Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
> > The new aesthetic for the conservative base can be reasonably > well-understood as a cooptation of the alt_ or insurgent aesthetic. It > offers something like the liberating euphoria which progressives felt about > 20 years ago. Conservatives can like, tweet, dox, spam, hack, and > everything else which formerly were chiefly the playground of the other > side. The surge of dopamine delivered by these aesthetic behaviors can be > understood as a delayed version of the 1996 internet, specially branded and > targeted at those who were not part of the earlier phase and resent both > its participants and their value system. > > This is totally true for the alt_right, and the survivors of those heavily dopamined days of the 90s should know it better than anyone else (unless they're still doped out on Intel, or just stuck wherever they landed). In my case I felt this turnaround with all the bitterness of the culturally displaced, starting four years ago. You're right Max, this kind of thing always happens and one has to move on, that's the personal lesson. However, the alt-right is only a hipster suburb of ultra-conservatism, and I think its aesthetics are a detail. Just as the big mistake of the dopamine binge was to think that everyone was about to join your wild high (precarious cognitarians as the leading edge of class consciousness!), so in our day, the alt-right is just another bunch of nerds with attitude. It looks big when you stumble into one of their chat rooms, or cafés if they actually have such things (maybe in the Milwaukee suburbs?). It's not really so big though, just as the counter-globalization movement wasn't. I've moved on to different questions. Here's one of them. It turns out that on closer examination, what has really metastasized over the past 20 years is the corporate capitalist grip on the sprawling, palpitating world of religious communitarianism. This is the cancer you can see in Mitch McConnel's eyes, this is what Amy Coney Barret embodies to extremes of smug pathology, and this is the only explanation for the kinds of insanities that have come out of Donald Trump's mouth over the last few days in particular. Only people who judge their daily lives by what some pastor tells them concerning God and the Devil could possibly accept the concocted drivel of pro-life, pro-gun, leader-cult nationalism that is now served up, to overwhelming effect, by the cynical pols of the so-called evangelical movement. It's not really a movement, though, but an exactingly constructed motivational machine, by far the most dangerous political technology in the world. White supremacy, neonazism, extreme libertarianism and the alt_right are just feeder streams that swell this foaming current and give it the complexity and power to dominate a declining imperial order, which it is still doing in the US despite Joe Biden's win. I think the old liberal/progressive hegemony has been all but overwhelmed by religious nationalism. We better fight for our worlds, folks, because if not we are going to lose them all. On the left, we have always wanted to believe that the rapaciousness of monopoly capital would drive the workers and peasants to our side. "The real enemy is the Koch brothers and their dark money," we'd say, "and the rest of the confusion will disappear once that becomes clear." Now it's urgent to identify, not just the leaders and their aims, but the entire cultural/political complex that is giving the present its twisted and disheartening character. Because as conditions get worse, the veil doesn't fall. No, the religious fervor grows. Katherine Stewart has written what seems to be the best book on this stuff, and she puts the growth dynamic in a nutshell: "That’s the way inequality works. On the one hand, it creates concentrations of wealth whose beneficiaries are determined to manipulate the political process to hold on to and enhance their privileges. On the other hand, it generates a sense of instability and anxiety among broad sectors of the wider public, which is then ripe for conversion to a religion that promises authority and order." That's Karl Polanyi's double movement. The alienation of globalized capitalism grows by leaps but bounds - but the powers that emerge to stop it prove much worse than the disease they were supposed to cure. On that basis, a gang of monopoly capitalists have created a national popular religion, and right now they hold the Senate, the Supreme Court and the Presidency of the United States. These folks have global reach, and anyone who was justifiably worried about Opus Dei a few years ago, has not seen anything yet. The cosmological battle is already three-quarters won, and we hyper-educated godless anarchists from the cities have barely even noticed it was happening. To fight back, we need something a lot more powerful than another tech-driven euphoria. Without a transcendent sense of cross-racial, multigendered community to match the horrid archaisms
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
Hey Brian, welcome to the wilderness my friend. I have been yelling about this for many years, but basically talking to myself. All the knowledge in the world about surveillance capitalism, postfordism, and neoliberalism doesn’t help much (a little with concepts of alienation and its other treks into psychology) when the question is best answered by the history of religion and comparative religion. My education was certainly deficient in these topics, although I have been trying to remedy this situation. Even while I witnessed the rise of the religious right at closing decades of the last century, I never thought it to be more than a political problem. Now it’s clear that the “political problem” is much more than that as we witness religious illiberalism taking over nations all over the globe, and unfortunately, the left doesn’t have the categories to understand this at the grass roots level, let alone act against it in any reasonable manner. We do well at understanding this phenomenon in terms of power constellations at the top of the hierarchy (our traditional comfort zone), but as to the rest of it the critique seems to consist of “Why are people acting crazy?” I am the first to admit I have no systematic analysis of this “crazy,” but I do have a few scattered thoughts that I am trying to order. First, we have seen this crazy before, and have seen it for centuries. I believe what we are witnessing (particularly in the US) is a Gnostic revival. It’s just not in a form we are used to, or we wouldn’t see it as crazy at all, but just as another religious faith. The devoted are out fighting the demiurge—the experts, the deep state, scientists, and others rulers of the false real in an effort to get beyond the flawed knowledge of authority to that of deep esoteric knowledge derived from personal transcendental experience and shared in fellowship among those who know (those who have been red-pilled). Many outlets for this way of being are readily available. It’s best if it’s able to survive virtually as social media platforms will help with expanding the fellowship over vast territories and with its separation from the forces of the demiurge. Gnostic groups do not require a messiah, although it’s fine if there is one. The cult of Trump is evidence of that. But they can also be decentralized groups such as in the yoga and wellness community* where an aristocracy of influencers lead the flock, or a distributed network like Qanon, which is fundamentally leaderless. All of these groups, and we must include the Evangelicals, LDS, and conservative Catholics, are concerned most with the elimination of ignorance even more than the elimination of sin. In fact, in this century sin has become much more tolerable than ignorance. (I should note that this list of groups is very intersectional and probably should also include the virtual social justice warriors cancelling people who don’t understand the difference between sexual orientation and sexual preference. Just not woke—the left’s equivalent of the red pill.) The reason knowledge is so important is that it can function as a virtual glue to build community and a way for many members to say I may not be educated like the members of the demiurge, but I am more intelligent and better informed, but most importantly, the goal is transformation—to be a part of a constellation that gives you the power to transcend the limits of a false given. Take the red pill and emerge anew. I don’t want to play down the former two reasons for becoming a part of the Gnostic front. They are significant. For Evangelicals and other conservative Christians the breaking of the spiritual consensus in the West in the 60s was traumatic, and the erosion of a national spiritual life has continued ever since. From their perspective, Gnostic revelation could bring back the consensus. The fact that yoga and wellness can commune with evangelicals through Qanon or anti-vax seems to be an indication of this possibility from a Gnostic point of view. For the greater Trump cult, being viewed as ignorant rubes by their educational superiors (now more than ever as Trump continues to loot and grift this class) has been a source of aggravation. Gnosticism proves their greater intelligence and their superior knowledge that in turn acts as a real power lift to their pride and well-being. The elite of the Republican Party understand this desire and are taking advantage of it. In part, this is why the Republican Party is becoming the working class party in the US. We do need a new ecological aesthetic (CAE just did a book on that), and we do need a new political theology. I can’t help but think of the anti-vax motto—“You have data, but we have stories.” But none of that does any good if it is not accompanied by a massive intervention campaigns into the Gnostic networks of alternative reality. This is such a significant site in the lives of millions,
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
mbers to say I may not be educated like the members of the > demiurge, but I am more intelligent and better informed, but most > importantly, the goal is transformation—to be a part of a constellation > that gives you the power to transcend the limits of a false given. Take the > red pill and emerge anew. I don’t want to play down the former two > reasons for becoming a part of the Gnostic front. They are significant. For > Evangelicals and other conservative Christians the breaking of the > spiritual consensus in the West in the 60s was traumatic, and the erosion > of a national spiritual life has continued ever since. From their > perspective, Gnostic revelation could bring back the consensus. The fact > that yoga and wellness can commune with evangelicals through Qanon or > anti-vax seems to be an indication of this possibility from a Gnostic point > of view. For the greater Trump cult, being viewed as ignorant rubes by > their educational superiors (now more than ever as Trump continues to loot > and grift this class) has been a source of aggravation. Gnosticism proves > their greater intelligence and their superior knowledge that in turn acts > as a real power lift to their pride and well-being. The elite of the > Republican Party understand this desire and are taking advantage of it. In > part, this is why the Republican Party is becoming the working class party > in the US. > > > > We do need a new ecological aesthetic (CAE just did a book on that), and > we do need a new political theology. I can’t help but think of the anti-vax > motto—“You have data, but we have stories.” But none of that does any good > if it is not accompanied by a massive intervention campaigns into the > Gnostic networks of alternative reality. This is such a significant site in > the lives of millions, and we ignore it at our own peril. > > > > *I want to make clear that with the exceptions of Qanon and anti-vax I am > not indicting every person who participates in these various groups—only a > variable subsection is a part of the Gnostic front. Membership tends to > happen in spiritually-oriented groups since they are most of the way there > already. > > > -- > *From:* nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org > on behalf of Brian Holmes > *Sent:* Friday, December 4, 2020 8:29 PM > *To:* Max Herman; a moderated mailing list for net criticism > *Subject:* Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? > > >> The new aesthetic for the conservative base can be reasonably >> well-understood as a cooptation of the alt_ or insurgent aesthetic. It >> offers something like the liberating euphoria which progressives felt about >> 20 years ago. Conservatives can like, tweet, dox, spam, hack, and >> everything else which formerly were chiefly the playground of the other >> side. The surge of dopamine delivered by these aesthetic behaviors can be >> understood as a delayed version of the 1996 internet, specially branded and >> targeted at those who were not part of the earlier phase and resent both >> its participants and their value system. >> >> > This is totally true for the alt_right, and the survivors of those heavily > dopamined days of the 90s should know it better than anyone else (unless > they're still doped out on Intel, or just stuck wherever they landed). In > my case I felt this turnaround with all the bitterness of the culturally > displaced, starting four years ago. > > You're right Max, this kind of thing always happens and one has to move > on, that's the personal lesson. > > However, the alt-right is only a hipster suburb of ultra-conservatism, and > I think its aesthetics are a detail. Just as the big mistake of the > dopamine binge was to think that everyone was about to join your wild high > (precarious cognitarians as the leading edge of class consciousness!), so > in our day, the alt-right is just another bunch of nerds with attitude. It > looks big when you stumble into one of their chat rooms, or cafés if they > actually have such things (maybe in the Milwaukee suburbs?). It's not > really so big though, just as the counter-globalization movement wasn't. > > I've moved on to different questions. > > Here's one of them. It turns out that on closer examination, what has > really metastasized over the past 20 years is the corporate capitalist grip > on the sprawling, palpitating world of religious communitarianism. This is > the cancer you can see in Mitch McConnel's eyes, this is what Amy Coney > Barret embodies to extremes of smug pathology, and this is the only > explanation for the kinds of insanities that have come out of Donald > Trump's mouth over the last few days in
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
Hi all, Coincidentally, I just recently heard an interview with Vanity Fair writer, Jeff Sharlot, about the very topic of Gnosticism, relative to these concerns. I found it fairly convincing… https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/ancient-heresy-helps-us-understand-qanon-on-the-media Take care everyone, Ryan > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 23:23:08 + > From: "Kurtz, Steven" > To: "nettim...@kein.org" > Subject: Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? > Message-ID: <1607296989119.10...@buffalo.edu> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > Hey Brian, welcome to the wilderness my friend. I have been yelling about > this for many years, but basically talking to myself. All the knowledge in > the world about surveillance capitalism, postfordism, and neoliberalism > doesn?t help much (a little with concepts of alienation and its other treks > into psychology) when the question is best answered by the history of > religion and comparative religion. My education was certainly deficient in > these topics, although I have been trying to remedy this situation. Even > while I witnessed the rise of the religious right at closing decades of the > last century, I never thought it to be more than a political problem. Now > it?s clear that the ?political problem? is much more than that as we witness > religious illiberalism taking over nations all over the globe, and > unfortunately, the left doesn?t have the categories to understand this at the > grass roots level, let alone act against it in any reasonable manner. We do > well at understanding this phenomen > on in terms of power constellations at the top of the hierarchy (our > traditional comfort zone), but as to the rest of it the critique seems to > consist of ?Why are people acting crazy?? > > I am the first to admit I have no systematic analysis of this ?crazy,? but I > do have a few scattered thoughts that I am trying to order. First, we have > seen this crazy before, and have seen it for centuries. I believe what we are > witnessing (particularly in the US) is a Gnostic revival. It?s just not in a > form we are used to, or we wouldn?t see it as crazy at all, but just as > another religious faith. The devoted are out fighting the demiurge?the > experts, the deep state, scientists, and others rulers of the false real in > an effort to get beyond the flawed knowledge of authority to that of deep > esoteric knowledge derived from personal transcendental experience and shared > in fellowship among those who know (those who have been red-pilled). > > Many outlets for this way of being are readily available. It?s best if it?s > able to survive virtually as social media platforms will help with expanding > the fellowship over vast territories and with its separation from the forces > of the demiurge. Gnostic groups do not require a messiah, although it?s fine > if there is one. The cult of Trump is evidence of that. But they can also be > decentralized groups such as in the yoga and wellness community* where an > aristocracy of influencers lead the flock, or a distributed network like > Qanon, which is fundamentally leaderless. All of these groups, and we must > include the Evangelicals, LDS, and conservative Catholics, are concerned most > with the elimination of ignorance even more than the elimination of sin. In > fact, in this century sin has become much more tolerable than ignorance. (I > should note that this list of groups is very intersectional and probably > should also include the virtual social justice warriors cancelling people who > don?t und > erstand the difference