Re: [nlug] Choosing Distro

2022-08-24 Thread Csaba Toth 
Our mileage varies greatly. Just this week I'm installing a new laptop. My
stance is that I never want to do a dist upgrade and getting stuck with old
packages for years. I want to get updates in small little bytes at a time,
so I was loogin for rolling distros. I've been rolling with Devuan (ceres /
daedalus = equivalent to sid) for the last ~5+ years, and unfortunately I'm
succumbing to the systemd cancer this time and giving a try to Debian Sid.
I like the concept of having things out of the box, so for example I was
rolling with Ubuntu Studio before Devuan, it was Xfce based and a lot of
software. I've tried siduction, because for some stupid reason Sid doesn't
have a live install CD, I cannot undertsaand why, whereas Siduction offers
things out of the box, comes with Xfce choice and also doesn't want to
force a swap partition on my SSD (unlike Sid installer).

My disdain for systemd is multi-fold: 1. The way bugs are treated even
upsets kernel developers, 2. Poettering's view of CVEs is a tell-tale sign
3. I've been through an unrecoverable server fault because a bad sector
happened in the f-ing binary prorprietary log area of systemd and it caused
the kernel to not boot, and we could even fix the file because it's binary.
Unbelievable, that was the straw that broke the camel's back for good for
me. UNIX had figured this out for how many decades: gz + logrotate and you
have both the advantages of text logs and compression! Unfortunately some
packages like snap depend on systemd, and systemd interleaves with the
whole architecture so much now (like a cancer metastasis) that I cannot
install snap on Devuan. Maybe one day. I'm not too much of a fan of having
two package management systems either (1. native dpkg / apt + 2. snapcraft
on top of that like Ubuntu is gravitating towards) + I want a rolling
distro so I went back to the roots: Debian. Then I can control more where I
want to leverage snap and mostly rely on native package manager system.

Out of the box distros take up more space, but nowhere near Windows: the
new laptop's new Windows 11 Home took up 72GB space (this included a ton of
vendor specific software though). I decided to finish the install so I can
perform a BIOS update because the new UEFI is so picky that 9 out of 10 USB
boot sticks don't boot. Anyways, now the WIndows is cloned and nuked. I
wish I could buy that laptop with no OS for $100 less (but that's just a
dream, I'm even happy I could find a candidate with Ryzen + Radeon, because
it's as rare as diamond dust and even if it's not Intel+nVidia). I was
researching laptops like System76, Purism, or Framework, but currently I'm
still using the highest performance laptops for software engineering tasks.
One day I'm craving Purism or one of the mentioned brands.

One more thing for Debian, Ubuntu, and anything with dpkg / apt: I've just
come across nala which I'll try. https://christitus.com/stop-using-apt/
I didn't have too many problems with apt per se, but I'll try nala.

The whole installation procedure is pretty preposterous BTW. Siduction was
not able to install grub at the end (saying it didn't have enough space, I
reused the ~380MB EFI partition of Windows - of course cleaned), I had to
chroot, weed out some EFI temporary variable dumps to make it succeed.
After reboot my user wasn't in the sudoers. The first apt upgrade had
conflicts, I resolved those and then it saw off the branch it was sitting
on: it had both lightdm and sddm installed, I needed to select (after a
research it seemed it's sddm, but then during the install it restarted
something which killed the GUI process tree. Then the DM didn't come after
reboot. I could have fixed it but I went for Sid. Sid had trouble either
mounting the EFI or the root partition as a part of the installation steps.
I had to babysit it and chroot yet again. I'm happy I can get through these
with 20+ years of Linux experience but this is very very far from getting
into the mainstream. Maybe Pop_OS! and other distros are more usable out of
the box, however in my case I needed the freshest kernel and cloning the
firmware git repo and installing newest firmware binaries manually + of
course update initramfs to get my laptop working (for basic functions such
as wifi, screen brightness and similar), and I'm not 100% out of the woods
yet.


On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 1:14 PM Paul Boniol  wrote:

> As previously noted, I've got some issues with my current Linux desktop /
> home media server. I had been going with a Ubuntu based distro because I
> used to use MythTV, and there used to be Mythbuntu that had it largely
> ready to go. (FYI once you had MythTV working, there were many posts
> telling of woes if you ever upgraded.)
>
> Now that I'm looking at doing a fresh install, and no longer use MythTV, I
> don't think there is any influence to remain with a Ubuntu based distro.
>
> I've been thinking about going back to an RPM based distro might be nice,
> because apt can't tell you what processe

Re: [nlug] Choosing Distro

2022-08-24 Thread Howard White 

Paul,

Yes, there is a useful utility in RHEL distros called 'needs-restarting' 
that is in the 'yum-utils' package.  The analog in Ubuntu is to look in 
the /var/run directory and look for things named 'reboot-required,' 
specifically the file 'reboot-required.pkgs'.  I even wrote a Nagios 
test to look for /var/run/reboot-required.


