Re: A question in earnest (Max Herman)

[voyd]

Responding to Molly - 
I have been really pressed for time these days, but have enjoyed this 
conversation.
I hope I can give you the view from Arabia.
And I am returning to the USA soon.
Such and interesting perspective time from here.



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Re: A question in earnest (Max Herman)

[d . garcia]

Hi Max et al,

In terms of how things look from here, Biden as a candidate cuts a 
distinctly unimpressive figure. Not only is he the ultimate compromise 
candidate (a political 'weather vane' as Brian Holmes put it) but also 
his age and frailty stands in stark contrast to Trump’s remarkable 
vigour for a 74 year old. Whenever Biden appears, I find myself holding 
my breath hoping he won’t stumble verbally or literally.


But the speech he gave in Pennsylvania on Tuesday was (to my European 
ears) an uncharacteristically
strong performance. It laid out with genuine force and clarity what was 
at stake. And the sad fact is that his strongest card is that; *whatever 
you think of him he is not the worst that can happen to American 
democracy.*


The core of his pitch was to an insistence that this MUST be the moment 
of reckoning on racism in the US (as it must for us in Europe) combined 
with making the horror of Charlottesville the centrepiece of his speech 
by declaring that it was the Charlottesville that made him decide to 
run..


He made clear without equivocation who the enemy are, by painting a 
powerful picture of the very worst "Neo Nazis, white supremacists, and 
the KK coming out of the fields with torches alight, veins bulging. 
Chanting the same anti-Semitic bile heard across Europe in the 30s. It 
was hate on the march. In the open. In America.”


So responding to the question that prompted this thread, from this side 
of the pond this election cannot  achieve the best but it can and MUST 
avoid the worst in the form of another 4 years of Trump.


Those who live in the US should be in no doubt that though diminished 
the US still retains an enormous grip on the global political imaginary. 
And Trump's malign presence squats like a huge toad blocking progress. 
When he goes the relief though short lived will be deep and palpable.



PS

I suspect that 2 things that we tend to miss on this side of the pond is 
1.importance of control of the supreme court in US political life.. and 
2. The power of incumbency for a 1st term president.


1. Agreement over the importance of supreme court appointments is 
perhaps the one remaining thing that unites the warring tribes within 
the main parties. And though Trump's real support in the Republican 
party is thin his perceived success in appointing conservative justices 
to the supreme court could help him hold some of his fraying alliances 
within the party..


2. Those of us not following US politics closely forget just how rare it 
is for a challenger to successfully defeat an incumbent. Trump is the 
45th president and in the 20th century there have been just 4 first term 
presidents ejected from office at the hands of the electorate (William 
Howard Taft, Herbert Hoover, Jimmy Carter, George. H. W. Bush.)
The incumbent has enormous resources at their disposal to dominate the 
news cycle, make eye catching foreign policy interventions and generally 
exploit the optics of the White House and the Rose Garden as backdrop. 
Trump has not been shy of exploiting these advantages to the full and 
beyond! But there are signs that he has overplayed his hand. And that 
Biden’s low key start may have inadvertently been a bit of a 
‘rope-a-dope’ tactic tempting a desperate Trump (with creditors waiting 
their moment) to punch himself out too early.
Moreover occasionally incumbency is a disadvantage. Hoover and Carter 
respectively faced the great depression of the 30s and the great 
recession of the 1970s and it is very likely that Trump would have been 
in a strong position to roundly defeat Biden were it not for Covid. The 
very darkest of dark clouds can have a silver haired lining.


David Garcia


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Re: A question in earnest

[Michael Goldhaber]

Thanks, Molly, for  a relatively cheering summing up. However, I’m not quite 
ready to cheer until the election results are in and more or less accepted. 

US election laws still favor just two parties, and left ideas are just 
beginning to take a very partial hold among Dems nationally.. It’s a slow slog; 
progressives are extremely bad tacticians, it seems, outside of a very few 
multi-ethnic city neighborhoods. I remember voting (supposedly unprogressively) 
for the New American  Movement to join DSA in 1979, for example. And, equally 
quixotically, voting for Dick Gregory in 1968. But if Biden wins, I’ll feel as 
happy as I did the first time I voted, “all the way with LBJ.” Biden is less of 
a new -dealer than Johnson, but he may get talked into it, hopefully without a 
parallel war. 