between sexual orientation and sexual preference. Just > not woke?the left?s equivalent of the red pill.) The reason knowledge is so > important is that it can function as a virtual glue to build community and a > way for many members to say I may not be educated like the members of the > demiurge, but I am more intelligent and better informed, but most > importantly, the goal is transformation?to be a part of a constellation that > gives you the power to transcend the limits of a false given. Take the red > pill and emerge anew. I don?t want to play down the former two reasons for > becoming a part of the Gnostic front. They are significant. For Evangelicals > and other conservative Christians the breaking of the spiritual consensus in > the West in the 60s was traumatic, and the erosion of a national spiritual > life has continued ever since. From their perspective, Gnostic revelation > could bring back the consensus. The fact that yoga and wellness can commune > with evangelicals t > hrough Qanon or anti-vax seems to be an indication of this possibility from a
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
Hi Frédéric, I wish I had a simple answer to that very important question. The negatives are easy. No to censorship. I am not even sure that is possible if some business or institution actually wanted to. Censorship, to the degree it's possible, only serves to reaffirm their positions. No to the university, because universities have such a limited capacity to attract the Gnostics. Most of these folks do not go to university at all, and if they do, go to religion based universities, or stay in the more right-oriented parts of a secular university like business schools or economics departments. Like most people, they don't leave their comfort zones for places where confirmation bias and consensual validation are not readily available. My belief is we have to go to them wherever that may be, and using their rules put some different narratives out there. We need our own stories and theology to pitch. For example, this may not exist after covid but, I have suggested going to Christian summits and argue their points from the last century. The lord's work is separate from politics. Those who believe that Christ is King only function within this monarchical system (meaning no need to vote in the secular world). Character in leadership matters. Leaders should offer a moral example; those who don't should not be supported (no more Trump and most politicians for that matter). Argue for a more traditional concept of the elect (which is being horribly abused by Christian illiberals and prosperity ministries). Anything to muddy the water from the churches to the chat rooms. Only direct engagement will slow this nonsense. With even madder groups like Qanon we are only limited by our imagination. No rules exist there so we can make up whatever we can imagine, and this can all be done on-line. New theologies. New Messiahs. New conspiracies. The crazy train can be slowed or perhaps even derailed (made less dangerous). I am sure the madness cannot be eliminated, but it doesn't have to be completely out of control. As long as no one engages with it except through complaint or with secular persuasion techniques (the Al Gore power point, or data analysis) its only going to continue to spiral out of control. SK From: Frédéric Neyrat Sent: Sunday, December 6, 2020 6:58 PM To: Kurtz, Steven Cc: nettim...@kein.org Subject: Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? Dear Steven, Thanks for your analysis. I've a question about one sentence: "...if it is not accompanied by a massive intervention campaigns into the Gnostic networks of alternative reality": How, according to you, might we do that? - Do you mean, like, forbidding a certain number of communication/technological uses, i.e. using censorship? As far I understand, in the US reality - altereality? - it will be very difficult (more possible to do that in France for instance); - or intervening in participating and trying to trigger dialogues with the Gnosticists? But is it not precisely this dialogue that is impossible, I mean: it is a suppression that is at the root of what you call Gnosticism (in the way you use this term), a cleavage/Spaltung preventing a real dialogue from happening (if there was, for the e-Gnosticists, an alterity different from the monster that QAnon conjures up, then there will be no e-Gnosticism, correct?) -unless we think that the technological bêtise - to borrow from Bernard Stiegler - might be treated in the University, hence the function of education. I totally believe in education's role, but are US universities still trying to form/inform a middle class, or, said differently, are US universities able to access/speak to those who endorse the hellish religion of the anti-world? (strange religion that has replaced the Other world by a world without others). My best, Frédéric Neyrat __ On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 5:24 PM Kurtz, Steven mailto:sjku...@buffalo.edu>> wrote: Hey Brian, welcome to the wilderness my friend. I have been yelling about this for many years, but basically talking to myself. All the knowledge in the world about surveillance capitalism, postfordism, and neoliberalism doesn’t help much (a little with concepts of alienation and its other treks into psychology) when the question is best answered by the history of religion and comparative religion. My education was certainly deficient in these topics, although I have been trying to remedy this situation. Even while I witnessed the rise of the religious right at closing decades of the last century, I never thought it to be more than a political problem. Now it’s clear that the “political problem” is much more than that as we witness religious illiberalism taking over nations all over the globe, and unfortunately, the left doesn’t have the categories to understand this at the grass roots
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
