Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
Angus Auld wrote: - Original Message - From: Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 08 Jan 2003 07:16:44 -0500 To: NewbieMandrake-List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 10:52, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Monday January 6 2003 08:00 pm, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. There's two schools on this, I side with those that believe spinning the drives down is a bad idea. Sort'a like a lightbulb, they last longer if you're not always turnin 'em off and on ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas ** Lyvim Xaphir wrote: I'm in the school that turns stuff off. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of comparing a hard drive with a short circuit. I'm more amiable to thinking of a hard drive as having miles, like a car; which is a much closer anology. It's closer because of bearing surfaces; the number of rotations that the bearings have is finite, just as the number of rotations that your car crankshaft has is finite. You don't want to leave your car running all the time just to keep it operational. Most of the time a drive fails not from it's controller electronics, but rather from sealed bearing failure. I know a fellow in the data recovery business, and he is constantly getting old drives spinning long enough to extract the data. He does not spend a comparatively long time replacing drive electronics. Yes the temperature differentials have an impact, but only in those cases that don't have good enough ventilation. Also the impact of temperature differentials is directly proportional to the scope or variation bandwidth of those temperature differentials. In a light bulb scenario you are talking about probably the most extreme variance possible in an appliance, since it goes from room temperature to several hundred degrees in a fraction of a second within power-on. In a direct current solid state device, such as a hard drive, this is far from the case, and even less so with adequate airflow. I've been involved with hardware since the late 80's, and I still have hard drives operational from that time. They are not powered on 24/7. Just my wooden nickel... --LX *** Wow Lyvim, do I ever agree wholeheartedly! I have never been comfortable with the idea of leaving something on when it isn't in use. Not a light bulb, not anything really. I don't know a lot about electronics, but I have been interested in things mechanical all my life. A hard drive has major mechanical components, and those type of components wear with use. Auto engines suffer from a wear factor upon startup that is more severe than normal, mainly due to lack of lubrication until the oil pump is able to supply the required oil under pressure to the bearing surfaces. HD's don't have that type of startup considerations. I shut my comp down when I'm not using it. It makes me feel better to do that, it just seems the environmentally friendlier thing to do. Of course, that's just IMHO. I know there are those who make a valid case of on 24/7 too. To each his/her own. All the best! --Angus all this stuff about DeskStars makes me real glad I'm a Maxtor only man. All my machines have Maxtor drives in them and they all run 24/7. Especially my gateway/firewall. The only time any of the machines are powered down is for a lightning storm or when I got on vacation. my gateway/firewall machine and the fileserver/mailserver have been running 24/7 for the past two years. half the time I forget they're even there unless there's a problem with on the mailserver. -- Mark --- Paid for by Penguins against modern appliances(R) Linux User Since 1996 Powered by Mandrake Linux 8.2 9.0 Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 02:00 am, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. Andy Miller Hello, Something i read on the reiserfs mailing list: -- Forwarded Part Message -- Subject: Re: kernel BUG at prints.c:334 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 08:36:22 +0100 From: Maciej Matysiak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On the 6th of January 2003 at 08:11, Oleg Drokin green#namesys.com wrote: Logs you just provided show that your harddrive cannot remember what it was supposed to store anymore. yes. it appeared that the disk has just died. without any warning, just stopped spinning. i didn't know that at the time of sending the mail (i've had only remote access to the server), so please forgive me wasting your time. btw., it appears for me that ibm disks have something like 'y2k3 problem'. it's a poor joke, but i got already 3 ibm disks that died in my servers this year. that one was working not even 3 weeks. all of them scsi, made in hungary or italy. is it my bad luck, or should i buy seagate next time? (rhetorical question, i don't want to start flamewar here). --- It seems you're lucky your hard disks lasted a whole month! :-/ So I'd say avoid the IBM hard drives (and WD, I've read). There are power-saving modes, you can do IIRC apmd -s, hdparm *might*. However, if there is even minor but intermitent access then your hard disk will power up again, plus the query will be very slow (waiting for the HD). Regards, _nasturtium Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 10:52, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Monday January 6 2003 08:00 pm, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. There's two schools on this, I side with those that believe spinning the drives down is a bad idea. Sort'a like a lightbulb, they last longer if you're not always turnin 'em off and on ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas I'm in the school that turns stuff off. