[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Aaron Ecay]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 08:39:30 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 02:38:38 -0500, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
> > - Greater flexibility in the construction of address lists.  For example,
> >   there are some email lists where I want replies to list mail to go only
> >   to the list, not also to the original sender.
> 
> Is there a mechanistic way to determine the correct behaviour in this
> respect? I suspect that it's exactly the kind of thing that Carl wanted
> to be included in 'notmuch' itself, so that other UIs can benefit.

I think it requires some amount of configuration, but it can be done
sensibly.  I am much more proficient with Elisp than with C, and
Emacs has prejudiced me towards solutions that allow me to have a
Turing-complete configuration language.  :)

I think a good starting point for thinking about mailing lists is what
Mutt does:
http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-4.html#using_lists

Notmuch at the CLI/C code level could aim for a comparable level of
expressiveness, and I think it would suffice for most people (including
me).

[...]
> 
> You can do both of these things today using `message-send-hook' (I
> do).

I avoided that, as it seemed to me that just before the message is sent
is too late to be doing these things (I?d like to see confirmation when
writing the message that the address/signature changes were applied
correctly).  But ?M-x apropos RET message hook RET? shows that there are
some earlier points to hook into as well.  Thanks.

> I dislike supercite, so no support from me in that direction :-)

One advantage of supercite is that it allows non-English speakers to set
up the ?On X, X wrote? line as they prefer.  Notmuch?s current approach
(a hard-coded C string) is the opposite of internationalized.  So it
would be nice to support some customization of that as well, even if we
don?t go the supercite route.

-- 
Aaron Ecay

[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Adam Wolfe Gordon]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 15:31, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
> One advantage of supercite is that it allows non-English speakers to set
> up the ?On X, X wrote? line as they prefer. ?Notmuch?s current approach
> (a hard-coded C string) is the opposite of internationalized. ?So it
> would be nice to support some customization of that as well, even if we
> don?t go the supercite route.

Note that with my patch, the "On X, X wrote" string is no longer
hardcoded in the CLI (at least when using the JSON reply format).  I
intend to make it configurable in emacs, though right now it is
hardcoded in notmuch-mua.el.

-- 
Adam Wolfe Gordon

Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Adam Wolfe Gordon]

On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 15:31, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
> One advantage of supercite is that it allows non-English speakers to set
> up the “On X, X wrote” line as they prefer.  Notmuch’s current approach
> (a hard-coded C string) is the opposite of internationalized.  So it
> would be nice to support some customization of that as well, even if we
> don’t go the supercite route.

Note that with my patch, the "On X, X wrote" string is no longer
hardcoded in the CLI (at least when using the JSON reply format).  I
intend to make it configurable in emacs, though right now it is
hardcoded in notmuch-mua.el.

-- 
Adam Wolfe Gordon
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Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Aaron Ecay]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 08:39:30 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 02:38:38 -0500, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
> > - Greater flexibility in the construction of address lists.  For example,
> >   there are some email lists where I want replies to list mail to go only
> >   to the list, not also to the original sender.
> 
> Is there a mechanistic way to determine the correct behaviour in this
> respect? I suspect that it's exactly the kind of thing that Carl wanted
> to be included in 'notmuch' itself, so that other UIs can benefit.

I think it requires some amount of configuration, but it can be done
sensibly.  I am much more proficient with Elisp than with C, and
Emacs has prejudiced me towards solutions that allow me to have a
Turing-complete configuration language.  :)

I think a good starting point for thinking about mailing lists is what
Mutt does:
http://www.mutt.org/doc/manual/manual-4.html#using_lists

Notmuch at the CLI/C code level could aim for a comparable level of
expressiveness, and I think it would suffice for most people (including
me).

[...]
> 
> You can do both of these things today using `message-send-hook' (I
> do).

I avoided that, as it seemed to me that just before the message is sent
is too late to be doing these things (I’d like to see confirmation when
writing the message that the address/signature changes were applied
correctly).  But “M-x apropos RET message hook RET” shows that there are
some earlier points to hook into as well.  Thanks.

> I dislike supercite, so no support from me in that direction :-)

One advantage of supercite is that it allows non-English speakers to set
up the “On X, X wrote” line as they prefer.  Notmuch’s current approach
(a hard-coded C string) is the opposite of internationalized.  So it
would be nice to support some customization of that as well, even if we
don’t go the supercite route.

