[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[threeneurons]

| On Jul 20, 2:27 pm, Adam Jacobs  wrote:
| Somebody really ought to compile every single one of Mike's posts
into a
| book for publication..
|
| -Adam

You sure about that ?

Let me tell you a little story. About 20 years ago, I was driving from
Lake Havasu, Az to Laughlin, NV. It was on a secondary highway, and a
bunch of cars were behind me. Well, I missed the turn going off that
road, leading into laughlin. I noticed it at the last second, but I
didn't change speed or direction. No hesitation. I just kept on going
straight. I saw a (nearly completed) housing development up the road a
few miles. I just turned into that development, like it was my
intended destination, made a couple more turns, and got back on the
original highway, towards that missed turn. About a dozen cars
followed me, and did the exact same thing, all the to Laughlin.

Moral of the story. If you do things with confidence, and make it look
like you know what you're doing, people will follow you. Politicians
and generals have known this for millenia.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[Adam Jacobs]

Somebody really ought to compile every single one of Mike's posts into a 
book for publication..


-Adam

On 7/20/2011 2:13 PM, threeneurons wrote:

A little note to remember about using electrostatically deflected  CRT
tubes. Take for example a 3BP1. The average voltage at the deflection
plates should be as close as possible to the 'anode2' (the higher one)
voltage. If not, you'll have a hell of time trying to focus the dot.
If you ever look at old scope circuits, you'll see the deflection
drivers using, say, +300V supplies and 'anode 2' tied to some bias
level ~+150V. To get the requisite 1500V, or 2000V, for that certain
tube, the cathode will be tied to a negative supply (-1350V, or
-1850V). That means the filament for the CRT is isolated from the
filaments of any other tube, having its own dedicated filament
winding. It also means that the blanking circuit has to be biased down
near the cathode level. The deflection plates should have
complimentary drivers tied to them, which are biased near the 'anode
2' level. If one is deflected 20V negative (ie +150V to +130V), the
complimentary plate should be deflected 20V positive (ie +150V to
+170V). The deflecting difference will be 40V, but the average voltage
will still be 150V.



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[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[neutron spin]

Thanks for the infoThis will indeed be a great learning
experience!.Now I must get to work breadboarding a P/S
first...ordering parts...etc.

Regards

Robert W8UUU


On Jul 20, 5:13 pm, threeneurons  wrote:
> A little note to remember about using electrostatically deflected  CRT
> tubes. Take for example a 3BP1. The average voltage at the deflection
> plates should be as close as possible to the 'anode2' (the higher one)
> voltage. If not, you'll have a hell of time trying to focus the dot.
> If you ever look at old scope circuits, you'll see the deflection
> drivers using, say, +300V supplies and 'anode 2' tied to some bias
> level ~+150V. To get the requisite 1500V, or 2000V, for that certain
> tube, the cathode will be tied to a negative supply (-1350V, or
> -1850V). That means the filament for the CRT is isolated from the
> filaments of any other tube, having its own dedicated filament
> winding. It also means that the blanking circuit has to be biased down
> near the cathode level. The deflection plates should have
> complimentary drivers tied to them, which are biased near the 'anode
> 2' level. If one is deflected 20V negative (ie +150V to +130V), the
> complimentary plate should be deflected 20V positive (ie +150V to
> +170V). The deflecting difference will be 40V, but the average voltage
> will still be 150V.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[neutron spin]

Thanks...It would be great to see the coat in person!will check
out the site...

Regards

Robert W8UUU



On Jul 20, 5:00 pm, J Forbes  wrote:
> David is travelling today, taking the video coat to Detroit, etc. But
> there is a little bit of info on the Scope Clock on his web page here
>
> http://www.cathodecorner.com/sc100.html
>
> There is a link to the (hand drawn) schematic near the bottom of the
> page
>
> Jim Forbes
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> neutron spin wrote:
> > Hello All in Nixieland,
>
> > Mr. Forbes may have some insight on this question.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[threeneurons]