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of comparing a hard drive with a short circuit. I'm more amiable to thinking of a hard drive as having miles, like a car; which is a much closer anology. It's closer because of bearing surfaces; the number of rotations that the bearings have is finite, just as the number of rotations that your car crankshaft has is finite. You don't want to leave your car running all the time just to keep it operational. Most of the time a drive fails not from it's controller electronics, but rather from sealed bearing failure. I know a fellow in the data recovery business, and he is constantly getting old drives spinning long enough to extract the data. He does not spend a comparatively long time replacing drive electronics. Yes the temperature differentials have an impact, but only in those cases that don't have good enough ventilation. Also the impact of temperature differentials is directly proportional to the scope or variation bandwidth of those temperature differentials. In a light bulb scenario you are talking about probably the most extreme variance possible in an appliance, since it goes from room temperature to several hundred degrees in a fraction of a second within power-on. In a direct current solid state device, such as a hard drive, this is far from the case, and even less so with adequate airflow. I've been involved with hardware since the late 80's, and I still have hard drives operational from that time. They are not powered on 24/7. Just my wooden nickel... --LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
Hi all Found this in a Solaris mailing list. Maybe IBM deskstar does have defects. HTH Cheers... Looks like it's still there in Solaris 9 EA. Of course, it's probably a problem with the drives themselves, but I was hoping it would have been fixed in 9. For those that haven't seen the problem or don't remember, you can't warm reboot a Solaris x86 system with IBM Deskstar (a.k.a. Deathstar) drives. It happens if you have ata-dma-enabled set to 1. You get a whole bunch of IDE errors. Power cycling works fine. This particular machine has never seen any other x86 OS, so I don't know if it's Solaris-specific. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
- Original Message - From: Lyvim Xaphir [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 08 Jan 2003 07:16:44 -0500 To: NewbieMandrake-List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 10:52, Tom Brinkman wrote: On Monday January 6 2003 08:00 pm, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. There's two schools on this, I side with those that believe spinning the drives down is a bad idea. Sort'a like a lightbulb, they last longer if you're not always turnin 'em off and on ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas ** Lyvim Xaphir wrote: I'm in the school that turns stuff off. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of comparing a hard drive with a short circuit. I'm more amiable to thinking of a hard drive as having miles, like a car; which is a much closer anology. It's closer because of bearing surfaces; the number of rotations that the bearings have is finite, just as the number of rotations that your car crankshaft has is finite. You don't want to leave your car running all the time just to keep it operational. Most of the time a drive fails not from it's controller electronics, but rather from sealed bearing failure. I know a fellow in the data recovery business, and he is constantly getting old drives spinning long enough to extract the data. He does not spend a comparatively long time replacing drive electronics. Yes the temperature differentials have an impact, but only in those cases that don't have good enough ventilation. Also the impact of temperature differentials is directly proportional to the scope or variation bandwidth of those temperature differentials. In a light bulb scenario you are talking about probably the most extreme variance possible in an appliance, since it goes from room temperature to several hundred degrees in a fraction of a second within power-on. In a direct current solid state device, such as a hard drive, this is far from the case, and even less so with adequate airflow. I've been involved with hardware since the late 80's, and I still have hard drives operational from that time. They are not powered on 24/7. Just my wooden nickel... --LX *** Wow Lyvim, do I ever agree wholeheartedly! I have never been comfortable with the idea of leaving something on when it isn't in use. Not a light bulb, not anything really. I don't know a lot about electronics, but I have been interested in things mechanical all my life. A hard drive has major mechanical components, and those type of components wear with use. Auto engines suffer from a wear factor upon startup that is more severe than normal, mainly due to lack of lubrication until the oil pump is able to supply the required oil under pressure to the bearing surfaces. HD's don't have that type of startup considerations. I shut my comp down when I'm not using it. It makes me feel better to do that, it just seems the environmentally friendlier thing to do. Of course, that's just IMHO. I know there are those who make a valid case of on 24/7 too. To each his/her own. All the best! --Angus Let us not look back in anger or forward in fear, but around in awareness.