[neonixie-l] Vishay/Dale 16 digit alphanumeric gas plasma display

[Sven Killig]

Hello Group!

I received
http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/PD007D07001S51/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvkC18yXH9iIurp2WUOVpc7D8%2fd1LKTOnY%3d
some days ago, wondering how to drive it. Thankfully I discovered
http://www.tubeclockdb.com/forum/Builders-Forum/86-Cherry-alphanumeric-display.html
which drives a compatible display. The annotated PCB:
http://www.tubeclockdb.com/Alphanumeric_clock1.pdf
Now I'm in the process of doing the PCB layout and getting my BOM together. 
Since I'm more into software normally, I have some questions:
1. How do I get the values of the resistors in the upper part of the PCB 
(e.g. R214, R198 and the one between them)? What power should they be rated 
for? The circuits seem to resemble drivers like the one in
http://www.clock-it.net/neon/bally/6-Digit_Display_Driver_(AS-2518-21).pdf
with currents from
http://www.babcockinc.com/babcock/documents/doc_471.html
2. Isn't it neccessary to drive the "SCANNING KEEP ALIVES 1-16" pin (#1)?
3. It seems I only can get either 100 V or 120 V Zeners. What would you 
recommend?

Thanks a lot in advance!

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[neonixie-l] NIMO Datasheets

[Dieter Waechter]

Hi Gang,
I'm looking for NIMO datasheets.
You know I have already collected these:

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/BA-P31.pdf

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/IEE_Nimo_808.pdf

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/IEE_Nimo_6500.pdf

http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/dat_arch/XM1000.pdf

Who can help?
Thanks
Dieter

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[neonixie-l] real good guys

[westdave]

Davester tales of the glowing clock

I bought a CRT clock off of ebay,because that's what I collect,I have try ed to 
get a nixie clocks , when ever they are made ,I have a David Forbes cathode 
corner CRT clock running 24/7 for many years now ,and I collected a nixie 
wristwatch before there all gone,and a cathode corner 6 digit clock with 6 x B 
-5092,three kinds of cosmodog nixie clocks ,the stuff that makes history,
i bought a CRT clock a few years back from Howard 
Constantine,Oscilloscopeclocknixiecrt.com, howc...@hotmail.com,it was made on a 
piece of PC perf board (a look I love ,hand made)and the plastic case got 
roughed up by the post office,but I love it just the same,a few years later , 
the clock failed,I emailed Howard, he was more that great, I turned in the old 
one for useable parts , and traded up to the new CRT clock... this one is even 
cooler, the last one had hands and ran analogue style .The new CRT clock runs 
both digital and hands ,face,style and toggles back and forth,awesome!

next up ,let the healing begin,for those who were scammed,this is the way to 
go, TODAY, time to let the past nixie crimes be forgot ,there is this instead
i just bought the Jeff Thomas  gps flw clock

jtho...@amug.org

The GPS FLW circuit board (assembled)  $109
 
 Laser Cut transparent acrylic enclosure kit$40
   
 Haicom HI-204III 20ch serial GPS receiver $60

total$219 delivered,no tubes, At last a use for them!

this kit is sexy, the case design is fantastic ,and see thru ,lots of fun to 
watch, it makes words i never heard of,but so what,it's suppose to be fun,
its safe to come out now and pull those B7971 out of the boxes and drawers
,don't sell them now that they are over $100 each,buy this clock plug them in 
you are done.

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Re: [neonixie-l] real good guys

[Nicholas Stock]

It's a great time/word piece for sure...

You could also put your B7971's to good use in the following..

http://badnixie.com/BadNixie.com_Welcome.html

Currently sold out, but another production run is in the offing if there's
enough interest...simple and awesome time piece!

