Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
Alexander Sack wrote: Maybe you have something configured in /etc/network/interfaces? I think there was a report that keyfile connections are not considered if there is anything configured in ifupdown. Sure I have. Some things need to be done without graphical desktops and without trouble with interchanging between gnome and kde. How would one update or repair a system that does not start X for any reason? I try to deal with eth0 over /etc/network/interfaces on some machines, while using network manager for other connections such as UMTS mobile phones as a fallback, or VPN connections. Nevertheless, In my eyes it is inacceptable to choose such a black-box-design for a tool that's so vitally important as a network configuration. If it is just guessing and maybe try this, maybe try that, and no way to do proper and systematic debugging, and if network manager depends on so many other systems like notification, gnome or kde storage and other things that nobody can survey, then this is bad design. If you don't even know what it is doing and why, and what's going on. Sorry to say that, but network manager's design is pure bullshit. (And btw. it absolutely does not fit into the debian/ubuntu environment. Some time ago I issued a list of bugs/problems to the bug tracker, but the main author simply did not understand why some things need to be done and e.g. why four instead of just two configuration phases (pre-/post up and pre/post down) are needed for proper network management. It is obvious that network manager was designed by desktop people writing just another graphical toy deeply interweaved with all that complex desktop APIs, but without administration and network experience. My advice is to throw it away and completely rewrite from scratch. At least for debian and ubuntu. network manager is really lousy software. regards Hadmut ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
Hadmut Danisch a écrit : Alexander Sack wrote: Maybe you have something configured in /etc/network/interfaces? I think there was a report that keyfile connections are not considered if there is anything configured in ifupdown. Sure I have. Some things need to be done without graphical desktops and without trouble with interchanging between gnome and kde. How would one update or repair a system that does not start X for any reason? NetworkManager's system connections do NOT depend on X. My advice is to throw it away and completely rewrite from scratch. I had some problems with NetworkManager myself, so I am looking forward to your rewrite. Please keep us posted on your progress, thanks! ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 09:49:45AM +0200, Hadmut Danisch wrote: Alexander Sack wrote: Maybe you have something configured in /etc/network/interfaces? I think there was a report that keyfile connections are not considered if there is anything configured in ifupdown. Sure I have. Some things need to be done without graphical desktops and without trouble with interchanging between gnome and kde. How would one update or repair a system that does not start X for any reason? I try to deal with eth0 over /etc/network/interfaces on some machines, while using network manager for other connections such as UMTS mobile phones as a fallback, or VPN connections. Pleaes contribute proactively and confirm that removing stuff from there fixes the keyfile for you. Otherwise you waste everyones time here. Sorry to say that, but network manager's design is pure bullshit. It is ok to express your opinion, but it does not belong in this thread for sure. - Alexander ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
Alexander Sack wrote: Pleaes contribute proactively and confirm that removing stuff from there fixes the keyfile for you. Otherwise you waste everyones time here. Removing stuff from /etc/network/interfaces was the first step I tried for debugging. Currently my /e/n/i contains auto lo eth0 iface lo inet loopback ... iface eth0 inet static ... and nothing else. The problems I have with network-manager on that machine are related to an GSM device (UMTS mobile phone connected through USB cable). I also tried removing anything but the lo configuration, and it did not fix the problem. 1. I do not see how an /e/n/i containing configs for lo and eth0 could cause nm's trouble with gsm or other connections. 2. Even if so, nm should behave similar for configurations put in the user's individual desktop settings or in the system wide settings. The problem occurs with the system wide setting only. 3. Even if my configuration was wrong in any way and would make using GSM connections unusable with nm, then nm should not offer me the configuration assistant for the mobile phone at login time if a system wide configuration already exists. 4. I, btw., cannot understand why killing nm-system-settings causes nm to take down eth0 even if eth0 is not managed by nm but by /e/n/i. How can nm be configured to deal with particular types of interfaces only (e.g. GSM, VPN) and keep it's fingers from eth0? This boils down to the problem, that the nm-system-settings manager for whatever reason does not find its configuration. Even if my /e/n/i was wrong or incompatible, nm should behave consistantly and issue any usefull warning or debugging messages. It is ok to express your opinion, but it does not belong in this thread for sure. What would be the appropriate thread to express that nm suffers from severe mis-design? I do not believe that it was a good idea to use nm as a standard software tool in ubuntu. regards Hadmut ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Hadmut Danisch had...