--James Thurber *** *Reg. Linux User #278931* *** *Power by Mandrake Linux 9.0* *** -- ___ Get your free email from http://mymail.operamail.com Powered by Outblaze Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
snip I'm in the school that turns stuff off. I'm very uncomfortable with the idea of comparing a hard drive with a short circuit. I'm more amiable to thinking of a hard drive as having miles, like a car; which is a much closer analogy. It's closer because of bearing surfaces; the number of rotations that the bearings have is finite, just as the number of rotations that your car crankshaft has is finite. You don't want to leave your car running all the time just to keep it operational. H, since I have been a Diesel Tech for over 20 years (before computers, and still am certified to teach it (and do for Mitsubishi/Caterpillar) I would ask you to consider that it is not recommended to start and stop larger diesels that are turbo powered due to a couple of problems, on being the heat transfer to oil that is not getting cooled in the turbo, and the other being the wear when the motor starts due to a lack of oil under pressure. so in fact, there are MANY large and small internal combustion products where the manufacture recommends minimizing starting and stopping the motor as much as possible, and that has a lot to do with why you might see a number of diesel trucks at a rest area, where the drivers leave them at idle over night. We could also consider a comparison to Flourecent Lights. the amount of electric power used to start the lights is greater that the wattage used to keep them on, so if makes sense to leave the lights on rather than turn them off each time you leave the room, if you are going to return to that room in the next half hour. So, while there is no hard and fast or written in stone rule, this is one of those areas that experience and good sense are the reasons people pay for consulting and Service Techs. Most of the time a drive fails not from it's controller electronics, but rather from sealed bearing failure. In almost any manufactured item with moving parts, the moving parts will fail before solid state components fail, (unless the Solid State components are moving so much they to should be considered moving parts) I know a fellow in the data recovery business, and he is constantly getting old drives spinning long enough to extract the data. He does not spend a comparatively long time replacing drive electronics. Yes the temperature differentials have an impact, but only in those cases that don't have good enough ventilation. so, could we define good enough ventilation as good enough ventilation to abrogate the effect of the temperature differentials experienced Also the impact of temperature differentials is directly proportional to the scope or variation bandwidth of those temperature differentials. In a light bulb scenario you are talking about probably the most extreme variance possible in an appliance, since it goes from room temperature to several hundred degrees in a fraction of a second within power-on. In a direct current solid state device, such as a hard drive, this is far from the case, and even less so with adequate airflow. I've been involved with hardware since the late 80's, and I still have hard drives operational from that time. They are not powered on 24/7. what do you use a 10 meg hard drive for these days? or are we considering that the 10 meg MFM hard drive and controller in that AST 8088 in the closet are still working since we can plug it all up and still get it to boot and play simcity (the original) in monochrome, without a mouse. (big stupid redneck one tooth grin) Just my wooden nickel... --LX and my wooden .02$usd Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Wed, 2003-01-08 at 09:20, et wrote: H, since I have been a Diesel Tech for over 20 years (before computers, and still am certified to teach it (and do for Mitsubishi/Caterpillar) I would ask you to consider that it is not recommended to start and stop larger diesels that are turbo powered Good point, since turbo chargers are very high temperature parts. This equates to a very high temperature differential, which fits in nicely with what I was saying, plus you are combining high temperatures and stresses with a potential lack of lubricant, which I don't need to tell you results in catastrophic situations. due to a couple of problems, on being the heat transfer to oil that is not getting cooled in the turbo, and the other being the wear when the motor starts due to a lack of oil under pressure. so