culture (no one gets fired for buying IBM/Cisco), that culture (buying the shiny suits) impacts how you do work, it makes you select vendors (the ones that sends me to vegas every year) and not the right network design, you select cisco and you are stuck there for life, because once they tell you how things should work (aka : certificates), things are worse, now every time you make a new network purchase (afraid of new CLI ), you will not be able to look the other way because you just dont know any thing else (and loosing your certificate value). I wish the culture would change to, no one got fired for buying closed but didnt get promoted either. change requires boldness. https://toolr.io/2018/06/18/stop-abusing-the-word-open/ On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 9:41 AM, wrote: > > Tails Pipes > > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2018 3:00 PM > > > > can you easily answer this question ? why packets are not pushed in > linux ? > > is it because of big switch, cumulus, pica8 ? > > > > can you push packets in linux without writing code to do that ? who is > writing > > that code ? > > > > this is supposedly a community effort, something that older generations > > dont understand. > > > If pure linux as NOS has some legs it'll fly regardless of cisco blessing, > don't worry no single company owns the whole industry. > Also we can argue that this is only about the OS but in reality it's also > the quality of apps running on top and the quality of the underlying HW > that plays a major role. > The quality of BGP app for instance, or the ability of the forwarding ASIC > to deliver the stated pps rate even if multiple features are enabled or > protect high priority traffic even if ASIC is overloaded. > > > Oh and with regards to: > < I am sick of having to learn all the cisco specific terms to all sorts > of different boxes and technologies > I'd recommend you read all the cisco books on networking to get yourself > educated on the topic and to get the difference between SW and HW > forwarding ( -on why packets are not routed in linux) > And while on that I suggest you read all Stanford university lectures on > how routers work too, it'll help you understand why Cisco and Juniper ASICs > are so much more expensive than white-box ASICs. > > adam > > netconsultings.com > ::carrier-class solutions for the telecommunications industry:: > > >