A little note to remember about using electrostatically deflected  CRT
tubes. Take for example a 3BP1. The average voltage at the deflection
plates should be as close as possible to the 'anode2' (the higher one)
voltage. If not, you'll have a hell of time trying to focus the dot.
If you ever look at old scope circuits, you'll see the deflection
drivers using, say, +300V supplies and 'anode 2' tied to some bias
level ~+150V. To get the requisite 1500V, or 2000V, for that certain
tube, the cathode will be tied to a negative supply (-1350V, or
-1850V). That means the filament for the CRT is isolated from the
filaments of any other tube, having its own dedicated filament
winding. It also means that the blanking circuit has to be biased down
near the cathode level. The deflection plates should have
complimentary drivers tied to them, which are biased near the 'anode
2' level. If one is deflected 20V negative (ie +150V to +130V), the
complimentary plate should be deflected 20V positive (ie +150V to
+170V). The deflecting difference will be 40V, but the average voltage
will still be 150V.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[J Forbes]

David is travelling today, taking the video coat to Detroit, etc. But
there is a little bit of info on the Scope Clock on his web page here

http://www.cathodecorner.com/sc100.html

There is a link to the (hand drawn) schematic near the bottom of the
page

Jim Forbes

neutron spin wrote:
> Hello All in Nixieland,
>
> Mr. Forbes may have some insight on this question.

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[neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[threeneurons]

| Could be bad breadboard...
|
| -Adam

Good point ! The quality of modern 'solderless breadboards' (called
protoboards when I was a young whipper snapper) could be suspect.

I first used these back in the late 70's, and still have those, and
they still make great connections. But I bought some newer ones ~2005,
and within a year, the bottom fell out, along with many of the contact
strips.

Check it out. Get your ohm meter out (with the circuit off) and see if
you get continuity. Put the one test lead on the pin coming out of
your uC (PICaxe, ...) and the other on the 74141 pin where its suppose
to go. Do this with all 4 BCD inputs.


Also, for other general digital circuit guidelines. I always point
people to Don Lancaster's TTL Cookbook. Yes, it was written around
1970, but there are many very good guidelines in it, that apply even
today. We've got to find something as concise on the web, that does
the same thing. Here are few rules, off the top of my head:
(1) Use a good clean power supply. Connect it to your circuit with as
fat as traces (or wires) as possible.
(2) Sprinkle capacitors across power and ground all over your circuit.
Preferably as close to the power and ground pins of each chip as
possible. Usually they're 0.1uf (100nf) ceramic capacitors. Some big
chips require you to use several near them, so read you datasheets.
Chips are fast. Very fast. They can either generate very brief short
circuits (in the ballpark of 10nS), and/or be susceptible to these
very short glitches on the power rails. Also put a big fat cap (low
ESR electrolytic, or tantalum) where the power comes in. Something
bigger than 10uf. Watch the polarity of these. If the electrolytic is
plugged in backwards, the safety score will split, and goo will ooze
all over your board. If a tantalum is reversed, it may catch fire. I'm
not a fan of tantalums for this reason.
(3) Terminate ALL unused inputs. 'Terminate' means tie it to
something. In digital that means tie them to gnd, or power (+5V, ...).
Some older chips require a resistor  between the input pin and power.
TTL chips will internally pull themselves upto a logic-1, but its a
weak logic-1. It may be susceptible to interference, and chatter low,
intermittently. CMOS, which means most modern chips, basically will
float, so you don't know where its going to be. Want a circuit that
behaves randomly, just leave a few input pins unterminated.

These are only a few of the most important guidelines. And the world
has only gotten worse, since the TTL Cookbook first came out.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[neutron spin]

Adam,

You saved my day!Awesome application!much appreciated..

