[newbie] Upgrade/Install Options -- DANGER AHEAD!!

2000-06-29 Thread Benjamin Sher

Dear Denis and friends:

Remember my rant about this problem (i.e. of combinging the
install/upgrade option with automatic/custom/expert on THE SAME DIALOGUE
BOX?

Well, as luck or rather misfortune (almost!) would have it, it just
happened to me.  

Anxious to try out the new 7.1 anti-aliasing (which is a welcome relief
from squinting my eyes for the past year and half on the Web), I decided
to download 7.1 from the Web by FTP using a floppy network. Thanks to
your excellent troubleshooting, the original problem of downloading the
two CD has indeed been fixed, and the installation went FLAWLESSLY from
metalab.unc.edu. I choose to do an Install (Custom, Normal) into hda
(/). hdb is my /home directory and hdc is my Win98 partition. No
problem.

After configuring everything and setting up KDE, I went back, as I
usually do, to metalab.unc.edu to download the Devlopment files (Expert,
Normal). 

[Footnote: I found it very difficult to highlight more than one category
at a time in order to download the various categories. Fortunately, I
only needed Development, so that was no problem, but you may wish to
investigate the matter and see if there is a bug in highlighting and
selecting more than one category. I had no such problem in my official
LM 7.0 Power Pack CD.]

NOW THE PLOT THICKENS:

As soon as I got through the first few screens (mouse, keyboard, etc.),
I suddenly find myself face to face with the Installation Options:

Automated, Custom, Expert arranged vertically on the left and Install or
Upgrade horizontally on the bottom of the dialogue box. And, to add to
the confusion, Automated is checked as Default. I cannot imagine, as I
have already mentioned this earlier, a more disaster-prone situation
than this. And, lo, just as I thought, before I had a chance to think
through, I hit the Upgrade button and suddenly I see: "Getting available
packages."' No way TO TURN BACK AND CORRECT my mistake. NO ERROR MESSAGE
STOPPING ME DEAD IN MY TRACKS asking: Are you sure you want to select
"Automate" (since Automate will probably wipe out all of your drives,
including Windows). After spending several hours downloading and
installing and configuring LM 7.1 and doing it perfectly, suddenly I
found myself about TO LOSE EVERYTHING due to human error, an error all
to commonly made by us mortals, in fact, as likely to be made by the
more experienced as by the newbie. 

Fortunately, I understood what I had to do: I immediately powered off
the system and removed the floppy network.img install diskette. Then, I
went back to metalab and very gingerly made sure to select Upgrade and
Expert, then Development.

Believe me, if I were a newbie or even an expert (even experts are prone
to human error), I would be mad as hell at Mandrake for ruining my
installation. Wouldn't you?

Whoever joined those two sets of options was thinking of EFFICIENCY,
NOT, I assure you, USER-FRIENDLINESS!!!

Here is what I suggest to protect newbies, moderately experienced users
and even experts:

First dialogue box: INSTALL or UPGRADE (just as in LM 7.0. With option
to go BACK and change one's selection.

Second dialogue box: Automated, Custom or Expert with Automated checked,
if you wish (again, as in LM 7.0. With option to go BACK and change
one's selection.

Third dialgoue box: Normal, Development, Server with option to go BACK
and change one's selection.

NOW, AN EXTRA SUMMARY DIALOGUE BOX (just as you do for the printer or
Xconfigurator): a summary of all selections made with an OPTION to EDIT
these selections or to go BACK and change them.

Then, and only then, should a user be thrown into the irreversible
process of downloading the packages themselves.

I implore you, heed my example and I am sure that of (tens) of thousands
of others. The installation process is TERRIFYING enough. Think of the
user. That's your motto: "a user-friendly OS". Protect the user. Don't
expose him/her to unbearable stress and anxiety that are TOTALLY
UNNECESSARY. Combining the two installation options as explained above
to save a few bytes is EXTREMELY REGRESSIVE and extremely
anxiety-inducing. You are one of the easiest Linux distro to install so
far and, in my opinion and that of many others, the finest distro
available. Don't mess it up with cost-cutting bullshit. Always look at
it from the point of view of the user, especially the newbie or the
ordinary user who is installing for the first time (and then upgrading
for the first time). I know that the combined dialogue box looks
LOGICAL. But that's the point. Sometimes LOGIC is in direct conflict
with COMMON SENSE and USER-FRIENDLINESS.

I will close with an example from Windows 3.1. Those of you who used 3.1
might remember that in the File Manager, Microsoft in its infinite
wisdom choose to arrange the options under File as follows:

MOVE
COPY
DELETE

Now that looks very logical. Doesn't it. Yes, all too logical. It's a
recipe for disaster, all the more so since Win 3.1 does not have a
Recycle Bin. You can 

Re: [newbie] Upgrade/Install Options -- DANGER AHEAD!!