-- 
Aaron Ecay
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Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 08:39:30 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> Is there a mechanistic way to determine the correct behaviour in this
> respect? I suspect that it's exactly the kind of thing that Carl wanted
> to be included in 'notmuch' itself, so that other UIs can benefit.

Agreed.  I think it's generally better to get the functionality we want
in the CLI if we can, so that all UIs benefit.  Emacs is still certainly
the most actively developed UI, and it's gotten quite complicated with
quite a few special features, but to the extent that we can put
new functionality into the CLI we should.

jamie.


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[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 08:39:30 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> Is there a mechanistic way to determine the correct behaviour in this
> respect? I suspect that it's exactly the kind of thing that Carl wanted
> to be included in 'notmuch' itself, so that other UIs can benefit.

Agreed.  I think it's generally better to get the functionality we want
in the CLI if we can, so that all UIs benefit.  Emacs is still certainly
the most actively developed UI, and it's gotten quite complicated with
quite a few special features, but to the extent that we can put
new functionality into the CLI we should.

jamie.
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[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[David Edmondson]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 02:38:38 -0500, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:26:59 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> > Given that we're now doing a bunch of work in emacs as part of the reply
> > setup, why not just grab the content of the original message from the
> > show buffer and quote that?
> > 
> > The last time that approach was discussed Carl was against it because it
> > moved the emacs UI away from the behaviour of the CLI, but it seems that
> > we're already heading in that direction.
> 
> I have been watching this patch series with interest, because it seemed
> that when it landed it would be a good time for me to begin work on a
> patch to allow notmuch to function like other emacs MUAs in constructing
> the reply buffer internally to emacs, rather than through notmuch.  This
> allows (at least) three things:
> - Greater flexibility in the construction of address lists.  For example,
>   there are some email lists where I want replies to list mail to go only
>   to the list, not also to the original sender.

Is there a mechanistic way to determine the correct behaviour in this
respect? I suspect that it's exactly the kind of thing that Carl wanted
to be included in 'notmuch' itself, so that other UIs can benefit.

>   Additionally, I like to
>   reply from my university address if colleagues write to my Gmail one.
>   If a lisp function is generating the replies, it can be made to run a
>   hook allowing users to insert these or other custom behaviors.
> - The same reasoning as above, applied to signatures.  (different ones
>   for different recipients)

You can do both of these things today using `message-send-hook' (I do).

> - There exists at least one emacs package (supercite) which allows
>   customization of the quoting of email replies.  This automates the
>   ?Firstname>? style quotes one sometimes sees, as well as many other
>   possiblities.  It defines a way for emacs MUAs to construct reply
>   buffers to cooperate with it, which many of the big emacs MUAs obey
>   (Gnus and Wanderlust certainly do).  This is explained in the ?hints
>   to MUA authors? section of the supercite manual (distributed with
>   Emacs).

I dislike supercite, so no support from me in that direction :-)
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[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Aaron Ecay]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:26:59 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> Given that we're now doing a bunch of work in emacs as part of the reply
> setup, why not just grab the content of the original message from the
> show buffer and quote that?
> 
> The last time that approach was discussed Carl was against it because it
> moved the emacs UI away from the behaviour of the CLI, but it seems that
> we're already heading in that direction.

I have been watching this patch series with interest, because it seemed
that when it landed it would be a good time for me to begin work on a
patch to allow notmuch to function like other emacs MUAs in constructing
the reply buffer internally to emacs, rather than through notmuch.  This
allows (at least) three things:
- Greater flexibility in the construction of address lists.  For example,
  there are some email lists where I want replies to list mail to go only
  to the list, not also to the original sender.  Additionally, I like to
  reply from my university address if colleagues write to my Gmail one.
  If a lisp function is generating the replies, it can be made to run a
  hook allowing users to insert these or other custom behaviors.
- The same reasoning as above, applied to signatures.  (different ones
  for different recipients)
- There exists at least one emacs package (supercite) which allows
  customization of the quoting of email replies.  This automates the
  ?Firstname>? style quotes one sometimes sees, as well as many other
  possiblities.  It defines a way for emacs MUAs to construct reply
  buffers to cooperate with it, which many of the big emacs MUAs obey
  (Gnus and Wanderlust certainly do).  This is explained in the ?hints
  to MUA authors? section of the supercite manual (distributed with
  Emacs).

So, a +1 from me on this idea, from a different perspective.