Best,
Michael

> On Oct 4, 2020, at 11:59 PM, Molly Hankwitz  wrote:
> 
> Hello! 
> 
> Now that DT has Covid-19, it is as if some kind of sense has descended upon 
> this nation, a place recurrently gripped by sensations of flackery, fakery, 
> and flack. It is all quiet on the White House lawn...Left candidates 
> *have*retreated to the sidelines...sure. Biden wants us in the Paris 
> accord...wow!
> 
> What has become evident after that first debate and now with Covid is how 
> Trump didn’t want his job — and only as he got a taste for greater power - 
> look wistfully into the distance and say, “...greater power”...did he start 
> to like it. 
> 
> He’s gone. His believers see that through his own personal irresponsibility 
> he got the virus. Hes transparent. A ghost. A trouble making ghost. 
> Historical facts and figures are now outweighing any tripe he comes up with. 
> His model is old. It cannot sustain us. 
> 
> More importantly these last few days have exposed his cowardice. He wasn’t 
> going to say anything. I just hope Joe Biden doesn’t come down with Covid, 
> then there would be more upheaval. 
> 
> Biden is a “decent guy”. We need a decent guy for a while. We can’t take the 
> bombastic and we don’t have anyone else right now - ironically - to beat DT. 
> Honestly, I don’t care that Biden is the last husk of neoliberalism and the 
> Clinton effect. He’s capable, at least of civil discourse and collaboration. 
> He won’t shaft women. He is planning to rejoin the Paris Accord and fund 
> education so that our schools have enough money to reopen. He doesn’t stomp 
> around on his teeny tiny hobby horse screaming threats and sanctions. If we 
> never have to hear that kind of civil abuse again, perhaps we can as a nation 
> pull ourselves together to fight climate change because scientists (who know 
> more than DT) are real. 
> 
> We’ve been putting up with a gross uncle for the last 4 years. A deeply 
> cynical unhappy boorish sort of man who knows so much, he lacks all curiosity 
> which is the essence of the capacity to learn. Such a know it all and a no 
> nothing. 
> 
> Our election is teetering. Why isn’t Europe writing about it? 
> 
> I wonder...lay it on...right-wing groups in Europe are emboldened by DT 
> support for white nationalists? 
> 
> Is Europe waiting to see him voted out? What does Europe think about our 
> violent protests? Trumps use of Antifa...how backward he is? 
> 
> Surely you must all be as eager as I for social change? The good that has 
> arisen is all the young smart progressive politicians that have been voted 
> in, the flipping of the Senate, Sanders and Warren working on 
> committees...the life breathed into the Dem party, alongside 
> #BlackLivesMatter and huge support for that movement. The times have changed 
> in do many ways socially that the economy is going to have to change. 
> Macroeconomics. Money is going to have to be put into new budgets. The whole 
> place is a conversation that’s been trying to happen. What is the 
> conversation in other countries? 
> 
> Molly 
> 
>> On Oct 4, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Vincent Gaulin  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> The election is a sorry excuse for politics, let alone democracy.
>> 
>> There is no Left candidate. Biden is a human placeholder for the washed up 
>> hollow promises of neoliberal “normalcy”, and Trump is the cartoon version 
>> of a rich person with equally cartoonish ideas around governance (which 
>> isn’t to belittle the vast and very concrete destructiveness he has/is 
>> enacting).
>> 
>> There is very little room in “the election” and mainstream discourse to 
>> attend to the pressing issues bearing down on everyday life.
>> 
>> On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 5:16 AM Max Herman > > wrote:
>> 
>> Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?
>> 
>> I sound like a jerk to myself typing this but the silence is unexpected.
>> 
>> Are we all too afraid to say anything, or all just busy with other platforms?
>> 
>> 
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Fw: A question in earnest (Max Herman)

[Sean Cubitt]

Hi Brian

my mail seems to have got lost so - in response to your question about what 
other places are thinking, here's my note from Australia


From: Sean Cubitt 
Sent: Monday, 5 October 2020 8:47 AM
To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org 
Subject: Re: A question in earnest (Max Herman)

Hi max

"Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?"

In my case, mostly sheer depression, manifesting as lassitude.

>From outside, Trump's kleptocrats have not only looted the state they captured 
>and set the terms for civil war, but done possibly irreparable damage to the 
>planet. The selection of the opponent least likely to offend leads inevitably 
>to one without vision. The hegemony is passing westward across the Pacific. 
>Trump's illusion of restoring 'greatness' (imperial power, white privilege) is 
>only marginally less out of step with history than Boris Johnson's farcical 
>promise to restore the Empire as it was c. 1946, before the founding of the UN 
>and the new international regime - that is now mutating once again. The only 
>interest has been to see what new insanity Trump can come up with or be 
>revealed to be hiding, and the joke is wearing thin. Everyone hopes Trump 
>loses, heavily, but few people are inspired by the Democrat alternative. 
>No-one outside the States wants American cuisine, cars, sports or gun culture. 
>A new polity based on what the US is good at - music, movies, education and 
>gizmos - combined with a return to isolationism that would leave the rest of 
>us in peace is the best we can hope for. It may not be so long till the 
>Mexican government does complete the wall - to keep the yanquis out (the 
>problem was never people coming in; it was always money gushing out). Watching 
>the election, from outside, is like watching a script conference for the 
>ninety-ninth sequel to Dumb and Dumber, where all the writers are on codeine. 
>What's really shocking is that a substantial number of US citizens appear 
>ready to vote for this brazenly corrupt sock puppet