Nick

On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM, westdave  wrote:

> Davester tales of the glowing clock
>
> I bought a CRT clock off of ebay,because that's what I collect,I have try
> ed to get a nixie clocks , when ever they are made ,I have a David Forbes
> cathode corner CRT clock running 24/7 for many years now ,and I collected a
> nixie wristwatch before there all gone,and a cathode corner 6 digit clock
> with 6 x B -5092,three kinds of cosmodog nixie clocks ,the stuff that makes
> history,
> i bought a CRT clock a few years back from Howard Constantine,
> Oscilloscopeclocknixiecrt.com, 
> howc...@hotmail.com,it was made on a piece of PC perf board (a look I
> love ,hand made)and the plastic case got roughed up by the post office,but
> I love it just the same,a few years later , the clock failed,I emailed
> Howard, he was more that great, I turned in the old one for useable parts ,
> and traded up to the new CRT clock... this one is even cooler, the last one
> had hands and ran analogue style .The new CRT clock runs both digital and
> hands ,face,style and toggles back and forth,awesome!
>
> next up ,let the healing begin,for those who were scammed,this is the way
> to go, TODAY, time to let the past nixie crimes be forgot ,there is 
> *this*instead
> i just bought the Jeff Thomas  gps flw clock
>
> jtho...@amug.org
>
> The GPS FLW circuit board (assembled)  $109
>
> Laser Cut transparent acrylic enclosure kit$40
>
> Haicom HI-204III 20ch serial GPS receiver $60
>
> total$219 delivered,no tubes, At last a *use* for them!
>
> this kit is sexy, the case design is fantastic ,and see thru ,lots of fun
> to watch, it makes words i never heard of,but so what,it's suppose to be
> fun,
> its safe to come out now and pull those B7971 out of the boxes and drawers
> ,don't sell them now that they are over $100 each,buy this clock plug them
> in you are done.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
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Re: [neonixie-l] Vishay/Dale 16 digit alphanumeric gas plasma display

[Quixotic Nixotic]

On 12 Mar 2012, at 16:47, Sven Killig wrote:

> Hello Group!
> 
> I received
> http://de.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/PD007D07001S51/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMvkC18yXH9iIurp2WUOVpc7D8%2fd1LKTOnY%3d
> some days ago, wondering how to drive it. Thankfully I discovered
> http://www.tubeclockdb.com/forum/Builders-Forum/86-Cherry-alphanumeric-display.html
> which drives a compatible display. The annotated PCB:
> http://www.tubeclockdb.com/Alphanumeric_clock1.pdf
> Now I'm in the process of doing the PCB layout and getting my BOM together. 
> Since I'm more into software normally, I have some questions:
> 1. How do I get the values of the resistors in the upper part of the PCB 
> (e.g. R214, R198 and the one between them)? What power should they be rated 
> for? The circuits seem to resemble drivers like the one in
> http://www.clock-it.net/neon/bally/6-Digit_Display_Driver_(AS-2518-21).pdf
> with currents from
> http://www.babcockinc.com/babcock/documents/doc_471.html
> 2. Isn't it neccessary to drive the "SCANNING KEEP ALIVES 1-16" pin (#1)?
> 3. It seems I only can get either 100 V or 120 V Zeners. What would you 
> recommend?
> 
> Thanks a lot in advance!

Hi Sven.

You seem to have linked to various documents to do with various clocks of mine, 
so I better respond.

The circuit I came up with is a hybrid of the typical circuit diagram used to 
drive a 6 or 7 digit seven segment display and the circuit used to drive the 16 
digit alphanumeric displays in pinball displays.

Those displays as used in pinball machines had a system involving -100v 0v and 
90v. There were obsolete UDN chips running the high and low side. In practice a 
lot of these display boards failed with the chips working close to their 
maximum and people have resorted to workarounds to replace them. I looked at 
the design for my BK2K, Black Knight 2000.

1] You get the values for those resistors by looking at the circuit diagram and 
parts list for any pinball machine that uses them. It's just one resistor 
change to adjust the brightness balance for the segments. Otherwise I used the 
high and low side drivers as in the 6 and 7 digit Bally machines. As you say, 
there's a PDF of these diagrams on my Clock-It website at: 
http://www.clock-it.net/neon/bally/6-Digit_Display_Driver_(AS-2518-21).pdf and
http://www.clock-it.net/neon/bally/7-Digit_Display_Driver_(AS-2518-58).pdf

I used 1/2w resistors.