Regards

Robert W8UUU


On Jul 20, 3:53 pm, Adam Jacobs  wrote:
> Nick forwarded me this site when I asked a similar question:
>
> http://www.poweresim.com/
>
> In my opinion, it's pretty dog-gone neat.
>
> -Adam W7ATJ
>
> On 7/20/2011 12:42 PM, neutron spin wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello All in Nixieland,
>
> > Mr. Forbes may have some insight on this question.  I am experimenting
> > with some old electrostatic CRT's and need advice in designing a
> > suitable power supply.  I would like to use  a SMPS design...(I hate
> > big ugly transformers)...using some type of flyback circuit.  This
> > would power the filament (heater) of the tube and Anode, etc.  The
> > tubes require anywhere from 600 Vdc to 2000  volts for the anode with
> > very low current requirements.  Also needed is between 400 to 600
> > volts for the deflection plates. I would like to use off the shelf
> > parts for the supply if possible. Any help would be greatly
> > appreciated. I know this is not exactly nixie related (please don't
> > beat me up) but there are some good designers on here I am sure that
> > could point me in the right direction!
>
> > Regards
>
> > Robert W8UUU

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Re: [neonixie-l] Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[Adam Jacobs]

Nick forwarded me this site when I asked a similar question:

http://www.poweresim.com/

In my opinion, it's pretty dog-gone neat.

-Adam W7ATJ

On 7/20/2011 12:42 PM, neutron spin wrote:

Hello All in Nixieland,

Mr. Forbes may have some insight on this question.  I am experimenting
with some old electrostatic CRT's and need advice in designing a
suitable power supply.  I would like to use  a SMPS design...(I hate
big ugly transformers)...using some type of flyback circuit.  This
would power the filament (heater) of the tube and Anode, etc.  The
tubes require anywhere from 600 Vdc to 2000  volts for the anode with
very low current requirements.  Also needed is between 400 to 600
volts for the deflection plates. I would like to use off the shelf
parts for the supply if possible. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. I know this is not exactly nixie related (please don't
beat me up) but there are some good designers on here I am sure that
could point me in the right direction!

Regards

Robert W8UUU



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[neonixie-l] Newbie has another question..not exactly nixie related but....

[neutron spin]

Hello All in Nixieland,

Mr. Forbes may have some insight on this question.  I am experimenting
with some old electrostatic CRT's and need advice in designing a
suitable power supply.  I would like to use  a SMPS design...(I hate
big ugly transformers)...using some type of flyback circuit.  This
would power the filament (heater) of the tube and Anode, etc.  The
tubes require anywhere from 600 Vdc to 2000  volts for the anode with
very low current requirements.  Also needed is between 400 to 600
volts for the deflection plates. I would like to use off the shelf
parts for the supply if possible. Any help would be greatly
appreciated. I know this is not exactly nixie related (please don't
beat me up) but there are some good designers on here I am sure that
could point me in the right direction!

Regards

Robert W8UUU

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Adam Jacobs]

Could be bad breadboard...

-Adam

On 7/20/2011 6:46 AM, jb-electronics wrote:
What do you use for connective wires? When they are poorly insulated 
against each other and they touch at some point, you might get some 
crosstalk that disturbs your BCD signal.


Jens


 Am 20.07.2011 15:42, schrieb Shane Ellis:
Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no soldering 
yet.  I forgot a lot about nixies, and programming, so I'm taking 
baby steps.


Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it out.

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics 
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:


Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:

Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to
74141), double checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is
going on!?
Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:

Hi,

I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:

Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie
tubes read out a static "12:48" for example. Then check the
corresponding BCD inputs on each chip. If the right number
appears there (in BCD format, that is) and the chip displays
a wrong number, then most likely the chip is defective.

If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the
BCD inputs then you might want to recheck your wiring and
coding.

It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the
first thing I do when this happens, and it happens more
often than one would actually presume. One of my favourites
was when I had a software-internal bit shift that made all
my numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I thought it
was a circuit issue. So you might want to check out your
software as well.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:

On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellismailto:mime...@gmail.com>>  wrote:

It's an IN-14.
I have a running version of this exact same circuit,
I built into a
Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I
powered it on, on
December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this
is identical, and still
this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again
tomorrow, and let
everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was
a bad batch
of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could
probably happen in
the non-Soviet parts, too.