 I understand trumpistas want to vote for sexism, racism and a return to 
colonialism; I understand that the American idea of 'freedom' bears no relation 
to anyone else's idea of collective responsibilities. American exceptionalism, 
from its weird spelling to its archaic units of measurement, was always funny. 
Now it is absurd in the Beckett and Ionesco sense: an assertion of identity 
where there is only conformism, and of nation at the moment of its 
disintegration. The election is a horrible farce at the brink of the abyss, or 
somewhere more banal, like the vortex of dirty water draining out of a bathtub. 
Washington is eating itself alive, and its voters are pouring on the barbecue 
sauce. The tea-party anarcho-capitalists said they would drain the swamp but 
omitted to mention they would drain it into the pockets of their billionaire 
donors at home and - increasingly - abroad.

The 2016 election was a tragedy. This one is a farce. Probably Ishtar: a madly 
expensive production that no-one can bear to watch

best of luck finding a way out!

sean



Sean Cubitt
Melbourne/Australia

scub...@unimelb.edu.au


New Book: Anecdotal Evidence

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/anecdotal-evidence-9780190065720?lang=en&cc=au#


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Subject: nettime-l Digest, Vol 157, Issue 3

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Today's Topics:

   1. A question in earnest (Max Herman)


--------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 16:47:57 +
From: Max Herman 
To: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" 
Subject:  A question in earnest
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?

I sound like a jerk to myself typing this but the silence is unexpected.

Are we all too afraid to say anything, or all just busy with other platforms?


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Re: A question in earnest (Max Herman)

[Sean Cubitt]

Hi max

"Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?"

In my case, mostly sheer depression, manifesting as lassitude.

>From outside, Trump's kleptocrats have not only looted the state they captured 
>and set the terms for civil war, but done possibly irreparable damage to the 
>planet. The selection of the opponent least likely to offend leads inevitably 
>to one without vision. The hegemony is passing westward across the Pacific. 
>Trump's illusion of restoring 'greatness' (imperial power, white privilege) is 
>only marginally less out of step with history than Boris Johnson's farcical 
>promise to restore the Empire as it was c. 1946, before the founding of the UN 
>and the new international regime - that is now mutating once again. The only 
>interest has been to see what new insanity Trump can come up with or be 
>revealed to be hiding, and the joke is wearing thin. Everyone hopes Trump 
>loses, heavily, but few people are inspired by the Democrat alternative. 
>No-one outside the States wants American cuisine, cars, sports or gun culture. 
>A new polity based on what the US is good at - music, movies, education and 
>gizmos - combined with a return to isolationism that would leave the rest of 
>us in peace is the best we can hope for. It may not be so long till the 
>Mexican government does complete the wall - to keep the yanquis out (the 
>problem was never people coming in; it was always money gushing out). Watching 
>the election, from outside, is like watching a script conference for the 
>ninety-ninth sequel to Dumb and Dumber, where all the writers are on codeine. 
>What's really shocking is that a substantial number of US citizens appear 
>ready to vote for this brazenly corrupt sock puppet

 I understand trumpistas want to vote for sexism, racism and a return to 
colonialism; I understand that the American idea of 'freedom' bears no relation 
to anyone else's idea of collective responsibilities. American exceptionalism, 
from its weird spelling to its archaic units of measurement, was always funny. 
Now it is absurd in the Beckett and Ionesco sense: an assertion of identity 
where there is only conformism, and of nation at the moment of its 
disintegration. The election is a horrible farce at the brink of the abyss, or 
somewhere more banal, like the vortex of dirty water draining out of a bathtub. 
Washington is eating itself alive, and its voters are pouring on the barbecue 
sauce. The tea-party anarcho-capitalists said they would drain the swamp but 
omitted to mention they would drain it into the pockets of their billionaire 
donors at home and - increasingly - abroad.

