Re: Latin as revolutionary act?
Lol why is it that every time there's a right wing resurgence, some edge lord academic wants to revive latin? On Sun, Nov 10, 2019 at 4:04 PM Keith Sanborn wrote: > Well, doesn’t one have to assume the proposition was presented as an > ironic gesture? > > I can’t really judge the sophistication of the schoolboy phrase presented > on the basis of style but in the age of machine translation it was easily > decoded by google translate. > > Consider the source. > > On Nov 10, 2019, at 3:20 PM, Garnet Hertz wrote: > > > Retreating into a dead language is the most idiotic thing I've heard in a > while - unless this is a symbolic parody of how isolated much of the > academic humanities is. Why not just stick w the outdated 1970s critical > theory that everyone already regularly invokes? > > Garnet Hertz > > > On Sun, Nov 10, 2019, 11:44 AM Iain Boal wrote: > >> Eheu Sean, >> >> As you say, 'Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a guarantee of >> anything.’ A training in Latin used to be regarded as a portal to the >> full resources of the English language, which is in effect a post-1066 >> Anglo-Norman creole. Historically this involved a training in “classics” >> (no accident that “classics” is cognate with “class”) and typically >> correlated with a privileged education. >> >> The Welsh critic and *tribunus plebis* Raymond Williams grappled head-on >> with the problem of English as a two-tiered diglossia. (He was looking in >> at English from the outside, approaching the language as a native Welsh >> speaker.) He saw clearly the problems produced by a language with class >> inscribed so deeply in the structure, and for that reason he suggested a >> regular column in the *Tribune* newspaper on 'difficult' words, >> especially those with polysyllabic Greek and Latin roots. The editors >> turned the proposal down, and so Williams published *Keywords*, never >> having had the chance to take on, in the pages of *Tribune*, what he >> thought was the disastrous policy of George Orwell, who had suggested that >> proletarians (or ‘nobodies’, in Morlock’s formula) stick to simple >> Anglo-Saxon monosyllables, more honest and less liable to fall into >> Stalinist obscurantism and gobbledegook. Williams considered this strategy >> a bogus and condescending populism that was all too easy a recommendation >> coming from the dissident Etonian and classical scholar Eric Blair. >> Ironically, learning Latin was, for Williams, a means to the precise >> antithesis of Morlock’s conceited proposal. >> >> Iain >> >> >> On 10 Nov 2019, at 07:14, Sean Cubitt wrote: >> >> Eheu Morlock >> >> sadly you picked the wrong language: the UK premiere B Johnson has made a >> habit of adding latin tags to his outrageous posh-boy persona behind which >> hides a refusal to publish a budget, the official financial predictions for >> Brexit, the results of an enquiry into alleged financial impropriety and >> the results of a major enquiry into Russian interference and donations to >> his party. Obscurity, especially in latin, is not a gurantee of anything >> >> perhaps ancient Greek . . . >> >> Sean Cubitt >> Goldsmiths, University of London >> (U of Melbourne from Jan 2020) >> -- >> *From:* nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org >> on behalf of nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org < >> nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org> >> *Sent:* 10 November 2019 11:00 >> *To:* nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> *Subject:* nettime-l Digest, Vol 146, Issue 17 >> >> Send nettime-l mailing list submissions to >> nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> nettime-l-ow...@mail.kein.org >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of nettime-l digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >>1. Latin as revolutionary act? (Morlock Elloi) >> >> >> -- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2019 14:48:36 -0800 >> From: Morlock Elloi >> To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org >> Subject: Latin as revolutionary act? >> Message-ID: <5dc74244.8090...@gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> What would be consequences of using Latin language among >> group/clique/cabal/underground/elite for discourse, publishing, idea >> exchange, tweets? (let's ignore for the moment how does one get the >> above set to learn Latin) >> >> First of all, the noise goes down, as there is intellectual effort >> barrier involved. Feeble-minded, distracted, low IQ, vacuous, and other >> nobodies are out. It would be like early Internet (1990s) - only nice >> and interesting people, no rabble. Only more resilient, because the >> 'price' of learning tongue will never g
morales / lingua franca
