Re: mailto:

[Peter Young]

On 19 Feb 2018  Tim Hill  wrote:

> In article <3d20e8cc56.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young
>  wrote:

> [Snip]

>> It works here with a plain email address. See on
>> http://www.cheltglosntc.btck.co.uk/Walkinggroup where clicking my
>> email address opens an email in MPro correctly.

> Yes, that's a plain vanilla mailto: link which some people think gifts
> your address to spammers. Do you receive lots of spam?

No, not a huge amount. What I get is mostly on newsgroups, not via 
email. I think the Orpheus Internet filters are pretty good.

>> I realise that not everyone is keen on having their email addresses on
>> websites, but this is the only way it can be done on this site. I
>> wouldn't know a cgi-bin if in bit me.

> Coincidentally, I have just been adding 'munge' to
> http://timil.com/riscos and IME this conversion of a mailto link into
> entities seems enough to prevent harvesting by spammers. Or the ones that
> do are so useless it doesn't even reach me!

I don't think I can do that on the above site, but., as I said above, 
it's not a great deal of a worry for me.

Best wishes,

Peter.

-- 
Peter Young (zfc Pt) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyo...@ormail.co.uk

Re: mailto:

[Tim Hill]

In article <3d20e8cc56.pnyo...@pnyoung.ormail.co.uk>, Peter Young
 wrote:

[Snip]

> It works here with a plain email address. See on
> http://www.cheltglosntc.btck.co.uk/Walkinggroup where clicking my
> email address opens an email in MPro correctly. 

Yes, that's a plain vanilla mailto: link which some people think gifts
your address to spammers. Do you receive lots of spam?

> I realise that not
> everyone is keen on having their email addresses on websites, but this
> is the only way it can be done on this site. I wouldn't know a cgi-bin
> if in bit me.

Coincidentally, I have just been adding 'munge' to
http://timil.com/riscos and IME this conversion of a mailto link into
entities seems enough to prevent harvesting by spammers. Or the ones that
do are so useless it doesn't even reach me!

-- 

Tim Hill

timil.com : tjrh.eu : butterwick.eu : blue-bike.uk : youngtheatre.co.uk

Re: mailto:

[Peter Young]

On 19 Feb 2018  "Richard Torrens (lists)"  wrote:

> I think the response to mailto: may be broken!

> I have a new site
> http://www.burwellness.co.uk/
> where there is a contact link - if you want to try it, it is the link under
> Therapy Rooms to let

> This calls a cgi-bin which returns the email address. This works on
> Android/chrome and on Firefox, but not on Netsurf.

> I've used this system before with Netsurf, so something seems to have
> changed. The contact tab at the top uses the same cgi-bin but links to a
> web page.

It works here with a plain email address. See on 
http://www.cheltglosntc.btck.co.uk/Walkinggroup where clicking my 
email address opens an email in MPro correctly. I realise that not 
everyone is keen on having their email addresses on websites, but this 
is the only way it can be done on this site. I wouldn't know a cgi-bin 
if in bit me.

Best wishes,

Peter.

-- 
Peter Young (zfc Pt) and family
Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52, England
http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
pnyo...@ormail.co.uk

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Tim Hill]

In article <56ccec687fjoh...@ukgateway.net>, John Williams
 wrote:

[Snip]

> PS and yes, it is actually RISC OS, not RiscOS with its pseudo
> camel-case. Editor should have spotted that one!

The confusion of RiscPC and RISC OS is not a new phenomenon
just as WebJames is often called Webjames.

How about "doubleclicking" Vs double-clicking?

None of the meaning is lost in what was written and while I too like to
get things OCD-right, I think we can leave enforcement to trademark
owners!

Where's that old spelling I used to use in these cases. Oh yes!

The new Welsh operating system, rhisck/oH.eSs

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Tim Hill]

In article , Jim Nagel
 wrote:

[Snipped]

> (Begs the question:  why does RiscOS actually bother having a specific
> filetype for a CSS file?  

You don't need to give your HTML or CSS files an extension with WebJames.
It seems to use the filetype to create the MIME data.

