Re: [nanog-admin] NANOG Elections

2007-10-17 Thread Martin Hannigan
On 10/16/07, Jared Mauch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, Oct 16, 2007 at 01:03:36PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
  At 60 votes, that's .6% participation. If we don't hit at least 2, we
  ought to seriously consider disbanding the current evolution.

 If that means the disbanding of NANOG is that acceptable?


I don't see how the two are inextricably linked. There would be no
reason for nanog to discontinue as a result of disbanding the
bureaucracy.


 I think the numbers may slightly mislead here as Betty told
 me privately the other day, roughly 30% (or was it 1/3) of attendees
 do not return to nanog.  That is someone that is in the voter pool that
 is not likely to vote.

Not intentionally. The numbers I usually use for this stuff are a
superset of subscribers to the list plus digest. I believe that the
8400 list members count.

We didn't need any framework or MLC to get AUP changes done.
We needed some work.

-M


Re: autoresponders

2007-10-17 Thread Lynda

Sean Figgins wrote:


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



You've hit the nail on the head. Is there any way that the NANOG mailing
list can prevent such unwanted mail between two users?

Actually, yes there is.




This is using a hammer to swat a fly. Not only is it not the right tool, 
but it's far less accurate. Please note that the makers of mailman, 
while providing this functionality, recommend against it. Me, too.


http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2000-November/007794.html

[snip description]

Possibly, yes, however I would not recommend it.  Doing this would do 
more damage than the limited benefit.  While I disagree with the way 
the list is setup, preferring the reply-to header to be used to keep 
the traffic on the list, the community seems to prefer it the way it is.



I'm on a couple of lists where the reply-to header is munged in just 
this way. I hate it. I much prefer the extra effort that says to send to 
the list, rather than constantly checking to make sure that a private 
message is not being sent to the list by accident.


[more snips]

I believe that the nanog list server is still using majordomo, and I 
am uncertain if it supports the type of configuration to provide for 
this type of feature.  I'm sure other software, such as mailman, would 
provide for the feature.  Again, it seems that it's working the way 
that the community wants to, and without a beneficent dictator in 
place to change the behavior, it's unlikely that it would be done.



Majordomo can be set to do this. I hope that nanog (and its attendant 
lists) are never set up this way. I have reasonable expertise in 
managing either style of list, and find pluses and minuses in each, but 
consider header munging to be a negative anywhere it's done. The one 
plus about mailman that I miss is having the ability to convert 
mime/rich text garbage into nice sensible plain text (and yes, I *know* 
it's possible to do that other ways). Feh. I'm rambling now.


Sean, not picking on you, but this touched a nerve. Out of control 
vacation (and other autoresponder) programs should be dealt with one at 
a time, as needed. There's already enough rules.


--
We should not be building surveillance technology into standards.
Law enforcement was not supposed to be easy.
Where it is easy, it's called a police state.  -- Jeff Schiller





Re: autoresponders

2007-10-17 Thread Alex Pilosov
On Wed, 17 Oct 2007, Lynda wrote:

 I'm on a couple of lists where the reply-to header is munged in just
 this way. I hate it. I much prefer the extra effort that says to send to
 the list, rather than constantly checking to make sure that a private
 message is not being sent to the list by accident.
FWIW, IMHO, I agree 100%. 

 Sean, not picking on you, but this touched a nerve. Out of control
 vacation (and other autoresponder) programs should be dealt with one at
 a time, as needed. There's already enough rules.
As they are. I've asked [EMAIL PROTECTED] for rough number of subscribers that
have 'no longer with the company' autoresponder that gets unsubscribed by
her based on complaints by list subscribers - the answer is between 0.5 to
2 per month - seems low, however, if we stop doing it, a year later,
you'll get between 6 and 24 autoresponder replies to each post. Which 
would be bad (tm).

-alex