I had been thinking of a response to the Latin discussion . we already have a universal language, in fact three at least: mathematics, logic and code the last, the most recent, already shows signs of the long hand of capital; the others as we know are bent by economists and politicians. There is no pure and universal language (on which subject Eco wrote an amusing little book) What there is as cultural resource is the plurality of languages (including the current state of Englishes, shattering as latin did 1500 years ago into new languages - Naija, Patois, Ebonics, Hinglish . . .) AND crucially indigenous languages, languages smaller than (current) nation states, among which Quechua and Aymara. The tragedy of Morales (as a narrative of betrayed hope, whoever and whatever is to blame) also teaches that even marginalised languages cannot in themselves guarantee anything; that linguistic determinism is as useful as technological determinism, which is as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike (a metaphor, intended to demonstrate that neither is language as such of no use: it enables rather than determines, but to evolve it has to reach to resources beyond itself - not necessarily in other languages, but in the world of motorbikes and ashtrays (two words I do not find in my latin dictionary) sean Sean Cubitt Goldsmiths, University of London from 2 jan 2020: University of Melbourne # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Evo Morales: people of Bolivia are rising up
I don't think you have to defend the coup if you acknowledge that at the core why the coup was successful there may be an uprising of people who once backed Morales. Its more complicated than us against MAGA. Am 12. November 2019 02:28:00 MEZ schrieb frank tigrero : >Are we really on some MAGA right wing listserv defending the coup? What >the hell has happened here > >- Original message - >From: "jmp - j.martin.peder...@gmail.com" > >To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org >Subject: Re: Evo Morales: people of Bolivia are rising up >Date: Monday, November 11, 2019 7:19 PM > >On 11/11/2019 23:33, martha rosler wrote: >> is this where nettime is heading? Toward straight rightwing talking >points? >> Sheesh! >> Makes Morlock seem rational, or at least original. > >It is probably a little more complex than left/right, although it is so >conveniently nice and easy to reduce disagreements to that. > >The link >[https://towardfreedom.org/front-page-feature/bolivia-the-extreme-right-takes-advantage-of-a-popular-uprising/] >provided by Hanns Holger Rutz is informative: > >"...What caused the fall of the government of Evo Morales in Bolivia is >an uprising by the people of Bolivia and their organizations. Their >movements demanded his resignation before the army and police did. The >Organization of American States sustained the government until the >bitter end > >...The context for what is taking place in Bolivia didn’t start with >electoral fraud, rather it began with systematic attacks by the >government of Evo Morales and Álvaro García Linera against the same >popular movements that brought them to power, to the point that when >they needed the movements to defend them, the movements were >deactivated >and demoralized... > >...The social mobilization and the refusal of movements to defend what >in another moment they considered to be “their” government was what >precipitated Morales’ resignation. That is made clear by the >declarations by the Workers’ Central of Bolivia (COB), the teachers and >authorities of the Public University of El Alto (UPEA), and dozens of >other organizations, including Mujeres Creando, which has been perhaps >the clearest of all. The Latin American left appears unable to accept >that a considerable segment of popular movements demanded the >resignation of the government, because they can’t see beyond the >leaders >(los caudillos)..." > >It is written by Raul Zibechi, who is well respected by many lefty-like >researchers and >activists *who actually know what is going on in Latin America*: > >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%BAl_Zibechi > >https://towardfreedom.org/author/raul-zibechi/ > >On a personal note: I happened to be in Bolivia the week after Morales >went into office. There were protests. He was always unpopular with >many >indigenous and peasants, > >Same as Correa [Ecuador]. A Sarayaku activist friend said during >Correa's election campaign: "It will be great for the middle classes, a >disaster for us." > >And it was. > >Correa was praised and touted by Euro-American 'socialists' as some >sort >of beacon... In reality he was a cunning liar and ruthlessly used the >military to destroy indigenous questioning of his developmentalism. > >Back in those days I'd receive outraged mails from "lefties" calling me >a traitor when reporting... > >Here a txt msg from a Bolivian friend just came: > >"..Morales hords are terrorising la paz, burning houses, buses, >persecuting innocent people, etc..." > >.. and so on > >If you want to make this a left/right issue, you will always end up on >the right, but the wrong side.. The people of Bolivia are rising up ># distributed via : no commercial use without permission >#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, ># collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets ># more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l ># archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org ># @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: ># distributed via : no commercial use without permission >#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, ># collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets ># more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l ># archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org ># @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Evo Morales
