Re: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Sunday 28 Jul 2002 1:45 am, Tom Brinkman wrote: I admire your persistence to save the home an' hearth ;) First, IMO, current 9.0 KDE3.0.2 is much better than any of the available 'KDE3.x' upgrades for 8.x. As is Gnome2, so why try'n save the old 8.x shi.. err I mean stuff ? The 'stuff' that's moved from old to new is just .rc files and similar (kmailrc and so on); there's many hours of configuration in those. Certainly not any of the desktop icon themes, for example! Alastair - -- Alastair Scott (London, United Kingdom) http://www.unmetered.org.uk/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9Q51oXzGCRjP1DsMRAiBvAJ42eNJUMSZhFIHiquRI3mr4yiLMYACfYeY9 mnnckG60dF1YCa3HVIHHNPI= =Juwz -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
On Sunday July 28 2002 02:29 am, Alastair Scott wrote: On Sunday 28 Jul 2002 1:45 am, Tom Brinkman wrote: I admire your persistence to save the home an' hearth ;) First, IMO, current 9.0 KDE3.0.2 is much better than any of the available 'KDE3.x' upgrades for 8.x. As is Gnome2, so why try'n save the old 8.x shi.. err I mean stuff ? The 'stuff' that's moved from old to new is just .rc files and similar (kmailrc and so on); there's many hours of configuration in those. Certainly not any of the desktop icon themes, for example! Alastair In early June I saved a copy of 8.2's /home/tom to a storage partition and did a fresh install of 8.3/9.0 (the 6/6/02 'alpha' release). Immediately after the install, I copied the 8.2 /home backup into 9.0, which instantly broke the whole system. I sort'a knew it would ;) KDE wouldn't even start. Re-installed 9.0, and the first thing I did was copy in from backup, my /Mail dir. Then Kmail had all my saved, old to current emails and folders. In trying to copy in 8.2 kmailrc files (I saved the existing 9.0 rc files first), kmail broke. So I reinstated the 9.0 kmail rc files, and reconfigured the newer kmail version. It took a few minutes, not many hours. I had a similar experience with KNode, several others. All in all, copying in what I could from my /home backup, and reconfiguring everything I normally use, including installing a few apps that don't come with Mandrake took little more than an hour, maybe two at most. Granted I've had to do all this many times in the past with Mandrake version upgrades, so I pretty well know in advance, what will/won't work, what can be saved/what shouldn't be. A lot of this knowledge comes from lurking on the cooker mailing list. Since June, I've kept 9.0 current using 'urpmi --auto-select' on cooker mirrors. Occaisionally, some package upgrades will overrite a old config file. Sometimes configuration is moved, and the old config is obsolete (eg, ~/X11/fs/config for Gnome2 apps). The developers try'n hold this to a bare minimum, but sometimes it's neccessary. Which is just part of why a saved 8.2 /home won't work with 9.0. Other major reasons are the vast changes in libraries and gcc. So for example, stuff like flash, (Sun) java, and other 3rd party closed source stuff is mostly worthless. At least until they get around to upgrading their apps to the new gcc/libs. The vendors will have to, Mandrake can't do it without their source, or for legal reasons. Many cookers have reported some success with getting nvidia's src.rpms and other 3rd party stuff to rebuild on 9.0 using IGNORE_GCC_MISMATCH=1 on src.rpms. I haven't bothered. In the past week, cooker has moved from gcc 3.1.1 to 3.2, requiring that most all packages in 9.0 be completely rebuilt. Practically the whole distro. I can't upgrade with just a dialup, so I'm stuck with roughly 9.0b1 till I get 9.0beta2 CD's. When they come out, I already know a complete wipe and fresh install will be wise, if not just plain neccessary. So, much less 8.2 isn't compatible with 9.0, 9.0b1 isn't even compatible with 9.0b2. While an upgrade might be possible, it _would_ probly take many hours and lot'sa fixin. Easier an simpler just to wipe, re-install, and do a little reconfiguring, save from backup whatever's possible, re-do what isn't. I never could figure out any worthwhile purpose for desktop icons other than to clutter things up, any OS. The menu works just find for starting stuff, sometimes better. First thing always I do after a fresh install is to delete all /Desktop icons except for Trash, which I move so that the icon no longer appears. Takes a minute ; YMMV -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
