Re: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC (2).
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:28:41 +0700, Brian Durant [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, I strongly recommend an AMD-based system. You can get better bang-for-buck that way. Someone else on the list recommended a Soyo Dragon motherboard. I second that recommendation. It has built-in sound and ethernet that apparently works very well in GNU/Linux. Thanks Sridhar, Here is what my tech guy says about AMD: Pentium 4 is more stable in long term usage. The processor is cooler then AMD. If the fan fail then the processor is save because there is a protection for overheat damage. AMDs do run hotter, and the older ones don't have thermal protection. I think that's been fixed in the Athlon XP 1800+ and beyond. I don't think this is a cause to worry, though. AMD have 25% of the CPU market (and rising) for a reason. AMD Athlon maybe faster then P4 (in some cases). But most problem I find when work with Athlon is usualy processor broken, because in longterm usage the fan is usually getting weak and it cause the processor not working very well. I have heard anecdotes about this, but I can't find any proof that AMD processors are any less reliable than Intel ones. If it bothers you that much, you should probably spend a little extra on a good fan/heatsink combo. They don't cost much nowadays, and they're a good thing to have no matter what chip you've got. AMD Athlon XP 1800 is shown on bios is 1.5GHz not 1.8GHz, but AMD claims that the speed is 1.8GHz. No, that is wrong. If you read AMD's documentation, it usually states the proper speed of the processor somewhere (in this case, 1500MHz). The 1800+ model number (it is _not_ the MHz speed) means this is as fast or faster than a Pentium 4 going at 1800MHz. And they're right: look at any reputable hardware site (e.g. http://tomshardware.com and http://anandtech.com), and you'll see an Athlon XP 1800+ knocking the socks off a Pentium 4 2GHz in almost every test. Besides, how can you compare MHz between different chip types? The answer is you can't. MHz is not an indication of real-world performance, it is simply clock speed. What is important is what you do with this clock speed. The Pentium 4 is a very inefficient chip when it comes to clock cycles: Intel artificially raise their MHz rating simply to fool people who buy into the so-called MegaHertz Myth. Apple has a good page on this at http://www.apple.com/g4/myth/. If you have Quicktime (only really possible on GNU/Linux with the CodeWeavers Crossover plug-in), you can watch a very informative video explaining the subject. Why does the Itanium, Intel's next generation processor, run at 'only' 800MHZ when the Pentium 4 runs at 2.2GHz? Why does the Sun UltraSparc III top out at around 1GHz? Why does your average Cray CPU run at 'only' 300MHz? Because they are more efficient with their clock cycles than the Pentium 4. The same goes for the Athlon. Now, I don't know a lot about this, as I say, this will be my first PC. It does seem to be that the price for an AMD Athlon XP 1800 is about $US 50 more than for an Intel P4 1.6GHz at the moment in Indonesia. As to reliability and heat issues, someone please enlighten me. AMD processors have for quite some time been the CPU brand-of-choice for PC enthusiasts. These people actually know what they're doing, as opposed to your average consumer who buys from whatever company advertises more (i.e. Intel). According to several overclocking sites I've visited, the Athlon overclocks quite well. This is the ultimate test for any CPU, since it imposes the most physical stress (particularly heat). Any CPU that can operate reliably when overclocked should be super-stable when running at its proper speed. -- Sridhar Dhanapalan Did I mention my belief in the true meaning of intelligence? Intelligence is the ability to avoid doing work, yet get the work done. Lazy programmers are the best programmers. Think Tom Sawyer painting the fence. That's intelligence. Requiring almost no effort is a big plus in my book. It's the clever programmer I'm afraid of. The one who isn't afraid of generating complexity, because he has a Plan (capital P), and he knows he can work out the details later. -- Linus Torvalds Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC (2).
The 1800+ model number (it is _not_ the MHz speed) means this is as fast or faster than a Pentium 4 going at 1800MHz. I think the PR rating is the equivalent speed compared to the Thunderbird based Athlons (the ones that went up to 1.4GHz. I think they may get into hot water if they compared them directly to the P4it just happens that they do compete very well :) Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
RE: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC (2).
