Re: debug tips
Aaron Konstam a écrit : startx starts a normal r5 session but runlevel claims that the system is still at rl3. Which seems strange to me. startx knows nothing about runlevels, it could not care less, that is why the system _is_ still at runlevel 3. Changing the runlevel starts and stops services but manually starting services does not change the runlevel. You should really do some reading on runlevels and init. Startx is not even a regular service. It is only a hack to start X. ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 15:42 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: Well you are essentially correct . startx starts a normal r5 session but runlevel claims that the system is still at rl3. Which seems strange to me. I think you're misunderstanding what runlevels are - the fact is, they're nothing more than instructions to init, telling it to run a bunch of shell scripts to start and stop programs. That runlevel 5 happens to start an X server and 3 doesn't is purely a matter of convention - if you really wanted to be contrary, you could have 6 start an X server, and 5 reboot the machine. The LinuxFromScratch project has a decent overview of the subject at the link below - some of the details are LFS specific, but most of it is more generally applicable. http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/development/chapter07/usage.html Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
Aaron Konstam a écrit : On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 08:53 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) I believe it, if you will accept that running startx puts you in to rl5 not rl3. Huh? startx is changing the runlevel? That is some news. ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 10:55 +0100, Marc Herbert wrote: Aaron Konstam a écrit : On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 08:53 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) I believe it, if you will accept that running startx puts you in to rl5 not rl3. Huh? startx is changing the runlevel? That is some news. This is a semantic argument. rl3 does not support X, rl5 does. I have never actually checked this but I would be amazed if when one runs startx the system does not switch to rl5. But I guess I will have to try it or depend on the testimony of someone who runs startx. I have been amazed before. -- === Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take Hofstadter's Law into account. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 14:39 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: I had a buggy wifi driver and rmmod and ismod on the wifi drivers would always fix my issue. Thanks a lot, this sounds like potentially fitting my case. One thing you can also try to help isolate the problem is: killall -TERM wpa_supplicant and NM will restart the supplicant automatically and then you can re-attempt connection. If this works, then the problem could be in the supplciant or NM, or also the driver. If this doesn't work, but rmmod/modprobe of the driver does, then the problem is almost definitely in the driver. Dan ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:21 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 10:55 +0100, Marc Herbert wrote: Aaron Konstam a écrit : On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 08:53 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) I believe it, if you will accept that running startx puts you in to rl5 not rl3. Huh? startx is changing the runlevel? That is some news. This is a semantic argument. rl3 does not support X, rl5 does. I have never actually checked this but I would be amazed if when one runs startx the system does not switch to rl5. But I guess I will have to try it or depend on the testimony of someone who runs startx. I have been amazed before. Well it is always good to be amazed at least once a day. I tried it. startx does not cause rl5 to be reported by runlevel. Howver, at least on my machine NM does not run the way it should. -- === memo, n.: An interoffice communication too often written more for the benefit of the person who sends it than the person who receives it. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:40 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:21 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 10:55 +0100, Marc Herbert wrote: Aaron Konstam a écrit : On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 08:53 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) I believe it, if you will accept that running startx puts you in to rl5 not rl3. Huh? startx is changing the runlevel? That is some news. This is a semantic argument. rl3 does not support X, rl5 does. I have never actually checked this but I would be amazed if when one runs startx the system does not switch to rl5. But I guess I will have to try it or depend on the testimony of someone who runs startx. I have been amazed before. Well it is always good to be amazed at least once a day. I tried it. startx does not cause rl5 to be reported by runlevel. Howver, at least on my machine NM does not run the way it should. Does startx spawn the applet? I'm pretty sure it should, since I think startx just starts up the normal r5 session but of course doesn't switch to r5. It also depends on what levels you've got NM set to start at: chkconfig --list | grep NetworkManager should tell you that. Dan ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