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[neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[neutron spin]

A suitable device could be the L4940V5 from ST .if you need less
current there are many others

Regards

Robert

On 20 July, 13:36, neutron spin  wrote:
> I have a minor comment on the circuit designIf you are going to
> use a battery the 7805 will waste power. How can this be avoided?  One
> fix would be to use a Low-dropout regulator...using the walwart of
> course you are not concerned with battery life.
>
> Rergards
>
> Robert
>
> On 20 July, 11:47, Shane Ellis  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > John, you lead me on the right path.
> > I never bothered to replace the uC on the breadboard ( I assumed it worked
> > due to the functioning numbers, and the fact that it took the program)
> > Replaced the uC, and BINGO!  we have a steady functioning tube counting from
> > 0-9.
>
> > Thank you everyone for your help!  I have  a few new ideas to check in the
> > future, thanks to your suggestions.
>
> > WOOHOO!
>
> > Shane
>
> > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:07 AM, John Rehwinkel  wrote:
> > > On 7/20/2011 9:07 AM, Shane Ellis wrote:
>
> > >> Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), 
> > >> double
> > >> checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
>
> > > Sounds like the low 3 bits are connected correctly, and the high bit is 
> > > not
> > > connected.  TTL chips like the 74141 will pull their inputs high if
> > > unconnected.
>
> > > - John KG4L
>
> > > --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Shane Ellis]

the battery was for the schematic, and initial breadboard testing.  Thank
you for the input though!  Wall wart power the tube nicely.  Now, to move to
a bigger uC, and get four tubes running ( and singing)

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 12:36 PM, neutron spin wrote:

> I have a minor comment on the circuit designIf you are going to
> use a battery the 7805 will waste power. How can this be avoided?  One
> fix would be to use a Low-dropout regulator...using the walwart of
> course you are not concerned with battery life.
>
> Rergards
>
> Robert
>
>
> On 20 July, 11:47, Shane Ellis  wrote:
> > John, you lead me on the right path.
> > I never bothered to replace the uC on the breadboard ( I assumed it
> worked
> > due to the functioning numbers, and the fact that it took the program)
> > Replaced the uC, and BINGO!  we have a steady functioning tube counting
> from
> > 0-9.
> >
> > Thank you everyone for your help!  I have  a few new ideas to check in
> the
> > future, thanks to your suggestions.
> >
> > WOOHOO!
> >
> > Shane
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:07 AM, John Rehwinkel 
> wrote:
> > > On 7/20/2011 9:07 AM, Shane Ellis wrote:
> >
> > >> Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141),
> double
> > >> checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
> >
> > > Sounds like the low 3 bits are connected correctly, and the high bit is
> not
> > > connected.  TTL chips like the 74141 will pull their inputs high if
> > > unconnected.
> >
> > > - John KG4L
> >
> > > --
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> http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB>
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[neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[neutron spin]

I have a minor comment on the circuit designIf you are going to
use a battery the 7805 will waste power. How can this be avoided?  One
fix would be to use a Low-dropout regulator...using the walwart of
course you are not concerned with battery life.

Rergards

Robert


On 20 July, 11:47, Shane Ellis  wrote:
> John, you lead me on the right path.
> I never bothered to replace the uC on the breadboard ( I assumed it worked
> due to the functioning numbers, and the fact that it took the program)
> Replaced the uC, and BINGO!  we have a steady functioning tube counting from
> 0-9.
>
> Thank you everyone for your help!  I have  a few new ideas to check in the
> future, thanks to your suggestions.
>
> WOOHOO!
>
> Shane
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:07 AM, John Rehwinkel  wrote:
> > On 7/20/2011 9:07 AM, Shane Ellis wrote:
>
> >> Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), double
> >> checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
>
> > Sounds like the low 3 bits are connected correctly, and the high bit is not
> > connected.  TTL chips like the 74141 will pull their inputs high if
> > unconnected.
>
> > - John KG4L
>
> > --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Shane Ellis]

John, you lead me on the right path.
I never bothered to replace the uC on the breadboard ( I assumed it worked
due to the functioning numbers, and the fact that it took the program)
Replaced the uC, and BINGO!  we have a steady functioning tube counting from
0-9.

Thank you everyone for your help!  I have  a few new ideas to check in the
future, thanks to your suggestions.