No I didn't get the values from Babcock, nor do I see any values on the Babcock 
document you linked to. I got them from my BK2K pinball schematic and parts 
list - only the parts list has the values, so you have to find each segment on 
the schematic and match up the resistors. I'd have to look to see what values I 
used, I probably wrote them down somewhere. The 100k resistors on the digit 
drivers should be 1/2w too, although pinball manuals say 1/4w. They cook and 
burn out.

2] I don't use pin 1. My display works just fine, no it is not necessary and I 
don't think pinball machines use that pin either, from what I can see. Pin 90 
does not exist on my Cherry displays, so N/C it certainly is.

3] The 100v zener will be fine. It's simply a pull mid. The techies here will 
tell you what that is all about. I'm not sure, I think it's about fast firing 
or reducing ghosting or something. I used a 110v zeners because I pulled one 
from a stack of dud display boards I had handy.

You need to sweep the display quite fast to get it flicker and ripple free, you 
are doing a 16 multiplex. I used a PIC microcontroller to do this with a 
counter outputting a 4 bit code to a 1 of 16 decoder with latch and inhibit. 
You could simply make a four bit counter and have it free-running the 1 of 16 
decoder to sweep the display. You could still use the inhibit pin to blank the 
display when necessary. This would take the load off the microcontroller and 
free it up to do other things which you then don't have to interleave with the 
display routine. I will probably do this in future as it can be tricky with 
various scrolling routines taking different times and as a result varying the 
brightness - characters start to jump out at different brightnesses.

When adjusting the high voltage it will tell you when the voltage is correct. 
Too high and you will see some arcing and ghosting on unlit segments. Too 
little and you get flickering and uneven illumination. There is a sweet spot, 
you will know it.

My routine seems to work well for a rock-steady display using a PIC. I added a 
bcd to 7 segment chip in case I want to simply send numbers rather than segment 
patterns individually, but in the end never used it. I defined all the 
character shapes in a word array corresponding to the ascii code for that 
character - send the ascii number for that character and it switches those 
segments on.

John S

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Re: [neonixie-l] Burroughs BIP-8820 reverse engineering help (signetics chip numbers).

[clu]

Alright, here we go,

Important note: pin 4 is not common and pin 2 is not +5V (I wish I could 
edit my first post to avoid misinformation).

The numbers were definitely Burroughs house numbers. Fortunately there is 
this document 
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/icData/burroughs_IC_crossref.pdf) that 
at least lists the functions of the chips (page 61). I'm part of the way 
through a schematic of the BIP-8820-1 which certainly agrees with the 
functions of the chips. The 906 1627 1363 is a "BCD to Decimal 
Decoder/Driver." The 849 1627 1371 is a "Counter/Storage Register." 
Fortunately Signetics datasheets still exist here 
(http://bitsavers.org/pdf/signetics/_dataBooks/1972_Signetics_Full_Line.pdf). 
It appears that the 906 (BCD to decimal decoder/driver) is equivalent to a 
Signetics 7441 (page 2-40) and the 849 (counter) is equivalent to a 
Signetics 8280 (page 3-90). So I think I've found all the features of the 
BIP-8820-1 along with the pinout. 

I'll post the schematic and pinout soon after I do a good test.

Thanks for the tips!

~clu

On Sunday, 11 March 2012 20:38:04 UTC-6, nixiebunny wrote:
>
> On 3/11/12 5:12 PM, clu wrote:
> > I found two old Signetics chips in there. The Signetics logo is the one
> > used in the late 60s but I can't find any data using the part numbers on
> > the chips. Can anyone identify these chips (image links below)(I'm
> > assuming one decade counter with BCD output and a nixie driver)? I'd
> > like to make an unofficial BIP-8820 datasheet for anyone else out there
> > with these...
> >
> > http://i.imgur.com/V2Cos.jpg
> >
> > http://i.imgur.com/3nn1i.jpg
> >
>
> Those are definitely Burroughs house numbers, since the number on the PC 
> board under the chip in the second photo has a number with the same format.
>
> Good luck on the reverse engineering!
>
> -- 
> David Forbes, Tucson AZ
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: real good guys

[Greg P]

Couldn't agree with you more Nick!  Love my MOD-SIX, Carl and Michael
did a fantastic job on this piece.