AMD were getting peeved because Intel kept claiming that faster processors (measured in MHZ) are the be all and end all of everything, and using that as a selling point of the P4.. what they didn't tell you, is that even a PIII of an equiv clock speed is faster then a P4, because Intel didn't want it made obvious, they didn't release a P4 at 1gig, or 1.2gig, and they didn't make a PIII at 1.4gig.. but they did make a PIII 1.2, and that 1.2 is faster then a 1.6gig P4.. which is why we are not likely to see more PIII's.. I have had an AMD XP1800+ running in a room with an ambient temp of around 35degrees Celcious.. and it runs just fine. (uptime of 4 months currently.) it is a fairly loaded machine, runs everything from apache, alot of perl cgi, firewall's, mail server, mail virus scanning.. and heaps of other stuff, and it powers along.. Once concession I made was to put a 7500 rpm coper base heat sink on the CPU, and its been fine ever since.. (runs rather cool actually) and it cost me only about 15USD to buy the fan. Testing shows, that the 1900XP, is just about the same speed as a 2.2 gig Northwood P4 (the latest one.) even though the AMD is only running at 1600mhz. and AMD just released the 2000+, which would obviously be faster again.. There are a few things to keep in mind.. the P4, is almost a glorified seriously overclocked 486 in many cases.,, it relies on brut mhz to achieve its speed, it has a extremely simplified architecture, which is why it reaches hight MHZ so much easier then the AMD and the PIII. also, you might keep this in mind as well.. The difference between a P4 2gig and a 2.2gig is around only 5%, even though its 200mhz faster.. the differnce between a AMD XP1600+ and the 1800+ is close to 15% and if you look at the actual clock speed, its alot less then 200mhz difference between the two.. so the higher up the clockspeed the AMD's go, the further ahead they will get on the P4... I use the XP1800+ on a MSI KT266A chipset motherboard with DDR SDRAM and it was the best purchase I have ever made.. (I will be upgrading it to the XP2000+ soon, (unless they release a faster one, in which case I will get that.) Go the AMD if you can, you won't regret it.. (Also, the XP's run much cooler then the thunderbirds did, I know that for a fact as the system I have with the XP in it, had a 1.4 Thunderbird in it before, and it ran hotter, (but not hugely so.) Oh, one other thing, for the first time, the XP's have in CPU temperature monitor, so the protection is not limited to P4 anymore. In your case, the XP1800, would be about 10-20% faster then a P4 1.6 gig, so its your money. One last tip, AMD don't change CPU sockets anywhere near as much as intel, so Socket A (for amd) will most likely be used for a while now. Intel have released 3 or more different sockets for the P4 now, so in 3 months time, you want to upgrade, you may have to get a new Motherboard as well.. which is more money down the tubes.. If you decide to get a P4 after all, try to get a northwood, as they have the current new type CPU socket, and if you get a 1.6 gig, you won't be able to upgrade it to a 2.2 or above later without replacing the mainboard.. hope all that helps.. rgds Frank -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Brian Durant Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2002 3:29 PM To: Newbie Mandrake Subject: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC (2). Again, I strongly recommend an AMD-based system. You can get better bang-for-buck that way. Someone else on the list recommended a Soyo Dragon motherboard. I second that recommendation. It has built-in sound and ethernet that apparently works very well in GNU/Linux. Thanks Sridhar, Here is what my tech guy says about AMD: Pentium 4 is more stable in long term usage. The processor is cooler then AMD. If the fan fail then the processor is save because there is a protection for overheat damage. AMD Athlon maybe faster then P4 (in some cases). But most problem I find when work with Athlon is usualy processor broken, because in longterm usage the fan is usually getting weak and it cause the processor not working very well. AMD Athlon XP 1800 is shown on bios is 1.5GHz not 1.8GHz, but AMD claims that the speed is 1.8GHz. Now, I don't know a lot about this, as I say, this will be my first PC. It does seem to be that the price for an AMD Athlon XP 1800 is about $US 50 more than for an Intel P4 1.6GHz at the moment in Indonesia. As to reliability and heat issues, someone please enlighten me. Cheers, Brian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC (2).
no proof either, but i do know i burned up 3 of their cpus in the early k-6 and before that models. i also know i have overclocked the 750 i have now and run it non-stop with a fair load. problem solved if you ask me, but then nobody did. :-) On Thursday 07 February 2002 04:56, you spoke unto me thusly: I have heard anecdotes about this, but I can't find any proof that AMD processors are any less reliable than Intel ones. If it bothers you that much, you should probably spend a little extra on a good fan/heatsink combo. They don't cost much nowadays, and they're a good thing to have no matter what chip you've got. -- I'm not in favor of senseless Micro$oft bashing. I'm in favor of bashing Micro$oft senseless. shane registered linux user @ http://counter.li.org/ http://shentzu.home.mindspring.com/ Proud to be a DMOZ editor since 10-98 http://dmoz.org cause humans do it better! Link different. Profile at: http://dmoz.org/profiles/shen.html Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC.