The 2016 election was a tragedy. This one is a farce. Probably Ishtar: a hugely 
expensive production that no-one wants to watch

best of luck finding a way out!

sean



Sean Cubitt
Melbourne/Australia

scub...@unimelb.edu.au


New Book: Anecdotal Evidence

https://global.oup.com/academic/product/anecdotal-evidence-9780190065720?lang=en&cc=au#


From: nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org  on 
behalf of nettime-l-requ...@mail.kein.org 
Sent: Sunday, 4 October 2020 9:00 PM
To: nettime-l@mail.kein.org 
Subject: nettime-l Digest, Vol 157, Issue 3

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nettime-l@mail.kein.org

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Today's Topics:

   1. A question in earnest (Max Herman)


----------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2020 16:47:57 +
From: Max Herman 
To: "nettime-l@mail.kein.org" 
Subject:  A question in earnest
Message-ID:



Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"


Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?

I sound like a jerk to myself typing this but the silence is unexpected.

Are we all too afraid to say anything, or all just busy with other platforms?


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Re: A Question in Earnest

[Allan Siegel]

Dear Liz,
Thanks for a timely condensed and basically spot-on history lesson. 
Herbert Marcuse was right: "repressive sublimation" has a long-afterlife 
deeply embedded in the America's delusional dreams... and the 
progressive left in the U.S. has yet to find its way of the tunnel 
vision of two-party politics...


"Keep on pushin..." it's the only way right now.

allan
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Re: A question in earnest

[JNMRom]

Le 05/10/2020 à 19:31, Brian Holmes a écrit :



Our election is teetering. Why isn’t Europe writing about it?


Europe is writing a lot on it.

I summarize : we are afraid for you.

4 years ago, when an uneducated clown, financial loser, and pathological 
liar, was elected with the support of Russia through social networks 
algorithms, (we remember also that H. Clinton had 3 million more votes 
than BT), we have seen a confirmation of the collapse of democracy in US.


This collapse started years ago with the possibility to use social 
networks to manipulate voters. Obama initiated the method in 2008, and 
all the planet is now practising the same way.


This collapse started long time ago in US with the huge amount of money 
gathered by each candidate during the campaigns, bigger and bigger each 
year, allowing many possibilities of manipulation of voters. Impossible 
to buy democracy.


But this collapse is not only the collapse of democracy, but also the 
collapse of US society. We are afraid of the growing ignorance, people 
don't inform themselves trough real journalism work, but trough social 
networks algorithms construction. US digital and mediatic system 
magnifies all the toxic components of this destructuration: bigotry, 
racism, armed violence, irrationality, ignorance. No cultural cement 
holds the building anymore.


Worst, social networks algorithms have chopped the people in hundred 
thousands gated communities, non communicating with each others. 
Artificial collective identities. Micro-nazisms. We are afraid of the 
divisions of your nation, and of course afraid of the amount of guns in 
your country. The amount of guns in US has reached a summit of stupidity 
and danger. Just compare:

https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/compare/194/number_of_privately_owned_firearms/66,69,192

The more people are divided and angry, the more they want to use their gun.

Civil war is possible.  If DT refuses to leave the power during the 
election chaos in november, any spark can launch a long period of 
chaotic armed troubles. With Covid prowling around the house.



In the Left and Green parties, in Europe, we were very happy, in 2019, 
to see Sanders almost elected as Dem candidate. Sanders/AOC would have 
been a so good refreshing spring. Biden is physically and intellectualy 
too old. I was personnaly confident in Sanders vs Trump, despite many 
analysis describing the contrary. It's the shame that the US left can 
not "invent" a better candidate years before the election. I hope AOC 
will emerge as a natural leader in the future, if any.


If Biden is elected, we hope that Kamala Harris can take the power 
and/or provide a good support and advices to Biden.
But, for the results of this election, we think that Russia is the 
master of the game. For many reasons, Putin is very happy of the US 
collapse, that's why he supports Trump re-election. He perfectly knows 
that Trump is destroying the country. And Putin can also directely 
manipulate Trump. In french, we say, about Putin on Trump " il le tient 
par les couilles". Putin can release the golden showers tapes, or any 
other kompromat documents involving Trump, anytime.


One positive point in this dark landscape around election blocking, is 
the possibility of the biggest world financial collapse ever, following 
the election troubles, an essential cure for the planet's atmosphere.
We don't forget that the main topic is that the planet is on fire, and 
that all usual resources will be exhausted in this century (energy, 
metals, biodiversity-food, etc).


The collapse of US in this elections could sign the inevitable & 
ultimate global collapse of capitalism, and start a long period of 
troubles and recomposition. In my opinion, it's better to assist to this 
collapse now, rather than later, because of the lack of resources if we 
wait more and accelerate ever more in front of the wall.