On Mar 12, 3:52 pm, Nicholas Stock  wrote:
> It's a great time/word piece for sure...
>
> You could also put your B7971's to good use in the following..
>
> http://badnixie.com/BadNixie.com_Welcome.html
>
> Currently sold out, but another production run is in the offing if there's
> enough interest...simple and awesome time piece!
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM, westdave  wrote:
> > Davester tales of the glowing clock
>
> > I bought a CRT clock off of ebay,because that's what I collect,I have try
> > ed to get a nixie clocks , when ever they are made ,I have a David Forbes
> > cathode corner CRT clock running 24/7 for many years now ,and I collected a
> > nixie wristwatch before there all gone,and a cathode corner 6 digit clock
> > with 6 x B -5092,three kinds of cosmodog nixie clocks ,the stuff that makes
> > history,
> > i bought a CRT clock a few years back from Howard Constantine,
> > Oscilloscopeclocknixiecrt.com, 
> > howc...@hotmail.com,it was made on a piece of PC perf board (a look I
> > love ,hand made)and the plastic case got roughed up by the post office,but
> > I love it just the same,a few years later , the clock failed,I emailed
> > Howard, he was more that great, I turned in the old one for useable parts ,
> > and traded up to the new CRT clock... this one is even cooler, the last one
> > had hands and ran analogue style .The new CRT clock runs both digital and
> > hands ,face,style and toggles back and forth,awesome!
>
> > next up ,let the healing begin,for those who were scammed,this is the way
> > to go, TODAY, time to let the past nixie crimes be forgot ,there is 
> > *this*instead
> > i just bought the Jeff Thomas  gps flw clock
>
> > jtho...@amug.org
>
> > The GPS FLW circuit board (assembled)  $109
>
> > Laser Cut transparent acrylic enclosure kit    $40
>
> > Haicom HI-204III 20ch serial GPS receiver $60
>
> > total$219 delivered,no tubes, At last a *use* for them!
>
> > this kit is sexy, the case design is fantastic ,and see thru ,lots of fun
> > to watch, it makes words i never heard of,but so what,it's suppose to be
> > fun,
> > its safe to come out now and pull those B7971 out of the boxes and drawers
> > ,don't sell them now that they are over $100 each,buy this clock plug them
> > in you are done.
>
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> > "neonixie-l" group.
> > To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com.
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> > neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: real good guys

[Nicholas Stock]

That should have said 'simply an awesome timepiece'...sheesh my typing is bad 
some days...

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 12, 2012, at 19:19, Greg P  wrote:

