Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[Wo Tu]

Hi !
Really interesting and great work. Looks really good and its a „want to 
have“.
Would be interested in pcb and code too , if possible a kit too.
Thank you.

Michail Wilson schrieb am Samstag, 4. März 2023 um 15:11:01 UTC+1:

> I am very interested as well.
>
>  
>
> Would love to have the code and pcb design and even a kit.
>
>  
>
> I read through the posts, but didn’t see anything other than the video.   
> Thumbs up on it too.   😊
>
>  
>
> Michail Wilson
>
> 206-920-6312 <(206)%20920-6312>
>
>  
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
> Of *jörg
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 4, 2023 7:14 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0
>
>  
>
> @Jon,
>
>
> yes, I will share the code. I have moved it to the VS Code IDE with 
> PlatformIO. I do not like the Arduino IDE much. It should run on david's 
> hardware, too.
> Do yo you have build the hardware already?
>
> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:12:46 AM UTC+1 David Forbes wrote:
>
> I was able to change to a Teensy 4.1 with a 2 channel 12 bit SPI DAC in my 
> latest version. I had to reduce the DAC rate by half. It looks just as good 
> as the old version. Of course, the DAC I chise is already unobtanium.
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 7:17 AM jörg  wrote:
>
> Hi, maybe a bit offtopic.
>
> I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the scope clock based 
> on david forbes one.
> The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware for a while.
>
> But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 internal DAC's, I 
> was curious to get the stuff up and running on the faster teensy 4.x CPU.
> In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 channels DAC. The 
> usage of a serial DAC was too slow and I did not get DMA up and running on 
> teensy4.x.
> Anyway, this works and I like it.
>
> Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw
>
>
> -- 
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>  
> 
> .
>
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>  
> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan

[gregebert]

The picture above confirms my suspicion that more-frequently-changing 
digits will die first. The dying hours tube is still a mystery to me; maybe 
it was previously used ? I learned about this as a kid when I would do 
stupid things like turning my room light on-and-off to annoy others. Yeah, 
my bulb always died pretty quickly...

There are 2 design enhancements you can do to prolong filament life. First, 
limit the inrush current by using a simple current regulator or drive from 
a higher voltage and add some series resistance. For example, if a filament 
typically runs at 40mA for a 5V supply, it's HOT resistance is 5/0.04 = 125 
ohms. I've seen cold resistance 4-5 times lower, so such a bulb could 
easily see surge-currents of 200mA. Now, if you drive the same filament 
from a 12V supply, and add a series resistance of (12-5)/0.04= 175 ohms, 
the peak surge current has been reduced to 60mA. This will reduce thermal 
shock, but not thermal cycling.

For rapidly-changing digits, such as the seconds, you may want to have all 
segments slightly energized just below visibility to reduce thermal 
cycling. I would guess somewhere around 10-20% of normal operating current 
is a good place to start.

What about PWM ? Well, that's a good question and I suppose if the 
frequency is high enough, say hundreds of Hz, there wouldn't be any added 
thermal cycling.  But you would likely hear some audible noise. Faster 
still, say 20-30 kHz, wont be audible but might have some unwanted 
harmonics that cause RFI in the AM band.

On Saturday, March 4, 2023 at 10:52:05 AM UTC-3 theoldpha...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
>  
>
> The numitrons are driven by a 4511 decoder, and according to their data 
> sheets the max. output at that voltage is 4.1 V, so that is well within 
> specification for the tube. Yes, I agree, lowering the voltage even further 
> should increase lifespan.
>
>  
>
> Bill v
>
>  
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf 
> Of *Chris
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 04, 2023 8:19 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan
>
>  
>
> Hi,
>
> While i am not sure for the IV9 numitrons have a look at the DA2300 
> lifetime expectancy,
>
>
>
> Basically reducing the voltage increases the life expectancy 
> exponentially. 
>
> So i usually run my numitrons at 4.5V or lower and have had no issues so 
> far.
>
> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 8:05:48 PM UTC+1 theold...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I seem to recall there was some discussion on the life expectancy of IV-9 
> numitrons some time ago. 
>
>  
>
> In 2015 I built a number of clocks with these tubes, and they started 
> failing last year. The clock in the picture is on my bench now, the three 
> good tubes were replaced in November last year. So today all 6 tubes will 
> be replaced. I have replaced all 6 tubes on a few other clocks also. One or 
> more segments will no longer light up, and I do not see any blackening of 
> the glass tube (The black you see in the picture is my permanent marker, s 
> I will not replace the wrong tube when I disconnect the power).
>
>  
>
> The tubes are driven directly from a 4511 chip on a 5V power line.
>
>  
>
> There does not seem to be any order in which they fail, so I do not have 
> the feeling that any of the tubes are significantly impacted by thermal 
> stresses from flashing on and off. I would say based on my experience with 
> them, the expected lifespan is about 7 years of continues use.
>
>  
>
> Bill v
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
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>  
> 
> .
>

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RE: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[Michail Wilson]

I am very interested as well.

