Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 03:12:34PM -0500, Michael Chaney wrote: You can probably guess the gist of the e-learning courses. I'm obviously missing something here. How is this a dirty trick? John -- We must respect the other fellow's religion, but only in the same sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart. -- H. L. Mencken (1880-1956), writer, editor, and critic pgpZgIMqHBnPY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
I am guessing M$ doesn't want TN to be the 'latest state to move their office suite to Google Apps'. Legal? Yes. Predatory marketing? Yes. Do I wish we had taken them the other way (by making a big deal with the public about 'free office suite' from Google? Yes. IMHO, GatesCo have done one thing well. Marketing. I am reading The Overton Window right now, so that could be coloring my conspiracy filter ... =8}) ... Jack Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart... Colossians 3:23 On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Michael Chaney mdcha...@michaelchaney.com wrote: Anyone else seen this? https://tdlwd.tn.gov/ElevateAmerica/ In cooperation with Microsoft® Corporation, the State of Tennessee is pleased to offer vouchers for E-Learning courses and select certification exams at no cost to you. To learn more about Microsoft Elevate America please visit Microsoft Elevate America This innovative public-private program will distribute 25,875 vouchers beginning at 10:30 am on April 28, 2010 and will continue until July 26, 2010 or until all vouchers are issued. Vouchers will be issued on a first come, first served basis. Please note: vouchers thru this site are for Tennessee residents only. You can probably guess the gist of the e-learning courses. Michael -- Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr. mdcha...@michaelchaney.com http://www.michaelchaney.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Chris McQuistion cmcquist...@watkins.edu wrote: I don't understand how this is dirty, either? If they want to give something away, why can't they? Google could give stuff away (and does). Apple could give stuff away (but doesn't.) Linux could give stuff away (and does.) Where's the problem? I don't like most of Microsoft's products and I won't take them up on their offer for free training, but I don't see how offering it is a bad thing? It's just fine with me, right up to the point that they involve a governmental organization. Looking closer, it looks to just be MS Office skills, which I don't have a huge problem with given its (unfortunate) ubiquity. But it's still not proper for the state to be pimping for a corporation. Michael -- Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr. mdcha...@michaelchaney.com http://www.michaelchaney.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Michael Chaney mdcha...@michaelchaney.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Chris McQuistion cmcquist...@watkins.edu wrote: I don't understand how this is dirty, either? If they want to give something away, why can't they? Google could give stuff away (and does). Apple could give stuff away (but doesn't.) Linux could give stuff away (and does.) Where's the problem? I don't like most of Microsoft's products and I won't take them up on their offer for free training, but I don't see how offering it is a bad thing? It's just fine with me, right up to the point that they involve a governmental organization. Looking closer, it looks to just be MS Office skills, which I don't have a huge problem with given its (unfortunate) ubiquity. But it's still not proper for the state to be pimping for a corporation. Michael Historically, when MS gives something away it's to drive a competitor out of the market, not to enrich the consumer. I noticed the site seems to take quite a while to load. Made me what OS the server was running. http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=tdlwd.tn.gov Ah, nvm. -- Don Delp 618.616.2993 http://nesman.net/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
'Free' and Microsoft in the same sentence makes it an oxymoron. Even 'free' and Google (or any other company) gets me wondering. Google's model is usually 'we will put some adds on your ..(drug dejour)..' Microsoft is more like Gillette, give away the razor, sell the blades. (upgrades, continuing certification, etc) Not always, but often. Apple, IBM, DEC (now HP) have all been known for their 'educational discounts' in the past... Train the new techies/executives on your proprietary toys, they are more likely to spec them when they get in a position of power when the hair starts to grey. This is just another marketing ploy from M$. I just like to know the real reasons and where the money is flowing before I believe in them as the tooth fairy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 5:05 PM, j...@coats.org j...@coats.org wrote: 'Free' and Microsoft in the same sentence makes it an oxymoron. Even 'free' and Google (or any other company) gets me wondering. Google gave me a free phone (Droid) just for writing an Android app that became popular. Google's model is usually 'we will put some adds on your ..(drug dejour)..' My free phone didn't come with any ads. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 02, 2010 at 05:05:44PM -0500, j...@coats.org wrote: 'Free' and Microsoft in the same sentence makes it an oxymoron. You do realize, I hope, that m$ is one of the top-ranking companies in charitble contributions? This is just another marketing ploy from M$. I just like to know the real reasons and where the money is flowing before I believe in them as the tooth fairy. All this bagging on microsoft just for the sake of bagging is getting old. Frankly, I don't give a damn if they have ulterior motives; nor do I care if there are state dollars involved. People are out of work across the state, many from sales and manufacturing who may not have much experience with the various Office products; if programs like this get people back to work because they are more employable as a result of said programs... well... more power to 'em. John -- When I was the most junior Democrat in the Senate, I voted for John Paul Stevens. He was a Republican nominated by a Republican president who was going to be up for election, and we voted for him, and proudly. -- Senator Patrick J. Leahy, now chairman of the Judiciary Committee, on his respect for the associate justice who is retiring, New York Times, 10 April 2010 pgpGBLraFzbfV.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 5:10 PM, Greg Donald gdon...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 5:05 PM, j...@coats.org j...@coats.org wrote: 'Free' and Microsoft in the same sentence makes it an oxymoron. Even 'free' and Google (or any other company) gets me wondering. Google gave me a free phone (Droid) just for writing an Android app that became popular. Wow. McDonald's will give you a free paycheck if you work for them, too. Michael -- Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr. mdcha...@michaelchaney.com http://www.michaelchaney.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