> Couldn't agree with you more Nick!  Love my MOD-SIX, Carl and Michael
> did a fantastic job on this piece.
> 
> 
> 
> On Mar 12, 3:52 pm, Nicholas Stock  wrote:
>> It's a great time/word piece for sure...
>> 
>> You could also put your B7971's to good use in the following..
>> 
>> http://badnixie.com/BadNixie.com_Welcome.html
>> 
>> Currently sold out, but another production run is in the offing if there's
>> enough interest...simple and awesome time piece!
>> 
>> Nick
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Mon, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:34 PM, westdave  wrote:
>>> Davester tales of the glowing clock
>> 
>>> I bought a CRT clock off of ebay,because that's what I collect,I have try
>>> ed to get a nixie clocks , when ever they are made ,I have a David Forbes
>>> cathode corner CRT clock running 24/7 for many years now ,and I collected a
>>> nixie wristwatch before there all gone,and a cathode corner 6 digit clock
>>> with 6 x B -5092,three kinds of cosmodog nixie clocks ,the stuff that makes
>>> history,
>>> i bought a CRT clock a few years back from Howard Constantine,
>>> Oscilloscopeclocknixiecrt.com, 
>>> howc...@hotmail.com,it was made on a piece of PC perf board (a look I
>>> love ,hand made)and the plastic case got roughed up by the post office,but
>>> I love it just the same,a few years later , the clock failed,I emailed
>>> Howard, he was more that great, I turned in the old one for useable parts ,
>>> and traded up to the new CRT clock... this one is even cooler, the last one
>>> had hands and ran analogue style .The new CRT clock runs both digital and
>>> hands ,face,style and toggles back and forth,awesome!
>> 
>>> next up ,let the healing begin,for those who were scammed,this is the way
>>> to go, TODAY, time to let the past nixie crimes be forgot ,there is 
>>> *this*instead
>>> i just bought the Jeff Thomas  gps flw clock
>> 
>>> jtho...@amug.org
>> 
>>> The GPS FLW circuit board (assembled)  $109
>> 
>>> Laser Cut transparent acrylic enclosure kit$40
>> 
>>> Haicom HI-204III 20ch serial GPS receiver $60
>> 
>>> total$219 delivered,no tubes, At last a *use* for them!
>> 
>>> this kit is sexy, the case design is fantastic ,and see thru ,lots of fun
>>> to watch, it makes words i never heard of,but so what,it's suppose to be
>>> fun,
>>> its safe to come out now and pull those B7971 out of the boxes and drawers
>>> ,don't sell them now that they are over $100 each,buy this clock plug them
>>> in you are done.
>> 
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To post to this group, send an email to neonixie-l@googlegroups.com.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>>> neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> For more options, visit this group at
>>> http://groups.google.com/group/neonixie-l?hl=en-GB.
> 
> -- 
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> 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Burroughs BIP-8820 reverse engineering help (signetics chip numbers).

[Fetguy]

I have a 1969 Signetics catalog and there was an older BCD-to-Nixie
driver called 8T01, also in 16 pin DIP, but with a different pinout
from the 7441.  So if you find the pins are not working out, Google
the 8T01.  I see a data sheet out there for it.  They offered a few
different counters, but the 8280 was their basic BCD one, so that is
probably correct.

Best of luck with it!


On Mar 12, 6:57 pm, clu  wrote:
> Alright, here we go,
>
> Important note: pin 4 is not common and pin 2 is not +5V (I wish I could
> edit my first post to avoid misinformation).
>
> The numbers were definitely Burroughs house numbers. Fortunately there is
> this document
> (http://bitsavers.org/pdf/burroughs/icData/burroughs_IC_crossref.pdf) that
> at least lists the functions of the chips (page 61). I'm part of the way
> through a schematic of the BIP-8820-1 which certainly agrees with the
> functions of the chips. The 906 1627 1363 is a "BCD to Decimal
> Decoder/Driver." The 849 1627 1371 is a "Counter/Storage Register."
> Fortunately Signetics datasheets still exist here
> (http://bitsavers.org/pdf/signetics/_dataBooks/1972_Signetics_Full_Lin...).
> It appears that the 906 (BCD to decimal decoder/driver) is equivalent to a
> Signetics 7441 (page 2-40) and the 849 (counter) is equivalent to a
> Signetics 8280 (page 3-90). So I think I've found all the features of the
> BIP-8820-1 along with the pinout.
>
> I'll post the schematic and pinout soon after I do a good test.
>
> Thanks for the tips!
>
> ~clu
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 11 March 2012 20:38:04 UTC-6, nixiebunny wrote:
>
> > On 3/11/12 5:12 PM, clu wrote:
> > > I found two old Signetics chips in there. The Signetics logo is the one
> > > used in the late 60s but I can't find any data using the part numbers on
> > > the chips. Can anyone identify these chips (image links below)(I'm
> > > assuming one decade counter with BCD output and a nixie driver)? I'd
> > > like to make an unofficial BIP-8820 datasheet for anyone else out there
> > > with these...
>
> > >http://i.imgur.com/V2Cos.jpg
>
> > >http://i.imgur.com/3nn1i.jpg
>
> > Those are definitely Burroughs house numbers, since the number on the PC
> > board under the chip in the second photo has a number with the same format.
>
> > Good luck on the reverse engineering!
>
> > --
> > David Forbes, Tucson AZ

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