Would love to have the code and pcb design and even a kit.

I read through the posts, but didn’t see anything other than the video.   
Thumbs up on it too.   😊

Michail Wilson
206-920-6312

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
jörg
Sent: Saturday, March 4, 2023 7:14 AM
To: neonixie-l 
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

@Jon,
yes, I will share the code. I have moved it to the VS Code IDE with PlatformIO. 
I do not like the Arduino IDE much. It should run on david's hardware, too.
Do yo you have build the hardware already?
On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:12:46 AM UTC+1 David Forbes wrote:
I was able to change to a Teensy 4.1 with a 2 channel 12 bit SPI DAC in my 
latest version. I had to reduce the DAC rate by half. It looks just as good as 
the old version. Of course, the DAC I chise is already unobtanium.



On Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 7:17 AM jörg  wrote:
Hi, maybe a bit offtopic.

I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the scope clock based on 
david forbes one.
The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware for a while.

But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 internal DAC's, I was 
curious to get the stuff up and running on the faster teensy 4.x CPU.
In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 channels DAC. The usage 
of a serial DAC was too slow and I did not get DMA up and running on teensy4.x.
Anyway, this works and I like it.

Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw


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RE: [neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan

[theoldphart2]

Hi Chris,

 

The numitrons are driven by a 4511 decoder, and according to their data sheets 
the max. output at that voltage is 4.1 V, so that is well within specification 
for the tube. Yes, I agree, lowering the voltage even further should increase 
lifespan.

 

Bill v

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Chris
Sent: Saturday, March 04, 2023 8:19 AM
To: neonixie-l 
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan

 

Hi,

While i am not sure for the IV9 numitrons have a look at the DA2300 lifetime 
expectancy,

   

Basically reducing the voltage increases the life expectancy exponentially. 

So i usually run my numitrons at 4.5V or lower and have had no issues so far.

On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 8:05:48 PM UTC+1 theoldpha...@gmail.com 
  wrote:

I seem to recall there was some discussion on the life expectancy of IV-9 
numitrons some time ago. 

 

In 2015 I built a number of clocks with these tubes, and they started failing 
last year. The clock in the picture is on my bench now, the three good tubes 
were replaced in November last year. So today all 6 tubes will be replaced. I 
have replaced all 6 tubes on a few other clocks also. One or more segments will 
no longer light up, and I do not see any blackening of the glass tube (The 
black you see in the picture is my permanent marker, s I will not replace the 
wrong tube when I disconnect the power).

 

The tubes are driven directly from a 4511 chip on a 5V power line.

 

There does not seem to be any order in which they fail, so I do not have the 
feeling that any of the tubes are significantly impacted by thermal stresses 
from flashing on and off. I would say based on my experience with them, the 
expected lifespan is about 7 years of continues use.

 

Bill v

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 .

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Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[Jon Jackson]

@jörg,
No, I have not yet built anything. Just "scoping" out where this will take
me.

On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 5:14 AM jörg  wrote:

> @Jon,
> yes, I will share the code. I have moved it to the VS Code IDE with
> PlatformIO. I do not like the Arduino IDE much. It should run on david's
> hardware, too.
> Do yo you have build the hardware already?
>
> On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:12:46 AM UTC+1 David Forbes wrote:
>
>> I was able to change to a Teensy 4.1 with a 2 channel 12 bit SPI DAC in
>> my latest version. I had to reduce the DAC rate by half. It looks just as
>> good as the old version. Of course, the DAC I chise is already unobtanium.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 7:17 AM jörg  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, maybe a bit offtopic.
>>>
>>> I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the scope clock based
>>> on david forbes one.
>>> The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware for a while.
>>>
>>> But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 internal DAC's,
>>> I was curious to get the stuff up and running on the faster teensy 4.x CPU.
>>> In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 channels DAC. The
>>> usage of a serial DAC was too slow and I did not get DMA up and running on
>>> teensy4.x.
>>> Anyway, this works and I like it.
>>>
>>> Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/a2701743-2b9b-4543-a0c0-32b8b90da85an%40googlegroups.com
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
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[neonixie-l] Re: IV-9 numitron lifespan

[Chris]

Hi,

While i am not sure for the IV9 numitrons have a look at the DA2300 
lifetime expectancy,

[image: https://www.dos4ever.com/numitron/lifenew.gif]

Basically reducing the voltage increases the life expectancy exponentially. 