-- 
Aaron Ecay

Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[David Edmondson]

On Mon, 16 Jan 2012 02:38:38 -0500, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:26:59 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> > Given that we're now doing a bunch of work in emacs as part of the reply
> > setup, why not just grab the content of the original message from the
> > show buffer and quote that?
> > 
> > The last time that approach was discussed Carl was against it because it
> > moved the emacs UI away from the behaviour of the CLI, but it seems that
> > we're already heading in that direction.
> 
> I have been watching this patch series with interest, because it seemed
> that when it landed it would be a good time for me to begin work on a
> patch to allow notmuch to function like other emacs MUAs in constructing
> the reply buffer internally to emacs, rather than through notmuch.  This
> allows (at least) three things:
> - Greater flexibility in the construction of address lists.  For example,
>   there are some email lists where I want replies to list mail to go only
>   to the list, not also to the original sender.

Is there a mechanistic way to determine the correct behaviour in this
respect? I suspect that it's exactly the kind of thing that Carl wanted
to be included in 'notmuch' itself, so that other UIs can benefit.

>   Additionally, I like to
>   reply from my university address if colleagues write to my Gmail one.
>   If a lisp function is generating the replies, it can be made to run a
>   hook allowing users to insert these or other custom behaviors.
> - The same reasoning as above, applied to signatures.  (different ones
>   for different recipients)

You can do both of these things today using `message-send-hook' (I do).

> - There exists at least one emacs package (supercite) which allows
>   customization of the quoting of email replies.  This automates the
>   “Firstname>” style quotes one sometimes sees, as well as many other
>   possiblities.  It defines a way for emacs MUAs to construct reply
>   buffers to cooperate with it, which many of the big emacs MUAs obey
>   (Gnus and Wanderlust certainly do).  This is explained in the “hints
>   to MUA authors” section of the supercite manual (distributed with
>   Emacs).

I dislike supercite, so no support from me in that direction :-)


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Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Aaron Ecay]

On Sun, 15 Jan 2012 09:26:59 +, David Edmondson  wrote:
> Given that we're now doing a bunch of work in emacs as part of the reply
> setup, why not just grab the content of the original message from the
> show buffer and quote that?
> 
> The last time that approach was discussed Carl was against it because it
> moved the emacs UI away from the behaviour of the CLI, but it seems that
> we're already heading in that direction.

I have been watching this patch series with interest, because it seemed
that when it landed it would be a good time for me to begin work on a
patch to allow notmuch to function like other emacs MUAs in constructing
the reply buffer internally to emacs, rather than through notmuch.  This
allows (at least) three things:
- Greater flexibility in the construction of address lists.  For example,
  there are some email lists where I want replies to list mail to go only
  to the list, not also to the original sender.  Additionally, I like to
  reply from my university address if colleagues write to my Gmail one.
  If a lisp function is generating the replies, it can be made to run a
  hook allowing users to insert these or other custom behaviors.
- The same reasoning as above, applied to signatures.  (different ones
  for different recipients)
- There exists at least one emacs package (supercite) which allows
  customization of the quoting of email replies.  This automates the
  “Firstname>” style quotes one sometimes sees, as well as many other
  possiblities.  It defines a way for emacs MUAs to construct reply
  buffers to cooperate with it, which many of the big emacs MUAs obey
  (Gnus and Wanderlust certainly do).  This is explained in the “hints
  to MUA authors” section of the supercite manual (distributed with
  Emacs).

So, a +1 from me on this idea, from a different perspective.

-- 
Aaron Ecay
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[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[David Edmondson]

Given that we're now doing a bunch of work in emacs as part of the reply
setup, why not just grab the content of the original message from the
show buffer and quote that?

The last time that approach was discussed Carl was against it because it
moved the emacs UI away from the behaviour of the CLI, but it seems that
we're already heading in that direction.
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Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[David Edmondson]

Given that we're now doing a bunch of work in emacs as part of the reply
setup, why not just grab the content of the original message from the
show buffer and quote that?

The last time that approach was discussed Carl was against it because it
moved the emacs UI away from the behaviour of the CLI, but it seems that
we're already heading in that direction.


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Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Adam Wolfe Gordon]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Specific comments inline:

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 18:36, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
>> There should probably be some customize variables for this in emacs, to 
>> control
>> (for example) whether to quote HTML parts and whether to prefer HTML or
>> plaintext parts for quoting. Any suggestions for what should be customizable
>> would be appreciated.
>
> I think two variables should suffice: one (boolean) to control whether
> to quote standalone text/html parts, and one to control which parts of a
> multipart/alternative part to quote.  The latter should take possible
> values 'text, 'html, and 'both.  This requires the emacs reply
> functionality to distinguish between html parts that are part of a
> multipart/alternative and those which are not, which (AFAICT) the
> current code doesn’t do.