On Sun, 2002-07-28 at 08:29, Tom Brinkman wrote: In early June I saved a copy of 8.2's /home/tom to a storage partition and did a fresh install of 8.3/9.0 (the 6/6/02 'alpha' release). Immediately after the install, I copied the 8.2 /home backup into 9.0, which instantly broke the whole system. I sort'a knew it would ;) KDE wouldn't even start. Re-installed 9.0, and the first thing I did was copy in from backup, my /Mail dir. Then Kmail had all my saved, old to current emails and folders. In trying to copy in 8.2 kmailrc files (I saved the existing 9.0 rc files first), kmail broke. So I reinstated the 9.0 kmail rc files, and reconfigured the newer kmail version. It took a few minutes, not many hours. I had a similar experience with KNode, several others. All in all, copying in what I could from my /home backup, and reconfiguring everything I normally use, including installing a few apps that don't come with Mandrake took little more than an hour, maybe two at most. Granted I've had to do all this many times in the past with Mandrake version upgrades, so I pretty well know in advance, what will/won't work, what can be saved/what shouldn't be. A lot of this knowledge comes from lurking on the cooker mailing list. Since June, I've kept 9.0 current using 'urpmi --auto-select' on cooker mirrors. Occaisionally, some package upgrades will overrite a old config file. Sometimes configuration is moved, and the old config is obsolete (eg, ~/X11/fs/config for Gnome2 apps). The developers try'n hold this to a bare minimum, but sometimes it's neccessary. Which is just part of why a saved 8.2 /home won't work with 9.0. Other major reasons are the vast changes in libraries and gcc. So for example, stuff like flash, (Sun) java, and other 3rd party closed source stuff is mostly worthless. At least until they get around to upgrading their apps to the new gcc/libs. The vendors will have to, Mandrake can't do it without their source, or for legal reasons. Many cookers have reported some success with getting nvidia's src.rpms and other 3rd party stuff to rebuild on 9.0 using IGNORE_GCC_MISMATCH=1 on src.rpms. I haven't bothered. In the past week, cooker has moved from gcc 3.1.1 to 3.2, requiring that most all packages in 9.0 be completely rebuilt. Practically the whole distro. I can't upgrade with just a dialup, so I'm stuck with roughly 9.0b1 till I get 9.0beta2 CD's. When they come out, I already know a complete wipe and fresh install will be wise, if not just plain neccessary. So, much less 8.2 isn't compatible with 9.0, 9.0b1 isn't even compatible with 9.0b2. While an upgrade might be possible, it _would_ probly take many hours and lot'sa fixin. Easier an simpler just to wipe, re-install, and do a little reconfiguring, save from backup whatever's possible, re-do what isn't. I never could figure out any worthwhile purpose for desktop icons other than to clutter things up, any OS. The menu works just find for starting stuff, sometimes better. First thing always I do after a fresh install is to delete all /Desktop icons except for Trash, which I move so that the icon no longer appears. Takes a minute ; YMMV -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Well, I disagree about having to reinstall. I've kept cooker current through urpmi (and the occasional 'rpm -Uvh --no-deps'--only 3 packages needed it when the change to perl5.8 came) since 8.1. You have to keep an eye on rpm messages like .rpmnew/.rpmsave files, but it's not that hard. It's definitely not for someone who doesn't like using terminals. I found it's the GUI stuff that breaks most often. -- /curtis Mandrake Linux 9.0 (cooker) Kernel Version 2.4.18-21mdk Uptime 21 hours 34 minutes Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
I ask about the bugs in the beta then had to leave town for a few days but did have time to wonder since I,m useing 8.2 can I do a upgrade booting from the CD-ROM are is it better to do a clean install. JOE Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
IMO.. I think doing a clean fresh install would be the better way to go.. :) Kenneth Spress [EMAIL PROTECTED] == This is not a spam! Your are receiving this email either because, you have sent me an email in the past, or you are on a list of marketers requesting information. If this is not the case, PLEASE accept my sincerest apologies and reply with remove in the subject field. I will remove your name immediately! == Registered user #252546 with the Linux Counter Get Your Box Counted http://counter.li.org Listen to us every Sunday at 11:00 am EST at: http://www.alternacast.com EZHelp, You More Show Info http://learn.at/ezhelp AIM: keniswhoiam Yahoo: kspress MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 19870108 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mandrake [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 11:02 AM Subject: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta I ask about the bugs in the beta then had to leave town for a few days but did have time to wonder since I,m useing 8.2 can I do a upgrade booting from the CD-ROM are is it better to do a clean install. JOE Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
On Saturday July 27 2002 10:02 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I ask about the bugs in the beta then had to leave town for a few days but did have time to wonder since I,m useing 8.2 can I do a upgrade booting from the CD-ROM are is it better to do a clean install. JOE A fresh install is always the better option, often less time consumming and better results than a (theoretically maybe possible) upgrade. 'Sides, it's probly time to do some house cleanin anyhow ;) Cooker/9.0 is very dynamic now (ie, beta2 [current cooker] isn't compatible with 9.0beta1). Many gcc (- 3.2) and lib changes. I'd say only a fresh install is feasible. Further, It'sME that savin your 8.2 /home dir as is, won't suffice either. You'll probly need to save important stuff (ie, /Mail, some other ./xxx and configs for apps like KNode, Pan, stuff like that), personal stuff. Then move into your new /home incrementally, testing as you go. Many 3rd party OSS apps aren't ready for gcc3.x, so you'll probly need to get fresh versions and recompile. OTOH, the new versions for many of those apps are on the beta1 CD's, so NBD there. Closed-source stuff, proprietary 3rd party apps and drivers will most likely also fail (eg, flash, java, nvidia, SO, etc.). Some of those are being, or can be rebuilt for the newer distros tho. Specially since it's not just Mandrake that's quickly moving to newer kernels, libs, gcc, and so on. As to bugs, there's always some, but IME even early June alpha's of 9.0 are even better than 8.2 as released, and 8.2 was a solid release. -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Saturday 27 Jul 2002 7:55 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: A fresh install is always the better option, often less time consumming and better results than a (theoretically maybe possible) upgrade. 'Sides, it's probly time to do some house cleanin anyhow ;) Cooker/9.0 is very dynamic now (ie, beta2 [current cooker] isn't compatible with 9.0beta1). Many gcc (- 3.2) and lib changes. I'd say only a fresh install is feasible. Further, It'sME that savin your 8.2 /home dir as is, won't suffice either. You'll probly need to save important stuff (ie, /Mail, some other ./xxx and configs for apps like KNode, Pan, stuff like that), personal stuff. Then move into your new /home incrementally, testing as you go. Many 3rd party OSS apps aren't ready for gcc3.x, so you'll probly need to get fresh versions and recompile. OTOH, the new versions for many of those apps are on the beta1 CD's, so NBD there. Closed-source stuff, proprietary 3rd party apps and drivers will most likely also fail (eg, flash, java, nvidia, SO, etc.). Some of those are being, or can be rebuilt for the newer distros tho. Specially since it's not just Mandrake that's quickly moving to newer kernels, libs, gcc, and so on. As to bugs, there's always some, but IME even early June alpha's of 9.0 are even better than 8.2 as released, and 8.2 was a solid release. What I did was: - - reboot to the command line and move .kde and .kde3 to .kde_82 and .kde3_82 - - keep everything else in /home unchanged and unmoved - - put the first CD in the drive, reboot and install 9.0 beta 1, formatting / and /swap but not /home - - once installed boot to Gnome 2 and move things from .kde3_82 into .kde3 ad lib - - then reboot to KDE 3. Because KDE 3 is now the default version, so has moved from /opt as installed with 8.2, I think trying to upgrade while keeping .kde and .kde3 intact is too risky (possibility of lots of paths in configuration files breaking) ... Alastair - -- Alastair Scott (London, United Kingdom) http://www.unmetered.org.uk/ -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE9QvEdXzGCRjP1DsMRAiyTAJ0cFlBbp9oKpLdqQeORXvf1G5dVlwCfRsP6 UXQu+0hY48jG4gXe07mcoKs= =7IqE -END PGP SIGNATURE- Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: [newbie] upgradeing to 9.0 beta
On Saturday July 27 2002 02:14 pm, Alastair Scott wrote: On Saturday 27 Jul 2002 7:55 pm, Tom Brinkman wrote: Cooker/9.0 is very dynamic now (ie, beta2 [current cooker] isn't compatible with 9.0beta1). Many gcc (- 3.2) and lib changes. I'd say only a fresh install is feasible. Further, It'sME that savin What I did was: - - reboot to the command line and move .kde and .kde3 to .kde_82 and .kde3_82 - - keep everything else in /home unchanged and unmoved Well, I'm one the idiots (you'll find many like me who are also Mandrake cooker desktop users/active particpants, some developers) who install to one big ol' / , and backup our /home directory every once'nwhile to a separate out'a the way partition. Then after a complete fresh install (which includes wiping /home), we can recover (ie, copy in) old settings, files, configs, personal stuff and such ... a little at a time, making sure things don't break, taking note of that which inevitably does. You're correct in that 9.0 kde is now in /.kde and not /.kde3 or /opt/kdewhatever, so a separate and saved /home partition from 8.x will most likely break a 9.0 install in many ways, specially a 8.x version 'upgraded' to kde3 from where ever. Hell's bells, a saved /home from one 9.0 release (ie, current cooker) to the next can cause problems. - - put the first CD in the drive, reboot and install 9.0 beta 1, formatting / and /swap but not /home - - once installed boot to Gnome 2 and move things from .kde3_82 into .kde3 ad lib - - then reboot to KDE 3. I admire your persistence to save the home an' hearth ;) First, IMO, current 9.0 KDE3.0.2 is much better than any of the available 'KDE3.x' upgrades for 8.x. As is Gnome2, so why try'n save the old 8.x shi.. err I mean stuff ? Because KDE 3 is now the default version, so has moved from /opt as installed with 8.2, I think trying to upgrade while keeping .kde and .kde3 intact is too risky (possibility of lots of paths in configuration files breaking) ... Alastair You make my point for me Alastair. Just where are .kde* dirs located, if not under /home? So, 'A fresh install including a new /home is always the better option, often less time consumming and better results than a (theoretically maybe possible) upgrade. 'Sides, it's probly time to do some house cleanin anyhow ;)' The persistent idea of tryin to maintain a stale old cruffty /home partition or directory is an idea as ... well as persistent as Linux needs to take over the desktop. I don't understand the thinkin ;) All I can ask is ... why? Not practical. Specially since all of 9.0 is now built against newer libs, gcc 3.2, etc., as are the included and contrib apps than even beta1 was (which is 3.1.1), . much less any old cruffty 8.x install (gcc 2.9.x, older glibc, kernel, etc.). BUT, original question was upgrade or fresh install 9.0b1? IMO, a complete fresh install including /home. !period! and as I've often opined, if you care to venture forward, y'all should also _lurk_ (don't kibitz, it's not for support or general discussion) on the cooker mailing list (change log list too). At least read the current archives. Then I'd encourage anyone to 'come along and sing the song an' join the jamborree' ;) M..I..C .. K...D...E... BTW, cheap 9.0 CD's http://www.opensoars.com/?page=shop/flypageproduct_id=73 -- Tom Brinkman Corpus Christi, Texas Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