WOOHOO!

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 10:07 AM, John Rehwinkel  wrote:

> On 7/20/2011 9:07 AM, Shane Ellis wrote:
>
>> Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), double
>> checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
>>
> Sounds like the low 3 bits are connected correctly, and the high bit is not
> connected.  TTL chips like the 74141 will pull their inputs high if
> unconnected.
>
> - John KG4L
>
>
> --
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[John Rehwinkel]

On 7/20/2011 9:07 AM, Shane Ellis wrote:
Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), 
double checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
Sounds like the low 3 bits are connected correctly, and the high bit is 
not connected.  TTL chips like the 74141 will pull their inputs high if 
unconnected.


- John KG4L

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[jb-electronics]

Shane,

wow, this must have been a lot of work to draw this in paint. You can 
always use Eagle for schematics, there is a free version.


I can't see a single cap in your circuit, at least put two 100nF caps 
right next to the 7805, one before and one after, this will help to 
stabilise the circuit.


Apart from that I do not see any mistake given your wiring is correct.

Jens


Am 20.07.2011 16:32, schrieb Shane Ellis:
Where would I post the schematic.  I drew it up in MSpaint, but it 
represents the circuit properly.  I attached it to this e-mail, I hope 
that is sufficient.


Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 9:24 AM, jb-electronics 
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:


Well, then I think it is time for the schematic ;-)

Regards,
Jens

Am 20.07.2011 16:21, schrieb Shane Ellis:

I was wondering about eddie currents, and crosstalk, but I have
everything as isolated as I can on the breadboard.
hmmm

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:46 AM, jb-electronics
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:

What do you use for connective wires? When they are poorly
insulated against each other and they touch at some point,
you might get some crosstalk that disturbs your BCD signal.

Jens


 Am 20.07.2011 15:42, schrieb Shane Ellis:

Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no
soldering yet.  I forgot a lot about nixies, and
programming, so I'm taking baby steps.

Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it out.

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:

Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:

Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires,
(picaxe to 74141), double checked them, and NOW, I get
4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:

Hi,

I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:

Create some sample code that is supposed to have
the Nixie tubes read out a static "12:48" for
example. Then check the corresponding BCD inputs on
each chip. If the right number appears there (in
BCD format, that is) and the chip displays a wrong
number, then most likely the chip is defective.

If you realise there are already the wrong numbers
on the BCD inputs then you might want to recheck
your wiring and coding.

It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this
is the first thing I do when this happens, and it
happens more often than one would actually presume.
One of my favourites was when I had a
software-internal bit shift that made all my
numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I
thought it was a circuit issue. So you might want
to check out your software as well.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:

On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane
Ellismailto:mime...@gmail.com>>  wrote:

It's an IN-14.
I have a running version of this exact same
circuit, I built into a
Christmas ornament, been running perfectly
since I powered it on, on
December 23rd.  I looked at my old files,
and this is identical, and still
this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with
it again tomorrow, and let
everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver?
There was a bad batch
of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It
could probably happen in
the non-Soviet parts, too.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[jb-electronics]

Well, then I think it is time for the schematic ;-)

Regards,
Jens

Am 20.07.2011 16:21, schrieb Shane Ellis:
I was wondering about eddie currents, and crosstalk, but I have 
everything as isolated as I can on the breadboard.

hmmm

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:46 AM, jb-electronics 
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:


What do you use for connective wires? When they are poorly
insulated against each other and they touch at some point, you
might get some crosstalk that disturbs your BCD signal.

Jens


 Am 20.07.2011 15:42, schrieb Shane Ellis:

Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no soldering
yet.  I forgot a lot about nixies, and programming, so I'm taking
baby steps.

Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it out.

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:

Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:

Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to
74141), double checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7 
What is going on!?

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:

Hi,

I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:

Create some sample code that is supposed to have the
Nixie tubes read out a static "12:48" for example. Then
check the corresponding BCD inputs on each chip. If the
right number appears there (in BCD format, that is) and
the chip displays a wrong number, then most likely the
chip is defective.

If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on
the BCD inputs then you might want to recheck your
wiring and coding.

