Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
As soon as the list has been archived (today, tomorrow) when a new email is sent to the old list it'll bounce back, yes, we can add an alias to the new location although I'm not a particular fan of landing aliases between lists living on different infrastructures as it gives the idea the list has never been retired and it's still alive although that is not true and that can confuse participants in the long run. It's important wiki pages and other references are updated to reflect this particular migration and former members are invited (which you did already) to participate on the new list. On Wed, Nov 2, 2022 at 11:15 AM Thomas Haller wrote: > On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 23:16 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > Hi Andrea, > > > It is done: > > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2022-November/msg0.html > > I think the old list can be shut down. What will happen when sending an > email to the old list? Will a bounce message be sent back? Can it link > to the new place? > > > > > We can provide you the subscribers list if the decision you want to > > pursue is subscribing existing list members on the new hosting > > platform. > > the list admin can see the subscribers at > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/roster/networkmanager-list > That was all that's needed. Invitations are sent. > > > > Thomas > > -- Cheers, Andrea Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat, GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator, Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 23:16 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: Hi Andrea, It is done: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/networkmanager-list/2022-November/msg0.html I think the old list can be shut down. What will happen when sending an email to the old list? Will a bounce message be sent back? Can it link to the new place? > We can provide you the subscribers list if the decision you want to > pursue is subscribing existing list members on the new hosting > platform. the list admin can see the subscribers at https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/roster/networkmanager-list That was all that's needed. Invitations are sent. Thomas ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
Paul, that's surely something we could have done better there including sending the per-list announcements earlier, in either case if a specific list requires 2-3 more weeks to sort things out, that's fine, we're currently waiting for a set of code changes in damned-lies and are accepting any exceptions in case the migration to Discourse or to a different hosting is still in the works. Thanks, On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 4:47 PM Paul Smith wrote: > On Thu, 2022-10-27 at 11:49 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > The migration to Discourse has been in the discussion for years [1], > > further actions were also communicated in August/September [2] and > > [3]. Either way thanks for your feedback, we'll try to improve the > > process next time anything like this happens. > > As has been stated before, I don't understand how anyone considered it > sufficient to announce this ONLY on the desktop-devel list. > > There are thousands of people subscribed to individual lists for > individual applications that have no interest in subscribing to a > general list like "desktop-devel", but whose existing lists are still > being shut down. > > It's clear, since an announcement was made last week that did it, that > sending an email to all the lists was possible. I don't understand why > it wasn't done back when the decision was made. > > -- Cheers, Andrea Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat, GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator, Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Thu, 2022-10-27 at 11:49 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > The migration to Discourse has been in the discussion for years [1], > further actions were also communicated in August/September [2] and > [3]. Either way thanks for your feedback, we'll try to improve the > process next time anything like this happens. As has been stated before, I don't understand how anyone considered it sufficient to announce this ONLY on the desktop-devel list. There are thousands of people subscribed to individual lists for individual applications that have no interest in subscribing to a general list like "desktop-devel", but whose existing lists are still being shut down. It's clear, since an announcement was made last week that did it, that sending an email to all the lists was possible. I don't understand why it wasn't done back when the decision was made. ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Thu, 2022-10-27 at 11:49 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > The migration to Discourse has been in the discussion for years [1], > further actions were also communicated in August/September [2] and > [3]. Either way thanks for your feedback, we'll try to improve the > process next time anything like this happens. Indeed. Once being aware of the discussions, they are easy to find. Apparently that many people were still surprised. At least, I was. > List archives are mainly composed of HTML files, I don't foresee any > particular reason on why the history of 20+ years of mails stored in > a mail archive would be shut down in the future, please don't worry > about that. Thanks, thats good to know. Your wording at ([1]) > That’s correct, all the lists listed in there will be turned into > RO mode, list archives will remain around for the time being. made me unsure. [1] https://discourse.gnome.org/t/common-questions-re-mailman-to-discourse/11841 Thomas ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 23:16:44 +0200 Andrea Veri wrote: > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 9:29 PM Thomas Haller > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a > > mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already > > modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. > > Our git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. > > > > That's unfortunate to hear, would you mind elaborating more on what > made you decide not to migrate to Discourse? > You mean other than it being a forum where we have to go to it rather than a mailing list where it comes to us? I don't see how to bridge this chasm. -- Brian Morrison ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:56 AM Thomas Haller wrote: > On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 23:16 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 9:29 PM Thomas Haller > > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a > > > mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already > > > modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. > > > Our > > > git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. > > > > > > > > > That's unfortunate to hear, would you mind elaborating more on what > > made you decide not to migrate to Discourse? > > Just personal preference (of myself and others). > > While I wish that mailman would have some improvements, overall it's > suitable for our needs. It served us well. I probably just don't know > what I am missing out, but I still don't see it. > > NetworkManager historically is both a GNOME and a freedesktop project > (we use gitlab.freedesktop.org, while applet and VPN plugins are on > gitlab.gnome.org). Having a freedesktop mailing list would fit the > project too. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't know where else to > migrate and would stronger consider discourse. > > > On a side note, it's not a big problem... But I don't understand the > urgency of sending an announcment and shutting the list down > (basically) immediately afterwards. A longer grace period would have > been better. I was ignorant of these plans. That ignorance is my fault, > but a simple email to the list would have helped. > The migration to Discourse has been in the discussion for years [1], further actions were also communicated in August/September [2] and [3]. Either way thanks for your feedback, we'll try to improve the process next time anything like this happens. > > > > > It's also unclear whether we should try to automatically subscribe > > > the > > > current list subscribers to the new place. I think we should do > > > that. > > > > > > Opinions? > > > > > > > > > We can provide you the subscribers list if the decision you want to > > pursue is subscribing existing list members on the new hosting > > platform. > > that would be great. Thank you. I probably will come back to you about > this. > > As GNOME plans to leave the archive up as read-only, that's sufficient. > But I am worried that on a few years that will be shut down and the > history lost. If that ever happens, we should try to archive the > history somewhere. Would it be possible to get a dump of the entire > archive? > List archives are mainly composed of HTML files, I don't foresee any particular reason on why the history of 20+ years of mails stored in a mail archive would be shut down in the future, please don't worry about that. [1] https://discourse.gnome.org/t/common-questions-re-mailman-to-discourse/11841/9 [2] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-August/msg4.html [3] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html -- Cheers, Andrea Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat, GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator, Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 23:15 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 9:10 PM Martin wrote: > > > You actually go to https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/networkmanager, > right top corner where the ring bell is, then click on the > notification preference you want there :) yes, that's nice. I susbscribed. IMO it doesn't conflict to both have discussions on discourse and having a mailman mailing list. Thomas ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
Hey! Great too know, can you subscribe me to the new list, when its created and moved? On Thu, Oct 27, 2022 at 8:56 AM Thomas Haller via networkmanager-list wrote: > > On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 23:16 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 9:29 PM Thomas Haller > > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a > > > mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already > > > modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. > > > Our > > > git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. > > > > > > > > > That's unfortunate to hear, would you mind elaborating more on what > > made you decide not to migrate to Discourse? > > Just personal preference (of myself and others). > > While I wish that mailman would have some improvements, overall it's > suitable for our needs. It served us well. I probably just don't know > what I am missing out, but I still don't see it. > > NetworkManager historically is both a GNOME and a freedesktop project > (we use gitlab.freedesktop.org, while applet and VPN plugins are on > gitlab.gnome.org). Having a freedesktop mailing list would fit the > project too. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't know where else to > migrate and would stronger consider discourse. > > > On a side note, it's not a big problem... But I don't understand the > urgency of sending an announcment and shutting the list down > (basically) immediately afterwards. A longer grace period would have > been better. I was ignorant of these plans. That ignorance is my fault, > but a simple email to the list would have helped. > > > > > > It's also unclear whether we should try to automatically subscribe > > > the > > > current list subscribers to the new place. I think we should do > > > that. > > > > > > Opinions? > > > > > > > > > We can provide you the subscribers list if the decision you want to > > pursue is subscribing existing list members on the new hosting > > platform. > > that would be great. Thank you. I probably will come back to you about > this. > > As GNOME plans to leave the archive up as read-only, that's sufficient. > But I am worried that on a few years that will be shut down and the > history lost. If that ever happens, we should try to archive the > history somewhere. Would it be possible to get a dump of the entire > archive? > > > > Thomas > > ___ > networkmanager-list mailing list > networkmanager-list@gnome.org > https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, 2022-10-26 at 23:16 +0200, Andrea Veri wrote: > On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 9:29 PM Thomas Haller > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a > > mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already > > modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. > > Our > > git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. > > > > > That's unfortunate to hear, would you mind elaborating more on what > made you decide not to migrate to Discourse? Just personal preference (of myself and others). While I wish that mailman would have some improvements, overall it's suitable for our needs. It served us well. I probably just don't know what I am missing out, but I still don't see it. NetworkManager historically is both a GNOME and a freedesktop project (we use gitlab.freedesktop.org, while applet and VPN plugins are on gitlab.gnome.org). Having a freedesktop mailing list would fit the project too. If it weren't for that, I wouldn't know where else to migrate and would stronger consider discourse. On a side note, it's not a big problem... But I don't understand the urgency of sending an announcment and shutting the list down (basically) immediately afterwards. A longer grace period would have been better. I was ignorant of these plans. That ignorance is my fault, but a simple email to the list would have helped. > > > It's also unclear whether we should try to automatically subscribe > > the > > current list subscribers to the new place. I think we should do > > that. > > > > Opinions? > > > > > We can provide you the subscribers list if the decision you want to > pursue is subscribing existing list members on the new hosting > platform. that would be great. Thank you. I probably will come back to you about this. As GNOME plans to leave the archive up as read-only, that's sufficient. But I am worried that on a few years that will be shut down and the history lost. If that ever happens, we should try to archive the history somewhere. Would it be possible to get a dump of the entire archive? Thomas ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On 26/10/2022 22.45, Greg Oliver via networkmanager-list wrote: On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:29 PM Thomas Haller via networkmanager-list wrote: Hi, I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. Our git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. It's also unclear whether we should try to automatically subscribe the current list subscribers to the new place. I think we should do that. Opinions? A big "Thank You" to the GNOME community for having our list there for so long, 18 years. The service is (was) very appreciated. Thomas Yes - just FYI - I am on another Gnome hosted list "Evolution" that is trying to figure it out as well. Like I said on that list, I may not contribute much, but I am an avid reader and help when I can.. I forced to a forum, I will be gone :) Please re-host! I second that! ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 9:29 PM Thomas Haller wrote: > Hi, > > I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a > mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already > modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. Our > git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. > That's unfortunate to hear, would you mind elaborating more on what made you decide not to migrate to Discourse? It's also unclear whether we should try to automatically subscribe the > current list subscribers to the new place. I think we should do that. > > Opinions? We can provide you the subscribers list if the decision you want to pursue is subscribing existing list members on the new hosting platform. Thanks, -- Cheers, Andrea Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat, GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator, Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 9:10 PM Martin wrote: > Hi Andrea, > > I already have an account at discourse.gnome.org and I'm happy to > receive emails from either Discourse or Mailman. Now I have two > questions. Maybe you could point me to the right answer: > > 1. How do I subscribe "networkmanager"? Is it by "Watched" or by >"Tracked" tags under notifications? > > You actually go to https://discourse.gnome.org/tag/networkmanager, right top corner where the ring bell is, then click on the notification preference you want there :) > 2. How do I open a new topic from my MUA? Esp. what is the correct >syntax to set e.g. tag "networkmanager"? > The approach with Discourse is different: you can only create topics against a particular category using your MUA, what happens after your post is created is Discourse applies the tag automatically based on a specific keyword that is present on either the subject or the body of your email. We encourage any interested party to let us know what mapping they need so we can land the automated tagging rule in place. Thanks! -- Cheers, Andrea Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat, GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator, Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, Oct 26, 2022 at 2:29 PM Thomas Haller via networkmanager-list wrote: > > Hi, > > I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a > mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already > modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. Our > git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. > > It's also unclear whether we should try to automatically subscribe the > current list subscribers to the new place. I think we should do that. > > Opinions? > > A big "Thank You" to the GNOME community for having our list there for > so long, 18 years. The service is (was) very appreciated. > > > Thomas Yes - just FYI - I am on another Gnome hosted list "Evolution" that is trying to figure it out as well. Like I said on that list, I may not contribute much, but I am an avid reader and help when I can.. I forced to a forum, I will be gone :) Please re-host! ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