2000-06-29 Thread Alan Shoemaker

Benjaminhfirst off what's this doing in newbie? 
Second, are you assuming that an upgrade is going to
partition/format the drive(s) or is there evidence that this
happens?  

After all an upgrade skips the partitioning step.  You can't,
after all, upgrade a clean set of partitions that have no
system to upgrade.  Just because it's called automated
shouldn't make it wipe a system before it does the upgrade. 
Thats rather silly.

Alan


Benjamin Sher wrote:
 
 Dear Denis and friends:
 
 Remember my rant about this problem (i.e. of combinging the
 install/upgrade option with automatic/custom/expert on THE SAME DIALOGUE
 BOX?
 
 Well, as luck or rather misfortune (almost!) would have it, it just
 happened to me.
 
 Anxious to try out the new 7.1 anti-aliasing (which is a welcome relief
 from squinting my eyes for the past year and half on the Web), I decided
 to download 7.1 from the Web by FTP using a floppy network. Thanks to
 your excellent troubleshooting, the original problem of downloading the
 two CD has indeed been fixed, and the installation went FLAWLESSLY from
 metalab.unc.edu. I choose to do an Install (Custom, Normal) into hda
 (/). hdb is my /home directory and hdc is my Win98 partition. No
 problem.
 
 After configuring everything and setting up KDE, I went back, as I
 usually do, to metalab.unc.edu to download the Devlopment files (Expert,
 Normal).
 
 [Footnote: I found it very difficult to highlight more than one category
 at a time in order to download the various categories. Fortunately, I
 only needed Development, so that was no problem, but you may wish to
 investigate the matter and see if there is a bug in highlighting and
 selecting more than one category. I had no such problem in my official
 LM 7.0 Power Pack CD.]
 
 NOW THE PLOT THICKENS:
 
 As soon as I got through the first few screens (mouse, keyboard, etc.),
 I suddenly find myself face to face with the Installation Options:
 
 Automated, Custom, Expert arranged vertically on the left and Install or
 Upgrade horizontally on the bottom of the dialogue box. And, to add to
 the confusion, Automated is checked as Default. I cannot imagine, as I
 have already mentioned this earlier, a more disaster-prone situation
 than this. And, lo, just as I thought, before I had a chance to think
 through, I hit the Upgrade button and suddenly I see: "Getting available
 packages."' No way TO TURN BACK AND CORRECT my mistake. NO ERROR MESSAGE
 STOPPING ME DEAD IN MY TRACKS asking: Are you sure you want to select
 "Automate" (since Automate will probably wipe out all of your drives,
 including Windows). After spending several hours downloading and
 installing and configuring LM 7.1 and doing it perfectly, suddenly I
 found myself about TO LOSE EVERYTHING due to human error, an error all
 to commonly made by us mortals, in fact, as likely to be made by the
 more experienced as by the newbie.
 
 Fortunately, I understood what I had to do: I immediately powered off
 the system and removed the floppy network.img install diskette. Then, I
 went back to metalab and very gingerly made sure to select Upgrade and
 Expert, then Development.
 
 Believe me, if I were a newbie or even an expert (even experts are prone
 to human error), I would be mad as hell at Mandrake for ruining my
 installation. Wouldn't you?
 
 Whoever joined those two sets of options was thinking of EFFICIENCY,
 NOT, I assure you, USER-FRIENDLINESS!!!
 
 Here is what I suggest to protect newbies, moderately experienced users
 and even experts:
 
 First dialogue box: INSTALL or UPGRADE (just as in LM 7.0. With option
 to go BACK and change one's selection.
 
 Second dialogue box: Automated, Custom or Expert with Automated checked,
 if you wish (again, as in LM 7.0. With option to go BACK and change
 one's selection.
 
 Third dialgoue box: Normal, Development, Server with option to go BACK
 and change one's selection.
 
 NOW, AN EXTRA SUMMARY DIALOGUE BOX (just as you do for the printer or
 Xconfigurator): a summary of all selections made with an OPTION to EDIT
 these selections or to go BACK and change them.
 
 Then, and only then, should a user be thrown into the irreversible
 process of downloading the packages themselves.
 
 I implore you, heed my example and I am sure that of (tens) of thousands
 of others. The installation process is TERRIFYING enough. Think of the
 user. That's your motto: "a user-friendly OS". Protect the user. Don't
 expose him/her to unbearable stress and anxiety that are TOTALLY
 UNNECESSARY. Combining the two installation options as explained above
 to save a few bytes is EXTREMELY REGRESSIVE and extremely
 anxiety-inducing. You are one of the easiest Linux distro to install so
 far and, in my opinion and that of many others, the finest distro
 available. Don't mess it up with cost-cutting bullshit. Always look at
 it from the point of view of the user, especially the newbie or the
 ordinary user who is installing for the first time (and then