The first one I think is obvious, and easy to add.  My previous
version actually had such an option, but I didn't bother with it this
time in the interest of getting the patch out.  I'll add this in and
send a new version.

Regarding the second suggestion, you're right that the current code
doesn't differentiate between text parts that are part of a
multipart/alternative and ones that aren't.  However, it does only
include parts with inline disposition, so it shouldn't end up quoting
stuff intended as attachments.  My thinking in the current operation
was to keep most of the complexity (i.e. going through the MIME parts
to pick out the relevant ones) in the C code, so that it doesn't have
to be implemented in each client - and also so I didn't have to
implement it in emacs lisp ;-).  Do you have some ideas for a JSON
format that's more complex than the current one (to include the
information necessary for making decisions about what to quote), but
less complex than something like notmuch show --format=json (which
would require the client to descend the MIME tree completely to create
a reply)?

A third customization option I was thinking about is a way to control
the format of the first line of the body (On $date, $person wrote).  I
think it would be fairly simple to let people specify an arbitrary
format using any of the headers of the original message, so you would
set it to something like "On %date%, %from% wrote", or "Quoth %from%
(%date%)".  This might be particularly useful to users who correspond
normally in a language other than English.  Anyone have thoughts on
whether this is worth implementing?

> I haven’t tested the patch yet, but it looks very promising.  Thanks!

Thanks for the suggestions - let me know if you have a chance to try it out.

-- 
Adam Wolfe Gordon
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[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Adam Wolfe Gordon]

Thanks for the suggestions.  Specific comments inline:

On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 18:36, Aaron Ecay  wrote:
>> There should probably be some customize variables for this in emacs, to 
>> control
>> (for example) whether to quote HTML parts and whether to prefer HTML or
>> plaintext parts for quoting. Any suggestions for what should be customizable
>> would be appreciated.
>
> I think two variables should suffice: one (boolean) to control whether
> to quote standalone text/html parts, and one to control which parts of a
> multipart/alternative part to quote. ?The latter should take possible
> values 'text, 'html, and 'both. ?This requires the emacs reply
> functionality to distinguish between html parts that are part of a
> multipart/alternative and those which are not, which (AFAICT) the
> current code doesn?t do.

The first one I think is obvious, and easy to add.  My previous
version actually had such an option, but I didn't bother with it this
time in the interest of getting the patch out.  I'll add this in and
send a new version.

Regarding the second suggestion, you're right that the current code
doesn't differentiate between text parts that are part of a
multipart/alternative and ones that aren't.  However, it does only
include parts with inline disposition, so it shouldn't end up quoting
stuff intended as attachments.  My thinking in the current operation
was to keep most of the complexity (i.e. going through the MIME parts
to pick out the relevant ones) in the C code, so that it doesn't have
to be implemented in each client - and also so I didn't have to
implement it in emacs lisp ;-).  Do you have some ideas for a JSON
format that's more complex than the current one (to include the
information necessary for making decisions about what to quote), but
less complex than something like notmuch show --format=json (which
would require the client to descend the MIME tree completely to create
a reply)?

A third customization option I was thinking about is a way to control
the format of the first line of the body (On $date, $person wrote).  I
think it would be fairly simple to let people specify an arbitrary
format using any of the headers of the original message, so you would
set it to something like "On %date%, %from% wrote", or "Quoth %from%
(%date%)".  This might be particularly useful to users who correspond
normally in a language other than English.  Anyone have thoughts on
whether this is worth implementing?

> I haven?t tested the patch yet, but it looks very promising. ?Thanks!

Thanks for the suggestions - let me know if you have a chance to try it out.

-- 
Adam Wolfe Gordon

[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Aaron Ecay]

On Sun,  8 Jan 2012 00:52:38 -0700, Adam Wolfe Gordon  
wrote:

[...]

> 
> There should probably be some customize variables for this in emacs, to 
> control
> (for example) whether to quote HTML parts and whether to prefer HTML or
> plaintext parts for quoting. Any suggestions for what should be customizable
> would be appreciated.

I think two variables should suffice: one (boolean) to control whether
to quote standalone text/html parts, and one to control which parts of a
multipart/alternative part to quote.  The latter should take possible
values 'text, 'html, and 'both.  This requires the emacs reply
functionality to distinguish between html parts that are part of a
multipart/alternative and those which are not, which (AFAICT) the
current code doesn?t do.