in fact, there are MANY large and small internal combustion products where the manufacture recommends minimizing starting and stopping the motor as much as possible, Primarily due to lack of initial availability of lubricant, which is again reinforcing my point, since we are talking about sealed bearings with regard to hard disks. With sealed bearings it's much more of a mileage problem than it is a start stop problem, as the friction surfaces are always lubed. and that has a lot to do with why you might see a number of diesel trucks at a rest area, where the drivers leave them at idle over night. We could also consider a comparison to Flourecent Lights. the amount of electric power used to start the lights is greater that the wattage used to keep them on, so if makes sense to leave the lights on rather than turn them off each time you leave the room, if you are going to return to that room in the next half hour. That's right if you are talking as you said about 30 minute power on/off cycles, but that's not really what we are considering. My thought is between a couple of hours to daily. So, while there is no hard and fast or written in stone rule, this is one of those areas that experience and good sense are the reasons people pay for consulting and Service Techs. Hmmm..good point. :) Most of the time a drive fails not from it's controller electronics, but rather from sealed bearing failure. In almost any manufactured item with moving parts, the moving parts will fail before solid state components fail, (unless the Solid State components are moving so much they to should be considered moving parts) Yes. Snip I've been involved with hardware since the late 80's, and I still have hard drives operational from that time. They are not powered on 24/7. what do you use a 10 meg hard drive for these days? or are we considering that the 10 meg MFM hard drive and controller in that AST 8088 in the closet are still working since we can plug it all up and still get it to boot and play simcity (the original) in monochrome, without a mouse. (big stupid redneck one tooth grin) IDE drives were being produced in the late 80's. Seagate was producing generic 40 meg ide's and I was at that time in charge of mass producing IBM clones for Computerland. When the first IDE host adapters became available for the ISA bus, that was about the time we started making machines. I have some drives from that time period. Sentimental reasons. When I got enough money, I bought a Compaq Deskpro 386/20e and managed to get a 100 meg drive installed. At the time, this was a cadillac setup. The first thing I installed on it was SCO Xenix; kinda like the champagne bottle against the hull of the ship. I also had dos games, but I ran them from 3 1/2 floppy. The drive I had in the machine was a Conner Peripherals OEM drive, model number on the top is H100386S-P. Chipset is dated 1989; I keep it around so that I can remember what SCO Xenix was like. :) --LX -- °°° Kernel 2.4.18-6mdk Mandrake Linux 8.2 Enlightenment 0.16.5-11mdkEvolution 1.0.2-5mdk Registered Linux User #268899 http://counter.li.org/ °°° Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
AND ANOTHER --- _nasturtium [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 02:00 am, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. Andy Miller Hello, Something i read on the reiserfs mailing list: -- Forwarded Part Message -- Subject: Re: kernel BUG at prints.c:334 Date: Mon, 06 Jan 2003 08:36:22 +0100 From: Maciej Matysiak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On the 6th of January 2003 at 08:11, Oleg Drokin green#namesys.com wrote: Logs you just provided show that your harddrive cannot remember what it was supposed to store anymore. yes. it appeared that the disk has just died. without any warning, just stopped spinning. i didn't know that at the time of sending the mail (i've had only remote access to the server), so please forgive me wasting your time. btw., it appears for me that ibm disks have something like 'y2k3 problem'. it's a poor joke, but i got already 3 ibm disks that died in my servers this year. that one was working not even 3 weeks. all of them scsi, made in hungary or italy. is it my bad luck, or should i buy seagate next time? (rhetorical question, i don't want to start flamewar here). --- It seems you're lucky your hard disks lasted a whole month! :-/ So I'd say avoid the IBM hard drives (and WD, I've read). There are power-saving modes, you can do IIRC apmd -s, hdparm *might*. However, if there is even minor but intermitent access then your hard disk will power up again, plus the query will be very slow (waiting for the HD). Regards, _nasturtium Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Thu, 2003-01-09 at 00:59, Angus Auld wrote: Wow Lyvim, do I ever agree wholeheartedly! I have never been comfortable with the idea of leaving something on when it isn't in use. Not a light bulb, not anything really. I don't know a lot about electronics, but I have been interested in things mechanical all my life. A hard drive has major mechanical components, and those type of components wear with use. Auto engines suffer from a wear factor upon startup that is more severe than normal, mainly due to