It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is
the first thing I do when this happens, and it happens
more often than one would actually presume. One of my
favourites was when I had a software-internal bit shift
that made all my numbers about twice as low as intended
;-) I thought it was a circuit issue. So you might want
to check out your software as well.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:

On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellismailto:mime...@gmail.com>>  wrote:

It's an IN-14.
I have a running version of this exact same
circuit, I built into a
Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since
I powered it on, on
December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and
this is identical, and still
this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it
again tomorrow, and let
everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There
was a bad batch
of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could
probably happen in
the non-Soviet parts, too.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Shane Ellis]

This is in fact binary, I'm using the four outputs on my micro as the 4
high/low signals on the 74141.
Something unusual though.  I unplugged the ground to the 74141, and it still
displayed the 4,5,6,7...
For some reason, I'm not getting a proper ground at the 7805 volt regulator.
I'll rewire the grounds, and see what I can figure out.
Thanks all
Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:46 AM,  wrote:

> **
> Well, not knowing the schematic...
> If you were binary at some point and had the 4bit high, that would give you
> the 4,5,6,7 instead of 0,1,2,3
>
> Michail
>
>  In a message dated 7/20/2011 6:42:55 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> mime...@gmail.com writes:
>
> Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no soldering yet.  I
> forgot a lot about nixies, and programming, so I'm taking baby steps.
>
> Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it out.
>
> Shane
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics <
> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>
>> **
>> Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:
>>
>> Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), double
>> checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
>> Shane
>>
>> .com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
>
>  --
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Shane Ellis]

I was wondering about eddie currents, and crosstalk, but I have everything
as isolated as I can on the breadboard.
hmmm

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:46 AM, jb-electronics  wrote:

> **
> What do you use for connective wires? When they are poorly insulated
> against each other and they touch at some point, you might get some
> crosstalk that disturbs your BCD signal.
>
> Jens
>
>
>  Am 20.07.2011 15:42, schrieb Shane Ellis:
>
> Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no soldering yet.  I
> forgot a lot about nixies, and programming, so I'm taking baby steps.
>
> Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it out.
>
> Shane
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics <
> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>
>>  Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:
>>
>> Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), double
>> checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
>> Shane
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics <
>> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:
>>>
>>> Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie tubes read out
>>> a static "12:48" for example. Then check the corresponding BCD inputs on
>>> each chip. If the right number appears there (in BCD format, that is) and
>>> the chip displays a wrong number, then most likely the chip is defective.
>>>
>>> If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the BCD inputs then
>>> you might want to recheck your wiring and coding.
>>>
>>> It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the first thing I
>>> do when this happens, and it happens more often than one would actually
>>> presume. One of my favourites was when I had a software-internal bit shift
>>> that made all my numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I thought it was
>>> a circuit issue. So you might want to check out your software as well.
>>>
>>> Jens
>>>
>>> Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:
>>>
>>>  On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellis  wrote:

> It's an IN-14.
> I have a running version of this exact same circuit, I built into a
> Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I powered it on, on
> December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is identical, and
> still
> this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again tomorrow, and let
> everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.
>
 Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was a bad batch
 of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could probably happen in
 the non-Soviet parts, too.


>>> --
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>>> "neonixie-l" group.
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Michail1]

Well, not knowing the schematic...
If you were binary at some point and had the 4bit high, that would give you 
 the 4,5,6,7 instead of 0,1,2,3
 
Michail
 
 
In a message dated 7/20/2011 6:42:55 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
mime...@gmail.com writes:

Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no soldering  yet.  I 
forgot a lot about nixies, and programming, so I'm taking baby  steps.  

Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it  out.

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics 
<_webmaster@jb-electronics.de_ (mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de) >  wrote:

Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to  me several times.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane  Ellis:  
 

 
Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data  wires, (picaxe to 74141), double 
checked them, and NOW, I get  4,5,6,7  What is going  on!?
Shane







.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[jb-electronics]

What do you use for connective wires? When they are poorly insulated 
against each other and they touch at some point, you might get some 
crosstalk that disturbs your BCD signal.