Conversely, files with no .ext on an Apache server seem to be treated as
text and sent to the browser. I rely on this with 
http://timil.com/riscos/mimemap/mimemap

These are identical (ancient) files:
Apache (no .ext)
http://timil.com/links and 
WebJames (no .ext but correct HTML RISC OS filetype)
http://dev.timil.com/timil.com/links

-- 

Tim Hill

timil.com : tjrh.eu : butterwick.eu : blue-bike.uk : youngtheatre.co.uk

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[John Williams]

In article ,
   Jim Nagel  wrote:

> why does RiscOS actually bother having a specific filetype for a CSS
> file?  It's only text.  Doubleclicking it only loads it into a text
> editor.

Many files are just plain text, but the filetype is helpful in that an icon
can be assigned, helping to spot the required file visually by type rather
than looking for obscure file extensions or looking at contents.

It's how RISC OS does it, and I like it that way!

John

PS and yes, it is actually RISC OS, not RiscOS with its pseudo camel-case.
Editor should have spotted that one!

-- 
| John Williams 
| joh...@ukgateway.net

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Jim Nagel]

Michael Drake  wrote on 19 Feb:

> On 19/02/18 15:46, Jim Nagel wrote:

>>   - NetSurf displays the pages served up via WebJames perfectly,
>> except that it is NOT obeying the stylesheet

> I guess WebJames is not serving the CSS file with the "text/css" MIME
> type.  I think there's a mimemap file that lives somewhere in !Boot,
> which may need updated with an entry for CSS.  WebJames may ship with
> an example mimemap for this.

Ah, thanks again, Michael!  Found the required Mimemap syntax for a 
CSS entry in the "Solved problems" section of the Webjames helpfile.  
However, I then found I *already* have that entry in my Mimemap!

Then a closer look:  I found that the file   2018/css   had RiscOS 
filetype Text.  Changed filetype to CSS (), relaunched Webjames -- 
and now everything is fine!

(Begs the question:  why does RiscOS actually bother having a specific 
filetype for a CSS file?  It's only text.  Doubleclicking it only 
loads it into a text editor.  Nothing else in RiscOS except the 
browser, as far as I know, has any use for a CSS file.  The HTML page 
invokes the file as "xxx.css" and explicitly declares it as a 
stylesheet.  The distant host doesn't care about RiscOS filetypes.  
What was the mechanism that made the filetype matter in this case?
   Academic, I guess, now that it's working!)


-- 
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the show?   www.riscos-swshow.co.uk   Feb 24

mailto:

[Richard Torrens (lists)]

I think the response to mailto: may be broken!

I have a new site
http://www.burwellness.co.uk/
where there is a contact link - if you want to try it, it is the link under
Therapy Rooms to let

This calls a cgi-bin which returns the email address. This works on
Android/chrome and on Firefox, but not on Netsurf.

I've used this system before with Netsurf, so something seems to have
changed. The contact tab at the top uses the same cgi-bin but links to a
web page.

-- 
Richard Torrens.
http://www.Torrens.org for genealogy, natural history, wild food, walks, cats
and more!

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Michael Drake]

On 19/02/18 15:46, Jim Nagel wrote:

>   - NetSurf displays the pages served up via WebJames perfectly, 
> except that it is NOT obeying the stylesheet
I guess WebJames is not serving the CSS file with the "text/css"
MIME type.

I think there's a mimemap file that lives somewhere in !Boot, which
may need updated with an entry for CSS.

WebJames may ship with an example mimemap for this.

Cheers,

-- 
Michael Drake  http://www.codethink.co.uk/

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Jim Nagel]

Richard Porter  wrote on 19 Feb:

> I have the same problem. I'm running WebJames with its root directory
> as the directory containing my web sites. That means that "/" on the
> local site takes me back to the top level and not the root of the site
> I want.

Eureka!  I tried setting a system variable in 
Choices.Webjames.Attributes, on the DocumentRoot line and Webjames 
happily served it.  So in that attributes file I now have

 DocumentRoot 

and in the root directory of each of my sites I now have an obeyfile 
called   !!hey-Webjames  (the plings to put it at the top) containing

 set webjames-thissite$dir 
 filer_run SSD.$.Network.Servers.!Webjames
 (your pathname might differ)

Put a copy of the identical obeyfile into the root of each site.

So when I want to point Webjames at a single specific local site, 
simply doubleclick !!hey-Webjames in that site's root directory.
In Netsurf's URL bar type just "localhost" and Webjames serves it.

(Webjames doesn't seem to mind the apparently repeated filer_run line 
when it has already been running for a previous site.)