lack of lubrication until the oil pump is able to supply the required oil under pressure to the bearing surfaces. HD's don't have that type of startup considerations. I shut my comp down when I'm not using it. It makes me feel better to do that, it just seems the environmentally friendlier thing to do. Of course, that's just IMHO. I know there are those who make a valid case of on 24/7 too. To each his/her own. All the best! --Angus Everyone has their own perspective on this - but I'm from the school of thought that once it's turned on, it's on. A hard drive, once cooled down, and once the lubes are cooled, puts more stress on itself powering up and warming up. From the point at which I started running BBS's, and then to administering servers, turning them off was NOT an option. My systems even at home run 24x7 - except the Mac. I feel I get better life out of my machines from keeping them warm and running. I'd hate to think of working in a network situation where you had a server that went to sleep and was only woken up when accessed - scary to think of the repercussions from that... -- Thu Jan 9 06:00:00 EST 2003 6:00am up 6:50, 4 users, load average: 0.70, 0.59, 0.53 -- |____ | kuhn media australia| | / ,, /| |'-. | http://kma.0catch.com | | .\__/ || | | |=| | _ / `._ \|_|_.-' | stephen kuhn| | | / \__.`=._) (_ | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] | | |/ ._/ || | email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]| | |'. `\ | | |icq: 5483808 | | ;/ / | | | | | smk ) /_/| |.---.| | mobile: 0410-728-389| | ' `-`' | Berkeley, New South Wales, AU | -- * linux user:267497 * RH 7.3+ * PC/Mac/Linux/Networking/Consulting -- What is a magician but a practising theorist? -- Obi-Wan Kenobi Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
El Mar 07 Ene 2003 12:24, Tony S. Sykes escribió: Andy, I saw something recently about the IBM hard drives (Can't remember where) but they are fine if they have good ventilation. They have a heat build up problem from what I remember from the article, but if they have sufficient space to keep cool they should be fine. Tony. I have two Deskstars raided, with two dedicated fans, and works very fine. In stand by, 'hddtemp' reports 47° C. Has somebody got 'hddtemp' to work under Ksensors? Suerte. Pilagá Pilagá Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Tuesday 07 Jan 2003 2:00 am, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Only if you want to keep your data. I would have thought that you should be entitled to your money back from your vendor. The idea of a HDD that can only be used 1/2 time is ludicrous. In England I think it would be covered by the Trades Description Act - I'm sure most countries have similar provisions. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Tue, 7 Jan 2003 11:03:48 + Anne Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 07 Jan 2003 2:00 am, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Only if you want to keep your data. I would have thought that you should be entitled to your money back from your vendor. The idea of a HDD that can only be used 1/2 time is ludicrous. In England I think it would be covered by the Trades Description Act - I'm sure most countries have similar provisions. Anne As a suggestion, when you decide to replace these (which i certainly hope you do and that you can get a refund on the pieces of junk) I've had 2 Maxtor drives in my older computer for 5 years now and it is always on. No problems with these drives :) good luck with it. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Monday 06 Jan 2003 11:26 am, Jerry wrote: As a suggestion, when you decide to replace these (which i certainly hope you do and that you can get a refund on the pieces of junk) I've had 2 Maxtor drives in my older computer for 5 years now and it is always on. No problems with these drives :) good luck with it. I like Maxtor drives - and I especially like the fact that they are the cheapest offered by my vendor as well as being utterly reliable in my experience. Anne Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 05:28, Anne Wilson wrote: I like Maxtor drives - and I especially like the fact that they are the cheapest offered by my vendor as well as being utterly reliable in my experience. Maxtor? Bad Juju for me. Probably one of the loudest hard drives I've ever used. I've also been scared of seagate for years, but there seems to be a genuine effort by that company to fix that, and I would actually even consider buying them. (NOT the desktop line.. the barracuda's...) Chuck Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
Andy, I saw something recently about the IBM hard drives (Can't remember where) but they are fine if they have good ventilation. They have a heat build up problem from what I remember from the article, but if they have sufficient space to keep cool they should be fine. Tony. -Original Message- From: Andrew Miller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 2:00 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. Andy Miller -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- Business Computer Projects - Disclaimer -+-+-+-+-+-+-+- This message, and any associated attachment is confidential. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system, do not use or disclose the information in any way, and notify either Tony S. Sykes or the postmaster mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] immediately. The contents of this message may contain personal views which are not necessarily the views of Business Computer Projects Ltd., unless specifically stated. Whilst every effort has been made to ensure that emails and their attachments are virus free, it is the responsibility of the recipient(s) to verify the integrity of such emails. Business Computer Projects Ltd BCP House 151 Charles Street Stockport Cheshire SK1 3JY Tel: +44 (0)161 355-3000 Fax: +44 (0)161 355-3001 Web: http://www.bcpsoftware.com http://www.bcpsoftware.com/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Monday January 6 2003 08:00 pm, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. There's two schools on this, I side with those that believe spinning the drives down is a bad idea. Sort'a like a lightbulb, they last longer if you're not always turnin 'em off and on ;) -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Tuesday 07 January 2003 10:52 am, Tom Brinkman wrote: There's two schools on this, I side with those that believe spinning the drives down is a bad idea. Sort'a like a lightbulb, they last longer if you're not always turnin 'em off and on ;) One of the things I do when I install a new MB/update BIOS is go into power management and make sure my HD(s) *don't* spin down... -- /\ Dark Lord \/ Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Wed, 2003-01-08 at 02:10, Chuck Burns wrote: On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 05:28, Anne Wilson wrote: I like Maxtor drives - and I especially like the fact that they are the cheapest offered by my vendor as well as being utterly reliable in my experience. Maxtor? Bad Juju for me. Probably one of the loudest hard drives I've ever used. I've also been scared of seagate for years, but there seems to be a genuine effort by that company to fix that, and I would actually even consider buying them. (NOT the desktop line.. the barracuda's...) Chuck Mostly I've had wonderful experiences with IBM and Seagate drives - especially for large scale boxen...WD's for everything/everyone else...my ST's are happy campers and run 24x7x365.25 - rarely ever powered down. Heat problems - especially due to poor case design have been fixed by cutting a 6 diameter hole in the SIDE of the casing and bolting a 240v, 400 cubic meter per hour fan in the side (who says I don't mod my cases?) - keeping everything inside at a nice 21c (and the CPU at a nice 33c). -- kuhn media australia - kma.0catch.com - stephen katherine kuhn -PC/Mac/Linux/Consulting/eMarketing- * linux user: 267497 * rh 7.3+ * Hi, I'm Preston A. Mantis, president of Consumers Retail Law Outlet. As you can see by my suit and the fact that I have all these books of equal height on the shelves behind me, I am a trained legal attorney. Do you have a car or a job? Do you ever walk around? If so, you probably have the makings of an excellent legal case. Although of course every case is different, I would definitely say that based on my experience and training, there's no reason why you shouldn't come out of this thing with at least a cabin cruiser. Remember, at the Preston A. Mantis Consumers Retail Law Outlet, our motto is: 'It is very difficult to disprove certain kinds of pain.' -- Dave Barry, Pain and Suffering Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. Andy Miller Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] IBM Deskstars in Mandrake 9.0 server
On Tue, 2003-01-07 at 13:00, Andrew Miller wrote: I built a server recently for web server, email server, file server and other uses and am running Mandrake 9.0 on it. I used a pair of 100 GB IBM Deskstars (120GXP's I believe). IBM is having problems with these drives failing and now recommends only using them 330 hours a month, something less than 50% of the time (see http://www.sheller.com/ibmpress.htm). My question is whether my use of these drives in a server application is something I should avoid? Also, is there a setting for power savings that would sleep the drive when it is not getting any hits (most of the time). Looks l could add a decent SCSI drive that is meant for always-on use. Your feedback is welcome. Andy Miller It's rather a scary thought that someone (IBM) would market a product that is not meant for fulltime usage. If that is the case, I would completely ditch the drives in favor of drives that are meant to be used as proper drives ARE used. Finding workarounds for a manufacturer's blatant misrepresentation is not a good route to take - that is, unless you can't get your money back on them. -- Tue Jan 7 13:35:00 EST 2003 1:35pm up 1:16, 3 users, load average: 0.02, 0.11, 0.26 kuhn media australia - kma.0catch.com - stephen kuhn - katherine kuhn - berkeley, nsw, au email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - [EMAIL PROTECTED] icq: 5483808 - mobile: 0410-728-389 -PC/Mac/Linux/Consulting/eMarketing- * linux user: 267497 * rh 7.3+ * A shortcut is the longest distance between two points. Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