@danisch.de wrote: Alexander Sack wrote: Pleaes contribute proactively and confirm that removing stuff from there fixes the keyfile for you. Otherwise you waste everyones time here. Removing stuff from /etc/network/interfaces was the first step I tried for debugging. Currently my /e/n/i contains auto lo eth0 iface lo inet loopback ... iface eth0 inet static ... and nothing else. The problems I have with network-manager on that machine are related to an GSM device (UMTS mobile phone connected through USB cable). I also tried removing anything but the lo configuration, and it did not fix the problem. 1. I do not see how an /e/n/i containing configs for lo and eth0 could cause nm's trouble with gsm or other connections. 2. Even if so, nm should behave similar for configurations put in the user's individual desktop settings or in the system wide settings. The problem occurs with the system wide setting only. 3. Even if my configuration was wrong in any way and would make using GSM connections unusable with nm, then nm should not offer me the configuration assistant for the mobile phone at login time if a system wide configuration already exists. 4. I, btw., cannot understand why killing nm-system-settings causes nm to take down eth0 even if eth0 is not managed by nm but by /e/n/i. How can nm be configured to deal with particular types of interfaces only (e.g. GSM, VPN) and keep it's fingers from eth0? This boils down to the problem, that the nm-system-settings manager for whatever reason does not find its configuration. Even if my /e/n/i was wrong or incompatible, nm should behave consistantly and issue any usefull warning or debugging messages. It is ok to express your opinion, but it does not belong in this thread for sure. What would be the appropriate thread to express that nm suffers from severe mis-design? I do not believe that it was a good idea to use nm as a standard software tool in ubuntu. This is not a Ubuntu mailing-list. Go troll here http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=527365. regards Hadmut ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
On Fri, 31 Jul 2009 23:19:37 +0200 Hadmut Danisch had...@danisch.de wrote: I do not believe that it was a good idea to use nm as a standard software tool in ubuntu. Works perfectly fine in Fedora -- Brian Morrison bdm at fenrir dot org dot uk Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in the mud; after a while you realize you are muddy and the pig is enjoying it. GnuPG key ID DE32E5C5 - http://wwwkeys.uk.pgp.net/pgpnet/wwwkeys.html ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
John Mahoney wrote: This is not a Ubuntu mailing-list. It was a direct reply to someone with an ubuntu.com mail address. Go troll here Insulting people who report and describe bugs and problems is exactly that type of ignorance that leads to such problematic software. ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 6:38 PM, Hadmut Danisch had...@danisch.de wrote: John Mahoney wrote: This is not a Ubuntu mailing-list. Sorry I did not realize. Still, this is not a Ubuntu specific mail-list. It was a direct reply to someone with an ubuntu.com mail address. Go troll here Insulting people who report and describe bugs and problems is exactly that type of ignorance that leads to such problematic software. I believe if you reported *bugs and problems* in a more gracious fashion you may get better results.The link was how to remove Network Manager in Ubuntu. I have no involvement in the creation of Network Manager, which happens to work great for me on Ubuntu. I will not comment further on this thread. ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections (maybe found the reason)
I just got a little further with the problem and might have found a reason: I was wondering why the function get_connections() in the keyfile plugin was never called. I put some debugging code in the load_connections() function in system-settings/src/dbus-settings.c It shows: load_connections() is called several times. It's call for the first time, and the Ifupdown plugin gets called and initalized, and its get_connections() called. Then, later, load_connections() is called again, but does terminate due to this code: if (priv-connections_loaded) return; And then, after that, the keyfile plugin is loaded. But then, because of this code, load_connections does not call get_connections anymore. Thus, get_connections of the keyfile plugin is never called. regards ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Network Manager does not find system wide connections
Brian Morrison wrote: I do not believe that it was a good idea to use nm as a standard software tool in ubuntu. Works perfectly fine in Fedora You should say, It works fine for ME in Fedora. It is obvious from the Fedora newsgroups that many people have serious problems with NM. I don't, personally, but I find the complete lack of documentation a major drawback with NM. The whole point of Linux is that it is not magic; you are meant to be able to work out what is going on. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail: gayleard /at/ eircom.net tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