Howard

On 8/24/22 15:14, Paul Boniol wrote:
As previously noted, I've got some issues with my current Linux desktop 
/ home media server. I had been going with a Ubuntu based distro because 
I used to use MythTV, and there used to be Mythbuntu that had it largely 
ready to go. (FYI once you had MythTV working, there were many posts 
telling of woes if you ever upgraded.)


Now that I'm looking at doing a fresh install, and no longer use MythTV, 
I don't think there is any influence to remain with a Ubuntu based distro.

H
I've been thinking about going back to an RPM based distro might be 
nice, because apt can't tell you what processes need to be restarted 
after a lib update. Though I do appreciate the Ubuntu LTS system where 
I'm not forced to upgrade every couple of years to continue getting 
updates. (And have no experience with rolling upgrade systems, e.g. 
Tumbleweed from openSUSE which was new before I got into MythTV.)


Anyone care to share their thoughts on the current distro landscape?

Paul

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[nlug] Choosing Distro

2022-08-24 Thread Paul Boniol 
As previously noted, I've got some issues with my current Linux desktop /
home media server. I had been going with a Ubuntu based distro because I
used to use MythTV, and there used to be Mythbuntu that had it largely
ready to go. (FYI once you had MythTV working, there were many posts
telling of woes if you ever upgraded.)

Now that I'm looking at doing a fresh install, and no longer use MythTV, I
don't think there is any influence to remain with a Ubuntu based distro.

I've been thinking about going back to an RPM based distro might be nice,
because apt can't tell you what processes need to be restarted after a lib
update. Though I do appreciate the Ubuntu LTS system where I'm not forced
to upgrade every couple of years to continue getting updates. (And have no
experience with rolling upgrade systems, e.g. Tumbleweed from openSUSE
which was new before I got into MythTV.)

Anyone care to share their thoughts on the current distro landscape?

Paul

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Re: [nlug] [SOLVED] Re: DNF certificates for Rocky 8.6

2022-08-24 Thread John R. Dennison 
On Sun, Aug 21, 2022 at 05:30:00PM -0700, Csaba Toth wrote:
> Maybe if you are an operator at the secret uranium enrichment plant in
> Nathanz Iran and you want an air gap for fortification, then you don't want
> networking (even in that case the Stuxnet / Olympic Games will jump the air
> gap, but that's another story). In any other case you want networking. I'm
> all for security by default, but I think in this case the default off is
> silly.


If you install via a network install method the setting defaults to on
otherwise it defaults to off.






John
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Never, never be afraid to do what's right, especially if the well-being of
a person or animal is at stake.  Society's punishments are small compared
to the wounds we inflict on our soul when we look the other way.

-- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968), civil-rights leader

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Re: [nlug] DNF certificates for Rocky 8.6

2022-08-24 Thread Kent Perrier 
No need to re-install.

On Wed, Aug 24, 2022 at 8:24 AM Greg Donald  wrote:

> On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 10:03 AM Tilghman Lesher 
> wrote:
> > That's not beyond the license terms.  They say that you can use the
> > developer license on up to 16 machines, which include "small
> > production servers".  They don't exactly specify what "small" means in
> > this regard:
> >
> > "The use cases for Red Hat Enterprise Linux have been expanded in the
> > Red Hat Developer Subscription for Individuals. The Red Hat Developer
> > Subscription for Individuals is a single subscription, which allows
> > the user to install Red Hat Enterprise Linux on a maximum of 16
> > systems, physical or virtual, regardless of system facts and size.
> > Those 16 nodes may be used by the individual developer for demos,
> > prototyping, QA, small production uses, and cloud access."
> >
> > The frustrating part is that they require you to re-register your
> > system once a year, and if you don't, updates fail with a cryptic
> > message.
>
> Does this also mean a re-install once per year?  Or do you get to keep
> going with the same install once you re-register?
>
>
> --
> Greg Donald
>
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Re: [nlug] DNF certificates for Rocky 8.6

2022-08-24 Thread Greg Donald 
On Fri, Aug 19, 2022 at 10:03 AM Tilghman Lesher  wrote:
> That's not beyond the license terms.  They say that you can use the
> developer license on up to 16 machines, which include "small
> production servers".  They don't exactly specify what "small" means in
> this regard:
>
> "The use cases for Red Hat Enterprise Linux have been expanded in the
> Red Hat Developer Subscription for Individuals. The Red Hat Developer
> Subscription for Individuals is a single subscription, which allows
> the user to install Red Hat Enterprise Linux on a maximum of 16
> systems, physical or virtual, regardless of system facts and size.
> Those 16 nodes may be used by the individual developer for demos,
> prototyping, QA, small production uses, and cloud access."
>
> The frustrating part is that they require you to re-register your
> system once a year, and if you don't, updates fail with a cryptic
> message.

Does this also mean a re-install once per year?  Or do you get to keep
going with the same install once you re-register?


-- 
Greg Donald

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