Re: [Nanog-futures] Admission for Committee Members
For some reason I thought it was 8. My intention was slightly less than the total, so perhaps 4 or 5 and to not specify a specific amount of time, given that some committees might meet for fewer hours than others and I wanted to make sure that everyone was invented to participate, not just the PC. -Dave On Aug 31, 2011, at 11:28 PM, Kevin Oberman wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 8:30 AM, David Temkin d...@temk.in wrote: All, I would like to propose an amendment to the bylaws for the coming election cycle. The various committees put in many tireless hours of effort to bring a content rich, well attended, well sponsored meeting to our attendees. In return they generally get a free lunch and a brief thank you. I propose that any committee member who attends six or more committee meetings between NANOG meetings is entitled to a free registration for the upcoming meeting. Attendance would be gauged by the chair of the committee and this would only be available as a benefit to sanctioned committees. I'll keep this short and sweet, however I feel that this is the least that we can do for our hard working committee members. I would ask that the Board sponsor this for the upcoming election, however if they choose not to I think we can put this out to petition. Hmm. Six is a good number as the PC, at least, normally has exactly six meetings between NANOGs. A strong incentive for at least some to make all of the meetings. -- R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer - Retired E-mail: kob6...@gmail.com ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures
Re: [Nanog-futures] Admission for Committee Members
On Sep 1, 2011, at 7:08 AM, David Temkin wrote: For some reason I thought it was 8. My intention was slightly less than the total, so perhaps 4 or 5 and to not specify a specific amount of time, given that some committees might meet for fewer hours than others and I wanted to make sure that everyone was invented to participate, not just the PC. My suggestion would be something more along the lines of: The Board may waive registration fees for a committee member at their discretion and the request of the committee chair. This allows those that may have some hardship to be individually dealt with and can be either needs or merit based. The COOP that my children went to pre-school at had a similar hardship/participation guideline where they could waive the monthly payments for parents that had some hardship. It was merit/needs based and the one case I was aware the person pulled more than their fair share of weight and was recommended by the teacher. I would also think that this number should likely be reported (names not attached) as part of the post-meeting reports. Number of registration fees waived by BoD: 2 - Jared ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures
Re: [Nanog-futures] Admission for Committee Members
I gave discretion to two people in the below wording: the committee chair and the board. My example was hardship but certainly not limited there. The wording is vague on purpose :-) it allows for discretion. Jared Mauch On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:32 AM, David Temkin dav...@gmail.com wrote: I'm not a big fan of this because I don't feel that it should only be waived in the context of a hardship. I get that that's not what you're saying, but I'd rather keep the logic of the two separate - make the Committee-based attendance merit based (no pun intended) and give the Board latitude to waive where appropriate for things such as hardships. -Dave On Sep 1, 2011, at 9:17 AM, Jared Mauch wrote: On Sep 1, 2011, at 7:08 AM, David Temkin wrote: For some reason I thought it was 8. My intention was slightly less than the total, so perhaps 4 or 5 and to not specify a specific amount of time, given that some committees might meet for fewer hours than others and I wanted to make sure that everyone was invented to participate, not just the PC. My suggestion would be something more along the lines of: The Board may waive registration fees for a committee member at their discretion and the request of the committee chair. This allows those that may have some hardship to be individually dealt with and can be either needs or merit based. The COOP that my children went to pre-school at had a similar hardship/participation guideline where they could waive the monthly payments for parents that had some hardship. It was merit/needs based and the one case I was aware the person pulled more than their fair share of weight and was recommended by the teacher. I would also think that this number should likely be reported (names not attached) as part of the post-meeting reports. Number of registration fees waived by BoD: 2 - Jared ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures
Re: [Nanog-futures] Admission for Committee Members
Dave, I like this idea. It will incent people to come to committee meetings. This will make the Nanog meetings we all attend better and more productive. Rose Klimovich On Aug 31, 2011, at 11:30 AM, David Temkin wrote: All, I would like to propose an amendment to the bylaws for the coming election cycle. The various committees put in many tireless hours of effort to bring a content rich, well attended, well sponsored meeting to our attendees. In return they generally get a free lunch and a brief thank you. I propose that any committee member who attends six or more committee meetings between NANOG meetings is entitled to a free registration for the upcoming meeting. Attendance would be gauged by the chair of the committee and this would only be available as a benefit to sanctioned committees. I'll keep this short and sweet, however I feel that this is the least that we can do for our hard working committee members. I would ask that the Board sponsor this for the upcoming election, however if they choose not to I think we can put this out to petition. Thanks, -Dave ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures
Re: [Nanog-futures] Admission for Committee Members
On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM, John Springer sprin...@inlandnet.com wrote: Hi David, I have a memory, from the community meetings where the early NEWNOG finances were being discussed, that it was _ABSOLUTELY_CRITICAL_ that $100/per member fees be implemented. If we didn't, $reallybadthings were completely certain, and anyone who doubted it was not in the know. Note the outdated doc here, which is all we appear to have to go on: https://newnog.org/docs/budget-2010-08.pdf cited a figure of $20,000.00 for 2011 for memberships fees. Not far off, there are 210 names here: https://newnog.org/members.php plus some extra years, but say $30,000.00 for 2011. I think you may be having a memory problem. The reason it was absolutely critical that the $100/member fee be implemented was 1) cash flow (we didn't have any, and we needed to cash to do stupid, self-serving things like putting down hotel deposits) and 2) to help identify membership in a way that would be acceptable to the IRS (and everyone else) for tax-exempt status. There has also been an unanticipated but totally positive impact - the membership fee has helped to instill a sense of ownership in the organization. Of course, sometimes that sense of ownership manifests itself in a really nasty way, but that's life, I guess. Now looking at the lists under the Governance heading here: http://www.nanog.org/ I see 33 committee members, depending on changing members and whether you include the Board. So assuming all these folks are completely incented by this move (and why not?), you propose to forgo the $1275.00 (3x$425.00 Early Bird Member Registration Fee) revenue each (they are all currently paying, right)? 33 X $1,275.00 = $42,075.00 per year. Although I find your tone offensive and your implications ugly, your numbers are correct. Seriously? Plus, and I mean this in the nicest possible way, and I am sure that the Program Committee list here: http://www.nanog.org/governance/program/programcommittee.php is either incorrect or that you will be leaving the committee structure soon enough that you will not personally benefit from this proposal, BUT the _appearance_ of a committee member proposing this suggests the _faintest_possible_appearance_ of impropriety to me. I am sure that I am a profoundly disturbed individual for even thinking this way, but just sayin'. The committee/board membership is such a big chunk of the overall membership (as it should be) that disqualifying them from making proposals that could impact them financially seems ridiculous on the face of it. However, I do agree that you appear to be profoundly disturbed. If, in fact, the difficulties of staffing the committees require action, may we please discuss that matter on a list? Oh, I guess we are! Or has the discussion already taken place in camera and this proposal is the result? If you are the authorized spokesperson for the NANOG/NewNog structure proposing this, then I withdraw my innuendo of impropriety and extend my apology. in camera - wow, how dramatic! I'll have to use that one. There are no authorized spokesperson for the NANOG/NewNog structure - but if we need someone, I suggest we hire the ex-Iraqi Information Minister. That guy is really good. And as far as innuendo - you realize that innuendo requires some degree of subtlety, right? But the whole thing seems a bit off to me. John Springer I can't believe it, but I do agree that this is probably a bad idea. Not because I don't trust the integrity of Dave Temkin - on the contrary, he's a standup guy, widely admired in the Internetworking community. Rather, the loss of revenue to the organization and the potential drama around the arrangements are pretty significant. That being said, I think we should approach our interactions by assuming that everyone is acting in good faith. People will always disagree and people will always make mistakes, but assuming EVIL and CONSPIRACIES, while satisfying and weirdly thrilling, is probably not a good use of anyone's time. - Daniel Golding ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures
Re: [Nanog-futures] Admission for Committee Members
On Thu, Sep 01, 2011 at 07:56:20PM -0400, Dorian Kim wrote: On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 11:30:49AM -0400, David Temkin wrote: All, I would like to propose an amendment to the bylaws for the coming election cycle. The various committees put in many tireless hours of effort to bring a content rich, well attended, well sponsored meeting to our attendees. In return they generally get a free lunch and a brief thank you. I propose that any committee member who attends six or more committee meetings between NANOG meetings is entitled to a free registration for the upcoming meeting. Attendance would be gauged by the chair of the committee and this would only be available as a benefit to sanctioned committees. I'll keep this short and sweet, however I feel that this is the least that we can do for our hard working committee members. I would ask that the Board sponsor this for the upcoming election, however if they choose not to I think we can put this out to petition. Speaking strictly as an individual, I don't believe this is necessary at all. While I thank those who work hard by volunteering, most of those individuals would be attending NANOG regardless. /aol -- RSUC / GweepNet / Spunk / FnB / Usenix / SAGE / NewNOG ___ Nanog-futures mailing list Nanog-futures@nanog.org https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-futures