Cheers,
JN










I wonder...lay it on...right-wing groups in Europe are emboldened by DT
support for white nationalists?

Is Europe waiting to see him voted out? What does Europe think about our
violent protests? Trumps use of Antifa...how backward he is?

Surely you must all be as eager as I for social change? The good that has
arisen is all the young smart progressive politicians that have been voted
in, the flipping of the Senate, Sanders and Warren working on
committees...the life breathed into the Dem party, alongside
#BlackLivesMatter and huge support for that movement. The times have
changed in do many ways socially that the economy is going to have to
change. Macroeconomics. Money is going to have to be put into new budgets.
The whole place is a conversation that’s been trying to happen. What is the
conversation in other countries?

Molly

On Oct 4, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Vincent Gaulin 
wrote:


The election is a sorry excuse for politics, let alone democracy.

There is no Left candidate. Biden is a human placeholder for the washed up
hollow promises 

Re: A question in earnest

[lizvlx]

Hi hallo privyet.

Ok let’s go at it.

Premark: this is a central-eastern-european perspective.

I am not betting a single penny on Trump being hurt by his Coronastunt - I call 
it stunt coz it don’t matter if he really infected or just faking it - he sure 
is using it for the bestest propaganda he can come up with.

I am not going to say anything about Biden, as clearly a garden shed could be 
running against Trump and still anybody voting for the Donald would be nothing 
but an idiot, racist or asshole. Or all of it, of course.

I find it funny you might call Trump a coward. Coz he sure is not. I find it 
pretty naive to think him a coward.

Then, you have not been putting up with a gross uncle. Last time I checked 
gross uncles might pull disgusting jokes and touch someone inappropriately - 
but they don’t really enjoy kids getting forever separated from their parents 
or babies dying in concentration camps, kidnapping ppl off the streets and 
such. 
To me, that’s rather 4 years with a serial killer.

Why isn’t Europe writing about it?
What you mean? Of course it is - but there is not a lot to write.
Corona politics in the USA are not to be written about, it is too stupid. 
The election process is always ridiculous, I mean, what kinda country can’t 
organise a regular vote on a Sunday with plenty of voting spots so ppl don’t 
have to stand in line - or just have a regular mail-in system.
That is nothing you can write about. The USA is s far removed from any 
logic, we know, we cannot  care anymore.

Sidenote: The constant whining of the American white citizen about the disaster 
happening is hollow. It only really started when it attacked the white (wo)man. 
As long as Iraqis and Afghanis and (insert other war-location) got killed, 
White America was still full of hope.

Well, I have not been even half full of hope for America since midnight of dec 
31st 1999.
Thats when Hans and I and his dad talked about how the USA will collapse. If it 
will be outward or inward, and so on.

So - nobody is surprised, there is nothing to write.

Ok, on to your other questions…

What does Europe think about “your violent protests” — violent protests are a 
standard in any healthy democracy. People don’t always “behave properly”. That 
lil bit of demonstration that sometimes goes violent - well, one would hope so, 
given the circumstances in the USA. Everybody knows that American police is an 
uncontrolled war machine, so yeah, sure, why not arrest reporters and ignore 
any rules whatsoever. Nothing new.

But it is utterly boring to still hear the lamenting of White America on 
protests having to be peaceful. How can anybody be peaceful in a country that 
is itself nothing but aggression.

Because you asked - at least here in lil Austria and for the most part that’s 
also true for all neighbouring countries - Trump is not helping the far right 
here. Even the far right here find him unbearable. But I think that is also due 
to the fact that seeing the downfall of the USA is no good marketing for the 
right-wing agenda anyways.

I think most of Europe does not wait  for him to be voted out, but rather 
prepares itself further for international politics without the USA. If he 
stays, that’s anyway the way to go, if he has to leave, it will not mean that 
it will be back to normal just like that. And if he would have to leave kinda 
but will not - again, nobody can help the USA with that rather grim scenario.

Basically, here in Austria, nobody talks about the USA. It stopped about 1 year 
after he took office. There is nothing to talk about any more. Exploding trees 
and forest cities killing Black Americans Muslim ban and forced sterilisation 
and highschool shootings and — FUCKING BLAMING RUSSIA for everything.

Jesus, when will Americans own up to the shit they are in? No, Murica, it was 
not Russia that brought you this, this is your own doing. 
(And don’t think of discussing this, coz first you would have to discuss why 
freakin USA meddles with pretty much any election - like #ukraine - vErY gOoD 
jOb RiGht tHere).