thanks! the conclusion differs from SK's one: "JEFF SHARLET I don't think they can. I almost think they shouldn't try. This is one of those things, the harder you push against it, the stronger it's going to become. I think we need to just keep on speaking clearly, transparently, plainly, showing the sources of data, laying it out and not trying to argue with a conspiracy. You can't win that argument. There's no point in which the believers are going to say, oh, now I see. BOB GARFIELD I think we should try and do the real work of democracy and build something beautiful democracy we haven't yet had maybe and let them join if they want. But we don't counter evangelism with our own evangelism. So, if one imagines a counter-evangelism though (and not just "data" and "transparency" vs darkness), the problem is that a religion cannot just be conjured up *ex nihilo *(can it be?). Maybe we need to return to something Kant thought: reason (not understanding/data etc) as having the capacity to create its own horizon, its own aims. A horizon of beauty and justice and truth. Truth is not a datum, it's its destruction (old Lacano-Badian-Hegelian distinction between knowledge/object and truth/subject). I would say: how can we create situations in which truth, as a subjective experience, might occur? Brian says: the Messiah. Precisely what cannot be anticipated, imagined, embodied before the fact. Anti-religious in a way - or it's like faith against belief; Qanon is full of belief but deprived of faith, that is to say the confidence in an absence, the confidence based on this-Other-who-does-not-exist. DT & co are the obscenity of that which refuses the absence, the obscenity of a rejection/denial of the lack - never concede, never concede that there is a lack, never concede the genocide of natives, never concede finitude, etc.). A Messianic experience is an experience of truth. But it cannot lead to a church. What would be a Messianic experience for the mass? No idea. A Messianic New Deal? Or a revolution. But which one? FN _ On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 7:46 PM Ryan Griffis wrote: > Hi all, > > Coincidentally, I just recently heard an interview with Vanity Fair > writer, Jeff Sharlot, about the very topic of Gnosticism, relative to these > concerns. I found it fairly convincing… > > > https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/ancient-heresy-helps-us-understand-qanon-on-the-media > > Take care everyone, > Ryan > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 23:23:08 + > > From: "Kurtz, Steven" > > To: "nettim...@kein.org" > > Subject: Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? > > Message-ID: <1607296989119.10...@buffalo.edu> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" > > > > Hey Brian, welcome to the wilderness my friend. I have been yelling > about this for many years, but basically talking to myself. All the > knowledge in the world about surveillance capitalism, postfordism, and > neoliberalism doesn?t help much (a little with concepts of alienation and > its other treks into psychology) when the question is best answered by the > history of religion and comparative religion. My education was certainly > deficient in these topics, although I have been trying to remedy this > situation. Even while I witnessed the rise of the religious right at > closing decades of the last century, I never thought it to be more than a > political problem. Now it?s clear that the ?political problem? is much more > than that as we witness religious illiberalism taking over nations all over > the globe, and unfortunately, the left doesn?t have the categories to > understand this at the grass roots level, let alone act against it in any > reasonable manner. We do well at understanding this phenomen > > on in terms of power constellations at the top of the hierarchy (our > traditional comfort zone), but as to the rest of it the critique seems to > consist of ?Why are people acting crazy?? > > > > I am the first to admit I have no systematic analysis of this ?crazy,? > but I do have a few scattered thoughts that I am trying to order. First, we > have seen this crazy before, and have seen it for centuries. I believe what > we are witnessing (particularly in the US) is a Gnostic revival. It?s just > not in a form we are used to, or we wouldn?t see it as crazy at all, but > just as another religious faith. The devoted are out fighting the > demiurge?the experts, the deep state, scientists, and others rulers of the > false real in an effort to get beyond the flawed knowledge of authority to > that of deep esoteric knowledge derived from personal transcendental > experience a
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
Thanks - I would not repeat what I tried to think in my other email (just sent) but basically my idea is: first, let's shape our own horizon. It will serve as an attractor. Maybe not a theological one, but a cosmological one. Best FN __ On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 7:47 PM Kurtz, Steven wrote: > Hi Frédéric, > > > I wish I had a simple answer to that very important question. The > negatives are easy. No to censorship. I am not even sure that is possible > if some business or institution actually wanted to. Censorship, to the > degree it's possible, only serves to reaffirm their positions. No to the > university, because universities have such a limited capacity to attract > the Gnostics. Most of these folks do not go to university at all, and if > they do, go to religion based universities, or stay in the more > right-oriented parts of a secular university like business schools or > economics departments. Like most people, they don't leave their comfort > zones for places where confirmation bias and consensual validation are not > readily available. > > > My belief is we have to go to them wherever that may be, and using their > rules put some different narratives out there. We need our own stories and > theology to pitch. For example, this may not exist after covid but, I have > suggested going to Christian summits and argue their points from the last > century. The lord's work is separate from politics. Those who believe that > Christ is King only function within this monarchical