[nlug] Re: Linus: "Microsoft Hated is a Disease"
Very nice read. I have to agree with Linus entirely that Microsoft Hatred really is a disease. To be honest, blind Microsoft hatred and unproductive/unnecessary Microsoft-bashing are the two things that really put me off of the Linux community at times. Is Linux a better option for many, many things, over Microsoft? Sure, but that doesn't mean that Linux users should become zealots who take sick pleasure out of bashing Microsoft (a software vendor that they don't even use) at every possible opportunity. This is the same issue that I get frustrated at Apple about, too. Apple's entire marketing campaign for the past 5+ years has been centered on pointing out the (real/imagined) problems of their chief competitor, rather than actually talk about the *advantages* of their product. Mac OS X *has *advantages over Microsoft. Linux *has* advantages over Microsoft. Why not talk about the *real* advantages of your platform, rather than beat up on the other guy? My two cents... Chris On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Chris Faulkner wrote: > > Very interesting read > > http://www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus_Microsoft_Hatred_Is_a_Disease_ > > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[nlug] Re: Linus: "Microsoft Hated is a Disease"
I have to admit that my dislike of Micro$oft started in 1976 with Bill Gates 'open letter to computer hobbyists'. Prior to that I had been a M$ supporter. I had a computer that could run M$ 4KBasic at the time. I did not have it, I did not purchase it, either before or for sure not after the publication of that letter. ... I used machine, assembler, C, and 'open' basics that were available and being developed in that era. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists -- comments about 'the letter' http://www.digibarn.com/collections/newsletters/homebrew/V2_01/index.html -- read the letter here It set the tone for my understanding of M$ from then on. And given the actions of M$ over the years (purchasing companies with good products, rebranding/renaming them, terminating non-Intel/non-Windows versions of their products and removing them from the market. And other predatory techniques (that the EU has had the nerve to prosecute, and the USA has not). M$ could be branded a economic terrorist by some with reasonable substantiation. So do I feel sorry for M$? Not likely. They made their own PR and technological bed. They need no sympathy. I run some of their products, typically when developers have not come up with a reasonable alternative or they 'develop first for the mass market'. I even understand the developers perspective. Is any of this attitude because Apple, Linux, or anything else is better? No. All tools have their place. M$ like all software and hardware companies develop tools. Theirs is often priced competitively for the service it provides. If it was not, the market would go elsewhere. But I seen to keep haring the old saw: "if the only tool you have is a hammer, all problems look like nails". Other have a different opinion. ... Am I right? Probably not totally but after 33 years, I doubt my attitude will change much. Time for me to switch to another channel. ... This one is raising my blood pressure to much. Enjoy, ... Jack --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[nlug] Re: Linus: "Microsoft Hated is a Disease"
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Chris McQuistion wrote: > To be honest, blind Microsoft hatred But what about Microsoft hatred based on more than a decade of being screwed over by them? Can I hate them because I've been forced to use and support their products when I didn't really want to? Can I hate them for making me support their IE6 monstrosity all these years? Can I hate them because not even IE8 supports DOM Level 2 Events as standardized by W3C way back in 2000? (Holding back the jQuery coders is not cool.) Can I hate them for all the shady business practices they've been called out for by the EU? > Is Linux a better option for many, many things, over Microsoft? Sure, but > that doesn't mean that Linux users should become zealots who take sick > pleasure out of bashing Microsoft (a software vendor that they don't even > use) at every possible opportunity. So then.. as long as I am forced to make my code IE6-happy, I can freely bash them? So as long as I have to keep a WinXP VM around for IE6, and another one for IE7, and another one for IE8, can I hate them for costing me some 16GB of lost hard drive space? > This is the same issue that I get frustrated at Apple about, too. Apple's > entire marketing campaign for the past 5+ years has been centered on > pointing out the (real/imagined) problems of their chief competitor, rather > than actually talk about the advantages of their product. Mac OS X has > advantages over Microsoft. Linux has advantages over Microsoft. Why not > talk about the real advantages of your platform, rather than beat up on the > other guy? Context. My koolaid is really good, but compared to what? My shiny new i7 cpu is really fast, but compared to what? All advertising does product comparisons, not just Apple. Most all modern e-commerce sites have product comparison tools right there ready to use. Site owners are encouraging us to compare products! Oh, the horror! The ideal solution for me would be a world without any advertising. Let me know when it's ready so I can move there. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[nlug] Re: Linus: "Microsoft Hated is a Disease"