Hi, I think that "we" (the NetworkManager community) will try to get a mailman mailing list on freedesktop.org. There is already modemmanager-de...@lists.freedesktop.org, so this seems a good fit. Our git is also on gitlab.freedesktop.org. It's also unclear whether we should try to automatically subscribe the current list subscribers to the new place. I think we should do that. Opinions? A big "Thank You" to the GNOME community for having our list there for so long, 18 years. The service is (was) very appreciated. Thomas ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
Hi Andrea, I already have an account at discourse.gnome.org and I'm happy to receive emails from either Discourse or Mailman. Now I have two questions. Maybe you could point me to the right answer: 1. How do I subscribe "networkmanager"? Is it by "Watched" or by "Tracked" tags under notifications? 2. How do I open a new topic from my MUA? Esp. what is the correct syntax to set e.g. tag "networkmanager"? Thanks in advance! Cheers, Martin ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
On Wed, 26 Oct 2022 14:00:14 +0200 Andrea Veri wrote: > Hi, > > I’ve received several questions during the past days which possibly > makes sense to summarize in a single topic [1] which I can then > reference. Hopefully this specific post will help anyone looking for > the same set of answers as well. If any additional common question > arises I’ll make sure to add it to this same topic in Discourse. > > Thanks and please let us know if you have any questions around > Discourse or your onboarding process! > > [1] > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/common-questions-re-mailman-to-discourse/11841 From there: "It definitely is, if anyone wants to use their mail client to interact with Discourse, they can. That’s exactly one of the features we looked into when we originally deployed Discourse back then. The workflow mainly is: You watch a category or a tag or both You receive mail sent to the registered mail address for your account, hit the reply button in your mail client and respond as you’d do with Mailman, the reply is then stored in Discourse, simple as that" So, I have to register for yet another system and faff about with its interface just to get all the email to the NetworkManager group sent to me? And this is somehow reliant on other people using the correct tags/categories? Consider me utterly underwhelmed. -- Brian Morrison ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: Announcement: this mailing list will be retired by the end of Oct 2022
Hi, I’ve received several questions during the past days which possibly makes sense to summarize in a single topic [1] which I can then reference. Hopefully this specific post will help anyone looking for the same set of answers as well. If any additional common question arises I’ll make sure to add it to this same topic in Discourse. Thanks and please let us know if you have any questions around Discourse or your onboarding process! [1] https://discourse.gnome.org/t/common-questions-re-mailman-to-discourse/11841 On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 1:09 PM Andrea Veri wrote: > Hi, > > As we have been communicating during the past few months GNOME's Mailman > platform is being decommissioned (python2 deprecation, major burden in > managing lists spam). The deadline is currently set to the end of October > 2022. Mailing list subscribers are invited to migrate to GNOME's Discourse > instance [1]. Neil made sure [2] to create a set of tags you can re-use to > initiate a new topic in the new platform, if a tag is missing please reach > out to me directly. > > Jehan (from the GIMP Team) kindly provided some instructions you can > follow [3] in order to safely migrate your reading workflow to Discourse. > The new platform supports several login methods including your GNOME > Account and other major OpenID providers. > > After the deadline of the end of October Mailman archives will remain > alive in read only mode for posterity. If the mailing list was used behind > an alias, please let me know so we can re-do the same setup but on > Discourse instead. > > Thanks, > > P.S All the l10n lists are still pending code changes in damned-lies, the > deadline to decommission those lists may slip by a week or two depending > how soon those changes will be made available in DL codebase > > [1] https://discourse.gnome.org > [2] > https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2022-September/msg00018.html > [3] > https://discourse.gnome.org/t/welcome-to-gimp-forum-on-gnome-discourse/11534/5 > > -- > Cheers, > Andrea > > Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat, > GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator, > Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary, > GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman > > Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it > -- Cheers, Andrea Principal Systems Engineer at Red Hat, GNOME Infrastructure Team Coordinator, Former GNOME Foundation Board of Directors Secretary, GNOME Foundation Membership & Elections Committee Chairman Homepage: https://www.dragonsreach.it ___ networkmanager-list mailing list networkmanager-list@gnome.org https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