-- 
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the show?   www.riscos-swshow.co.uk   Feb 24

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Tim Hill]

In article <92f5dfcc56@6.abbeypress.net>, Jim Nagel
 wrote:
> Richard Porter  wrote on 19 Feb:
> > ... I don't think your ISP's software comes into it unless your ISP
> > is also your hosting company.

> Sorry: I used the wrong term.  I did mean the hosting company.

No, you didn't. Hosting is an internet service provided by an ISP, a
"Hosting ISP". It may not provide (your) Internet Access, which is just
ONE of the things an ISP may do. One of them. Some ISPs do not provide
internet connections at all; perhaps only email.

ISP should not be seen as synonymous with an "Access provider ISP".

I have seen the press making this mistake all the time. Amazing how it
has now become received wisdom.

Even Wikipedia gets this right.

-- 

Tim Hill

timil.com : tjrh.eu : butterwick.eu : blue-bike.uk : youngtheatre.co.uk

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Tim Hill]

In article <20180219154920.gj3...@platypus.pepperfish.net>, Rob Kendrick
 wrote:
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 03:46:41PM +, Jim Nagel wrote:
> >   - Netsurf displays the pages served up via Webjames perfectly,
> > except that it is NOT obeying the stylesheet (which is  /2018.css )
> > even though the Webjames log records a GET success for the CSS file
> > just as it did for the logo and paper and favicon. - Yet when Netsurf
> > fetches the identical page from my ISP's server, it DOES obey the
> > CSS.

> Complete guess: is your CSS source file set to the CSS type, or plain
> text type?  I'm not sure how NetSurf reacts to CSS files served with an
> appropriate Content-Type header.

Also, are you fetching your CSS with a suffix of ?v=1 or something?
Browsers are notorious for not fetching CSS files if they think they
don't need a new one, even if it's changed. Putting a fake variable on
the end seems to force a fetch.

-- 

Tim Hill

timil.com : tjrh.eu : butterwick.eu : blue-bike.uk : youngtheatre.co.uk

linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Tim Hill]

In article <9f33c3cc56@6.abbeypress.net>, Jim Nagel
 wrote:

[Snip]

>2018.css   or ../2018.css   or ../../2018.css   etc

[Snip]

> Is there a way around this?  

[Snip]

I'm going to run away and hide after writing this:

1. Apart from files in the root, link them all with ../ and copy the css
file into every directory except the last in each branch using an obey
file which you keep in the root so you can update them if you make a
change to the master. Yeah, okay, those people screaming at the back,
maybe not if you have hundreds of directories, or

2. Re-organise - flatten - your site so that this isn't a problem, or 

3. Learn PHP. ;-)  This can read the current directory of the script/page
that's running and depending on the host it finds, sets either
"[nothing]" or "/[extra path]" as the value of a path which prefixes
"/Style.css?v=1"

A copy of the script:
http://timil.com/riscos/_to-do/css_slash.txt

Output of the script from my servers:
Distant:
http://timil.com/riscos/_to-do/css_slash.php
Local:
http://87.127.161.109/timil.com/riscos/_to-do/css_slash.php

You'll need to change the value of the first variable to the first eight
letters of the string returned as "current path" from your local server
and also the second variable, which is the name of the local folder
containing you web site, assuming it's in your server's root. You can see
timil.com is kept locally in a folder with the same name as its proper
site's URL.

Then replace your CSS sheet  with everything between  and
 in the script on every page, and, oh, you'll also have to change
the name of your files from /htm to /php and make sure your
provider supports PHP and also that you're running a server with PHP
(such as WebJames+PHP). 

There. No changes to servers required.   ;-)

-- 

Tim Hill

timil.com : tjrh.eu : butterwick.eu : blue-bike.uk : youngtheatre.co.uk

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Jim Nagel]

Richard Porter  wrote on 19 Feb:
> ... I don't think your ISP's software comes into it unless your ISP is
> also your hosting company.

Sorry: I used the wrong term.  I did mean the hosting company.


-- 
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the show?   www.riscos-swshow.co.uk   Feb 24

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Rob Kendrick]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 03:46:41PM +, Jim Nagel wrote:
>   - Netsurf displays the pages served up via Webjames perfectly, 
> except that it is NOT obeying the stylesheet (which is  /2018.css ) 
> even though the Webjames log records a GET success for the CSS file 
> just as it did for the logo and paper and favicon.
>   - Yet when Netsurf fetches the identical page from my ISP's server, 
> it DOES obey the CSS.