system (meaning no > need to vote in the secular world). Character in leadership > matters. Leaders should offer a moral example; those who don't should not > be supported (no more Trump and most politicians for that matter). Argue > for a more traditional concept of the elect (which is being horribly > abused by Christian illiberals and prosperity ministries). Anything to > muddy the water from the churches to the chat rooms. Only direct > engagement will slow this nonsense. > > > With even madder groups like Qanon we are only limited by our imagination. > No rules exist there so we can make up whatever we can imagine, and this > can all be done on-line. New theologies. New Messiahs. New conspiracies. > The crazy train can be slowed or perhaps even derailed (made less > dangerous). I am sure the madness cannot be eliminated, but it doesn't have > to be completely out of control. As long as no one engages with it except > through complaint or with secular persuasion techniques (the Al Gore > power point, or data analysis) its only going to continue to spiral out of > control. SK > ------------------ > *From:* Frédéric Neyrat > *Sent:* Sunday, December 6, 2020 6:58 PM > *To:* Kurtz, Steven > *Cc:* nettim...@kein.org > *Subject:* Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? > > Dear Steven, > > Thanks for your analysis. I've a question about one sentence: > > "...if it is not accompanied by a massive intervention campaigns into the > Gnostic networks of alternative reality": > > How, according to you, might we do that? > > - Do you mean, like, forbidding a certain number of > communication/technological uses, i.e. using censorship? As far I > understand, in the US reality - altereality? - it will be very difficult > (more possible to do that in France for instance); > > - or intervening in participating and trying to trigger dialogues with the > Gnosticists? But is it not precisely this dialogue that is impossible, I > mean: it is a suppression that is at the root of what you call Gnosticism > (in the way you use this term), a cleavage/Spaltung preventing a real > dialogue from happening (if there was, for the e-Gnosticists, an alterity > different from the monster that QAnon conjures up, then there will be no > e-Gnosticism, correct?) > > -unless we think that the technological *bêtise* - to borrow from Bernard > Stiegler - might be treated in the University, hence the function of > education. I totally believe in education's role, but are US universities > still trying to form/inform a middle class, or, said differently, are US > universities able to access/speak to those who endorse the hellish religion > of the anti-world? (strange religion that has replaced the Other world by a > world without others). > > My best, > > Frédéric Neyrat > > __ > > > > On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 5:24 PM Kurtz, Steven wrote: > >> Hey Brian, welcome to the wilderness my friend. I have been yelling about >> this for many years, but basically talking to myself. All the knowledge in >> the world about surveillance capitalism, p
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
e who can see a further star will find the courage and energy to fight against the bitter realities that are staring them in their face. It's true that the Christian right can be subverted in many different ways, as Steve suggests, and it would be urgent for the government itself - acting through the media, the educational institutions, the police etc - to carry out this subversion. Such battles between Church and State were fought out in France for over a century, and it is well known that Durkheim advised the transformation of the Republic into a kind of secular religion (which was done - go check out the Pantheon in the 5th arrondissement for instance). Durkheim and his contemporaries saw that you could not simply dismantle the old gods - you have to raise new ones in their place. It's very clear that we need to pull down all the Columbus statues, and create new ones in which the most advanced scientific ideas about symbiosis and biogeochemical cycles are but graven ornaments for tellurian deities. OK, most of you surely think I've gone off the deep end. You don't come from Australia or California, where the Pyrocene has already begun. You haven't yet seen - or indeed, experienced - what the damaged Goddess is getting ready to do to us. You don't yet realize the vulnerability of the capitalist world, the elite world, your world. You have not sought new knowledge. You think the system works. You're sitting ducks. > I don’t want to play down the former two reasons for becoming a part of > the Gnostic front. They are significant. For Evangelicals and other > conservative Christians the breaking of the spiritual consensus in the West > in the 60s was traumatic, and the erosion of a national spiritual life has > continued ever since. From their perspective, Gnostic revelation could > bring back the consensus. The fact that yoga and wellness can commune with > evangelicals through Qanon or anti-vax seems to be an indication of this > possibility from a Gnostic point of view. For the greater Trump cult, being > viewed as ignorant rubes by their educational superiors (now more than ever > as Trump continues to loot and grift this class) has been a source of > aggravation. Gnosticism proves their greater intelligence and their > superior knowledge that in turn acts as a real power lift to their pride > and well-being. The elite of the Republican Party understand this desire > and are taking advantage of it. In part, this is why the Republican Party > is becoming the working class party in the US. > > > > We do need a new ecological aesthetic (CAE just did a book on that), and > we do need a new political theology. I can’t help but think of the anti-vax > motto—“You have data, but we have stories.” But none of that does any good > if it is not accompanied by a massive intervention campaigns into the > Gnostic networks of alternative reality. This is such a significant site in > the lives of millions, and we ignore it at our own peril. > > > > *I want to make clear that with the exceptions of Qanon and anti-vax I am > not indicting every person who participates in these various groups—only a > variable subsection is a part of the Gnostic front. Membership tends to > happen in spiritually-oriented groups since they are most of the way there > already. > > > ------ > *From:* nettime-l-boun...