So, no, nobody talks America no more. Nobody wants to go there, nobody is that 
interested in nothing anymore. The UK and the USA are 20th century dinosaurs it 
seems. They used to be impressive but now they just old.

I don’t get what you meant with “you must be as eager for social change as I” — 
I mean there been stuffs happening in the last 20 years that were way to 
neoliberal, but also many good old socialists things got set into practice. I 
am waiting for climate action, social change as in less stupid men in power 
positions and new approaches to unpaid work - and of course the further 
strengthening of our neighbours, the African countries. 
But Austria (any pretty much all of Europe) is in such a totally different 
place than the USA, I can’t relate to American stuff anymore. 

Here, we are 1 week before city elections in Vienna, and as Vienna has always 
since ALWAYS been a red (aka s

Re: A question in earnest

[Alessandro Delfanti]

Hello, my two cents from Canada and with an eye on my old country Italy.

While I share some of Brian's and Molly's hopes about the fall of the 
Republican party, I would not write Trump out just yet. He may very well 
manage to turn this hospitalization in his favour. Like for other 
contemporary populist politicians, the body of the leader is very much a 
biopolitical battleground here. I am thinking Berlusconi's sexual drive, 
for example -- or rather the way in which he managed to successfully use 
revelations about his habits as signals of his masculinity and youth.


Trump has already started weaponizing his recovery from the virus. We 
can very well expect him and his entourage to use it as a key propaganda 
trope, e.g. portraying him as strong, moralizing his ability to 'defeat' 
the virus, and en passage confirming that the virus is not that 
dangerous after all. If he quickly gets out of the hospital and nobody 
in the White House outbreak dies or gets seriously ill, this may turn 
the table with regard to his role in the virus crisis.


Finally, the American public and even more so the Republican electorate 
may not necessarily be aware and/or care, but let's not forget that many 
other leaders have caught the virus. Nobody was as careless as the White 
House, of course, but remember Johnson, Trudeau, ministers in many 
European countries and in Brasil... the list goes on.


Biden may be able to step up his own biopolitical game and inject even 
more care and empathy in his public persona -- he is certainly good at 
that! -- and this will help defeat the evil egoistical superspreader 
president.


On a different note, Biden and/or the Democratic Party have been 
incorporating demands and platforms from the left but none stems 
directly from Biden. He is struggling to convey energetically any iconic 
policy or political proposal because his platform conflicts so much with 
his history and ideological dispositions. He's got nothing like Trump's 
wall, or Bernie's socialized healthcare system. From this viewpoint in 
my opinion he is even weaker than Clinton in a sense.


Definitely NOT a boring election
Alessandro



Molly said it all, but let's give Joe Biden his two bits:

"The economy. Climate change. Health care. Civil rights. Racial 
justice.

The U.S. Supreme Court. Our democracy. They’re all on the line. Vote."
(https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1312907856161705985)

Biden is an old hack and a political weathervane, for sure. But we
progressives and socialists are creating the weather. On all of the
subjects listed here, we can make huge changes happen by pushing the
Democrats to the left. This can be achieved by an explosion of pent-up
demands nurtured by civil society during the long political quarantine 
of
the Trump administration. The first step is removing Trump and 
discrediting
the Republican party, which can be achieved by what's called a 
"blowout" -
that's a crushing defeat that flips the Senate to Democratic control 
and
increases the margin in the House. It's now a realistic possibility, 
after
the utter disgrace of Trump's behavior in the debate, plus the deep 
sense
of disgust generated by the White House superspreader event. If a 
blowout

happens, does anyone think Progressives and Socialists will stop there,
suddenly becoming passive and complicit with a don't-rock-the-boat
administration? Hell no, after any sort of victory at the polls we're 
going

to push urgently for structural changes in the way this country is run,
including statehood for DC and Puerto Rico, which would add four new
senators and solve the Republican problem for a long time to come, 
thereby

opening up political space to deal rationally with economic, racial and
ecological crises.

There have been two major obstacles to the kind of changes we are 
seeking:
1. a hegemonic link between conservative values and neoliberal policy; 
and
2. fiscal austerity. The basic contradiction and stinking hypocrisy of 
the
neocon link have been incarnated by Trump, and that coalition of 
cultural

conservatives and extractivist capital will fall with him, for the time
being at least. As for fiscal austerity, it will be replaced by a 
sweeping

economic stimulus based on fiat money -- an urgent measure which will
definitely pass a Democratic House and Senate, but whose final forms 
could

vary tremendously, between maintenance of the status quo and
transformation. This election offers a chance to push for the latter, 
along

the lines sketched out by Bernie Sanders and AOC. The creation of fresh
money for federal policy goals (and not just to support the financial
system) is the only conceivable way to literally retool the economy, 
while

simultaneously reshaping the racist and frankly imperialist social
relations that are inseparable from the current extractivist toolkit. 
Biden

is already proposing a Green New Deal in all but name, so let's add the
name and make it really work.