So i usually run my numitrons at 4.5V or lower and have had no issues so 
far.

On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 8:05:48 PM UTC+1 theoldpha...@gmail.com wrote:

> I seem to recall there was some discussion on the life expectancy of IV-9 
> numitrons some time ago. 
>
>  
>
> In 2015 I built a number of clocks with these tubes, and they started 
> failing last year. The clock in the picture is on my bench now, the three 
> good tubes were replaced in November last year. So today all 6 tubes will 
> be replaced. I have replaced all 6 tubes on a few other clocks also. One or 
> more segments will no longer light up, and I do not see any blackening of 
> the glass tube (The black you see in the picture is my permanent marker, s 
> I will not replace the wrong tube when I disconnect the power).
>
>  
>
> The tubes are driven directly from a 4511 chip on a 5V power line.
>
>  
>
> There does not seem to be any order in which they fail, so I do not have 
> the feeling that any of the tubes are significantly impacted by thermal 
> stresses from flashing on and off. I would say based on my experience with 
> them, the expected lifespan is about 7 years of continues use.
>
>  
>
> Bill v
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[Max Di Noi]

Hello, what transformer do you use for the power supply? I'm about to build 
that clock and I was thinking of winding my own transformer but if an off the 
shelf version can be used that's easier. Thank you. 
 Original message From: jörg  Date: 
04/03/2023  12:14  (GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l  
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0 @Jon,yes, I will share the 
code. I have moved it to the VS Code IDE with PlatformIO. I do not like the 
Arduino IDE much. It should run on david's hardware, too.Do yo you have build 
the hardware already?On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:12:46 AM UTC+1 David Forbes 
wrote:I was able to change to a Teensy 4.1 with a 2 channel 12 bit SPI DAC in 
my latest version. I had to reduce the DAC rate by half. It looks just as good 
as the old version. Of course, the DAC I chise is already unobtanium.On Thu, 
Mar 2, 2023, 7:17 AM jörg  wrote:Hi, maybe a bit 
offtopic.I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the scope clock 
based on david forbes one.The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware 
for a while.But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 internal 
DAC's, I was curious to get the stuff up and running on the faster teensy 4.x 
CPU.In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 channels DAC. The 
usage of a serial DAC was too slow and I did not get DMA up and running on 
teensy4.x.Anyway, this works and I like it.Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw



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Re: [neonixie-l] ScopeClock with teensy4.0

[jörg]

@Jon,
yes, I will share the code. I have moved it to the VS Code IDE with 
PlatformIO. I do not like the Arduino IDE much. It should run on david's 
hardware, too.
Do yo you have build the hardware already?

On Friday, March 3, 2023 at 5:12:46 AM UTC+1 David Forbes wrote:

> I was able to change to a Teensy 4.1 with a 2 channel 12 bit SPI DAC in my 
> latest version. I had to reduce the DAC rate by half. It looks just as good 
> as the old version. Of course, the DAC I chise is already unobtanium.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 2, 2023, 7:17 AM jörg  wrote:
>
>> Hi, maybe a bit offtopic.
>>
>> I've put some effort in using the teensy4.x to run the scope clock based 
>> on david forbes one.
>> The teensy3.6 based one is running on my own hardware for a while.
>>
>> But because of CPU shortage and the use of the teensy3.6 internal DAC's, 
>> I was curious to get the stuff up and running on the faster teensy 4.x CPU.
>> In this approach I'm using a parallel driven 12 bit 4 channels DAC. The 
>> usage of a serial DAC was too slow and I did not get DMA up and running on 
>> teensy4.x.
>> Anyway, this works and I like it.
>>
>> Video: https://youtu.be/HYwgyYnQUxw
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/a2701743-2b9b-4543-a0c0-32b8b90da85an%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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