Running out of IPv6 (Re: ARIN IP6 policy for those with legacy IP4 Space)
[changing topics, so that it actually reflects the content] On 2010-04-08 20:33, William Herrin wrote: On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote: With IPv6 designed the way it is, is there a realistic chance of running out of IPv6 even if some questionable delegations are made? Joe, You're aware that RIPE has already made some /19 and /20 IPv6 allocations? Yes, with suitably questionable delegations, it is possible to run out of IPv6 quickly. Ever noticed that fat /13 for a certain military network in the ARIN region!? At least those /19 are justifyiable under the HD rules (XX million customers times a /48 and voila). A /13 though, very hard to justify... Also, please note that the current policies and waste (ahem) is only for 2000::/3, if that runs out we can take another 7 looks at how we should distribute address space without waste. Indeed the folks now getting IPv6 will have an IPv4 A-class advantage, but heck, if 2000::/3 is full, we finally can say we properly deployed IPv6 straight all around to the rest of the universe... Greets, Jeroen signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Running out of IPv6 (Re: ARIN IP6 policy for those with legacy IP4 Space)
On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 12:47, Jeroen Massar jer...@unfix.org wrote: [changing topics, so that it actually reflects the content] On 2010-04-08 20:33, William Herrin wrote: Yes, with suitably questionable delegations, it is possible to run out of IPv6 quickly. The bottom line (IMHO) is that IPv6 is NOT infinite and propagating that myth will lead to waste. That being said, the IPv6 space is MUCH larger than IPv4. Somewhere between 16 million and 17 billion times larger based on current standards by my math[1]. Ever noticed that fat /13 for a certain military network in the ARIN region!? At least those /19 are justifyiable under the HD rules (XX million customers times a /48 and voila). A /13 though, very hard to justify... Not every customer needs a /48. In fact most probably don't. Also, please note that the current policies and waste (ahem) is only for 2000::/3, if that runs out we can take another 7 looks at how we should distribute address space without waste. Indeed the folks now getting IPv6 will have an IPv4 A-class advantage, but heck, if 2000::/3 is full, we finally can say we properly deployed IPv6 straight all around to the rest of the universe... Very good point and likely our saving grace in v6. The space is big enough that we will get a sanity check after (possibly) burning through the first /3 much faster than expected. ~Chris [1] - How much IPv6 is there? http://weblog.chrisgrundemann.com/index.php/2009/how-much-ipv6-is-there/ Greets, Jeroen -- @ChrisGrundemann weblog.chrisgrundemann.com www.burningwiththebush.com www.coisoc.org
Re: Running out of IPv6 (Re: ARIN IP6 policy for those with legacy IP4 Space)
On Apr 8, 2010, at 8:47 AM, Jeroen Massar wrote: [changing topics, so that it actually reflects the content] On 2010-04-08 20:33, William Herrin wrote: You're aware that RIPE has already made some /19 and /20 IPv6 allocations? Yes, with suitably questionable delegations, it is possible to run out of IPv6 quickly. Ever noticed that fat /13 for a certain military network in the ARIN region!? I think that was William's point. At least those /19 are justifyiable under the HD rules (XX million customers times a /48 and voila). A /13 though, very hard to justify... Both are questionable, it's just a matter of degree. Also, please note that the current policies and waste (ahem) is only for 2000::/3, if that runs out we can take another 7 looks at how we should distribute address space without waste. Unfortunately, since address allocation policy is subject to the whims of the public policy definition process there is a risk (e.g., the proposal to allocate /24s of IPv6 if you knew the magic word or the proposals out of the ITU to allocate country blocks (/8s have been mentioned)). There is no finite resource that people can't waste. Regards, -drc
Re: Running out of IPv6 (Re: ARIN IP6 policy for those with legacy IP4 Space)
On Apr 8, 2010, at 12:10 PM, Chris Grundemann wrote: On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 12:47, Jeroen Massar jer...@unfix.org wrote: [changing topics, so that it actually reflects the content] On 2010-04-08 20:33, William Herrin wrote: Yes, with suitably questionable delegations, it is possible to run out of IPv6 quickly. The bottom line (IMHO) is that IPv6 is NOT infinite and propagating that myth will lead to waste. That being said, the IPv6 space is MUCH larger than IPv4. Somewhere between 16 million and 17 billion times larger based on current standards by my math[1]. Agreed Ever noticed that fat /13 for a certain military network in the ARIN region!? At least those /19 are justifyiable under the HD rules (XX million customers times a /48 and voila). A /13 though, very hard to justify... Not every customer needs a /48. In fact most probably don't. Whether they need it or not, it is common allocation/assignment practice. I agree that smaller (SOHO, for example) customers should get a /56 by default and a /48 on request, but, this is by no means a universal truth of current practice. Owen