What is hailing US-supported military coups then? Armchair fascism? Sorry for being sarcastic but there is no easy solutions to these conflicts. If you believe just one side of the story you are lost. Am 12. November 2019 00:00:22 MEZ schrieb Hanns Holger Rutz : >Maduro come next, to end the repressive regime in Venezuela. No tear >for >Morales from me and thirty million others. Have fun in your European >armchair+cocktail "socialism". > > >On 11/11/2019 23:49, Menno Grootveld wrote: >> Hi there! This is not so much lazy reporting as incredibly overt >> disinformation. >> >> You better read this: >> >> >https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/11/global-condemnation-appalling-coup-bolivia-military-forces-socialist-president-evo >> >> >> Op 11-11-19 om 22:10 schreef Felix Stalder: >>> [I don't know much about the situation in Bolivia, but reporting in >the >>> Western media seems incredibly lazy, portraying the situation as a >>> liberal uprising against an anti-democratic leader. >>> >>> There is obviously much more context than that. Some of it is >mentioned >>> in the below interview. Another aspect is that just a week ago, >Bolivia >>> cancelled a very large project to produce lithium with a German >company >>> after local protests again the project. Though that also is probably >>> more complex, because the German won the initial contract because >they >>> were they only ones willing to refine the Lithium locally, rather >than >>> simply export the raw material. Perhaps somebody with more direct >>> knowledge can add more information. Felix ] >>> >>> >>> >>> >https://www.democracynow.org/2019/11/11/evo_morales_bolivia_protests_military_coup >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Evo Morales was Bolivia’s first indigenous leader, was credited with >>> lifting nearly a fifth of Bolivia’s population out of poverty since >he >>> took office in 2006. But he faced criticism from some of his former >>> supporters for running for a third and then a fourth term. Evo >Morales’s >>> whereabouts are unknown. His home was ransacked Sunday. Mexico has >>> offered Morales asylum. Hours before resigning, Morales had agreed >to >>> call for new elections, after the Organization of American States >issued >>> a report claiming there was, quote, “clear manipulation” in last >month’s >>> election results. According to the official results of last month’s >>> election, Morales won 47% of the vote and just narrowly avoided a >runoff >>> election. But the OAS immediately questioned the election process, >>> sparking mass street protests. Critics of the OAS say the global >body >>> did not provide any evidence of actual vote rigging. >>> >>> We go now to Washington, D.C., where we’re joined by Mark Weisbrot, >>> co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, his >latest >>> piece for The Nation headlined “The Trump Administration Is >Undercutting >>> Democracy in Bolivia.” Talk about the latest developments, the >>> resignation of President Evo Morales, the first indigenous president >of >>> Bolivia. >>> >>> MARK WEISBROT: Well, this is a military coup. There’s no doubt about >it >>> now, after the head of the military told the president and vice >>> president to resign and then they did. And I think it’s really >terrible >>> the way it’s been presented, because, from the beginning, you had >that >>> OAS press release, the day after the election, which hinted — or >>> implied, actually, very strongly — that there was something wrong >with >>> the vote count, and they never presented any evidence at all. They >>> didn’t presented it in that release. They didn’t present it in their >>> next release. They didn’t present it in their preliminary report. >And >>> there’s really nothing in this latest so-called preliminary audit >that >>> shows that there was any fraud in this election. But it was repeated >>> over and over again in all the media, and so it became kind of true. >>> And, you know, if you look at the media, you don’t see anybody — you >>> don’t see any experts, for example, saying that there was something >>> wrong with the vote count. It’s really just that OAS observation >>> mission, which was under a lot of pressure, of course, from Senator >>> Rubio and the Trump administration to do this, because they wanted — >>> they’ve wanted for some time to get rid of this government. >>> >>> AMY GOODMAN: And explain how the election went — Morales stopping >the >>> election count, resuming it — and then what kind of majority he >needed >>> to avoid a runoff. >>> >>> MARK WEISBROT: OK. So, this is very important, because this has been >>> very badly described, I think, in most of the media. You have a >quick >>> count, which is not even the official count of the election, and >it’s >>> not binding. It’s not what determines the result. It’s just >something >>> that is done while the votes are being counted to let people know >what’s >>> going on at that time. And so, the quick count was interrupted, and >when >>> it resume
Latin as a devolutionary act