Jens


 Am 20.07.2011 15:42, schrieb Shane Ellis:
Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no soldering 
yet.  I forgot a lot about nixies, and programming, so I'm taking baby 
steps.


Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it out.

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics 
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:


Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:

Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to
74141), double checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is
going on!?
Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:

Hi,

I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:

Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie
tubes read out a static "12:48" for example. Then check the
corresponding BCD inputs on each chip. If the right number
appears there (in BCD format, that is) and the chip displays
a wrong number, then most likely the chip is defective.

If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the BCD
inputs then you might want to recheck your wiring and coding.

It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the
first thing I do when this happens, and it happens more often
than one would actually presume. One of my favourites was
when I had a software-internal bit shift that made all my
numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I thought it was a
circuit issue. So you might want to check out your software
as well.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:

On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellismailto:mime...@gmail.com>>  wrote:

It's an IN-14.
I have a running version of this exact same circuit,
I built into a
Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I
powered it on, on
December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is
identical, and still
this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again
tomorrow, and let
everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was
a bad batch
of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could
probably happen in
the non-Soviet parts, too.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Shane Ellis]

Unfortunately, i'm still at the breadboard stage, so no soldering yet.  I
forgot a lot about nixies, and programming, so I'm taking baby steps.

Keep these suggestions coming, eventually we'll figure it out.

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:40 AM, jb-electronics  wrote:

> **
> Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.
>
> Jens
>
> Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:
>
> Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), double
> checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
> Shane
>
> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics <
> webmas...@jb-electronics.de> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:
>>
>> Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie tubes read out
>> a static "12:48" for example. Then check the corresponding BCD inputs on
>> each chip. If the right number appears there (in BCD format, that is) and
>> the chip displays a wrong number, then most likely the chip is defective.
>>
>> If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the BCD inputs then
>> you might want to recheck your wiring and coding.
>>
>> It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the first thing I do
>> when this happens, and it happens more often than one would actually
>> presume. One of my favourites was when I had a software-internal bit shift
>> that made all my numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I thought it was
>> a circuit issue. So you might want to check out your software as well.
>>
>> Jens
>>
>> Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:
>>
>>  On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellis  wrote:
>>>
 It's an IN-14.
 I have a running version of this exact same circuit, I built into a
 Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I powered it on, on
 December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is identical, and
 still
 this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again tomorrow, and let
 everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

>>> Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was a bad batch
>>> of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could probably happen in
>>> the non-Soviet parts, too.
>>>
>>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[jb-electronics]

Maybe some bad soldering? Happened to me several times.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 15:07, schrieb Shane Ellis:
Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), 
double checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics 
mailto:webmas...@jb-electronics.de>> wrote:


Hi,

I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:

Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie tubes
read out a static "12:48" for example. Then check the
corresponding BCD inputs on each chip. If the right number appears
there (in BCD format, that is) and the chip displays a wrong
number, then most likely the chip is defective.

If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the BCD
inputs then you might want to recheck your wiring and coding.

It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the first
thing I do when this happens, and it happens more often than one
would actually presume. One of my favourites was when I had a
software-internal bit shift that made all my numbers about twice
as low as intended ;-) I thought it was a circuit issue. So you
might want to check out your software as well.

Jens

Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:

On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellismailto:mime...@gmail.com>>  wrote:

It's an IN-14.
I have a running version of this exact same circuit, I
built into a
Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I powered
it on, on
December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is
identical, and still
this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again
tomorrow, and let
everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was a bad
batch
of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could probably
happen in
the non-Soviet parts, too.