This US election is a potential t

Re: A question in earnest

[Brian Holmes]

Molly said it all, but let's give Joe Biden his two bits:

"The economy. Climate change. Health care. Civil rights. Racial justice.
The U.S. Supreme Court. Our democracy. They’re all on the line. Vote."
(https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1312907856161705985)

Biden is an old hack and a political weathervane, for sure. But we
progressives and socialists are creating the weather. On all of the
subjects listed here, we can make huge changes happen by pushing the
Democrats to the left. This can be achieved by an explosion of pent-up
demands nurtured by civil society during the long political quarantine of
the Trump administration. The first step is removing Trump and discrediting
the Republican party, which can be achieved by what's called a "blowout" -
that's a crushing defeat that flips the Senate to Democratic control and
increases the margin in the House. It's now a realistic possibility, after
the utter disgrace of Trump's behavior in the debate, plus the deep sense
of disgust generated by the White House superspreader event. If a blowout
happens, does anyone think Progressives and Socialists will stop there,
suddenly becoming passive and complicit with a don't-rock-the-boat
administration? Hell no, after any sort of victory at the polls we're going
to push urgently for structural changes in the way this country is run,
including statehood for DC and Puerto Rico, which would add four new
senators and solve the Republican problem for a long time to come, thereby
opening up political space to deal rationally with economic, racial and
ecological crises.

There have been two major obstacles to the kind of changes we are seeking:
1. a hegemonic link between conservative values and neoliberal policy; and
2. fiscal austerity. The basic contradiction and stinking hypocrisy of the
neocon link have been incarnated by Trump, and that coalition of cultural
conservatives and extractivist capital will fall with him, for the time
being at least. As for fiscal austerity, it will be replaced by a sweeping
economic stimulus based on fiat money -- an urgent measure which will
definitely pass a Democratic House and Senate, but whose final forms could
vary tremendously, between maintenance of the status quo and
transformation. This election offers a chance to push for the latter, along
the lines sketched out by Bernie Sanders and AOC. The creation of fresh
money for federal policy goals (and not just to support the financial
system) is the only conceivable way to literally retool the economy, while
simultaneously reshaping the racist and frankly imperialist social
relations that are inseparable from the current extractivist toolkit. Biden
is already proposing a Green New Deal in all but name, so let's add the
name and make it really work.

This US election is a potential turning point for the twenty-first century
- as the last one was. The difference is, this time a lot more people are
fully conscious of its importance, plus the swing will likely be to the
left. It is up to all of us, even outside the US, to create the new
hegemonic link between ecological/egalitarian values and industrial
transformation that alone can create any hope of a viable future.
Capitalism remains one system, and while the US may no longer be its center
and linchpin, it can still help turn the tide of future development. For
instance it is clear that a blowout defeat of Trump would be of great value
to progressive political outcomes in Brazil, much of Europe and potentially
Australia.

None of which erases the need to help prevent a coup over the next three
months! We are still in an emergency situation. It's hard to fathom all
that's at stake.

Not so boring an election in my view... Like Molly, I am totally curious
how people in other countries see it.

BH



On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 1:59 AM Molly Hankwitz 
wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Now that DT has Covid-19, it is as if some kind of sense has descended
> upon this nation, a place recurrently gripped by sensations of flackery,
> fakery, and flack. It is all quiet on the White House lawn...Left
> candidates *have*retreated to the sidelines...sure. Biden wants us in the
> Paris accord...wow!
>
> What has become evident after that first debate and now with Covid is how
> Trump didn’t want his job — and only as he got a taste for greater power -
> look wistfully into the distance and say, “...greater power”...did he start
> to like it.
>
> He’s gone. His believers see that through his own personal
> irresponsibility he got the virus. Hes transparent. A ghost. A trouble
> making ghost. Historical facts and figures are now outweighing any tripe he
> comes up with. His model is old. It cannot sustain us.
>
> More importantly these last few days have exposed his cowardice. He wasn’t
> going to say anything. I just hope Joe Biden doesn’t come down with Covid,
> then there would be more upheaval.
>
> Biden is a “decent guy”. We need a decent guy for a while. We can’t take
> the bombastic and we don’t have anyone e

Re: A question in earnest

[Molly Hankwitz]

Hello! 