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Re: Evo Morales: people of Bolivia are rising up
You may dump links from "global thinkers" til the end of time, smug in your bad faith arguments about "us vs them," and concern trolling about the minutiae of What Is Government(tm), but the actual *facts* are that the military is ousting an elected official, the "opposition" is using the military to torture mayors of towns, kill protesters and in more prosaic but equally revealing moments, cutting the indigenous flag portion out of the Bolivian flag. Glad you're on the record as being in favor of a fascist government led by the military - although that makes you no more intelligent or compassionate than most Americans of the 20th and 21st century who believe whatever claptrap about central/south/latin America and their 'irregular democracies', and possess a profound ignorance of history to accompany it. But sure, Morales built a museum! My gods, what a tyrant. - Original message - From: "jmp - j.martin.peder...@gmail.com" To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org Subject: Re: Evo Morales: people of Bolivia are rising up Date: Tuesday, November 12, 2019 6:24 AM On 12/11/2019 01:28, frank tigrero wrote: > Are we really on some MAGA right wing listserv defending the coup? What the > hell has happened here On the contrary. It appears we are on a black/white (non)thinking list. Beyond left/right there are at least three more categories of political agency relevant here: 1: A frustrated people suffering from betrayal, suppression, lack of food and drink and acting outside of (the constraints of) specific party political philosophies. 2: Indigenous people and peasants who are neither left nor right, but not staying home tonight. 3: Anarchists. It is worrying that the world - *and this list* - has come to this simplicity of either/or and immediate outrage if a perceived party line and simple good/bad, us/them dichotomies are not submitted to. In that sense George Bush continues winning. Us or them. Then, to be a little more to the actual point: If you lump Zibechi (who has been reporting on the frontlines of social movements in Latin America for decades) in with the far right, then you are simply a fool. If you don't agree with his perspectives, then argue something, though it is difficult to really argue with what he is reporting, because he is actually mainly /reporting/ from the streets. If you want to find out more, see also the work of Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui: https://globalsocialtheory.org/thinkers/cusicanqui-silvia-rivera/ - "Bolivian historian and social theorist Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui is author of the classic work Oppressed But Not Defeated: Peasant Struggles Among the Aymara and Quechua in Bolivia, and has recently emerged as one of the country’s foremost critics of President Evo Morales from an indigenous perspective..": from: http://upsidedownworld.org/archives/bolivia/indigenous-anarchist-critique-of-bolivias-indigenous-state-interview-with-silvia-rivera-cusicanqui/ Taking a look at the world, assessing what is going on, is seemingly beyond ordinary agency these days and everything must, it appears, be instantly categorisable as good/bad; us/them. Don't think for yourselves people, my mind is made up and I am right. Now go back to bed (and your Twitter feed). Make Socialism Great Again? --- PS: A Bolivian friend just wrote: "...As the sociologist Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui suggested: Evo Morales is the Right. He has built a Museum in his town of origin to honour and celebrate his career. He thinks he has the right to stay there forever. He is a dangerous megalomaniac. Sounds familiar? Who else in the world would build a museum to celebrate his ego, who else would think that he could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and get away with it? Does the name of any ‘stable genius' come to mind?..." # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Evo Morales: people of Bolivia are rising up
it is about lithium https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/11/11/bolivian-coup-comes-less-week-after-morales-stopped-multinational-firms-lithium-deal it is about militias https://epoca.globo.com/coluna-na-bolivia-protestos-banalizam-mal-com-corte-de-cabelo-forcado-de-prefeita-24070607 and neopentecostal performances (30 thousand books burned at the presidential library, bible over flags) it is about satire of resistance https://www.lavaca.org/portada/bolivia-la-noche-de-los-cristales-rotos-por-maria-galindo/ a colinialidade viva e exposta as eternas veias abertas da america latina Em 2019-11-12 08:24, jmp escreveu: > On 12/11/2019 01:28, frank tigrero wrote: >> Are we really on some MAGA right wing listserv defending the coup? What the >> hell has happened here > > On the contrary. It appears we are on a black/white (non)thinking list. > > Beyond left/right there are at least three more categories of political > agency relevant here: > > 1: A frustrated people suffering from betrayal, suppression, lack of > food and drink and acting outside of (the constraints of) specific party > political philosophies. > 2: Indigenous people and peasants who are