> I have to agree with Linus entirely that Microsoft Hatred really is > a disease. To be honest, blind Microsoft hatred and unproductive/ > unnecessary Microsoft-bashing are the two things that really put me > off of the Linux community at times. "blind" MS hatred?? I've seen very little of that in the FOSS community (RMS obviously excepted). In fact, I think RMS was exactly who Linus had in mind -- not those of us who have some very good reasons to hate MS. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[nlug] Re: Linus: "Microsoft Hated is a Disease"
Dude, if this place ran on slashcode I'd mod you +1 insightful. Sent from my iPhone On Jul 24, 2009, at 1:23 PM, Greg Donald wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Chris > McQuistion wrote: >> To be honest, blind Microsoft hatred > > But what about Microsoft hatred based on more than a decade of being > screwed over by them? > > Can I hate them because I've been forced to use and support their > products when I didn't really want to? > > Can I hate them for making me support their IE6 monstrosity all > these years? > > Can I hate them because not even IE8 supports DOM Level 2 Events as > standardized by W3C way back in 2000? (Holding back the jQuery coders > is not cool.) > > Can I hate them for all the shady business practices they've been > called out for by the EU? > >> Is Linux a better option for many, many things, over Microsoft? >> Sure, but >> that doesn't mean that Linux users should become zealots who take >> sick >> pleasure out of bashing Microsoft (a software vendor that they >> don't even >> use) at every possible opportunity. > > So then.. as long as I am forced to make my code IE6-happy, I can > freely bash them? > > So as long as I have to keep a WinXP VM around for IE6, and another > one for IE7, and another one for IE8, can I hate them for costing me > some 16GB of lost hard drive space? > >> This is the same issue that I get frustrated at Apple about, too. >> Apple's >> entire marketing campaign for the past 5+ years has been centered on >> pointing out the (real/imagined) problems of their chief >> competitor, rather >> than actually talk about the advantages of their product. Mac OS X >> has >> advantages over Microsoft. Linux has advantages over Microsoft. >> Why not >> talk about the real advantages of your platform, rather than beat >> up on the >> other guy? > > Context. My koolaid is really good, but compared to what? My shiny > new i7 cpu is really fast, but compared to what? > > All advertising does product comparisons, not just Apple. Most all > modern e-commerce sites have product comparison tools right there > ready to use. Site owners are encouraging us to compare products! > Oh, the horror! > > The ideal solution for me would be a world without any advertising. > Let me know when it's ready so I can move there. > > > -- > Greg Donald > http://destiney.com/ > > > --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[nlug] Re: Linus: "Microsoft Hated is a Disease"
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Ken Barber wrote: > "blind" MS hatred?? I've seen very little of that in the FOSS > community (RMS obviously excepted). In fact, I think RMS was exactly > who Linus had in mind -- not those of us who have some very good > reasons to hate MS. Linus seems very forthright to me. If he meant RMS I do believe he would have said RMS. The only thing I've ever heard or read RMS bashing is non-free software, and even then I wouldn't really call it bashing. It's more like eternally persistent logical reasoning. He's the last person you ever want to argue with, especially about the dangers of using non-free software. -- Greg Donald http://destiney.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[nlug] Re: Linus: "Microsoft Hated is a Disease"
Chris Faulkner wrote: > Very interesting read > > http://www.osnews.com/story/21887/Linus_Microsoft_Hatred_Is_a_Disease_ > The tech columnist, Walter Mossberg, at Wall Street Journal wrote an interesting article this week indicating that upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 7 was NOT clean (no surprise). There is no real upgrade, just a cold install and file re-copy. Mr. Mossberg did point out that one "intention" was to promote the purchase of new computers. (I'd post a link here except WSJ is a pay site) WSJ Online allows readers to post comments to stories. The comments posted to this article were evenly split between "convert to linux," "keep Windows XP," and "convert to Apple." Even those nominally committed to Microsoft were none too complimentary of the Redmond bunch. Pity Microsoft sales and earnings fell off so sharply this past quarter. Howard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "NLUG" group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