Aaron Konstam a écrit : Huh? startx is changing the runlevel? That is some news. This is a semantic argument. rl3 does not support X, rl5 does. OK. I have never actually checked this but I would be amazed if when one runs startx the system does not switch to rl5. Then be amazed? I have run startx and changed runlevels countless times on a number of various systems and I have never seen startx changing the runlevel (and especially not when run as a regular user, like it usually should be). startx does not change the runlevel on Fedora 10. I would be amazed if it does on Fedora 8. Manually starting or stopping X (or any other service) will never change the runlevel, because runlevels control services, not the other way around. By the way runlevels do not startx (unless you hacked your system configuration). They start X through a more flexible login manager instead (gdm, xdm, prefdm, etc.) Runlevels are currently becoming less and less relevant because of Linux upstart (resp. MacOS launchd, Solaris SMF, etc.) I was first afraid that this discussion would be off-topic, but actually not so much: NM must be started somehow. Cheers, Marc ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 09:49 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:40 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:21 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 10:55 +0100, Marc Herbert wrote: Aaron Konstam a écrit : On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 08:53 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) I believe it, if you will accept that running startx puts you in to rl5 not rl3. Huh? startx is changing the runlevel? That is some news. This is a semantic argument. rl3 does not support X, rl5 does. I have never actually checked this but I would be amazed if when one runs startx the system does not switch to rl5. But I guess I will have to try it or depend on the testimony of someone who runs startx. I have been amazed before. Well it is always good to be amazed at least once a day. I tried it. startx does not cause rl5 to be reported by runlevel. Howver, at least on my machine NM does not run the way it should. Does startx spawn the applet? I'm pretty sure it should, since I think startx just starts up the normal r5 session but of course doesn't switch to r5. It also depends on what levels you've got NM set to start at: chkconfig --list | grep NetworkManager should tell you that. Dan Well you are essentially correct . startx starts a normal r5 session but runlevel claims that the system is still at rl3. Which seems strange to me. However one thing that does not happen (on my machine at least) nm-applet does not start bringing up wireless. Maybe this should be expected that the wireless is not active but I suspect that I could start it by editing the proper connection. -- === There is nothing so easy but that it becomes difficult when you do it reluctantly. -- Publius Terentius Afer (Terence) === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
[Fwd: Re: debug tips]-correction
Forwarded Message From: Aaron Konstam akons...@sbcglobal.net To: Dan Williams d...@redhat.com Cc: Marc Herbert marc.herb...@gmail.com, networkmanager-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: debug tips Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:42:53 -0500 On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 09:49 -0400, Dan Williams wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:40 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:21 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote: On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 10:55 +0100, Marc Herbert wrote: Aaron Konstam a écrit : On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 08:53 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) I believe it, if you will accept that running startx puts you in to rl5 not rl3. Huh? startx is changing the runlevel? That is some news. This is a semantic argument. rl3 does not support X, rl5 does. I have never actually checked this but I would be amazed if when one runs startx the system does not switch to rl5. But I guess I will have to try it or depend on the testimony of someone who runs startx. I have been amazed before. Well it is always good to be amazed at least once a day. I tried it. startx does not cause rl5 to be reported by runlevel. Howver, at least on my machine NM does not run the way it should. Does startx spawn the applet? I'm pretty sure it should, since I think startx just starts up the normal r5 session but of course doesn't switch to r5. It also depends on what levels you've got NM set to start at: chkconfig --list | grep NetworkManager should tell you that. Dan Well you are essentially correct . startx starts a normal r5 session but runlevel claims that the system is still at rl3. Which seems strange to me. However one thing that does not happen (on my machine at least) nm-applet does not start bringing up wireless. Maybe this should be expected that the wireless is not active but I expect that I could start it by editing the proper connection. I must make a correction. If I run startx as a simple user I can connect to my default\ wireless connection if I enter the keyring passwd. As long as the proper services are running rh3 vs. rl5 is irrelevant. -- === There is nothing so easy but that it becomes difficult when you do it reluctantly. -- Publius Terentius Afer (Terence) === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Sun, 2009-05-31 at 09:21 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: I'm trying to debug a 100% reproducable issue but don't really know where to look for clues. I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ240E, running 64bit Fedora 8. It happens with many wifi networks that when I boot everything goes fine, I can connect to the wifi network with nm-applet but as soon as I lose the connection I will never be able reconnect. The networks in question use pre-shared keys. If I reboot, everything will be fine again, I can connect using the password, but as soon as I lose connection the only way I can reconnect is by reboot. Instead of rebooting I tried manually restarting all network related services but that doesn't help. These are the services I restart in this order from /etc/rc3.d that I guess are relevant: service ip6tables restart service iptables restart service network restart NetworkManager and network are two different competitive systems to support networking. I don't say it would work but you should restart NetworkManager not network. Sure. But in /etc/rc3.d the order of the network related services is this: ip6tables iptables network NetworkManager NetworkManagerDispatcher Not on my machine. NetworkManager and network are not designed to run at the same time. It is not clear what NM would do in run level 3 without X. You certainly don't have a nm-applet running at rl 3 in any meaningful fashion. So I've tried stopping all 5 services and starting them in the above order, because they get started in the above order while booting. But already the third service, 'network', fails and wlan doesn't come up. If I nevertheless restart NetworkManager and NetworkManagerDispatcher I can see the wireless network in question in nm-applet but can not connect. I enter the pre-shared key password but it wouldn't connect, it just gives back the password window. Look you talk about rc3.d but if you are using nm-applet you can't be at run level 3 so what is in rc3.d is irrelevant. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? If I reboot though the above 5 services are started in the above order and everything works, wlan comes up and nm-applet can connect using the same pre-shared key password. So it seems to me that I need to do some additional steps manually to completely reproduce what is happening at boot time. It just seems impossible to me that I can not reproduce everything what is happening at boot time, without actually rebooting but doing the same things manually as root. Any ideas where should I be looking for clues? Thanks a lot, Daniel -- === Anyone can do any amount of work provided it isn't the work he is supposed to be doing at the moment. -- Robert Benchley === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
I'm trying to debug a 100% reproducable issue but don't really know where to look for clues. I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ240E, running 64bit Fedora 8. It happens with many wifi networks that when I boot everything goes fine, I can connect to the wifi network with nm-applet but as soon as I lose the connection I will never be able reconnect. The networks in question use pre-shared keys. If I reboot, everything will be fine again, I can connect using the password, but as soon as I lose connection the only way I can reconnect is by reboot. Instead of rebooting I tried manually restarting all network related services but that doesn't help. These are the services I restart in this order from /etc/rc3.d that I guess are relevant: service ip6tables restart service iptables restart service network restart NetworkManager and network are two different competitive systems to support networking. I don't say it would work but you should restart NetworkManager not network. Sure. But in /etc/rc3.d the order of the network related services is this: ip6tables iptables network NetworkManager NetworkManagerDispatcher Not on my machine. NetworkManager and network are not designed to run at the same time. It is not clear what NM would do in run level 3 without X. You certainly don't have a nm-applet running at rl 3 in any meaningful fashion. I do boot in runlevel 3 and then start X manually with startx. After X is running nm-applet gets started as well. There is absolutely no problem here. So I've tried stopping all 5 services and starting them in the above order, because they get started in the above order while booting. But already the third service, 'network', fails and wlan doesn't come up. If I nevertheless restart NetworkManager and NetworkManagerDispatcher I can see the wireless network in question in nm-applet but can not connect. I enter the pre-shared key password but it wouldn't connect, it just gives back the password window. Look you talk about rc3.d but if you are using nm-applet you can't be at run level 3 so what is in rc3.d is irrelevant. As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) If I reboot though the above 5 services are started in the above order and everything works, wlan comes up and nm-applet can connect using the same pre-shared key password. So it seems to me that I need to do some additional steps manually to completely reproduce what is happening at boot time. It just seems impossible to me that I can not reproduce everything what is happening at boot time, without actually rebooting but doing the same things manually as root. Any ideas where should I be looking for clues? -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 08:53 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: I'm trying to debug a 100% reproducable issue but don't really know where to look for clues. I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ240E, running 64bit Fedora 8. It happens with many wifi networks that when I boot everything goes fine, I can connect to the wifi network with nm-applet but as soon as I lose the connection I will never be able reconnect. The networks in question use pre-shared keys. If I reboot, everything will be fine again, I can connect using the password, but as soon as I lose connection the only way I can reconnect is by reboot. Instead of rebooting I tried manually restarting all network related services but that doesn't help. These are the services I restart in this order from /etc/rc3.d that I guess are relevant: service ip6tables restart service iptables restart service network restart NetworkManager and network are two different competitive systems to support networking. I don't say it would work but you should restart NetworkManager not network. Sure. But in /etc/rc3.d the order of the network related services is this: ip6tables iptables network NetworkManager NetworkManagerDispatcher Not on my machine. NetworkManager and network are not designed to run at the same time. It is not clear what NM would do in run level 3 without X. You certainly don't have a nm-applet running at rl 3 in any meaningful fashion. I do boot in runlevel 3 and then start X manually with startx. After X is running nm-applet gets started as well. There is absolutely no problem here. So I've tried stopping all 5 services and starting them in the above order, because they get started in the above order while booting. But already the