@mail.kein.org > on behalf of Brian Holmes > *Sent:* Friday, December 4, 2020 8:29 PM > *To:* Max Herman; a moderated mailing list for net criticism > *Subject:* Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? > > >> The new aesthetic for the conservative base can be reasonably >> well-understood as a cooptation of the alt_ or insurgent aesthetic. It >> offers something like the liberating euphoria which progressives felt about >> 20 years ago. Conservatives can like, tweet, dox, spam, hack, and >> everything else which formerly were chiefly the playground of the other >> side. The surge of dopamine delivered by these aesthetic behaviors can be >> understood as a delayed version of the 1996 internet, specially branded and >> targeted at those who were not part of the earlier phase and resent both >> its participants and their value system. >> >> > This is totally true for the alt_right, and the survivors of those heavily > dopamined days of the 90s should know it better than anyone else (unless > they're still doped out on Intel, or just stuck wherever they landed). In > my case I felt this turnaround with all the bitterness of the culturally > displaced, starting four years ago. > > You're right Max, this kind of thing always happens and one has to move > on, that's the personal lesson. > > However, the alt-right is only a hipst
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
; >> >> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 7:46 PM Ryan Griffis >> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Coincidentally, I just recently heard an interview with Vanity Fair >>> writer, Jeff Sharlot, about the very topic of Gnosticism, relative to these >>> concerns. I found it fairly convincing… >>> >>> >>> https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/ancient-heresy-helps-us-understand-qanon-on-the-media >>> >>> Take care everyone, >>> Ryan >>> >>> > Message: 1 >>> > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 23:23:08 + >>> > From: "Kurtz, Steven" >>> > To: "nettim...@kein.org" >>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? >>> > Message-ID: <1607296989119.10...@buffalo.edu> >>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >>> > >>> > Hey Brian, welcome to the wilderness my friend. I have been yelling >>> about this for many years, but basically talking to myself. All the >>> knowledge in the world about surveillance capitalism, postfordism, and >>> neoliberalism doesn?t help much (a little with concepts of alienation and >>> its other treks into psychology) when the question is best answered by the >>> history of religion and comparative religion. My education was certainly >>> deficient in these topics, although I have been trying to remedy this >>> situation. Even while I witnessed the rise of the religious right at >>> closing decades of the last century, I never thought it to be more than a >>> political problem. Now it?s clear that the ?political problem? is much more >>> than that as we witness religious illiberalism taking over nations all over >>> the globe, and unfortunately, the left doesn?t have the categories to >>> understand this at the grass roots level, let alone act against it in any >>> reasonable manner. We do well at understanding this phenomen >>> > on in terms of power constellations at the top of the hierarchy (our >>> traditional comfort zone), but as to the rest of it the critique seems to >>> consist of ?Why are people acting crazy?? >>> > >>> > I am the first to admit I have no systematic analysis of this ?crazy,? >>> but I do have a few scattered thoughts that I am trying to order. First, we >>> have seen this crazy before, and have seen it for centuries. I believe what >>> we are witnessing (particularly in the US) is a Gnostic revival. It?s just >>> not in a form we are used to, or we wouldn?t see it as crazy at all, but >>> just as another religious faith. The devoted are out fighting the >>> demiurge?the experts, the deep state, scientists, and others rulers of the >>> false real in an effort to get beyond the flawed knowledge of authority to >>> that of deep esoteric knowledge derived from personal transcendental >>> experience and shared in fellowship among those who know (those who have >>> been red-pilled). >>> > >>> > Many outlets for this way of being are readily available. It?s best if >>> it?s able to survive virtually as social media platforms will help with >>> expanding the fellowship over vast territories and with its separation from >>> the forces of the demiurge. Gnostic groups do not require a messiah, >>> although it?s fine if there is one. The cult of Trump is evidence of that. >>> But they can also be decentralized groups such as in the yoga and wellness >>> community* where an aristocracy of influencers lead the flock, or a >>> distributed network like Qanon, which is fundamentally leaderless. All of >>> these groups, and we must include the Evangelicals, LDS, and conservative >>> Catholics, are concerned most with the elimination of ignorance even more >>> than the elimination of sin. In fact, in this century sin has become much >>> more tolerable than ignorance. (I should note that this list of groups is >>> very intersectional and probably should also include the virtual social >>> justice warriors cancelling people who don?t und >>> > erstand the difference between sexual orientation and sexual >>> preference. Just not woke?the left?s equivalent of the red pill.) The >>> reason knowledge is so important is that it can function as a virtual glue >>> to build community and a way for many members to say I may not be educated >>> like the members of the demiurge, but I am more intelligent and better >>> informed, but most importantly,
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_?