Now that DT has Covid-19, it is as if some kind of sense has descended upon 
this nation, a place recurrently gripped by sensations of flackery, fakery, and 
flack. It is all quiet on the White House lawn...Left candidates 
*have*retreated to the sidelines...sure. Biden wants us in the Paris 
accord...wow!

What has become evident after that first debate and now with Covid is how Trump 
didn’t want his job — and only as he got a taste for greater power - look 
wistfully into the distance and say, “...greater power”...did he start to like 
it. 

He’s gone. His believers see that through his own personal irresponsibility he 
got the virus. Hes transparent. A ghost. A trouble making ghost. Historical 
facts and figures are now outweighing any tripe he comes up with. His model is 
old. It cannot sustain us. 

More importantly these last few days have exposed his cowardice. He wasn’t 
going to say anything. I just hope Joe Biden doesn’t come down with Covid, then 
there would be more upheaval. 

Biden is a “decent guy”. We need a decent guy for a while. We can’t take the 
bombastic and we don’t have anyone else right now - ironically - to beat DT. 
Honestly, I don’t care that Biden is the last husk of neoliberalism and the 
Clinton effect. He’s capable, at least of civil discourse and collaboration. He 
won’t shaft women. He is planning to rejoin the Paris Accord and fund education 
so that our schools have enough money to reopen. He doesn’t stomp around on his 
teeny tiny hobby horse screaming threats and sanctions. If we never have to 
hear that kind of civil abuse again, perhaps we can as a nation pull ourselves 
together to fight climate change because scientists (who know more than DT) are 
real. 

We’ve been putting up with a gross uncle for the last 4 years. A deeply cynical 
unhappy boorish sort of man who knows so much, he lacks all curiosity which is 
the essence of the capacity to learn. Such a know it all and a no nothing. 

Our election is teetering. Why isn’t Europe writing about it? 

I wonder...lay it on...right-wing groups in Europe are emboldened by DT support 
for white nationalists? 

Is Europe waiting to see him voted out? What does Europe think about our 
violent protests? Trumps use of Antifa...how backward he is? 

Surely you must all be as eager as I for social change? The good that has 
arisen is all the young smart progressive politicians that have been voted in, 
the flipping of the Senate, Sanders and Warren working on committees...the life 
breathed into the Dem party, alongside #BlackLivesMatter and huge support for 
that movement. The times have changed in do many ways socially that the economy 
is going to have to change. Macroeconomics. Money is going to have to be put 
into new budgets. The whole place is a conversation that’s been trying to 
happen. What is the conversation in other countries? 

Molly 

> On Oct 4, 2020, at 5:26 PM, Vincent Gaulin  wrote:
> 
> 
> The election is a sorry excuse for politics, let alone democracy.
> 
> There is no Left candidate. Biden is a human placeholder for the washed up 
> hollow promises of neoliberal “normalcy”, and Trump is the cartoon version of 
> a rich person with equally cartoonish ideas around governance (which isn’t to 
> belittle the vast and very concrete destructiveness he has/is enacting).
> 
> There is very little room in “the election” and mainstream discourse to 
> attend to the pressing issues bearing down on everyday life.
> 
>> On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 5:16 AM Max Herman  wrote:
>> 
>> Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?
>> 
>> I sound like a jerk to myself typing this but the silence is unexpected.
>> 
>> Are we all too afraid to say anything, or all just busy with other platforms?
>> 
>> 
>> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
>> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
>> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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>> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
>> #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
> -- 
> G. Vincent Gaulin
> 
> 211 Keese St.
> Pendleton, SC
> m. 864-247-8207
> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

Re: A question in earnest

[Vincent Gaulin]

The election is a sorry excuse for politics, let alone democracy.

There is no Left candidate. Biden is a human placeholder for the washed up
hollow promises of neoliberal “normalcy”, and Trump is the cartoon version
of a rich person with equally cartoonish ideas around governance (which
isn’t to belittle the vast and very concrete destructiveness he has/is
enacting).

There is very little room in “the election” and mainstream discourse to
attend to the pressing issues bearing down on everyday life.

On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 5:16 AM Max Herman  wrote:

>
> Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?
>
> I sound like a jerk to myself typing this but the silence is unexpected.
>
> Are we all too afraid to say anything, or all just busy with other
> platforms?
>
>
> #  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
> #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
> #  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
> #  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
> #  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
> #  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

-- 
*G. Vincent Gaulin*

211 Keese St.
Pendleton, SC
m. 864-247-8207
#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:

A question in earnest

[Max Herman]

Why is there nothing appearing here about the US election?

I sound like a jerk to myself typing this but the silence is unexpected.

Are we all too afraid to say anything, or all just busy with other platforms?


#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
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#  @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: