Re: [newbie] CrossoverWine for Office NOW; A Good Thing

2002-04-01 Thread Robert Gray

On Sunday 31 March 2002 10:59 am, you wrote:
 John,
 This fundamentalistic answer is not the solution. We can't wine a direct
 fight to windows! is to powerfull and has lots and lots of money. The
 only way is wining small battles. For example, I started to learn linux
 two years ago, I use it giving my clases at the University with
 startoffice presentations; results:
 a) more than 300 student now know that there are alternatives to
 windows.
 b) All the researchers and grants of my laboratory know linux and we
 have a server runing Mandrake. Most of them have linux in their home
 computers.
 c) Some studend of secondary school, that are in the same class of my
 dougther know that linux exist and one of them has installed linux
 mandrake 8.2 at home under my advertisment.
 d) A private teacher of my doughter has installed mandrake 8.2, I gave
 him a copy and I am helping him; he is planning to install Mandrake 8.2
 as a server in the Secondary School when I teaches.

 Results: one new linux user (my ^_^) more than 20 new users; I hope
 those new users will help to create more new users

 This is the way, slow, step by step, without fighting directly windows
 (I have some computers with both system, for example for packages I
 can't still run under linux or for those games my children like to
 play). But If it is runing under linux or there are alternative packages
 for linux, I don't start windows.

 Francisco Alcaraz
 Murcia (Spain)

Hi 

I think both of your lines of thought are not quite contiguous.

Francisco, this is precisely what John is proposing, a word of mouth 
whispering campaign.

John,  advertising works in a marketplace, there is no marketplace for Linux  
on the individual desktop, it is free. At the server level most corporate IT 
people know vastly more than Microsoft's marketing agencies about their work. 
Those people currently running Linux,Unix  systems in a corporate environment 
would probably find work elsewhere if forced to use Windows for their 
fundamental infrastructure and thanks to the community they are growing in 
number. At this level Microsoft will have to produce a better and cheaper 
product to have a long term hope of competing. 

Regards

Rob





Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com



Re: [newbie] CrossoverWine for Office NOW; A Good Thing

2002-03-31 Thread Robert Gray

On Sunday 31 March 2002 10:59 am, you wrote:
 John,
 This fundamentalistic answer is not the solution. We can't wine a direct
 fight to windows! is to powerfull and has lots and lots of money. The
 only way is wining small battles. For example, I started to learn linux
 two years ago, I use it giving my clases at the University with
 startoffice presentations; results:
 a) more than 300 student now know that there are alternatives to
 windows.
 b) All the researchers and grants of my laboratory know linux and we
 have a server runing Mandrake. Most of them have linux in their home
 computers.
 c) Some studend of secondary school, that are in the same class of my
 dougther know that linux exist and one of them has installed linux
 mandrake 8.2 at home under my advertisment.
 d) A private teacher of my doughter has installed mandrake 8.2, I gave
 him a copy and I am helping him; he is planning to install Mandrake 8.2
 as a server in the Secondary School when I teaches.

 Results: one new linux user (my ^_^) more than 20 new users; I hope
 those new users will help to create more new users

 This is the way, slow, step by step, without fighting directly windows
 (I have some computers with both system, for example for packages I
 can't still run under linux or for those games my children like to
 play). But If it is runing under linux or there are alternative packages
 for linux, I don't start windows.

 Francisco Alcaraz
 Murcia (Spain)

Hi 

I think both of your lines of thought are not quite contiguous.

Francisco, this is precisely what John is proposing, a word of mouth 
whispering campaign.

John,  advertising works in a marketplace, there is no marketplace for Linux  
on the individual desktop, it is free. At the server level most corporate IT 
people know vastly more than Microsoft's marketing agencies about their work. 
Those people currently running Linux,Unix  systems in a corporate environment 
would probably find work elsewhere if forced to use Windows for their 
fundamental infrastructure and thanks to the community they are growing in 
number. At this level Microsoft will have to produce a better and cheaper 
product to have a long term hope of competing. 

Regards

Rob





Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? 
Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com



Re: [newbie] CrossoverWine for Office NOW; A Good Thing

2002-03-30 Thread john rigby

Hi Poogle and folks,

A substantial group of interested parties ( according to me it is a
cabal - a pricefixing, anti-competitive group and thus illegal if Linux
people did it) are going to arrange a final solution for  *nix/nux.
As I have kept saying and being attacked for, on this and other Sites:
MARKETING IS KING.
PROPAGANDA IN THE HANDS OF AN EXPERT CAN AND WILL KILL ANYTHING - PEOPLE,
IDEAS, COMPETITION.

I give you some examples:
Microsoft.
NAZI Germany
Apple Computer

The only defence against it is either a better propaganda programme or
strangely, word-of-mouth.
The actual product is virtually immaterial. The only thing that will count
is the *self-interest factor* in the pitch.

The Linux community/supporters have only one chance, one chance.
Put the word out about the Evil Empire and how it is after your money to
your *personal* contacts. YOU.
Forget entirely the social implications - that doesn't work - only in market
surveys.

Focus on conversion - a bit at a time. Like clever evangelist Religious
canvassers, QUIETLY non- combatively.
We could actually write a GREAT campaign of our own - we sure have the
ammunition!
We don't have the moolah either.
AND
UNFORTUNATELY we still don't have a simple, workable street solution.

So, of course it is a GREAT thing that Crossover is there!  It opens a giant
market that can easily be weaned away from the other side.
Now if only *I* could get Linux to *usefully* load on any of my
systems..

There *IS* a gigantic and very professional project under way to bury
*nix/nux  ( that's even the insider name for it, very clever, get it??
Punchy, memorable, appealing.)
I professionally think, sadly, that it will probably work very well and
nix/nux will be permanently relegated to the position of  Apple ( 5%-10% of
the market) if it ever gets that far.

The only thing that could even wreck that percentage entirely is the
smartass kids showing off their code-sucking superiority as is typical in
the Linux world. This fixation with doing everything the macho way - the
hard way in Terminal mode ( very apt name ). Like people ranting about real
men use Notepad to write code in ( wimmin of course, don't count).  :-)

You want to help the Cause?

1. Write to Newsgroups OUTSIDE of Linux. ( You would be surprised what is
happening out in the world) SUBTLY remind everyone via your signature lines:
*I'm* safe from the virus plague - I use Linux.
Q:  How come 9 out of 10 Real Big Servers in the world are Unix/Linux based?
A: They don't fall down a lot. And are a LOT cheaper to run..
For the fanatics:
Certified 100% Microsoft product free! No viruses!
Shane has a million of 'em.

2. Let everyone YOU know that you found it such a good thing to **save so
much money HONESTLY**  *and* not to be spied on any more, that you are happy
to help any of your friends escape the financial trap.

I have decided that the only way I see it working at all is the buddy system
for starters. THEN User Support Groups.
I was unable to find another person in all my contacts who on their own
decided to try Linux.  I am the only one.
Each was prompted by a friend/contact. Not a single one by any form of
advertising.

The process has to be disciplined:
1. Convert the existing user base.  Codeweaver now looks a great thing!  No,
it won't hurt KDE developers or others, competition is a good thing and look
around - even better won't win. Just be good as and cheaper/EASIER. EASIER
is the key. Not more functions. Easier.

2. Get the NEW starters. But don't kid ourselves - there is nothing as good
as MS Office 97 yet.  Same as people STILL use Outlook Express. It *is*
easier to use!
But if they have never seen it, and you help them set up things like filters
and family group, in other words a useful basic
install

John
Dreaming in paradise? What would there be to dream about in Paradise? A
challenge.
 Kilneth

- Original Message -
From: poogle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, March 29, 2002 7:56 AM
Subject: [newbie] CrossoverWine for Office


 Probably start another lengthy thread here but I see that Codeweavers now
 have a crossover that allows MS Office (including Outlook partly) to run
 under Linux.
 I can't decide whether this is a good thing or not, on the one hand it
blows
 away a lot of the arguments against migrating an office environment to
Linux
 but on the other hand it could harm the excellent work done by the
developers
 of KOffice, Gnumeric, Abiword and similar projects.
 Personally I would find it hard to put an Office CD into the tray and
install
 it into Mandrake, just doesn't seem right somehow

 --
 Poogle. Derby,England  Linux MDK 8.2 with





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