e its own horizon, its own aims. A horizon of beauty and >>> justice and truth. >>> >>> Truth is not a datum, it's its destruction (old Lacano-Badian-Hegelian >>> distinction between knowledge/object and truth/subject). I would say: how >>> can we create situations in which truth, as a subjective experience, might >>> occur? >>> >>> Brian says: the Messiah. Precisely what cannot be anticipated, imagined, >>> embodied before the fact. Anti-religious in a way - or it's like faith >>> against belief; Qanon is full of belief but deprived of faith, that is to >>> say the confidence in an absence, the confidence based on >>> this-Other-who-does-not-exist. DT & co are the obscenity of that which >>> refuses the absence, the obscenity of a rejection/denial of the lack - >>> never concede, never concede that there is a lack, never concede the >>> genocide of natives, never concede finitude, etc.). A Messianic experience >>> is an experience of truth. But it cannot lead to a church. >>> >>> What would be a Messianic experience for the mass? No idea. A Messianic >>> New Deal? Or a revolution. But which one? >>> >>> FN >>> >>> >>> _ >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 6, 2020 at 7:46 PM Ryan Griffis >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Coincidentally, I just recently heard an interview with Vanity Fair >>>> writer, Jeff Sharlot, about the very topic of Gnosticism, relative to these >>>> concerns. I found it fairly convincing… >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/otm/segments/ancient-heresy-helps-us-understand-qanon-on-the-media >>>> >>>> Take care everyone, >>>> Ryan >>>> >>>> > Message: 1 >>>> > Date: Sun, 6 Dec 2020 23:23:08 + >>>> > From: "Kurtz, Steven" >>>> > To: "nettim...@kein.org" >>>> > Subject: Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? >>>> > Message-ID: <1607296989119.10...@buffalo.edu> >>>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" >>>> > >>>> > Hey Brian, welcome to the wilderness my friend. I have been yelling >>>> about this for many years, but basically talking to myself. All the >>>> knowledge in the world about surveillance capitalism, postfordism, and >>>> neoliberalism doesn?t help much (a little with concepts of alienation and >>>> its other treks into psychology) when the question is best answered by the >>>> history of religion and comparative religion. My education was certainly >>>> deficient in these topics, although I have been trying to remedy this >>>> situation. Even while I witnessed the rise of the religious right at >>>> closing decades of the last century, I never thought it to be more than a >>>> political problem. Now it?s clear that the ?political problem? is much more >>>> than that as we witness religious illiberalism taking over nations all over >>>> the globe, and unfortunately, the left doesn?t have the categories to >>>> understand this at the grass roots level, let alone act against it in any >>>> reasonable manner. We do well at understanding this phenomen >>>> > on in terms of power constellations at the top of the hierarchy (our >>>> traditional comfort zone), but as to the rest of it the critique seems to >>>> consist of ?Why are people acting crazy?? >>>> > >>>> > I am the first to admit I have no systematic analysis of this >>>> ?crazy,? but I do have a few scattered thoughts that I am trying to order. >>>> First, we have seen this crazy before, and have seen it for centuries. I >>>> believe what we are witnessing (particularly in the US) is a Gnostic >>>> revival. It?s just not in a form we are used to, or we wouldn?t see it as >>>> crazy at all, but just as another religious faith. The devoted are out >>>> fighting the demiurge?the experts, the deep state, scientists, and others >>>> rulers of the false real in an effort to get beyond the flawed knowledge of >>>> authority to that of deep esoteric knowledge derived from personal >>>> transcendental experience and shared in fellowship among those who know >>>> (those who have been red-pilled). >>>> > >>>> > Ma
Re: Fw: Has the right gone full Alt_? (Ryan Griffis)
Magical thinking has probably always surged in times of crisis, probably more extravagantly in cultures with dominant metaphysical and eschatological doctrines. So though the (positive/wishful thinking) volitionist Q-Anon twist on latterday Gnosticsm may seem peculiar, is it really that far a cry from the widespread Rapturist evangelicalism and miraculism underpinning the growing support for theocracy in the US and other places? Michael Gregory - www.michaelgregory.org - www.reddragonflypress.org/2020-titles/pound-laundry # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