neither left nor right, but > not staying home tonight. > 3: Anarchists. > > It is worrying that the world - *and this list* - has come to this > simplicity of either/or and immediate outrage if a perceived party line > and simple good/bad, us/them dichotomies are not submitted to. In that > sense George Bush continues winning. Us or them. > > Then, to be a little more to the actual point: If you lump Zibechi (who > has been reporting on the frontlines of social movements in Latin > America for decades) in with the far right, then you are simply a fool. > If you don't agree with his perspectives, then argue something, though > it is difficult to really argue with what he is reporting, because he is > actually mainly /reporting/ from the streets. If you want to find out > more, see also the work of Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui: > https://globalsocialtheory.org/thinkers/cusicanqui-silvia-rivera/ - > > "Bolivian historian and social theorist Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui is > author of the classic work Oppressed But Not Defeated: Peasant Struggles > Among the Aymara and Quechua in Bolivia, and has recently emerged as one > of the country’s foremost critics of President Evo Morales from an > indigenous perspective..": > > from: > http://upsidedownworld.org/archives/bolivia/indigenous-anarchist-critique-of-bolivias-indigenous-state-interview-with-silvia-rivera-cusicanqui/ > > Taking a look at the world, assessing what is going on, is seemingly > beyond ordinary agency these days and everything must, it appears, be > instantly categorisable as good/bad; us/them. Don't think for yourselves > people, my mind is made up and I am right. Now go back to bed (and your > Twitter feed). > > Make Socialism Great Again? > > --- > > PS: A Bolivian friend just wrote: > > "...As the sociologist Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui suggested: Evo Morales > is the Right. He has built a Museum in his town of origin to honour and > celebrate his career. He thinks he has the right to stay there forever. > He is a dangerous megalomaniac. Sounds familiar? Who else in the world > would build a museum to celebrate his ego, who else would think that he > could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and get away with it? Does the name > of any ‘stable genius' come to mind?..." > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Evo Morales: people of Bolivia are rising up
On 12/11/2019 01:28, frank tigrero wrote: > Are we really on some MAGA right wing listserv defending the coup? What the > hell has happened here On the contrary. It appears we are on a black/white (non)thinking list. Beyond left/right there are at least three more categories of political agency relevant here: 1: A frustrated people suffering from betrayal, suppression, lack of food and drink and acting outside of (the constraints of) specific party political philosophies. 2: Indigenous people and peasants who are neither left nor right, but not staying home tonight. 3: Anarchists. It is worrying that the world - *and this list* - has come to this simplicity of either/or and immediate outrage if a perceived party line and simple good/bad, us/them dichotomies are not submitted to. In that sense George Bush continues winning. Us or them. Then, to be a little more to the actual point: If you lump Zibechi (who has been reporting on the frontlines of social movements in Latin America for decades) in with the far right, then you are simply a fool. If you don't agree with his perspectives, then argue something, though it is difficult to really argue with what he is reporting, because he is actually mainly /reporting/ from the streets. If you want to find out more, see also the work of Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui: https://globalsocialtheory.org/thinkers/cusicanqui-silvia-rivera/ - "Bolivian historian and social theorist Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui is author of the classic work Oppressed But Not Defeated: Peasant Struggles Among the Aymara and Quechua in Bolivia, and has recently emerged as one of the country’s foremost critics of President Evo Morales from an indigenous perspective..": from: http://upsidedownworld.org/archives/bolivia/indigenous-anarchist-critique-of-bolivias-indigenous-state-interview-with-silvia-rivera-cusicanqui/ Taking a look at the world, assessing what is going on, is seemingly beyond ordinary agency these days and everything must, it appears, be instantly categorisable as good/bad; us/them. Don't think for yourselves people, my mind is made up and I am right. Now go back to bed (and your Twitter feed). Make Socialism Great Again? --- PS: A Bolivian friend just wrote: "...As the sociologist Silvia Rivera Cusicanqui suggested: Evo Morales is the Right. He has built a Museum in his town of origin to honour and celebrate his career. He thinks he has the right to stay there forever. He is a dangerous megalomaniac. Sounds familiar? Who else in the world would build a museum to celebrate his ego, who else would think that he could shoot somebody on 5th Avenue and get away with it? Does the name of any ‘stable genius' come to mind?..." # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