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Shane Ellis]

Unbelievable.  I yanked out the four data wires, (picaxe to 74141), double
checked them, and NOW, I get 4,5,6,7  What is going on!?
Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:
>
> Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie tubes read out a
> static "12:48" for example. Then check the corresponding BCD inputs on each
> chip. If the right number appears there (in BCD format, that is) and the
> chip displays a wrong number, then most likely the chip is defective.
>
> If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the BCD inputs then
> you might want to recheck your wiring and coding.
>
> It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the first thing I do
> when this happens, and it happens more often than one would actually
> presume. One of my favourites was when I had a software-internal bit shift
> that made all my numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I thought it was
> a circuit issue. So you might want to check out your software as well.
>
> Jens
>
> Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:
>
>  On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellis  wrote:
>>
>>> It's an IN-14.
>>> I have a running version of this exact same circuit, I built into a
>>> Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I powered it on, on
>>> December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is identical, and
>>> still
>>> this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again tomorrow, and let
>>> everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.
>>>
>> Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was a bad batch
>> of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could probably happen in
>> the non-Soviet parts, too.
>>
>>
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>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Shane Ellis]

Thank you everyone for the suggestions.  I'll remove the current limiting
resistor to the 74141, I'll check the Picaxe, and 74141, and I'll simulate
my code to make sure pins are going high low at the same time.

I'll check in later

Shane

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:48 AM, jb-electronics  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:
>
> Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie tubes read out a
> static "12:48" for example. Then check the corresponding BCD inputs on each
> chip. If the right number appears there (in BCD format, that is) and the
> chip displays a wrong number, then most likely the chip is defective.
>
> If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the BCD inputs then
> you might want to recheck your wiring and coding.
>
> It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the first thing I do
> when this happens, and it happens more often than one would actually
> presume. One of my favourites was when I had a software-internal bit shift
> that made all my numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I thought it was
> a circuit issue. So you might want to check out your software as well.
>
> Jens
>
> Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:
>
>  On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellis  wrote:
>>
>>> It's an IN-14.
>>> I have a running version of this exact same circuit, I built into a
>>> Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I powered it on, on
>>> December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is identical, and
>>> still
>>> this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again tomorrow, and let
>>> everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.
>>>
>> Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was a bad batch
>> of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could probably happen in
>> the non-Soviet parts, too.
>>
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[jb-electronics]

Hi,

I think the problem can be circled fairly easy:

Create some sample code that is supposed to have the Nixie tubes read 
out a static "12:48" for example. Then check the corresponding BCD 
inputs on each chip. If the right number appears there (in BCD format, 
that is) and the chip displays a wrong number, then most likely the chip 
is defective.


If you realise there are already the wrong numbers on the BCD inputs 
then you might want to recheck your wiring and coding.


It sounds really obvious, sorry for that, but this is the first thing I 
do when this happens, and it happens more often than one would actually 
presume. One of my favourites was when I had a software-internal bit 
shift that made all my numbers about twice as low as intended ;-) I 
thought it was a circuit issue. So you might want to check out your 
software as well.


Jens

Am 20.07.2011 11:05, schrieb Terry Kennedy:

On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellis  wrote:

It's an IN-14.
I have a running version of this exact same circuit, I built into a
Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I powered it on, on
December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is identical, and still
this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again tomorrow, and let
everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was a bad batch
of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could probably happen in
the non-Soviet parts, too.



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[neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[GastonP]

I have a 330 ohm on the +5v of the 74141, and the tube itself, has
> a 10K on the anode.  No other resistors or caps are in this circuit.  Maybe
> I got lucky last time when this worked, but this time, it's not happening.
>
> Shane

Hi Shane!

TTLs don't need current limiting of any kind in their power supply
pins or inputs, exception made when you are forcing a "1" in one of
the pins, and that only for very specific situations.
They are usually quite current-hungry.
The 74141 has an Icc of 25mA so with that resistor it is impossible
for it to work properly.
Remove or short that resistor and try again.

Gaston

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[neonixie-l] Re: wrong numbers

[Terry Kennedy]

On Jul 20, 1:20 am, Shane Ellis  wrote:
> It's an IN-14.
> I have a running version of this exact same circuit, I built into a
> Christmas ornament, been running perfectly since I powered it on, on
> December 23rd.  I looked at my old files, and this is identical, and still
> this one is acting buggy.  I'll mess with it again tomorrow, and let
> everyone know what, if anything, I figured out.

Are using the Soviet K155ID1 decoder / driver? There was a bad batch
of those which caused all sorts of havoc. It could probably happen in
the non-Soviet parts, too.

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