I haven?t tested the patch yet, but it looks very promising.  Thanks!

-- 
Aaron Ecay

Re: [PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Aaron Ecay]

On Sun,  8 Jan 2012 00:52:38 -0700, Adam Wolfe Gordon  
wrote:

[...]

> 
> There should probably be some customize variables for this in emacs, to 
> control
> (for example) whether to quote HTML parts and whether to prefer HTML or
> plaintext parts for quoting. Any suggestions for what should be customizable
> would be appreciated.

I think two variables should suffice: one (boolean) to control whether
to quote standalone text/html parts, and one to control which parts of a
multipart/alternative part to quote.  The latter should take possible
values 'text, 'html, and 'both.  This requires the emacs reply
functionality to distinguish between html parts that are part of a
multipart/alternative and those which are not, which (AFAICT) the
current code doesn’t do.

I haven’t tested the patch yet, but it looks very promising.  Thanks!

-- 
Aaron Ecay
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[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Adam Wolfe Gordon]

From: Adam Wolfe Gordon 

Hi everyone,

This is a rework of my previous patch series adding support for replying to HTML
email in the emacs interface
(id:1322671241-23438-1-git-send-email-awg+notmuch at xvx.ca).

It was suggested on IRC that a more general solution would be to add a JSON
format to notmuch reply, and then have the emacs client parse the JSON to create
an appropriate reply. This patchset implements that.

The previous patches had an issue with emails that contained both HTML and
plaintext parts, where all the parts would end up quoted. This version avoids
that problem, since the emacs interface can easily check whether there are
plaintext parts and avoid quoting HTML parts if there are.

There should probably be some customize variables for this in emacs, to control
(for example) whether to quote HTML parts and whether to prefer HTML or
plaintext parts for quoting. Any suggestions for what should be customizable
would be appreciated.

I know Jani is currently working on some reply-related patches (the reply-all
vs. reply-one set). These changes probably won't merge cleanly with those
changes, so some care might be required. If his changes are pushed first, I'll
happily rebase and send a new set.

Thanks in advance for any reviews.

Adam Wolfe Gordon (4):
  test: Add broken test for the new JSON reply format.
  reply: Add a JSON reply format.
  man: Update notmuch-reply man page for JSON format.
  emacs: Use the new JSON reply format.

 emacs/notmuch-mua.el |   62 +---
 man/man1/notmuch-reply.1 |5 +
 notmuch-reply.c  |  269 +++---
 test/emacs   |1 +
 test/multipart   |7 ++
 5 files changed, 292 insertions(+), 52 deletions(-)

-- 
1.7.5.4

[PATCH 0/4] Quoting HTML-only emails in replies redux

[Adam Wolfe Gordon]

From: Adam Wolfe Gordon 

Hi everyone,

This is a rework of my previous patch series adding support for replying to HTML
email in the emacs interface
(id:1322671241-23438-1-git-send-email-awg+notm...@xvx.ca).

It was suggested on IRC that a more general solution would be to add a JSON
format to notmuch reply, and then have the emacs client parse the JSON to create
an appropriate reply. This patchset implements that.

The previous patches had an issue with emails that contained both HTML and
plaintext parts, where all the parts would end up quoted. This version avoids
that problem, since the emacs interface can easily check whether there are
plaintext parts and avoid quoting HTML parts if there are.

There should probably be some customize variables for this in emacs, to control
(for example) whether to quote HTML parts and whether to prefer HTML or
plaintext parts for quoting. Any suggestions for what should be customizable
would be appreciated.

I know Jani is currently working on some reply-related patches (the reply-all
vs. reply-one set). These changes probably won't merge cleanly with those
changes, so some care might be required. If his changes are pushed first, I'll
happily rebase and send a new set.

Thanks in advance for any reviews.

Adam Wolfe Gordon (4):
  test: Add broken test for the new JSON reply format.
  reply: Add a JSON reply format.
  man: Update notmuch-reply man page for JSON format.
  emacs: Use the new JSON reply format.

 emacs/notmuch-mua.el |   62 +---
 man/man1/notmuch-reply.1 |5 +
 notmuch-reply.c  |  269 +++---
 test/emacs   |1 +
 test/multipart   |7 ++
 5 files changed, 292 insertions(+), 52 deletions(-)

-- 
1.7.5.4

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