third service, 'network', fails and wlan doesn't come up. If I nevertheless restart NetworkManager and NetworkManagerDispatcher I can see the wireless network in question in nm-applet but can not connect. I enter the pre-shared key password but it wouldn't connect, it just gives back the password window. Look you talk about rc3.d but if you are using nm-applet you can't be at run level 3 so what is in rc3.d is irrelevant. As I've said, but let me repeat it again, I do boot into run level 3. After logging in I start X manually via startx. We are having a giant miscommunication going on . What rl are you actually running at? No, there is no miscommunication, simply you just have to believe that it is possible to boot in runlevel 3 and then it is possible to start X manually via startx :) I believe it, if you will accept that running startx puts you in to rl5 not rl3. Also that network and NM should not be run at the same time. If I reboot though the above 5 services are started in the above order and everything works, wlan comes up and nm-applet can connect using the same pre-shared key password. So it seems to me that I need to do some additional steps manually to completely reproduce what is happening at boot time. It just seems impossible to me that I can not reproduce everything what is happening at boot time, without actually rebooting but doing the same things manually as root. Any ideas where should I be looking for clues? -- === The idea is to die young as late as possible. -- Ashley Montague === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
I had a buggy wifi driver and rmmod and ismod on the wifi drivers would always fix my issue. Thanks a lot, this sounds like potentially fitting my case. Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
ismod, I meant insmod or you can use modprobe, obviously. -- John On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:39 PM, Daniel Fetchinson fetchin...@googlemail.com wrote: I had a buggy wifi driver and rmmod and ismod on the wifi drivers would always fix my issue. Thanks a lot, this sounds like potentially fitting my case. Cheers, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
I'm trying to debug a 100% reproducable issue but don't really know where to look for clues. I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ240E, running 64bit Fedora 8. It happens with many wifi networks that when I boot everything goes fine, I can connect to the wifi network with nm-applet but as soon as I lose the connection I will never be able reconnect. The networks in question use pre-shared keys. If I reboot, everything will be fine again, I can connect using the password, but as soon as I lose connection the only way I can reconnect is by reboot. Instead of rebooting I tried manually restarting all network related services but that doesn't help. These are the services I restart in this order from /etc/rc3.d that I guess are relevant: service ip6tables restart service iptables restart service network restart NetworkManager and network are two different competitive systems to support networking. I don't say it would work but you should restart NetworkManager not network. Sure. But in /etc/rc3.d the order of the network related services is this: ip6tables iptables network NetworkManager NetworkManagerDispatcher So I've tried stopping all 5 services and starting them in the above order, because they get started in the above order while booting. But already the third service, 'network', fails and wlan doesn't come up. If I nevertheless restart NetworkManager and NetworkManagerDispatcher I can see the wireless network in question in nm-applet but can not connect. I enter the pre-shared key password but it wouldn't connect, it just gives back the password window. If I reboot though the above 5 services are started in the above order and everything works, wlan comes up and nm-applet can connect using the same pre-shared key password. So it seems to me that I need to do some additional steps manually to completely reproduce what is happening at boot time. It just seems impossible to me that I can not reproduce everything what is happening at boot time, without actually rebooting but doing the same things manually as root. Any ideas where should I be looking for clues? Thanks a lot, Daniel -- Psss, psss, put it down! - http://www.cafepress.com/putitdown ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: debug tips
On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 10:49 -0700, Daniel Fetchinson wrote: Hi folks, I'm trying to debug a 100% reproducable issue but don't really know where to look for clues. I have a Sony VAIO VGN-FZ240E, running 64bit Fedora 8. It happens with many wifi networks that when I boot everything goes fine, I can connect to the wifi network with nm-applet but as soon as I lose the connection I will never be able reconnect. The networks in question use pre-shared keys. If I reboot, everything will be fine again, I can connect using the password, but as soon as I lose connection the only way I can reconnect is by reboot. Instead of rebooting I tried manually restarting all network related services but that doesn't help. These are the services I restart in this order from /etc/rc3.d that I guess are relevant: service ip6tables restart service iptables restart service network restart NetworkManager and network are two different competitive systems to support networking. I don't say it would work but you should restart NetworkManager not network. The first two are fine, but 'service network restart' always fails bringing up wlan. When I reboot, wlan comes up okay though. And this is 100% reproducable. I have absolutely no clue what reboot does that I don't when manually starting the services. Also, I have no idea where to look for clues. Which log files to look at? Any other tips? Thanks very much, Daniel -- === Love isn't only blind, it's also deaf, dumb, and stupid. === Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akons...@sbcglobal.net ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