All this talk about 'free' being possibly bad and having ulterior motives makes me a little confused. Isn't Linux and the Free Software movement all about 'free' (as in beer) just as much as free (as in speech)? How can the same people that applaud Linux being 'free' give Microsoft a hard time about giving stuff away for 'free'. (...and I understand that Microsoft's training/products are not free (as in speech), but they are being ragged on for being free (as in beer.)) Seems like an obvious double-standard... Chris On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 5:05 PM, j...@coats.org j...@coats.org wrote: 'Free' and Microsoft in the same sentence makes it an oxymoron. Even 'free' and Google (or any other company) gets me wondering. Google's model is usually 'we will put some adds on your ..(drug dejour)..' Microsoft is more like Gillette, give away the razor, sell the blades. (upgrades, continuing certification, etc) Not always, but often. Apple, IBM, DEC (now HP) have all been known for their 'educational discounts' in the past... Train the new techies/executives on your proprietary toys, they are more likely to spec them when they get in a position of power when the hair starts to grey. This is just another marketing ploy from M$. I just like to know the real reasons and where the money is flowing before I believe in them as the tooth fairy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.comnlug-talk%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
I am sure I do hold a double standard. But I have held this one for a long time since Bill Gates published his 'Bill Gates' Open Letter to Hobbyists' in 1976, http://www.blinkenlights.com/classiccmp/gateswhine.html But I am sure that is just my baggage. No, I didn't use M$ basic, I used machine language for my Altair, and later assembler. Eventually lots of languages using CP/M operating system (really more of a monitor rather than an Operating System) There are also the court cases showing that the 'published interface' in Microsoft products did not work and Microsoft used a different set of entry points for their 'competing products' that were not made public. The predatory tactics noted by several court cases in the EU... There are just a couple of things I can easily remember off the top of my head. And the Open Letter just started my attitude about M$. ... Yep, I am sure it is just me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Chris McQuistion cmcquist...@watkins.edu wrote: All this talk about 'free' being possibly bad and having ulterior motives makes me a little confused. Isn't Linux and the Free Software movement all about 'free' (as in beer) just as much as free (as in speech)? How can the same people that applaud Linux being 'free' give Microsoft a hard time about giving stuff away for 'free'. (...and I understand that Microsoft's training/products are not free (as in speech), but they are being ragged on for being free (as in beer.)) Seems like an obvious double-standard... Because when a corporation gives you something, there's always a reason. Microsoft's management has a fiduciary duty to the owners to maximize profit, so their free offerings always have an ulterior motive. If they don't, buy a share of stock and sue the management for misuse of funds. Free software, on the other hand, typically has no ulterior motive (an example of free software with an ulterior motive would be Sun buying StarOffice and freeing the source in an effort to harm Microsoft, although it could be argued that Sun gained good will or whatever through that gesture). Usually when people give away software, it's to form a community for everybody to benefit from. That's quite different than a corporation giving something away in order to promote their own business in some way. Michael -- Michael Darrin Chaney, Sr. mdcha...@michaelchaney.com http://www.michaelchaney.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Chris McQuistion cmcquist...@watkins.eduwrote: All this talk about 'free' being possibly bad and having ulterior motives makes me a little confused. Isn't Linux and the Free Software movement all about 'free' (as in beer) just as much as free (as in speech)? How can the same people that applaud Linux being 'free' give Microsoft a hard time about giving stuff away for 'free'. (...and I understand that Microsoft's training/products are not free (as in speech), but they are being ragged on for being free (as in beer.)) Seems like an obvious double-standard... Chris I do have problems with Microsoft (for anti-competitive behaviors over the years), but their offering free goodies is fine. Microsoft can give away whatever they like, including training. However, in this case, I have a minor problem with the state employees/servers/bandwidth/etc. being used to manage a Microsoft program. I understand the program is to educate workers on how to work better, or give someone skills needed to get an entry job, which the state has been invested in for quite a while. (In this case they are teaching how to use Microsoft products, getting Microsoft certifications, etc.) I do see some justification for the state involvement, but having the state manage who can get training from Microsoft is just a little too close to the line of impropriety for me. Paul -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
Re: [nlug] dirty tricks from Microsoft
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Michael Chaney mdcha...@michaelchaney.com wrote: Wow. McDonald's will give you a free paycheck if you work for them, too. Google Adsense for Mobile Content pays well. Whatever Google is making on the ads I show in my Android apps, it's more than fine with me :) They don't ask you to come back and re-make the apps the next day either. -- Greg Donald destiney.com | gregdonald.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en