Complete guess: is your CSS source file set to the CSS type, or plain
text type?  I'm not sure how NetSurf reacts to CSS files served with an
appropriate Content-Type header.

B.

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Richard Porter]

On 19 Feb 2018 Jim Nagel  wrote:

> Is there a way around this?  Is there some setting I would need to
> make in Netsurf to define what I mean by "/" as root?  (Presumably
> there is such a setting in my ISP's software, for I am not being taken
> to the root of their drive!)

I have the same problem. I'm running WebJames with its root directory 
as the directory containing my web sites. That means that "/" on the 
local site takes me back to the top level and not the root of the site 
I want.

Therefore all my links are relative if possible and links are explicit 
i.e. the index file is /index.html rather than /. The only places 
where relative links don't work are in error and acknowledgement pages 
which could be invoked from different levels of the hierarchy. These 
are addressed relative to the root i.e. /something and I put up with 
them not working on the local sites.

The other exceptions are in mouseover stuff for drop-down menus where 
they're not going to work in NetSurf anyway, and in data files for 
scripts for the same reason. For html forms I use absolute addresses.

I'm afraid that's just a workaround rather than a solution. I don't 
think your ISP's software comes into it unless your ISP is also your 
hosting company. Normally your web site will be loaded into 
public_html on the server and your ftp parameters should reflect this, 
so public_html is your root directory. I suppose you could push the 
site down a level to match your local setup and then have redirects 
for any links that go to the top level by default but I haven't tried 
this.

-- 
Richard Porter  http://www.minijem.plus.com/
t: @westernexplorer mailto:r...@minijem.plus.com
I don't want a "user experience" - I just want stuff that works.

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Daniel Silverstone]

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 10:35:22 +, Jim Nagel wrote:
> Is there a way around this?  Is there some setting I would need to 
> make in Netsurf to define what I mean by "/" as root?  (Presumably 
> there is such a setting in my ISP's software, for I am not being taken 
> to the root of their drive!)

The best way is if you can run a local web server and serve up the content
similarly to how it'd be served in production.  A common web development tactic
is to run up a simple server and visit http://localhost/ or
http://localhost:8000/ or similar, having it serve the site "normally" from
there.

If you have a Linux system available you could store the content on there,
and if everything is basic static content then you can serve a site trivially
by:

cd /path/to/website/base
python -m SimpleHTTPServer

it'll tell you what port it's on, and you can visit http://linuxbox:someport/

If you're stuck developing the site on RiscOS, then consider using a RAM disc
or similar because then your site would be a $ on the FS.

D.

-- 
Daniel Silverstone   http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged.Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69

Re: linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Michael Drake]

On 19/02/18 10:35, Jim Nagel wrote:

[snip]


Is there a way around this?


Use a webserver to serve the root directory of the web
site you're developing, and point your browser at
http://localhost/

I believe WebJames can do this on RISC OS.

Cheers,

--
Michael Drake  http://www.codethink.co.uk/

linking to root of website, not root of drive

[Jim Nagel]

I have tidied up one of my websites to make better use of CSS, and now 
intend to add some new pages to it.  Of course I want to keep it 
Netsurf-friendly.

The  section of each article includes the usual link to my 
stylesheet, which (in Linux filepath syntax) might be

   2018.css   or
   ../2018.css   or
   ../../2018.css   etc

depending how many branches back it roosts on the directory tree.

Advice from Linuxland tells me that simply prefixing a "/" with no 
dots before it makes the link "absolute" (to the root of the website) 
rather than relative to the page where we are when writing the link.  
IT would be quite handy to use this trick rather than having 
to adjust the links for stylesheet, page background and top-of-page 
graphic if I relocate a page in the directory structure.  This indeed 
works when viewing my page online.

However, when developing the page in the local copy of my site rather 
than online, the "absolute" version of the link looks for the *root 
directory of my own RiscOS drive* rather than the root of the website.  
If I make a copy of the stylesheet as  $.2018/css  Netsurf is happy.

Is there a way around this?  Is there some setting I would need to 
make in Netsurf to define what I mean by "/" as root?  (Presumably 
there is such a setting in my ISP's software, for I am not being taken 
to the root of their drive!)

Excuse me if this is a dumb question, but I haven't been here before.

http://glastonburyconservation.org.uk if anybody wants to have a look.

-- 
Jim Nagel www.archivemag.co.uk
|| See you at the show?   www.riscos-swshow.co.uk   Feb 24