very nice - I like ; ) skinky -- oxymoron: Microsoft Works On Thursday 07 February 2002 11:51, Roger Sherman wrote: I just put together a new PC about three days ago, with an AMD XP1800 cpu and an Abit KG7 motherboard. It rocks pretty hard... Also under the hood (in case you care) 512meg DDR RAM (as stated, so cheap right now, why not? And the KG7 will support up to 4 gig) ATI Radeon AIW 32mg vid card Soundblaster Live! 5.1 Platinum w/Live!Drive Plextor 16x10x40A CD-RW 60.5 gig 7200 rpm IDE HD (maxtor) 40 gig 7200 rpm IDE HD (maxtor) Linksys NIC card Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC.
check that chip, i always have trouble with onboard anything.. People seem to really love the Soyo Dragon+. It has onboard sound, and 10/100 ethernet, but seems to work well with Linux. It also comes with two front-side usb ports, some silicone for the heatsink, optical audio ports, etc. A good buy in my opinion. why the zip? just curious, i find my cd rewritable much more useful than i ever found the zip to be, but that is just me. cd-r's and cd-rw's are by far the cheapest backup medium right now. CD-R's are worth something like $.33 each, and they hold 650-700 MB. Very convenient since they can be read by all computers. Very easy to burn cd's in Linux btw, in case you were wondering. - Paul Rodriguez _ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC.
On Wed, 6 Feb 2002, Brian Durant wrote: Hi Shane, My comments follow: a few cents of worth... go AMD, get more speed, pay less. Any suggestions as to an AMD configuration, motherboard, etc? I am new at this 8-) I just put together a new PC about three days ago, with an AMD XP1800 cpu and an Abit KG7 motherboard. It rocks pretty hard... Also under the hood (in case you care) 512meg DDR RAM (as stated, so cheap right now, why not? And the KG7 will support up to 4 gig) ATI Radeon AIW 32mg vid card Soundblaster Live! 5.1 Platinum w/Live!Drive Plextor 16x10x40A CD-RW 60.5 gig 7200 rpm IDE HD (maxtor) 40 gig 7200 rpm IDE HD (maxtor) Linksys NIC card blah blah blah. Hope that helps...good luck with the new box! you can never have enough RAM, spend the money saved above here. ;-) OK check that chip, i always have trouble with onboard anything.. This would also fall under an AMD configuration. Suggestions ayone??? why the zip? just curious, i find my cd rewritable much more useful than i ever found the zip to be, but that is just me. Zip is just easy for me at this point, plus it is a small capacity media that I view more as an alternative to a floppy than competition for CDRW or a DVD configuration. One of these days (hopefully) I will learn how to burn CD's. well depends on what you want, but my only problem with the handspring is that kpilot is not yet USB. Well, a lot of this has to do with third party conduits. I sometimes use the Visor as an alternative to a laptop. Therefore, I am dependent on the e-mail programs in the Palm OS that have conduits that can transfer existing e-mails gathered on the road, that I need to sync via a conduit to my desktop. The same goes for creating text, psreadsheets, etc. Maybe when the Sharp Zarus or another Linux PDA gains mass popularity, this will not be as much of a problem for me, but at this time it is. Cheers, Brian Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
Re: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC.
On 6 Feb 2002, Paul [ISO-8859-1] RodrÃguez wrote: cd-r's and cd-rw's are by far the cheapest backup medium right now. CD-R's are worth something like $.33 each, and they hold 650-700 MB. Very convenient since they can be read by all computers. Very easy to burn cd's in Linux btw, in case you were wondering. Yah, especially 8.1! It's a cd burning machine! Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
[OT] application/ms-tnef? (was :Re: Re(2): [newbie] Building a PC.)
On Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:52:48 +0800 Roger Sherman [EMAIL PROTECTED] revealed these words to me: This message uses a character set that is not supported by the Internet Service. To view the original message content, open the attached message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it using a viewer that can display the original character set. hey, what's your mailer (im guessing outlook) and what is ms-tnef anyway? html mails are better than taht one as i can view those with a browser. ;-) ciao! -- Programming, an artform that fights back. = Anuerin G. Diaz Design Engineer Millennium Software, Incorporated 2305 B West Tower, Philippines Stocks Exchange Center, Exchange Road, Ortigas Center, Pasig City Tel# 638-3070 loc. 72 Fax# 638-3079 = Want to buy your Pack or Services from MandrakeSoft? Go to http://www.mandrakestore.com
